7.0 FATE changes you want?

Imo FATEs are horrifically underutilized. They are relatively fun, but there are clear improvements that could be made in Dawntrail. So what would you like to see changed about fates in dawntrail? Personally I’d love to see them reward tomestones if you do a fate on a level capped job and a gearset that thematically fits for each zone that you can get for bicolor gemstones/FATE level. I also think each zone should have a super fate like Ixion or Chi.

Relatively fun ?

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Imo FATEs are horrifically underutilized. They are relatively fun, but there are clear improvements that could be made in Dawntrail. So what would you like to see changed about fates in dawntrail? Personally I’d love to see them reward tomestones if you do a fate on a level capped job and a gearset that thematically fits for each zone that you can get for bicolor gemstones/FATE level. I also think each zone should have a super fate like Ixion or Chi.

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Honestly the biggest thing to me would be to make them more of an active threat. Let us defend the local areas and civilization.

There could also be some gear that scales with your level that can be bought through the gemstone exchange that grants bonus exp while doing them or bonus damage to specifically fate mobs up to that expansion's level cap

Raise the gemstone count per Fate, and add gemstones to older Fates if you’re doing them as a 90+ character. No more lore reasons to not have all Fates drop gemstones, since the EW areas used the same currency as the ShB.

The rewards are ok enough I guess, but I’m not grinding 25 Fates for an orchestrion roll, and even when I have classes to level, it still takes forever to get enough to buy anything.

Expand the bicolor system to include all FATES across all expansions. Expand the bicolor stores to have some glam stuff? Maybe able to use bicolors to purchase the upgrade materials for tomestone gear, like you can with the nuts from the hunts?

- The rarer FATEs, e.g., Formidable to spawn much more regularly.

- Gemstones should be removed and replaced with a lockbox system. With a larger pool of rewards, and rewards that are continually added to.

- Reward a small number of tomestones.

- The core focus being on boss-related ones, rather than clump and burn mobs.

I think FATEs are underutilized, and I think it's in dire need of an update (I would prefer something else, but far too ambitious).

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

Imo FATEs are horrifically underutilized.

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Depends. They are underutilized if you, yourself, do not use them...

1. FC seal grinds.
2. Relic grinds often ask you to do them.
3. Leveling.
4. Involved in some S rank spawn conditions.
5. Certain ones in ARR are used for beast tribes, hunt bills or relics.
6. Each area has an achievement boss fate that is intended for 8 people (except Endwalker).
7. Each expansion has two superboss FATEs like Chi and Daivadipa intended for maybe 24+ people that drop an item to exchange for rewards.
8. Starting with Shadowbringers, each area has a Shared FATE rank so you can farm ground mount speed increases, orchestrons, minions, TT cards, materia, materials, and certificates that you exchange for a mount and some wings.

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So what would you like to see changed about fates in dawntrail?

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The return of achievement FATEs, I guess. Can't think of much else.

Some people want them to use the sort of mechanics they saw in Bozja, and actually there is one that does in Ultima Thule with an orb mechanic and another with a rotate mechanic, so these are a start from just simple conal AoEs.

I think if they went as far as making Critical Engagements, that the problem with this is those are designed more like dungeon bosses where they actually think of some fancy mechanics rather than just a simple conal, circle or target AoE, and they might see that as needing to take resources from something else (such as one of the expert dungeons we get at release).

Proper active FATE scaling, rather than being scaled to the amount of players who completed it the previous time.

Improvements to the FATEs themselves, primarily, such as...

• scaling from players present, rather than from the last FATE completed;
  
  
• tighter and more conditional scaling checks (e.g., additional healers joining combat = more/stronger heal checks added; more tanks joining combat = more tank checks added);
  
  
• allowing for additional tanks to be actually useful (such as by letting Provoke work, even if in some differently limited way, so that additional tanks aren't --at best-- merely on-death replacements for the first);
  
  
• better ways to hide correction to said scaling (as more players, at given item levels, reach the fight or the output-done-per-second (OTPS) divided by Expected-OTPS, or specific parts thereof, passes or falls below certain thresholds, etc.), such as bosses having self-sustain or changing units (to a new health bar) upon the destruction of some outer layer, or additional adds being summoned, etc.;
  
  
• more varied music, be that via intensity/phase and/or per zone the FATE is in, or whatever else; and
  
  
• more interesting encounters in themselves, in terms of mechanics and integration of objectives vs. the killing itself.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Honestly the biggest thing to me would be to make them more of an active threat. Let us defend the local areas and civilization.

There could also be some gear that scales with your level that can be bought through the gemstone exchange that grants bonus exp while doing them or bonus damage to specifically fate mobs up to that expansion's level cap

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Not sure what you want them to do as a threat. If you make it so that they can destroy settlements or do any environmental damage then it's just going to be annoying.

