Which is now the easiest Tank, WAR or PLD?

As it says in the title. I'm kind of curious. (EDIT: I should also preface this that I don't consider "easiest" to be negative, as many people ask the question when trying to find a recommendation for picking a role up for the first time.)

For filler, PLD has a 1-2-3-4-4-4 where a -5 can be used anywhere between a given 3 and the next 3 (anytime from right after Royal Authority, through the Atonements, Fast Blade, all the way to after the following Riot Blade). WAR, by contrast, has a 1-2-3 that repeats, with a -4 that has a "flexible" 30 sec timer (e.g. you can refresh it anywhere from 30 to ~1 sec remaining on the prior one), and a gauge with a "don't overcap" -5 in Fell Cleave, as well as not overcapping on Infuriate.

PLD has two 30 sec oGCDs and a 2 charge gap closer, WAR has one 30 sec oGCD (an AOE and single-target version but they share a CD) and 3 charges of gap closer; both gap closers regenerate one charge per 30 sec.

In terms of burst, both are on a rigid 1 min timer, with PLD's opening with Fight or Flight and Requiescat, and containing an independent GCD (Goring Blade) and 4 presses of your Confetior button, as well as attempting to fit in both 30 sec oGCDs and both charges of gap closer, and a Holy Might empowered Holy Spirit. WAR's opens with Inner Release and has one independent GCD (Primal Rend), and 5x total Fell Cleaves between the 3 free from IR and 2 more from a full gauge...and two more from Infuriate, as well as fitting in its attack oGCD Upheaval, the Infuriates, and gap closer...but with the caveat that it ideally wants 3 of those for the 2 min burst, so odd minutes will only use 1 so the WAR can save three before the 2 min burst.

In terms of damage rotation, these seem...comparable...to me. WAR's has a little more thinking in terms of 1 min vs 2 min burst that PLD's does not, as well as gauge management, but PLD's base filler rotation has slightly more going on, though without having to track an upkeep buff of any kind. Their bursts also seem roughly comparable, with WAR's again involving a bit more in terms of gauge and CD management vs PLD's involving more different buttons.

Their defensive kits are largely comparable in terms of what they have, with PLD's being EVER so slightly more cumbersome (Passage having to be aimed, Shelltron/Intervene having a gauge cost), but still pretty straightforward.

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WAR has long been considered the easiest Tank, but I'm curious if that still seems true?

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EDIT2: I suppose standard "it's ultimately subjective" applies. More just wondering various people's thoughts on it. Personally, I find PLD easier now, but I'm sure not everyone does.

I think this at least partially depends on the context in which we're talking about easiest, and what in particular easiest means.

For example, at level 90, I think DRK has the least going on. Not many buttons to press, not many mechanics to track, so there's less to learn and manage. And from that perspective, I think it's probably the easiest tank to play.

But I certainly wouldn't say it's the easiest tank to learn from the beginning, as it isn't until much later in the game that DRK gets their non-lengthy-cooldown mitigation skills, which at least in my opinion are an important aspect of playing a tank, one that shouldn't be delayed until the end of Stormblood. So if easy includes that, DRK wouldn't get my vote. I'd probably vote for WAR in this scenario, as you can play it from the very beginning and it's less fiddly than PLD.

There's also the question of how easy a tank is to optimize in hardcore content, and frankly I have no idea if that correlates to how easy they are to pick up for a new player; it could be like Othello, where what's easiest to learn is the most challenging to master.

Its WAR by a mile, its even joked about in the community how low the level of execution is for WAR, and I think it really just comes down to how much the job gets for free compared to the others.

Its a very forgiving job, no other tank has a tool as powerful as Equilibrium at undoing self mistakes, and if that's not enough Bloodwhetting is literally free and can do that for you as well, and if thats not enough then you have a pretty sizable heal for you and your whole party with Shake it off, plus a shield, plus a regen, and if THATS not enough its invuln is on the shortest cooldown thus making it the strongest one.

In terms of keeping damage up, all you really have to do with WAR is keep your Fell Cleave and Fell Cleave accessories within the burst window and you'll do alright.
You can pile your gap closers if you want but its such a small amount of damage that you're only doing this if you really want to minmax.

