Please rework living dead again.

Please either increase the timer to heal yourself, or rework the spell again. Dying because you press a GCD a split second before hitting 0 HP is insane, why cant you just give DRK a normal invuln like basically any other tank? absolutely insane.

Doing duels in Zadnor and taking a buster to the face, or dying to P12S lazy lasers strat because of timing + Living Dead mechanic is ridiculous, you need at least 1 oGCD from a healer just to be safe incase of a bad GCD tick, like jesus christ.

Add a small healing potency to oGCDs while under Walking Dead instead, make it a real exciting scramble to get that last 10%.

Imagine needing a healer to *checks notes* heal you. Living Dead is fine as is.

And here come the gatekeeping Warrior mains, explaining why your jank needs to stay so they can feel special.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

And here come the gatekeeping Warrior mains, explaining why your jank needs to stay so they can feel special.

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Nah, I don't recognize "I got server ticked" as a DRK-specific complaint when every job deals with it.

I like skills with tricky timings. I'm still annoyed that CBU3 lobotomized Berserk and Hypercharge to a boring charge system rather than fixing their horrible netcode. I would love it if Berserk went back to its "worse" Shadowbringers version.

My real complaint against Living Dead is that its cool new redesign is still ridiculously unwieldy to use in big pulls solely due to the number of tunnelling healers who only see HP bars and not buffs or chat messages, so they panic and waste all their cooldowns once you hit 20% and don't allow LD to pop, practically guaranteeing your death later in the pull. No other tank has to deal with that crap since WAR can Benediction himself every 30s and PLD/GNB have panic-proof, dungeon-ready invulns.

Its funny how much of a non issue it would be if DRK literally had any sort of healing of its own at all.

Use a potion. Or, if you're in Zadnor like you say, use Bloodsucker. Problem solved.

Using a healing potion places your tincture on cooldown and vice versa. If it didn't, then everyone would be using it.

I can appreciate that there is both an upside and downside to Living Dead in its current format. What we should really be talking about is moving Holmgang, which has no drawbacks, to a 5 minute recast.

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Originally Posted by StrifeBlade

Please either increase the timer to heal yourself, or rework the spell again. Dying because you press a GCD a split second before hitting 0 HP is insane, why cant you just give DRK a normal invuln like basically any other tank? absolutely insane.

Doing duels in Zadnor and taking a buster to the face, or dying to P12S lazy lasers strat because of timing + Living Dead mechanic is ridiculous, you need at least 1 oGCD from a healer just to be safe incase of a bad GCD tick, like jesus christ.

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If you can't press 3 gcd's in 10 seconds, or time LD correctly in P12S then that sounds like a skill issue.

It's actually impossible to die using LD now.

Only downside to LD is that it's not great on slow 3+ hit busters, even then it's because the final hit of them hits you after the lifesteal wears off, so you need a small extra heal - But Holmgang and Bolide have that same issue anyway.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

If you can't press 3 gcd's in 10 seconds, or time LD correctly in P12S then that sounds like a skill issue.

It's actually impossible to die using LD now.

Only downside to LD is that it's not great on slow 3+ hit busters, even then it's because the final hit of them hits you after the lifesteal wears off, so you need a small extra heal - But Holmgang and Bolide have that same issue anyway.

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Zurvan Unreal puts you in a situation where its impossible to resolve Living Dead on your own without a crit.

Saying its impossible is a lie, unlikely, but not impossible.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

If you can't press 3 gcd's in 10 seconds, or time LD correctly in P12S then that sounds like a skill issue.

It's actually impossible to die using LD now.

Only downside to LD is that it's not great on slow 3+ hit busters, even then it's because the final hit of them hits you after the lifesteal wears off, so you need a small extra heal - But Holmgang and Bolide have that same issue anyway.

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Hi, Living Dead requires 4 GCDs to heal yourself out of it, unless you crit then its 3 assuming the other 2 are non-crits. Please read the tooltips lol. No other tank or dps for that matter deals with a server tick or GCD timer issue like a DRK does, especially Warriors with a 4 minute, spammable invuln on P11S for each main TB.

