Alliance raid fix?

https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/2L0ESWjWt4vl.jpg"IL restrictions for Duty Roulette: Alliance Raid based on level'. Are they finally fixing ilvl cheese?

Sounds like that is what they are doing yes.

Seems so. Whenever fixing this was brought up around here, a LOT of people would come out to defend their ILVL cheesing bullshit too, so I'm glad the devs fixed it and I'll have fun seeing those people in Orbonne Monastery. :)

Let's hope it actually improves the issue, but I'd imagine they have some data to back it up.

now they only have to make the higher raids mandatory if you wanna sign up for the roulette on a lvl 60+ job.

nice change though

This won't change anything. I am glad that it is happening because now people won't be able to blame ilvl cheese when they keep getting Crystal Tower.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Let's hope it actually improves the issue, but I'd imagine they have some data to back it up.

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Wouldnt be too hopeful about it. Ilvl cheese isnt exactly the only reason for lots of CT. Hopefully ilvl cheesers will stop pushing me to nier all the time now though.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...bonnesweep.png

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

This won't change anything. I am glad that it is happening because now people won't be able to blame ilvl cheese when they keep getting Crystal Tower.

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It will change something. It will mean that when someone is trying to queue for a higher raid, more people will be available to be assigned to that raid through the roulette.

Meanwhile, if people have so many reasons to be direct-queuing for CT, the game will be able to group more of them together into a single run instead of getting spread out across more groups filled up with people who would be better assigned to higher raids.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...bonnesweep.png

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Ultima be like: from ink of darkest roulette i summon thee.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

This won't change anything. I am glad that it is happening because now people won't be able to blame ilvl cheese when they keep getting Crystal Tower.

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Yeah, came here to say this. Statistically, Crystal Tower will be your most likely result anyway.

And I know its just my personal experience, but I get a healthy amount of variety on my Alliance Roulettes (it's the only one I do every day, because I loathe 4-man stuff), to the point that I think people that complain have the worst luck in the world or have limited exposure to the roulette or are just exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It will change something. It will mean that when someone is trying to queue for a higher raid, more people will be available to be assigned to that raid through the roulette.

Meanwhile, if people have so many reasons to be direct-queuing for CT, the game will be able to group more of them together into a single run instead of getting spread out across more groups filled up with people who would be better assigned to higher raids.

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Technically, yes, I just think that when this change happens, people will still keep getting Crystal Tower a lot more than they want and that people shouldn't expect this to stop.

More people have access to Crystal Tower than any other raid because it is the lowest level and also required for MSQ, but even before that just being the lowest level was a huge factor.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Technically, yes, I just think that when this change happens, people will still keep getting Crystal Tower a lot more than they want and that people shouldn't expect this to stop.

More people have access to Crystal Tower than any other raid because it is the lowest level and also required for MSQ, but even before that just being the lowest level was a huge factor.

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Yet I think I have a hypothetical on how they're going to structure iLv Restrictions. They'll do it by Expansion.

ARR: Crystal Tower(i90)
HW: Void Ark Series(i235)
Stormblood: Ivalice Series(i365)
Shadowbringers: Nier Raid Series(i495)
Endwalker: Myths of the Realm(i625)

This way you have to meet iLv requirements to use the Alliance Roulette.

In the end though, those who had gripes at the potential of being cheesed, or loved it for some reason.

Knew the fact that Crystal still will have it's large spawn rate.

Even more so us here in the forums who will have heard it endlessly had they not decided to put some focus/look into it.

I take pleasure in the fact that it's closer to intended. Rather than the unintended.

Whilst it won't be as perfect as can be, at least nothing is lost. [while it cannot please those who would likely still want adjusted difficulties for old content. for the larger majority. it'll get rid of any doubt of the luck of the draw.]
(me personally, just glad it reduced more reasons for things such like when Cas would get ditched -for bs reasons.-)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It will change something. It will mean that when someone is trying to queue for a higher raid, more people will be available to be assigned to that raid through the roulette.

Meanwhile, if people have so many reasons to be direct-queuing for CT, the game will be able to group more of them together into a single run instead of getting spread out across more groups filled up with people who would be better assigned to higher raids.