I don't think any of the tanks are particularly hard, but the general consensus seems to be:
GNB > DRK > PLD >>> WAR

In my personal experience it goes from difficult to easiest
Gnb>Drk/Pld>War

I don't find myself lining up as many resources for the 2 minute window as War, mitigation is the easiest and a lot of it is reactive as War.
Mitigating as Drk involves weaving it into a burst often times, and it's proactive. I need to memorise what does physical or magical damage so i can mitigate accordingly, same with Gnb to a lesser extent. Whereas with the other tanks i don't really have to plan my mitigations as much. Drk also is the only tank that gets punished for others stacking mitigation on top of yours through a damage loss.
I ranked Pld and Drk as equal, i guess partly because of it having the hardest damage rotation pre rework and i haven't played it enough post rework to make a fair judgement.
Gnb arguably has the most rigid, prone to drifting kit in the game. And you still need to weave in your mits very often.

I have been playing PLD a lot recently and it's really not too bad to play. That being said I still think warrior is the easiest but that may just be years of playing it and it all just being muscle memory.

I dont rly tank much..But i found DRK the easier one to play/learn.
( easier than WAR and PLD) x.x

If we're talking about dummy rotation then DrK is about as easy as WAR, you just need to delay your 1-minute Blood Weapon once and everything lines up automatically afterwards. But Dark Knight gets some difficulty simply from the amount of damage oGCDs it needs to fit into burst windows, Warrior has a whopping 3 of them which not only makes your burst windows incredibly simple but at the same time gives you a lot of weave slots for defensives, making that part simple as well.

It's slightly harder to say which one is easier between Paladin and Warrior however. Paladin only has 1 more oGCD per burst window and everything automatically lines up every 60 seconds so you don't even have to think about slightly drifting cooldowns like Infuriate.

Dark knight is easier then both.

Warrior is easier though... all tanks are really easy anyway.

WAR is easier then PLD imho because PLD's weird magic phase

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Originally Posted by BRVV

WAR is easier then PLD imho because PLD's weird magic phase

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Weird magic phase? You basically just press Magic Fell Cleave 4 times and then Holy Spirit, Atonement, or Royal Authority.

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Originally Posted by Emitans

Weird magic phase? You basically just press Magic Fell Cleave 4 times and then Holy Spirit, Atonement, or Royal Authority.

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Yep and WAR is so easy it doesn't even have something like that

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Yep and WAR is so easy it doesn't even have something like that

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I mean, I agree that WAR is the easier tank, I just don't get what's "weird" about the magic phase. It's pretty straight forward.

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Originally Posted by Emitans

I mean, I agree that WAR is the easier tank, I just don't get what's "weird" about the magic phase. It's pretty straight forward.

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Sry i just didnt think of a descriptive name. Should maybe just said "magic phase"

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Sry i just didnt think of a descriptive name. Should maybe just said "magic phase"

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Oh, ok. That makes more sense to me now.

The "magic phase" is really just Warrior's "spam Fell Cleave" phase (which was really just stolen from Paladin's original "spam Holy Spirit" phase in 4.2) but since they're technically different GCDs it looks slightly less stagnant than Warrior does.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

The "magic phase" is really just Warrior's "spam Fell Cleave" phase (which was really just stolen from Paladin's original "spam Holy Spirit" phase in 4.2) but since they're technically different GCDs it looks slightly less stagnant than Warrior does.

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True and Pld has spells that have a casttime.

It's a bit hard for me to put it in a list here..but I suppose I would rank it from hardest to easiest like this

GNB>>DRK>PLD>WAR

WAR is by far the most forgiving, the amount of healing it dishes out is simply way too much to make anything feel like a threat unless they make something hit you for almost your entire health bar.

PLD is the most..balanced? I'd say. It's self-healing isn't as potent. It's offensive kit needs more than the same exact 1 minute rotation, it gets more boring than even Warrior sometimes, at least it has 2 skills you use at 30s intervals I suppose.