If your referring also to something like the P10S buster, you simply use one mitigation and soak 3 hits, proccing LD on the third, which means you then heal yourself entirely without healer intervention unless you have a GCD timer.

Another example of jank, I am doing the Zadnor duels atm, Bloodsucker is not viable to use because its too low damage and also a waste of holster space if you use it just for that mechanic, but because of having increased HP in Zadnor due to the mettle buffs, your Living Dead will eventually not save you at all, because whilst your HP increase, the healing from LD does not - its not %based its a flat cure potency scaled to level, so you will indeed die unless you use something like a potion kit on top, no other tank has this kind of jank design problem.

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Originally Posted by StrifeBlade

Doing duels in Zadnor and taking a buster to the face, or dying to P12S lazy lasers strat because of timing + Living Dead mechanic is ridiculous, you need at least 1 oGCD from a healer just to be safe incase of a bad GCD tick, like jesus christ.

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You are trying to cheese an easy mechanic and complain? just play the mechanic its not hard. and in zadnor, pick warrior, it is the best by far.

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Originally Posted by StrifeBlade

Please either increase the timer to heal yourself, or rework the spell again. Dying because you press a GCD a split second before hitting 0 HP is insane, why cant you just give DRK a normal invuln like basically any other tank? absolutely insane.

Doing duels in Zadnor and taking a buster to the face, or dying to P12S lazy lasers strat because of timing + Living Dead mechanic is ridiculous, you need at least 1 oGCD from a healer just to be safe incase of a bad GCD tick, like jesus christ.

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First of all, if you can't 100% yourself with 4 GCDs, get more Determination and/or Skillspeed instead of Direct Hit. Hold your GCD if you think it matters. Chances are if you die by failing LD's healcheck by yourself you aren't good at optimizing your damage either so Direct Hit will fundamentally not matter anymore.

Second, don't do Lazy Lasers. Especially not when holding enmity #1. Tell your Parties to stop being twats and learn the easiest mech in the fight. If they can do Superchains and Para 3 then they can do Para 1.

Third, if you die to Bozja or Zadnor busters in a duel you should blame your lack of planning and not Living Dead. Auto Potion can be applied pre-fight and will help you a significant amount if you run Martialist instead of Bloodsucker. You also can just choose to HOLD Tincture use until you cleared mechs where you need healing for Living Dead using more Auto Potions or Lost Elixir, especially with Valor buffs. Or you know, get Zadnor Heal buff stacks, that works for Living Dead.

Barring moments where I simply cant attack due to stuns or lack of a target, I have never died with post 6.1 Living Dead by failing the heal check. The invuln is seriously good, the death penalty is difficult to get if you just play normally. Half the time I heal out of it in two weaponskills due to Crits.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

And here come the gatekeeping Warrior mains, explaining why your jank needs to stay so they can feel special.

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Or, hear me out - DRK mains who tell other DRK mains that they need to stop blaming their tools for their lack of problemsolving.

LD's death penalty for failing heal check is so laughabky ignorable, the real edge WAR has is Holmgang being a minute less on CD.

I would say the bigger issue with Living Dead in Bozja content is that its healing doesnt really scale if you have any HP increasing effects from an action/essense or Resistance Honors.

Luckily once you max out healing stacks it does catch up to any scenario, including the DRN/S Indomidable + 10 HP stacks. but it is pretty easy to make Living dead not work in Bozja unless you're specifically building that up.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I would say the bigger issue with Living Dead in Bozja content is that its healing doesnt really scale if you have any HP increasing effects from an action/essense or Resistance Honors.

Luckily once you max out healing stacks it does catch up to any scenario, including the DRN/S Indomidable + 10 HP stacks. but it is pretty easy to make Living dead not work in Bozja unless you're specifically building that up.

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It do be like that yeah. May be worth the investment if one prioritizes Tincture over Potion Kit / Elixir. Damage can be levelled at leisure but HP boost and Heal boost should rise equally to ensure less hiccups with LD.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

And here come the gatekeeping Warrior mains, explaining why your jank needs to stay so they can feel special.

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Just wait for the tears of rage when they get nerfed to oblivion.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

It's actually impossible to die using LD now..