Rift had a mechanic much like Fates here in which you have minor, mid-tier, and large scale.

What happens is an area will have a Rift open and you and your group would work together to put it down. Some were soloable and others required help or be geared.

Then you got the large scale that is zone wide in which everyone in the zone spreads out to take on multiple threats at the same time. It usually ends with a world boss popping up and all units converge to take out the singular threat.

Edit: forgot to mention one can start small and just explode into an extreme version of a non-invasion level Rift if just many people are active in it. They also aren't level dependent so you can do one in the baby starting area as a max level and it still be a challenge cause everything is attuned to the individual.

I'm not sure anything could be done with Fates to get me to like them. I haven't liked them since ARR and I doubt that would ever change.

This might be dumb but honestly, more than anything. I just want new FATE music. I'm tired of going into the new expansions and still listening to the same FATE themes in every FATE.

quadrupling the xp and gil rewards would be a start.

I would love another Dataqi Chronicles style FATE chain. We used to get huge groups together to do most of the chain, with people sitting at the NPC camps between the FATEs to chat.

The Shadowbringers FATE chains did not pull off the same experience. They would "disappear" halfway through then pick up again in different locations. There were no pauses between the FATE for players to talk to the NPCs to get additional lore information. While the NPCs did have some dialog to give more lore, you had to be staring at the NPC reading the speech bubble at the right moment or miss out. Worst of all, the end bosses were normal NM fate level instead of a good midpoint between Normal NM FATE and the major boss NM FATEs. That means not being able to send out relays once you're at the next to the last FATE to allow other players to join in for the last one, it's usually done by the time they can arrive because they die so fast.

And of course we didn't get anything at all in Endwalker other than Chi and Daivadipa. The 2 FATEs that lead into both of those just didn't create the same experience as the 13 part Dataqi chain.

It would be nice to see a return to the Dataqi style.

I'd love to have boss fates like Bozja in the open world. Actual mechanics. Endless chaos. Perfection. Bozja wasn't everyone's cup of tea. I get that. However, I personally think that they finally made Fates in those instances what they should have been all along. They would still have to scale, obviously.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Not sure what you want them to do as a threat. If you make it so that they can destroy settlements or do any environmental damage then it's just going to be annoying.

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Nah, nothing like that. I don't think that would be possible in ffxiv anyway.

I've mentioned Rift a lot of times as of late for open world or exploration zone encounters to the point some people are probably getting sick of reading it, but that MMO seriously did it best.

What they could do is instead of only including chain fates for successful fate completions, if certain fates spawn and that fate is failed, then another one could spawn at a settlement and they could simply just put in objects that spawn exclusively during the fate. Whether that be defending supplies, collecting objects, or both simultaneously. The fate could send out forces that spawn it as well, if not killed before they reach the settlement and these mobs would be identifiable on the map with a marker to signify it. There's plenty of ideas on the table to be had.

They could even add branching paths for large scale encounters in the overworld.

Now let's say that the initial fate is completed, it could activate a fate chain that allows for a special fate of said zone, ideally around the same difficulty as bozja and zadnor's Critical Engagements.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I'd love to have boss fates like Bozja in the open world. Actual mechanics. Endless chaos. Perfection. Bozja wasn't everyone's cup of tea. I get that. However, I personally think that they finally made Fates in those instances what they should have been all along. They would still have to scale, obviously.

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Pretty much this, the system is already made. However the rewards need to be worth working up to and completing those boss fates on a regular basis and not just a one and done reward that leads to dead content in a month or even after an expansion.

That is pretty hard though since the ongoing reward structure of the game is pretty weak. Gil, Materia, Tomes, etc are relatively easy to get. Stuff like Bicolored Gemstones gave Fates a slight boost for a short while then died again.

Three things:

1- Different Music, for the love of Hydaelyn
2- More stuff like The Dataqi Chronicles. I still just go do that sometimes cause it's just fun to follow the tribe's story and help them as they go. The reward at the end, though not very rare or anything is still pretty neat.
3- Have FATEs spawn Critical Engagements>Duels like Bozja

I would like to have a FATE logbook for each area, to record that you've seen all the possible FATEs there.

Also perhaps some indication of pre-FATE scenarios going on. Maybe mark the characters on the map?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I would like to have a FATE logbook for each area, to record that you've seen all the possible FATEs there.

Also perhaps some indication of pre-FATE scenarios going on. Maybe mark the characters on the map?