For DRK, the literal only thing making it remotely harder than WAR is because it's opener and 2-minute windows are packed tighter than a can of sardines. It's also the only tank where you have slight skill expression with your defensives.

GNB is the hardest because it actually requires some brain power to play properly both offensively and defensively more often than the other tanks, which it should. Now if only the other tanks could follow that example.

WAR is by far the easiest job.
Keep Storm's eye up, use upheaval and inner release on cooldown.

In comparison, PLD needs to look for more cooldowns and its burst window can include 2 Holy Spirit under the Divine Might buff.
WAR burst window will always be the same, Upheaval, Inner release, try to keep a few onslaught for raid buff window and that's it.

Another point that makes WAR extremely easy is that it can be hardly punished. You may lose a bit of gauge due to downtime or KO but the bigger part of your rotation is just cooldowns.
Mitigation wise, PLD needs to play with Passage of arms and Divine Veil. War just needs to press Shake it off.

Sadly WAR is even easier now than PLD, and I miss old PLD

War by far really far I played all tank all jobs and for tanks War take the first place at being easy just the over abusing healing skill make War auto tank with no thinking needed

PLD is okay its well balanced and is Versatile without being too broken

GNB is just straight foward if you play DPS before you won't get lost the healing on GNB is mid too so its kind of interesting the really really bad aspect of GNB its Superbolide its not bad but you know the classic Benediction and just after superbolide back to 1 it happens it's not a big deal but it happens

DRK has health management, MP management , blood management, salted earth that you can no longer ground target like every other bubbles in the game (Plz SE give us back Salted Earth with ground targeting) you have to know what you use TBN on and not and some mechanics can completely be canceled by a well placed TBN

WAR and its not even close. You have like 2 OGCDs
PLD is next since it was streamlined but nowhere as easy as WAR.
GNB and DRK with most OGCDs would be the most difficult. DRK with TBN/mana resource management and optimization.

people call it the unga bunga job because idiots can play it.

I have no idea how people can say DRK or PLD are easier then WAR.

I have constantly over spent mana and not had the ability to TBN myself.

Name anything you can do on WAR that would be as consequential as that.

That being Said GNB >>> DRK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PLD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WAR

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Originally Posted by Valknut

I have no idea how people can say DRK or PLD are easier then WAR.

I have constantly over spent mana and not had the ability to TBN myself.

Name anything you can do on WAR that would be as consequential as that.

That being Said GNB >>> DRK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PLD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WAR

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DRK is busy not hard (at least to me), I genuinely find it easier then warrior but I can't stand how either plays currently so I stick to Paladin and Gunbreaker for the most part, but both aren't hard

People find different things difficult usually, I'd say old Paladin was the hardest tank class by far but now it's pretty simple. Honestly at this discussion of which tank is harder to me is like really redundant because they're all very easy.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

DRK is busy not hard (at least to me), I genuinely find it easier then warrior but I can't stand how either plays currently so I stick to Paladin and Gunbreaker for the most part, but both aren't hard

People find different things difficult usually, I'd say old Paladin was the hardest tank class by far but now it's pretty simple. Honestly at this discussion of which tank is harder to me is like really redundant because they're all very easy.

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Pretty much this. Once you know the opener and your general rotation, tanks generally aren’t difficult but everyone is different. Some people can’t stand rng progs at all, some live for that very same thing. Personally GNB is tricky for me because of the super long burst window it has, and any misalignment can seriously hurt them, but someone else might find DRK harder than GNB because of MP management or something.

Warrior is a friendlier tank to play with, Paladin has a lot of support and ability to attack at ranged, Dark Knight has strong shields and damage, Gunbreaker is a combo fiend with explosions. Just a matter of which style personally clicks with you.

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Originally Posted by Valknut

I have no idea how people can say DRK or PLD are easier then WAR.

I have constantly over spent mana and not had the ability to TBN myself.

Name anything you can do on WAR that would be as consequential as that.

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Simple, using Bloodwhetting or, more likely, Nascent Flash at the wrong time because you don't want to sit on a support tool and not having it up for the next buster. Really no different than not knowing when to save MP for TBN and applies to pretty much all tank mitigation that also serves as a support tool.