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It's legit possible, if you're unlucky LD can pop at a bad GCD timing and if it doesn't crit, you'll be short a few HP.
It's a very rare case but I've experienced it and I was asked to throw a Aurora/Corundum to avoid this problem.

DRK just needs a bit more self healing, it's really a ridiculously short amount.
In lower level content, your crit rate is also reduced, as well with your det stat.

Other than that, Living Dead is excellent and don't need to be changed. Please don't give DRK a "normal invuln ike the other tanks", remember we're also complaining that tanks feels too similar.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It's legit possible, if you're unlucky LD can pop at a bad GCD timing and if it doesn't crit, you'll be short a few HP.
It's a very rare case but I've experienced it and I was asked to throw a Aurora/Corundum to avoid this problem.

DRK just needs a bit more self healing, it's really a ridiculously short amount.
In lower level content, your crit rate is also reduced, as well with your det stat.

Other than that, Living Dead is excellent and don't need to be changed. Please don't give DRK a "normal invuln like the other tanks", remember we're also complaining that tanks feels too similar.

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Assuming you are keeping the GCD rolling, you need 4 weaponskills at absolute most to get you out of Walking Dead healer-free.

If you didn't heal yourself out of it in that time frame you either had Weakness / Brink of Death at which point your healer should be aware of it in the first place or your substats consist of basically near 0 determination / tenacity and you built Crit + DH + Skill Speed exclusively and got incredibly unlucky. Given that this is currently impossible since gear is designed to throw Crit-Det and Crit-Ten in our face while avoiding to ever give us Crit-SkS (screw you, seriously SE) this is unlikely. Given any content where you seriously might need Living Dead has a Regen + Shield Healer, you likely have a Faerie or Kardia healing you over time as well.

4x 1500 heal potency, even if you pressed your previous GCD at a bad timing, is enough. you can easily hit 4 GCDs in 10s.

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Originally Posted by StrifeBlade

Hi, Living Dead requires 4 GCDs to heal yourself out of it, unless you crit then its 3 assuming the other 2 are non-crits. Please read the tooltips lol. No other tank or dps for that matter deals with a server tick or GCD timer issue like a DRK does, especially Warriors with a 4 minute, spammable invuln on P11S for each main TB.

If your referring also to something like the P10S buster, you simply use one mitigation and soak 3 hits, proccing LD on the third, which means you then heal yourself entirely without healer intervention unless you have a GCD timer.

Another example of jank, I am doing the Zadnor duels atm, Bloodsucker is not viable to use because its too low damage and also a waste of holster space if you use it just for that mechanic, but because of having increased HP in Zadnor due to the mettle buffs, your Living Dead will eventually not save you at all, because whilst your HP increase, the healing from LD does not - its not %based its a flat cure potency scaled to level, so you will indeed die unless you use something like a potion kit on top, no other tank has this kind of jank design problem.

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Considering all other stats of Living Dead (5min is still short) and even ignoring the likelihood of a single Shield healer being present (Faerie, Kardia) let alone an AOE regen or a Healer having the awareness to give you a single heal, 4 GCDs are easy to hit. If for any reason you fail to do 4 GCDs, either stop being greedy and just hold your GCD for a moment or stop playing at 2.50s speed. The healcheck is a genuine non-issue.

As for your Zadnor example, if you decided to boost HP and can't use it there to heal yourself out of it, then do one of the following:

• Pre-apply Auto-Potion with Potion Kit or use it / Lost Elixir midway. This requires you to not open with STR Tincture, but if you are complaining about Zadnor HP buff ruining your LD, you likely have Zadnor DMG buffs.
• Have Lost Slash or Lost Assassination in your holster and overwrite an action that's already on cooldown (they count as Weaponskills)
• Don't use Living Dead and just bite the bullet using Lost Manawall instead
• Just get yourself an equal amount of Zadnor Heal buff to your HP buff...
• Play Warrior

Nah ain't gonna happen LD is easy to use and broken

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Zurvan Unreal puts you in a situation where its impossible to resolve Living Dead on your own without a crit.

Saying its impossible is a lie, unlikely, but not impossible.

