mechanic replacement

i've just been in castrum abania, the lvl 69 dungeon.

it disappointed me to see how the second boss got changed. do you remember it? the boss who creates a barrier which sends back any dmg to you unless you take on a certain element?
yeah, thats no more. that mechanic got replaced with.. who would have thought? AOE's... the elements became mere visuals.
cant we be expected to think the least little bit anymore? or was it too difficult to make the trust stand inside a specific element?

Idk why they even changed stormblood bosses... They for the most part seemed modern and functional.
ARR and some of heavensward i understand, but stormblood boss changes was a waste of a dev time IMO

I can not imagine that this was necessary to make this dungeon work with trusts. There is no way they couldnt have just made trusts go to the correct area.

Because in almost every single party, you were hard carrying at least one person through that boss. People don't read in dungeons anymore so SE removes reading requirements from dungeon mechanics.

Everything got dumb down so NPC trust can handle mechanics, also a reason why boss teleport to center for most mechanics as a BOT would have hard time repositioning bosses

Of all the mechanics to go, this is a great one to get rid of.
I get this dungeon so rarely I forget how this boss works every single time, only working it out again when he's basically dead.

The mechanic in that fight was not intuitive ie. most players did not understand it nor do it.

I did the dungeon many times and usually saw people take extreme damage from it because of the damage being reflected to them. The healer would have a lot of work and there would even be wipes from it.

I don't think it should have changed because it was an interesting fight, but changing it is in line with the current direction of making dungeon fights intuitive (aka obvious).

That's odd, it wasn't exactly hard to look at the text for a split second to know where to go. It wasn't exactly Nael quotes in UCOB difficulty.

All the old dungeons that got the trust treatment got dumbed down. Its very sad but understandable as they are building the game to be future proof. We will most likely see the same thing happen with trials come 7.0

It was the same in steps of faith og. The npcs told you what to do for the fight but people never read the hints so it was "hard"

If they needed to change it..,
It should of been to make the pillars stay static, and make the Trusts/Support stand in the correct spots. With the occasional wrong NPC taking it for the team.
But only for the Trusts/Support.

The Game doesn't have much to teach players to follow/pay attention to changes that suddenly get dropped on them.
[While the lack of teaching moments aren't causing grave damage, it is a loss to Basic Competency.]
<I miss OG Coincounter..,>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It was the same in steps of faith og. The npcs told you what to do for the fight but people never read the hints so it was "hard"

---

Steps of faith I can forgive because replaying it was an utter slog.

Castrum abania is such a poor decision though, god forbid a player gets a vuln stack and forces healers to play their job.

If they have the resources to tamper and tinker with old content then how about fixing up some of the bad Alexander raids or making a normal roulette playable version of coils?

Are you talking about the boss that would say, "My cup runneth with [element 1] and [element 2]"?

Why TF did they change that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The mechanic in that fight was not intuitive ie. most players did not understand it nor do it.

I did the dungeon many times and usually saw people take extreme damage from it because of the damage being reflected to them. The healer would have a lot of work and there would even be wipes from it.

I don't think it should have changed because it was an interesting fight, but changing it is in line with the current direction of making dungeon fights intuitive (aka obvious).

---

It was actually really easy. The boss tells you something about two elements, and the element the boss does not mention is the one you go to.

It'd be even easier with trusts because you wouldn't have to read or bother, you'd just mimic the trusts.

I liked the mech. And my guess is less that it wasn't something they could get Trusts to do but more that it wasn't following the consistency they've been trying to establish with mechanic triggers.

That said, nobody was doing it anyway so they may have seen that too and that helped them decide to pitch it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The mechanic in that fight was not intuitive ie. most players did not understand it nor do it.

I did the dungeon many times and usually saw people take extreme damage from it because of the damage being reflected to them. The healer would have a lot of work and there would even be wipes from it.

---

For many, that's fine. It's okay, and even wanted to encounter a sliver of challenge requiring a modicum of thought.

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if dungeons were a bit different depending on whether you were playing with Duty Support/Trust vs. other players.

[EW spoiler]:

For example, the Lv.89 trial starts you out with the "Willful" buff only when you play with Duty Support.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

It was actually really easy. The boss tells you something about two elements, and the element the boss does not mention is the one you go to.

---

I'm aware the mechanic was easy. That is not the same as being obvious. It was not obvious. You know why? Because most people didn't do it, especially when they were new. But even plenty of older players never got it.

You didn't even need to know what the boss said. You just needed to look at its status effect and enter the tower that has the same status effect, to imbue yourself with it. Then you could safely attack it and kill it faster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Of all the mechanics to go, this is a great one to get rid of.
I get this dungeon so rarely I forget how this boss works every single time, only working it out again when he's basically dead.

---

Terrible take. Bet you think running Labyrinth of ancients on Raid roulette again and again is good too cause 0 difficulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The mechanic in that fight was not intuitive ie. most players did not understand it nor do it.