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Originally Posted by Derio

GNB and DRK with most OGCDs would be the most difficult. DRK with TBN/mana resource management and optimization.

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If you're overcapping on MP at any point on DrK you're doing something wrong and if you don't have enough MP for a TBN at some point you know to skip an EoS next time. Assuming no downtime and a properly executed opener you will always automatically go into either your odd or even minute burst before your MP can ever reach the cap.

You're roughly anywhere between 7K and 8K MP (assuming no additional TBN usage during your 45 seconds of 1-2-3 spam). Your natural MP regen in combat is roughly 200 MP every 3 seconds, so even if you entered downtime right before your burst and the boss disappeared it would have to last at least 30 seconds to make you cap out on MP. Not many fights have downtime that long where you literally can't attack anything and even if it happens and you overcap on MP that has nothing to do with DrK being complicated.

The only thing potentially making Dark Knight harder to play than Warrior is the physical execution of it's burst, because it's an oGCD spam fest.

DRK is the easiest

But to answer the thread title, I would say WAR is probably the easiest among those 2

GNB isn't hard either, but harder than the other 3

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Simple, using Bloodwhetting or, more likely, Nascent Flash at the wrong time because you don't want to sit on a support tool and not having it up for the next buster. Really no different than not knowing when to save MP for TBN and applies to pretty much all tank mitigation that also serves as a support tool.
The only thing potentially making Dark Knight harder to play than Warrior is the physical execution of it's burst, because it's an oGCD spam fest.

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Nah there is one thing thats different that people dont account for.

DRK needs to memorize fights down to the auto attack to maximize TBN usage. Knowing where you can and cant break depending on gear, ilv, and all that junk. Otherwise you're going to be throwing away ~510 potency every time you mess up.
You also need to do this because DRK doesn't get Do-over buttons like WAR does, maximizing TBN is how you make DRK tanky and damage you take is practically permanent unless a healer is on you. On top of that you want to hover around max MP before the next burst window without overcapping to maximize the damage you do within it, hence why we're memorizing down to the auto attack.

Its not terribly hard, but its harder than the fire-and-forget nature of Bloodwhetting, which at most you can say "could be used more optimally somewhere else". Its never a detriment to you.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Nah there is one thing thats different that people dont account for.

DRK needs to memorize fights down to the auto attack to maximize TBN usage. Knowing where you can and cant break depending on gear, ilv, and all that junk. Otherwise you're going to be throwing away ~510 potency every time you mess up.
You also need to do this because DRK doesn't get Do-over buttons like WAR does, maximizing TBN is how you make DRK tanky and damage you take is practically permanent unless a healer is on you. On top of that you want to hover around max MP before the next burst window without overcapping to maximize the damage you do within it, hence why we're memorizing down to the auto attack.

Its not terribly hard, but its harder than the fire-and-forget nature of Bloodwhetting, which at most you can say "could be used more optimally somewhere else". Its never a detriment to you.

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I'm not tracking external mits just to make sure it's safe to use my short cd mit as any of the other tanks because they can use theirs off cooldown.
I'm not lining up MP for the big burst, looking for a way to pop TBN so i can have 5 edges during the burst as any of the other tanks.
I don't have to memorise what tank busters are magic and physical as any of the other tanks. I generally find that i don't have to plan mits at all as other tanks.
I don't have to weave 14 ogcd's+mits during tankbusters as any of the other tanks.

All of the tanks are easy, but i think a lot of people never even really looked into optimizing Dark knight.
I just recently got Warrior to level cap and i already know the optimal damage rotation intuitively, there's no thought involved with any of it's mits because it's mostly reactive healing and there's very little room for optimisation.
Anyone saying anything other than Warrior is very disingenuous or just didn't play all of the tanks.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

I'm not tracking external mits just to make sure it's safe to use my short cd mit as any of the other tanks because they can use theirs off cooldown.
I'm not lining up MP for the big burst, looking for a way to pop TBN so i can have 5 edges during the burst as any of the other tanks.
I don't have to memorise what tank busters are magic and physical as any of the other tanks. I generally find that i don't have to plan mits at all as other tanks.
I don't have to weave 14 ogcd's+mits during tankbusters as any of the other tanks.