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I just fail to understand why you would need to resolve the healing part of LD on your own unless you're trying to solo some sort of content you aren't meant to be doing solo in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Assuming you are keeping the GCD rolling, you need 4 weaponskills at absolute most to get you out of Walking Dead healer-free.

If you didn't heal yourself out of it in that time frame you either had Weakness / Brink of Death at which point your healer should be aware of it in the first place or your substats consist of basically near 0 determination / tenacity and you built Crit + DH + Skill Speed exclusively and got incredibly unlucky. Given that this is currently impossible since gear is designed to throw Crit-Det and Crit-Ten in our face while avoiding to ever give us Crit-SkS (screw you, seriously SE) this is unlikely. Given any content where you seriously might need Living Dead has a Regen + Shield Healer, you likely have a Faerie or Kardia healing you over time as well.

4x 1500 heal potency, even if you pressed your previous GCD at a bad timing, is enough. you can easily hit 4 GCDs in 10s.

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It happened to me in DSR after the very last tether tank-buster in P3, you just couldn't have a weakness debuff or that was a wipe there. There's no required healing after that, I haven't played DRK since.
Since all TB applied a dot in savage, I would always throw a aurora to my DRK OT and there was Kardia, so I haven't witnessed it in Abyssos.
It also happened in TOP to my DRK partner on P1 lasers where we just stand in front and that's where I was tasked to throw aurora. You can't have weakness debuff here either, our SCH fairy probably targeted me as I was a GNB and lower on HP due to bolide.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It happened to me in DSR after the very last tether tank-buster in P3, you just couldn't have a weakness debuff or that was a wipe there. There's no required healing after that, I haven't played DRK since.
Since all TB applied a dot in savage, I would always throw a aurora to my DRK OT and there was Kardia, so I haven't witnessed it in Abyssos.
It also happened in TOP to my DRK partner on P1 lasers where we just stand in front and that's where I was tasked to throw aurora. You can't have weakness debuff here either, our SCH fairy probably targeted me as I was a GNB and lower on HP due to bolide.

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Yep, the common issue here is defo Weakness. So when that occurs the healers or potentially the co-tank need to assist. Beyond that, Living Dead is extremely fine though.

If you are dying to lazy lasers in P12s then your healers are bad or you dont have a WHM that is using bene on you before the auto attack goes off. LD is pretty much the best invuln in the game in terms of overall usefullness.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

You are trying to cheese an easy mechanic and complain? just play the mechanic its not hard. and in zadnor, pick warrior, it is the best by far.

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It's not a cheese strat, its simply an alternative strategy with superior usage of mitigation. ITs either invuln lazy lasers or invuln tank busters, much easier to invuln the lazers and mitigation the busters normally, its a simple taunt swap.

I think both Arohk and Reinhardt no offence have never played DRK or at the very least Bozja. 4 GCDs in Bozja with health buffs does not heal you to full. You will die, that is a non-arguable fact, maybe with healing buffs, which I have like, 6 but still last I checked I still died. As for Lazy Lasers, everyone and their grandma does that, its lazy and as in the name - easy.. I play primarily with PF, but sure let me go tell every static Ive played with and PF member to do lazy lasers because someone on a forum prefers a different tactic entirely, great idea. The LD dying has nothing to do with Lazy Lasers itself, only that the GCD timing can throw you off and kill you depending on when it procs.

I appreciate your auto-potion suggestion but I already do that, and auto-ether. Neither of these affect tincture use, so I use that also. I am playing 2.45s GCD, ironic you say dont greed when you have to hit GCDs, and once again no other tank has to deal with that. The heal-check is indeed a non-issue most of the time, but the 5% of the time it is an issue because its a clunky mechanic. I'm not going to drop Banner or Blood rage for anything, its a huge damage loss and a holster capacity waste, that goes for manawall as well. I instead have to save an auto-potion CD for the buster rather than mash the ethers, because its a clunky mechanic. I use Irregular into Martialist, bloodsucker is non-viable unless your trying to learn the fights or really need that tiny bit of extra healing, but then every mechanic is going to one shot you anyway if you get hit period.

also, not going to play warrior lmao. There seems to be a universe you guys live in where dying to LD is now an impossibility after the changes, and any death because of it is a skill issue, as if anyone has trouble pressing 4 GCDs, what else would they do with their time? xD

Thanks for the input anyway.