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Was just about to come in here and say this. I don't even queue alliance raid roulette anymore but it'll be nice to queue later araids for fun/glam and not have the queue take 30+ minutes in the middle of the day.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...25/476/979.jpg

Hahah, eat dirt cheesers. I'm very excited for this change.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

This won't change anything. I am glad that it is happening because now people won't be able to blame ilvl cheese when they keep getting Crystal Tower.

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Then why did people bother to item level cheese in the first place if according to you they were going to end up in Crystal Tower anyway? It's almost like they knew they might end up in a higher level raid. And now they will. :D

I'd temper expectations on this. While there were ilevel cheesers at times, CT is still going to be weighted heavily to come up in AR because it has the most reasons to be chosen. It's required for MSQ. This alone can make it the only raid some players ever unlock. It's tied to multiple relics. It's useful for leveling. And instead of being forced into higher level raids, the cheesers may just stop running it. I just don't see the others coming up nearly as much as some think.

I've been suggesting this for years and I am very excited that ilvl cheesing is finally dead. The only way this could be better is if they un-nerfed Orbonne.

Looking forward to watching all the cheesers get destroyed in the rest of the raids. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Hahah, eat dirt cheesers. I'm very excited for this change.



Then why did people bother to item level cheese in the first place if according to you they were going to end up in Crystal Tower anyway? It's almost like they knew they might end up in a higher level raid. And now they will. :D

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Not what jeeqbit is talking about. Cheesers will be affected by this but the impact on the rest of the roulette goers could very well be a lot lower than you think.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

I've been suggesting this for years and I am very excited that ilvl cheesing is finally dead. The only way this could be better is if they un-nerfed Orbonne.

Looking forward to watching all the cheesers get destroyed in the rest of the raids. :cool:

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I think they'd rather stop doing araid roulette.

The point of roulettes is to help people clear.

People could not do HW/SB raids, and the cheese is a part of that. Yes, it will still be more ARR, but now at least they stand a better chance to get a pop before a 1/2 hour hits.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I think they'd rather stop doing araid roulette.

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Then good riddance.

I for one look forward to all the complaint threads with this change of "OMG AR take so long to pop now and when they do, it's a s--show!!". And a sprinkling of "OMG sq, make people do sky sea thing before they can queue for AR!" :rolleyes:

While Crystal Tower will still statistically be the most likely, at least in my experience there are a LOT of ilvl cheese players. I swear every other ally roulette there is someone whose max HP suspiciously skyrockets the moment we get in.

For those that do not understand what it means, then when you hit you need to match the ilevel for the level 60 raids... and 70.. 80.. to be able to use the roulette.

It is about time they did something like this, yes crystal tower will still be represented, but at least there is no way to cheese it.

I don't think that this will solve the abundance of CT raids in the roulette.

There's already a bunch of reasons why CT is the most common that have nothing to do with ilv cheesing. I think focusing on solving those problems instead would be a better idea, starting with making the other raids worth doing by making the rewards (other than exp) match the length and effort put into the raid you get. If you're level 90, the Copied Factory or Puppet's Bunker will give you the same reward as LotA or Syrcus Tower will, but it will require far more time and effort to complete. Thus, I think better rewards should be given for raids that require more investment. Whether that be more tomestones (not poetics) or relic drops, there just needs to be something of value that comes out of doing harder/longer raids. I don't think the best solution to this is to try and simply force people to do the higher level content for the same reward. People should want to do the things they get in roulettes, not feel like they have to because a system arbitrarily required them to do it. This is a similar problem to the one with Mentor roulette, where the rewards are balanced for doing a guildhest, but you have the potential to get Praetorium or an extreme trial, and both take far longer than the reward is worth. Alliance raid roulette is going to have the same problem that Mentor does. If you get a longer Alliance raid, it might be better for you to just eat the 30m ban and leave, just like mentors already do for extreme trials.

But, I suppose this does at least get the people who constantly blame the flaws with the roulette system on ilv cheesing to finally shut up, and maybe that will cause the other issues to get more attention, so that is at least a plus.

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Originally Posted by Windfire

I for one look forward to all the complaint threads with this change of "OMG AR take so long to pop now and when they do, it's a s--show!!". And a sprinkling of "OMG sq, make people do sky sea thing before they can queue for AR!" :rolleyes:

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I would rather wait a bit longer to get literally anything but CT, so you won't hear complaints from people like me. And I'm used to carrying since I usually queue as healer, so I don't really care if people don't do Stone, Sky, Sea. Especially since that's for DPS and not for mechanics, by the way.

brb queueing CT directly just for the fun of it.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

brb queueing CT directly just for the fun of it.