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I really like that idea. Even if it was hidden info and you just had like, a missing section and had to discover the fate. Like, you had 8 out of 10 fates discovered. Maybe have NPCs in the area, or the local aetherite, that you can talk to, to get clues about spawn conditions or something? I know, after the initial week (or on release, with out people datamine), all that detail will probably be out there anyway. But still.

I also want Exp boni, Forlorns and gems added to all zones. I think FATES need a decent bump in Exp. Nothing compares to dungeons anymore and you can solo all the leveling dungeons without a DF queue. FATES and quests need better Exp rewards to keep them relevant. FATES need better Bicolor gem rewards. The Forlorn needs a nerf.

I feel like FATES was a part of the game where Endwalker was very regressive after it feeling like a big part of Shadowbringers. So many cool sequence FATE in Shadowbringers. I like seeing the villagers in Kholusia fighting off goblins. Tojil was great. The Daens and Formidable were fun all memorable FATES. The first time I saw Tojil marching through Rak'tika was a WTF moment. The quick progression of those FATES made grinding through the Shared FATES much quicker and more fun. And then nothing of the sort in Endwalker. Just the two boring world bosses.

I'd really like to see more of that. More imagination. More depth in the lore. More life.

Maybe it's time to add something like Besieged from FFXI where the safe spaces aren't safe. Maybe the Mamool Ja raid the towns/villages in Tural and you lose access to the Aetherytes/Bells/Markets if they're not defended.

Make them more dynamic on top of actually challenging (or more accurately make it so all of them can't be mindlessly solo'd by anyone). In GW2, some of its world quests (which are pretty much just FATE copies) can actually effect the zone, the most notable ones probably being the events in Caledon Forest, where one can prevent you from using Morgan's Spiral, or how enemy camps can occupy certain waypoints therefore preventing you from teleporting there so you have to take it back. It's not an ideal way to handle it, especially when having a waypoint being suddenly unavailable is inconvenient more than anything, but they do make the zones in GW2 feel more dynamic and alive. What if certain shortcuts on a map could be occupied by enemy forces, that could be temporarily cleared by beating its FATE? What if there was a FATE that suddenly made enemy beast tribe areas deadlier, so you had to storm it with a Grand Company to prevent a summoning? Again, they're not perfect suggestions, but I feel like tiny things like these would come a long way in making the areas in the game actually feel lived in.

XIV zones always feel so empty, because they're just set pieces for stories. I feel like the Ruby Sea (as much as I love Stormblood) is one of the more egregious examples of wasted space because it has an entire underwater section full of literally nothing but one minor settlement.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Make them more dynamic on top of actually challenging (or more accurately make it so all of them can't be mindlessly solo'd by anyone). In GW2, some of its world quests (which are pretty much just FATE copies) can actually effect the zone.

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Yeah, GW2 is basically the king of open world PvE content like this. Calling its dynamic events "FATE copies" feels a little insulting considering how above and beyond GW2 is compared to FFXIV in this regard, if anything FFXIV FATEs feel like a pale "we have dynamic events at home" imitation. GW2 did come out before ARR, after all. Did FFXIV 1.0 have FATEs? I honestly don't know.

But anyway, I completely agree, it would be amazing if we could get the kinds of open world events like GW2 has. Especially the big "map meta" style ones that run in a cycle and require lots of people coordinating and communicating, and when you succeed it unlocks a special area with a bunch of treasure and stuff. Sadly, FFXIV doesn't really design their maps with these sorts of goals in mind. There's no verticality with different "planes" to be on. The maps aren't even large enough to accommodate the scale of such events without possibly getting in the way of MSQ objectives, and I highly doubt the engine can handle it. Plus, I don't know what the rewards for completing the event would look like, the "loot economy" is way different in GW2.

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having a waypoint being suddenly unavailable is inconvenient more than anything, but they do make the zones in GW2 feel more dynamic and alive.

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Yeah, but in GW2 the maps have so many waypoints, it's really not that big a deal when one gets contested. It became even less of an issue after mounts were introduced and we can zip around the map at lightning speed.

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XIV zones always feel so empty, because they're just set pieces for stories. I feel like the Ruby Sea (as much as I love Stormblood) is one of the more egregious examples of wasted space because it has an entire underwater section full of literally nothing but one minor settlement.

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That's the thing about being underwater, there's no combat there. So unless you're talking to a quest NPC or spearfishing, there is literally nothing to do. It's just a big void of nothingness. In order to let us fight or do any sort of action they have to place us in a domed playpen that is basically "on dry land."

More boss fates like in Eureka and Bozja.

More varied fates too. A lot of them are "collect X", "defend Y from Z" "kill A amounts of B". Seasonal Fates have use of an action for it, why not have something similar? Some non-combat Fates to break them up would be nice if done well.

Fate chains are a nice idea, but I feel like they are too few and some times too long. Smaller chains of 2 Fates would be nice.