Absolutely not, Holmgang is the best. 4 minute CD, can invuln every buster on P11S, invuln DSR P2 Thordan first buster + P3 tank tether, purely because of that cooldown, it is hands down the best, you survive as every invuln is meant to do, and you can use it far more frequently especially compared to PLD.

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Originally Posted by StrifeBlade

I think both Arohk and Reinhardt no offence have never played DRK or at the very least Bozja. 4 GCDs in Bozja with health buffs does not heal you to full. You will die, that is a non-arguable fact, maybe with healing buffs, which I have like, 6 but still last I checked I still died.

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Hi Reinhardt here, you have a lot nerves saying shit like this.

First of all, I've been maining DRK since Stormblood, patch 4.3 (the big DRK buff patch).

• Savage experience (clears) since 4.3 (half of Sigmascape, Alphascape, all of Eden, all of Pandemonium barring P12S phase 2 right now)
• Cleared Ultimates: Alexander (7 kills), Ultima Weapon (probably 8 kills?)
• Progged Ultimates: Thordan (phase 5 start), Omega (phase 3 Hello World)
• Bozja Duels: Gabriel, Lyon #1, Sartauvoir, Menenius (multiple kills each)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6586/image.png
...as Dark Knight. So I urge to go and rethink how smart your "thought" response was. When people disagree with your problem, they may have a point and you are either not noticing an error in your play or are wilfully ignorant.

As for specifically Bozja, I'd like to forward to you the stats of the Zadnor buffs.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1878/image.png
10 stacks of [Ray of Fortitude] give you +50% HP. To balance out the additional heal requirement, you need half as many stacks of [Ray of Succor]. You will need more if you happen under effects which increase maxHP further (Bubble).

However, I have been a bit fancy and tried something with my 2 stacks of Fortitude (+10% max HP) and added a Bubble (+30% on the 110% maxHP, so a total of +43% maxHP). I let myself drop to 1 with Living Dead and managed to heal out of that with zero stacks of Succor. Granted, one hit may be a crit, but that is variance that I can make up with literally anything - like using Souleater in that window, having Auto-Potion active for that window (heals for 50% max HP the moment you drop below 50% max HP) or, which is cheap, Succor stacks.

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As for Lazy Lasers, everyone and their grandma does that, its lazy and as in the name - easy.. I play primarily with PF, but sure let me go tell every static Ive played with and PF member to do lazy lasers because someone on a forum prefers a different tactic entirely, great idea. The LD dying has nothing to do with Lazy Lasers itself, only that the GCD timing can throw you off and kill you depending on when it procs.

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You have full control over the environment you want to play in. If people insist on lazy lasers, you then have full control over your own GCD speed. If whatever speed you are using horribly misaligns with the timing of Living Dead turning into Walking Dead, you now either have to pick one of the following:

• You pick a different Skillspeed value that aligns better with your rotation
• You hold your GCD, because unless you are doing log runs that half GCD of damage lost does not matter to the clear
• You ask one of your healers nicely for a heal or a heal boost (SGE Krasis) to make exiting Walking Dead easier

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I appreciate your auto-potion suggestion but I already do that, and auto-ether. Neither of these affect tincture use, so I use that also.

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Then you literally shouldn't have any issues in Bozja, mathematically speaking. In fact, you can even fit 5 gcds easily in Bozja, provided you use the Bozjan earring and multiple Augmented Bozja gear pieces (all granting Haste stats, I reach 2,18s GCD without Delubrum Savage gear).

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I am playing 2.45s GCD, ironic you say dont greed when you have to hit GCDs, and once again no other tank has to deal with that. The heal-check is indeed a non-issue most of the time, but the 5% of the time it is an issue because its a clunky mechanic.

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Hi, 2.48s DRK in raids here, my half-of-a-GCD literally doesnt matter and I rather hold the GCD to ensure I get my 4 in, which are usually 2-3 because I play Crit-Det and not Crit-DH. Yes my damage is still more than passable, thanks for probably assuming as you read this.