All of the tanks are easy, but i think a lot of people never even really looked into optimizing Dark knight.
I just recently got Warrior to level cap and i already know the optimal damage rotation intuitively, there's no thought involved with any of it's mits because it's mostly reactive healing and there's very little room for optimisation.
Anyone saying anything other than Warrior is very disingenuous or just didn't play all of the tanks.

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I dont think everyone is optimising every little semblance of dmg out of dark knight, sure it might be harder if ur spreadsheeting tbn uses or whatever.
War/Drk still have very bland boring rotations to me, but every tank at this point is "easy" I don't think the thread was also on about which tank is the hardest at the highest level, that would be previous paladin then current dark knight.

In the end of the day it doesn't matter what's easier or harder, they're all easy to get into and perform at a good level, I really don't like DRKs current design and rotation but I do like TBN being a more skilful ability on higher ends were you can hold a stack for burst but that's about it, honestly tanks need to reward players for using defensives well by small damage amounts (such as adding shield swipe or a "10% dmg buff to your next DA TBN") In general as I think good defensive use should reward a tiny bit of damage (as long as its more of a optimisation and less of a punishment)

They're all basically neck-and-neck at this point, but I guess I would have to go GNB>DRK/PLD>WAR for ascending ease of play [WAR=easiest, but only by a bit].

...Unless you're in a situation in which you can make a special and active effort to milk the unique affordances of TBN or ranged spell phases for additional uptime, in which case it's just GNB/DRK/PLD>WAR.

For me its Warrior.

The self sustains are strong and its damage output is decent. It has the same benefits as White Mage to healers, a little "no thrills", but it does what it says on the tin without any gimmicks.

I'd actually put Gunbreaker second. Obviously its a more challenging tank, but to pick up and play its a nice job provided you know your tanking basics.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I dont think everyone is optimising every little semblance of dmg out of dark knight, sure it might be harder if ur spreadsheeting tbn uses or whatever.

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The same can be said for GnB. I could just use the standard opener and rotation on every fight, or I could use a different scuffed customized rotation for every fight just to squeeze some extra potency into my team's killtime, like using Double Down way earlier just so I can cleave the Darkened Fire in P3S.
Although I haven't played the job since 2.5 GCD became the meta, maybe optimizing GnB's rotation is completely dead now.

But it's also entirely pointless in EW, you can spreadsheet everything and still do worse than a DrK that just does the basics but crits every 2-min window.

If we go by optimization potential then I guess yes, Warrior is by far the easiest since there is basically nothing to optimize. You can't do a Memeheaval opener anymore and the change to IR from 90 to 60 seconds means you rarely ever want to not use it on cooldown, the only fun that job has left is trying to squeeze as much healing out of excess Nascent Flash usages as possible.

Based on play rates, WAR is absolutely destroying the other 3 tanks in terms of how many people are actually playing the job, PLD is next(but significantly lower), GNB is 3rd, and DRK is seeing the least play.
However DRK is still sitting at the top with the fastest clears.

If Dark Knight was really easy people would be playing it more to get better clear times, but they're not.
This makes me believe that playing DRK at the highest level you can is more difficult than the other tanks or at least on par with GNB specifically because it follows a similar trend but not nearly as drastically.
And no its not a preference thing, Dark Knight completely destroyed the other 3 tanks in terms of playrates in Abyssos.
A lot of people will play what they precieve to be optimal,but with the tank balance chances, DRK is only doing that if you can squeeze out everything it has to offer at the highest level.

But the real truth is none of this matters and most of the difficulty in this game comes from the content itself and not the job, and I don't think super tight dps checks are ever going to be a thing again after abyssos so...who gives a shit

War by 500 miles. 25sec CD invuln button for dungeon packs, and a very potent heal for other stuff (equil). Extremly simple rotation with minimal ogcds to worry about. Shortest CD Tank invuln aswell.
Only thing thats janky and can be confusing with warrior is how holmgang works when you are targeting mobs without using the macro.