And coming off of that, let Failed Fates chain into something else and/or affect the area in some way. GW2 has some like this where a group will take over a settlement until you take it back. Something similar would be nice.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

And coming off of that, let Failed Fates chain into something else and/or affect the area in some way. GW2 has some like this where a group will take over a settlement until you take it back. Something similar would be nice.

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ARR has this with the Redbelly Hive and Highbridge FATE chains. All it means in the long run is that you're lucky to ever see those locations in their "FATE was successful" state.

Everytime i do fates, i get drained quick and bored..because it's slow and tedious...
Also there is nobody around you..It's an empty big world with zero players in it-

i think fates that isn't current content should let you do them unsynced..
Just so you can rush through them..

To me a few things would help:
- More special fates (like chi, ixion, coeurl, odin) that involve a weather change (the weather is to announce its existance and make it more likely to get players to join in before it expires).
- More fates that involve a fate chain in them, with a special fate as reward. The chains motivate people to complete them
- More S ranks that have fate requirements (we only have 1 atm). Objectives can be: complete 20 in a row without failures, complete each diffirent fate at least once, Force completion of 2 fates within a certain timespan (for example 2 fates must be completed with less than 20s between them). While most people wont care for the S rank fates. It can still cause interaction from other players in the zone. And this surely is a niche on that.
- Weekly challenge rewards now awarding gemstones for fate completions (gil is meaningless)
- A new gem resource that can only be obtained from extra difficult fates (fates that you cannot solo). And then when there are more of these, it promotes grouping up, where other fates become a waiting activity for the next boss to spawn. Or its part of a standalone chain

XP is not an issue here. As when fate farming, the xp adds up fast enough.

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Originally Posted by Zeastria

i think fates that isn't current content should let you do them unsynced..
Just so you can rush through them..

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The problem with that idea is that people who are grinding on FATES for exp can be left without enough credit to get their share. It's like when Blue Mages show up to FATES, doing Missile and Tail Spin. They instantly kill FATE bosses and everyone else gets screwed. It's tantamount to griefing if you ask me.

By the way.. don't bring BLUs to FATEs. Just don't do it.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

XP is not an issue here. As when fate farming, the xp adds up fast enough.

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It really doesn't. The rough ratio of dungeon exp to fate exp is 10:1 for equal levels, assuming full completion and gold credit. You can breeze through a Duty Support dungeon in 20 minutes. (15 with a DF party but the queue makes that irrelevant, really, unless it's a roulette) You're not doing 10 fates in 20 minutes and you'd have to bust your ass to even get close.

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Originally Posted by Korbei

The problem with that idea is that people who are grinding on FATES for exp can be left without enough credit to get their share. It's like when Blue Mages show up to FATES, doing Missile and Tail Spin. They instantly kill FATE bosses and everyone else gets screwed. It's tantamount to griefing if you ask me.

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Trying to get memory crystals from Heavensward FATEs turned into an exercise in frustration once a BLU party turned up in the same zone. I usually gave up and left.

this is very easy. fates instead now come in 3-4 parts. with the final rewrd in part 4, and 1,2,3 all need players to complete before 4 spawns. just.. without week long cooldowns...

You could easily make Fates popular with a handful of changes.
-Retroactively make all Fates give Bicolor Gemstones
-Gemstones can now be traded for the same items as the Hunt currencies
-Chaining Fates within a certain timeframe will reward more EXP, Gil and Gems
-Maybe have a rotating daily system where one region gets bonuses

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Originally Posted by Korbei

It really doesn't.

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If you farm fates for xp only it doesnt. But if xp is the target, i wouldnt rely on fates alone. Fates are however decent enough xp during the queue.

If fates would give as much xp as dungeons, some people might barely even care doing those, and now purely rely on fates. Which is also something you dont want. Which means that at the moment fates are only good for gemstones, and the rewards you can buy with those. And let those rewards be very underwhelming.

Maybe trying one zone where fates change how the zone is running. Different NPCs and different mobs depending on where the fate chain is at.Dailies that are active if Fates have been completed, enemies if Fates haven't been. If part of the zone gets liberated crafter Fate to repair town and if town was safe crafter fate that increases the number of NPCs with items or daily quests. Keep the dailies separate from the tribal ones. Don't gate the hell out of the zone but have clear progression areas. So all players in the new expansion can enjoy that one zone.



When they originally talked about Fates they hinted at a more dynamic involved system. It never really materialized. A dynamic Fate zone with proper scaling rewards through out the expansion I think would be enjoyable.

I honestly wouldn't mind if Fates were also complemented by something similar to Bozja's CEs, also with more to it, like rare drops, so there's actual incentive.