I did the dungeon many times and usually saw people take extreme damage from it because of the damage being reflected to them. The healer would have a lot of work and there would even be wipes from it.

I don't think it should have changed because it was an interesting fight, but changing it is in line with the current direction of making dungeon fights intuitive (aka obvious).

---

God forbid people can wipe in a dungeon! the horror

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The mechanic in that fight was not intuitive

---

You can partially thank the English team for this — which, as usual, mangled it into something needlessly more convoluted than it was in other languages.

English:
My cup runneth over with fire and lightning!

JP:
雷属性、火属性エーテル充填……
バリアチェンジ！

Lightning and fire ether are filled up...
...Barrier change!


...Why is the English in faux old English for some random Garlean guy engineered in a laboratory?

Why is it using this strange and ambiguous phrase? It's just confusing at a glance — what cup? What is he talking about? What am I supposed to interpret from this? It's just such 14-year-old's Tumblr / DeviantArt "You know, I'm something of an author myself" pretentious fake depth.

And it doesn't even mention the barrier part.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Why is it using this strange and ambiguous phrase? It's just confusing at a glance — what cup? What is he talking about? What am I supposed to interpret from this? It's just such 14-year-old's Tumblr / DeviantArt "You know, I'm something of an author myself" pretentious fake depth.

---

Because localization requires content to be "appealing to the US market." They also tend to be horridly wrong.
Sort of like how the packages / boxes that videogames came in had very odd characters that looked nothing like the one in the game because localizers thought "anime-style" art will no appeal to folks.
I totally agree with your "14 year-old self-proclaimed author" comment... spot on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

You can partially thank the English team for this — which, as usual, mangled it into something needlessly more convoluted than it was in other languages.

English:
My cup runneth over with fire and lightning!

JP:
雷属性、火属性エーテル充填……
バリアチェンジ！

Lightning and fire ether are filled up...
...Barrier change!


...Why is the English in faux old English for some random Garlean guy engineered in a laboratory?

Why is it using this strange and ambiguous phrase? It's just confusing at a glance — what cup? What is he talking about? What am I supposed to interpret from this? It's just such 14-year-old's Tumblr / DeviantArt "You know, I'm something of an author myself" pretentious fake depth.

And it doesn't even mention the barrier part.

---

That's not the problem.
I can't see how this difference in dialogue changes things, you're still only picking out the key words fire and lightning, and you still have no reference for whether you're supposed to be standing in fire/lightning, or avoiding them, besides trial and error.

The fact that the only indication came in the form of dialogue, and wasn't included in either the action name or anything visual, is what caused people to miss it.
I mentally block out all non-voiced dialogue when I'm in battle (it doesn't help that the font is very low weight on a beige speech bubble) and I don't have it displayed in chat log either because it fills it up with spam.
This is the only fight I can think of in the entire game where this is the case, every other attack from every other fight (baring an odd exception that I may have forgotten and must be less impactful) has an indication that uses battle mechanics, i.e. action names (spell charging or flying text when used), player indicators (stacks, TB's etc.), ground effects (AOEs), or boss effects (e.g. WoL's in/out indicators).
Larboard/Starboard was better than this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DayHealer

Terrible take. Bet you think running Labyrinth of ancients on Raid roulette again and again is good too cause 0 difficulty.

---

I loath getting any Crystal Tower raid. I'd gladly take Orbonne every day over that. Original Orbonne before it was nerfed.
Try again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

The fact that the only indication came in the form of dialogue, and wasn't included in either the action name or anything visual, is what caused people to miss it.

---

No. Hard no. There was a long cast bar for an action called "Barrier Shift". Then the boss acquired an elemental buff. There were multiple indicators for what to do. If people couldn't connect that to their damage being reflected when they didn't have the right element...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

No. Hard no. There was a long cast bar for an action called "Barrier Shift". Then the boss acquired an elemental buff. There were multiple indicators for what to do. If people couldn't connect that to their damage being reflected when they didn't have the right element...

---

Well as I previously said. I get this dungeon maybe once every six months. So I miss those buffs every time, and by the time I notice them, the fight is over and it'll be another six months before I need to think about it again.

Admittedly I don't tend to look at enemy buffs a whole lot outside of EX/Savage, as they're not usually uniquely integral to the fight in casual content, and you can't 'hover over them' to see what they are on controller.

The action name doesn't tell you anything, other than he's doing a thing. It's changing his elements sure, but does it change them to elements you're supposed to avoid or stand in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

You can partially thank the English team for this — which, as usual, mangled it into something needlessly more convoluted than it was in other languages.

English:
My cup runneth over with fire and lightning!

JP:
雷属性、火属性エーテル充填……
バリアチェンジ！

Lightning and fire ether are filled up...
...Barrier change!


...Why is the English in faux old English for some random Garlean guy engineered in a laboratory?