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I'm not going to drop Banner or Blood rage for anything, its a huge damage loss and a holster capacity waste, that goes for manawall as well. I instead have to save an auto-potion CD for the buster rather than mash the ethers, because its a clunky mechanic. I use Irregular into Martialist, bloodsucker is non-viable unless your trying to learn the fights or really need that tiny bit of extra healing, but then every mechanic is going to one shot you anyway if you get hit period.

also, not going to play warrior lmao. There seems to be a universe you guys live in where dying to LD is now an impossibility after the changes, and any death because of it is a skill issue, as if anyone has trouble pressing 4 GCDs, what else would they do with their time? xD

Thanks for the input anyway.

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If you want to insist on keeping Blood Rage beyond the initial pull, be my guest. If you are replacing it with Font of Power, adjust the extra Banners and items as needed. Alternatively, if you feel spicy, use Lost Elixir instead of Manawall (4 holster space). If you use Manawall variant, you simply swap out an active Banner, use Manawall then drop it for a new Banner. If you use Elixir variant you simply move your Tincture timing.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...5442/image.png

Or alternatively just use 5x or more [Ray of Succor] Zadnor buff.

We are giving you a billion ways to deal with Living Dead under many different scenarios. I'd appreciate it if you stopped blaming the game's "jank" and instead simply used the tools we are telling you to use.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I just fail to understand why you would need to resolve the healing part of LD on your own unless you're trying to solo some sort of content you aren't meant to be doing solo in the first place.

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I guess the bigger question would be why does DRK have to do this when the other tanks dont, it be fine if there was a notable benefit to it, but there isn't.

I dont hate LD as it is now, but I'm not going to act like its flawless.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I guess the bigger question would be why does DRK have to do this when the other tanks dont, it be fine if there was a notable benefit to it, but there isn't.

I dont hate LD as it is now, but I'm not going to act like its flawless.

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I suppose the idea is the Invuln having nearly as low of a cooldown as Holmgang while not requiring other tools from the kit to get out of a 1HP state. Hallowed and Superbolide provide true invulns, but the former's CD is very lengthy placed in a kit with inherently good survival and ok damage, where Bolide does put you low there you might need to burn or pre time Heart of Corundum (Lv90 only).

So LD having a fairly low CD for an invuln with essentially a built in Benediction, made up with a kit that most likely invalidates every other bit of damage you might take, especially magical, not so well on multi hit busters tho. Your only requirement is that you WILL use the heal where other tanks can choose to stay low. Dunno, I see it as an optimizer's heaven.

Living Dead is fine.

Greed responsibly.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Its funny how much of a non issue it would be if DRK literally had any sort of healing of its own at all.

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We used to but WAR's cried we were OP, so their dad's on the dev team took away all our self sustain in shadowbringers and gave it the WAR's.

Why must every tank feel the same again? If you don't like it there are three others? I thought that's why we have a variety in the first place. I dunno.

Leave Living Dead as is, it's very comfy now and I would like for it NOT to become like any of the other three.

All I can say to the people who say the healing check is a non-issue for living dead. So get rid of it if its a non-issue.

"Oh but... wait... not like that"

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Originally Posted by Valknut

All I can say to the people who say the healing check is a non-issue for living dead. So get rid of it if its a non-issue.

"Oh but... wait... not like that"

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That's not how designing abilities works. If they remove the heal requirement, they will axe the heal component along with it or severely weaken it. At this point you simply have Holmgang again.

The reason why we say it is a non-issue is because in standard gameplay a Dark Knight can resolve it with minimal effort, but needs to put in effort nontheless. That's why it deserves to have the heal mechanic since 6.1.

There is no point changing it further.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Its funny how much of a non issue it would be if DRK literally had any sort of healing of its own at all.

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their 1,2,3 has self healing, abyssal drain has self healing, living dead is nothing but self healing. there ya go.

So.. how you actually use living dead?
Or we just use this in end game content only?

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Originally Posted by Malthir

We used to but WAR's cried we were OP, so their dad's on the dev team took away all our self sustain in shadowbringers and gave it the WAR's.

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No idea who asked for this, but I mained WAR in Stormblood and I did not ask for any of the tank changes we got in either Shadowbringers or Endwalker.