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And you're within your rights to do so. Though I personally never will because in its current state it's so severely understimulating that it makes me want to do something actually engaging afterwards to get the taste out of my mouth. It will be nice to not be guaranteed a free win every time I queue for the roulette.

This has been a long time coming. Thank goodness. People cheesing CT all the time was disgusting.

https://i.imgur.com/r7WS2RP.png

*hypothetically*

Queue with a level 50 'friend'.

Friend immediately has an emergency and has to leave.

Spot gets filled by someone queueing for an in-progress roulette.

Profit.

The ARR alliance raids are still the most likely to show up, due to all the factors aside from the ilvl cheesing.

While getting some other ones for a change can be nice... You also increase the risk of getting the absolute slog that are the Nier raids.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Then why did people bother to item level cheese in the first place if according to you they were going to end up in Crystal Tower anyway? It's almost like they knew they might end up in a higher level raid. And now they will. :D

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Up until 5.3, ilvl cheese was the way to go because CT wasn't mandatory.

After 5.3, ilvl cheese was simply to ensure that luck didn't work against them.

This still isn't going to have the effect people think for a reason I didn't catch anyone else mentioning yet.

Shadows of Mhach, Return to Ivalice, YoRHa: Apocalypse and Myths of the Realm are not mandatory unlocks. Crystal Tower is the only mandatory Alliance raid.

Out of 5 characters I have that have completed the 6.0 MSQ, you will never get anything other than Crystal Tower if I queue for Alliance raid. It's not because they'll be ilvl cheesing. They'll have at least 640 ilvl equipped. It's because they've never unlocked those other Alliance raids.

So there are 3 reasons you're more likely to end up in CT:

Someone doing it for MSQ progression.
Someone leveling a job between level 50 and 59.
Someone has not unlocked the other Alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

https://i.imgur.com/r7WS2RP.png

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Their right if they're willing to take the penalty for leaving.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

brb queueing CT directly just for the fun of it.

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That's the point though. If you only want CT, you have to direct-queue for CT and not get the roulette bonus for theoretically being available to fill any dungeon.

Plus you'll probably join other people already queuing, and take a spot that would otherwise have to be filled by someone recruited from the roulette.

So go ahead, direct queue if that's the dungeon you want to spend your time in.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So there are 3 reasons you're more likely to end up in CT:

Someone doing it for MSQ progression.
Someone leveling a job between level 50 and 59.
Someone has not unlocked the other Alliance raids.

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Nobody is expecting to never see CT again after this change. "More likely" is fine. "Almost every time" is not, and that's what people were irritated by. I don't think any reasonable person would be angry seeing CT every so often because some sprouts are in the group or whatever, but getting pulled in there every single time you queue and then looking around to see people putting their normal gear back on is pretty infuriating.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

You also increase the risk of getting the absolute slog that are the Nier raids.

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They were a slog when they were new, I really disliked Copied Factory for that reason, but they go by fairly quickly these days.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So there are 3 reasons you're more likely to end up in CT:

Someone doing it for MSQ progression.
Someone leveling a job between level 50 and 59.
Someone has not unlocked the other Alliance raids.

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Also that they're working on relics in two possible expansions. It used to be 3 before they removed Koh's quest for the aether oil.

Oh and it often comes up as one of the options in WT.

its people who sign up specifically for crystal tower. the reason doesnt matter. msq, relic, boredom

I am fine helping noobs and low level people run CT. I was not fine getting in CT and seeing a bunch of people putting their clothes back on. Thankfully, neither did the powers at be. Maybe I'll start using the roulette again now that it's not broken by cheesers.

All these nay saying posts are probably cheesers that don't wanna hand over the win. But its over folks. Enjoy the cheese while it lasts.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

https://i.imgur.com/r7WS2RP.png

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If cheesing was done by this many people then a fix was sorely needed. A party of 24 can carry on even if some of the mud falls off.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

After 5.3, ilvl cheese was simply to ensure that luck didn't work against them.

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So they thought that without cheesing there was a decent chance they'd end up somewhere else than CT? Sounds good to me.