Why is it using this strange and ambiguous phrase? It's just confusing at a glance — what cup? What is he talking about? What am I supposed to interpret from this? It's just such 14-year-old's Tumblr / DeviantArt "You know, I'm something of an author myself" pretentious fake depth.

And it doesn't even mention the barrier part.

---

Personally I don't find any issue with the English version. It requires some small deductive reasoning, but not too much I think.
"Hey there's three elements, and the boss mentioned two of them, maybe I should be doing something with the third"
Or hell, try doing something with the two he mentions and get killed. Should give you a good idea what to do next time just by process of elimination.

They shouldn't be changing encounters to this degree just to accommodate for NPCs.

If they cannot get it to work with NPCs, then they simply need to work more on it before they release it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

They shouldn't be changing encounters to this degree just to accommodate for NPCs.

---

Again, it's pretty obvious it's not being changed for NPCs. We know NPCs can do some of these older mechanics because of how simple some of them were. If you analyze all the fights that were changed to figure out what was consistent about all of them, it's that new players frequently failed to figured them out, even on subsequent attempts. That they were not obvious.

In contrast, any normal content made now, things are obvious and as you go through the fight it all clicks without having to solve a riddle in some text or read the status effects, and this is so obviously why they are changing them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Again, it's pretty obvious it's not being changed for NPCs. We know NPCs can do some of these older mechanics because of how simple some of them were. If you analyze all the fights that were changed to figure out what was consistent about all of them, it's that new players frequently failed to figured them out, even on subsequent attempts. That they were not obvious.

In contrast, any normal content made now, things are obvious and as you go through the fight it all clicks without having to solve a riddle in some text or read the status effects, and this is so obviously why they are changing them.

---

If this is the case why dont they alter the trust version to be thoughtless and easy for people that cant communicate with others to learn what to do with these neutered mechanics and leave the duty finder versions alone.

It seems like the game is going to become so boring over the next few years because they are making roulette content even less desirable to run . They should be encouraging team work, communication and the rewards for players to join in roulettes to help MSQ travelers or we will face a desolate duty finder experience in the future because people are bored senseless and have had enough of being coddled.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Of all the mechanics to go, this is a great one to get rid of.
I get this dungeon so rarely I forget how this boss works every single time, only working it out again when he's basically dead.

---

Same. Im glad im not the only one to see this mechanic go for pretty much the same reason. With randoms its almost a guaranteed wipe. No more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphor

Of all the mechanics to go, this is a great one to get rid of.
I get this dungeon so rarely I forget how this boss works every single time, only working it out again when he's basically dead.

---

You must be unironically special if that is hard to work out as someone who has played at least since SB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Same. Im glad im not the only one to see this mechanic go for pretty much the same reason. With randoms its almost a guaranteed wipe. No more.

---

You too

The real reason Castrum Abania is nerfed is because they need to cater to special needs as illustrated by these two bright talented young men

Changing bosses is fine if the mechanics are bad. However how do you change that boss and many other yet for some strange reason that stupid Elephant boss in Dusk Vigil doesn't get changed. That 20s stun is still in the game and it's absolutely ridiculous. I get more enjoyment dying and getting raised than I do with a 20s stun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

You must be unironically special if that is hard to work out as someone who has played at least since SB.



You too

The real reason Castrum Abania is nerfed is because they need to cater to special needs as illustrated by these two bright talented young men

---

He uses this move twice, maybe not even that if you kill him fast enough.
It takes trial and error to learn whether you need to avoid the elements he mentions, or stand in them.
So by the time you work it out, it's too late.

It's hardly 'special needs' if you forget that because you never play on this dungeon.

Of all the things to get salty about, why would you mourn the loss of a mechanic you experience maybe once or twice a year and has no real effect on gameplay, in casual content?
Now if it was something like an Alliance Raid, of which we have far fewer, or an Extreme or Savage fight that was getting nerfed, I'd get it. I couldn't give a crap about dungeons 2 or more expansions ago, they should be simplified (and brought into line with newer content for consistency) for player retention.

Ngl, I'm trying to figure out why people need to care about how 'hard' or 'easy' a leveling dungeon is.....if it was a capped one, sure.....If anything, most of these changes introduce current casual endgame dungeon/raid mechanics, just earlier. Kind of reminds me of people complaining about the cyclop moves being changed to have indicators before execution.....they eventually got over it though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

Ngl, I'm trying to figure out why people need to care about how 'hard' or 'easy' a leveling dungeon is.....if it was a capped one, sure.....If anything, most of these changes introduce current casual endgame dungeon/raid mechanics, just earlier. Kind of reminds me of people complaining about the cyclop moves being changed to have indicators before execution.....they eventually got over it though.

---

"Got over it"

Lmao, more like people got tired to complain at SE deaf ears.
People care about the difficulty cause we like the game to be engaging, not a cakewalk. But sure, lets pander to the RP community so they can finish dungeon fast to return to housing/venue.