TOP cleared with no healers

No wonder healers are complaining about their role. Not even the toughest fight to-date requires them xD.

I believe this is the video in question if anybody is curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k65bhdogQKw

This is already being discussed in this thread here, also in general discussion.

I'm not complaining about healing requirements after doing it in Savage. What a small group does just to prove they can do it doesn't represent a significant portion of the playerbase.

how are chinese players doing TOP? aren't they supposed to be 1 patch behind?

I hope they keep the healing close to 6.2 savage, it was a decent amount of dmg.

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

how are chinese players doing TOP? aren't they supposed to be 1 patch behind?

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This clear was bought to you by Surfshark!

What do you mean no healers? There's a Red Mage right there!

Just quit healing, play a DPS.

Nothing's gonna get done if SE thinks people still like playing healers

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

Just quit healing, play a DPS.

Nothing's gonna get done if SE thinks people still like playing healers

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Monkey's paw just spasms wildly as SE completely misreads the situation at hand and somehow manage to dumb down healers even further.

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Originally Posted by PredatoryCatgirl

What do you mean no healers? There's a Red Mage right there!

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AND A WARRIOR! They have plenty of healing to go around. Honestly those PLDs casting Clemency are throwing. Don't they know Clemency is just 1HP of healing?!

/s to be safe.

I rarely (if ever) get into the whole Healer convo because I really enjoy SCH as is, but... if this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/56e9...e5287e/1x.webp

Something definitely is broken if this is possible to do at all.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

AND A WARRIOR! They have plenty of healing to go around. Honestly those PLDs casting Clemency are throwing. Don't they know Clemency is just 1HP of healing?!

/s to be safe.

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Don't forget DNC and...SMN
Holy fudge tho.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I rarely (if ever) get into the whole Healer convo because I really enjoy SCH as is, but... if this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/56e9...e5287e/1x.webp

Something definitely is broken if this is possible to do at all.

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Agreed. It's something that takes exceptional coordination. However, the idea they could replace an entire role with the self-sustain from other classes is just completely broken. Especially a role that they've continuously said they want to have focus on healing. We're not being allowed to do our own role. I don't do this level of content but I've derped in a party before with a RDM or SMN and the group just leaves me on the floor because they don't need me. It's an awful feeling.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

Just quit healing, play a DPS.

Nothing's gonna get done if SE thinks people still like playing healers

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Then they just give other roles more self sustain. That's what got healers in this situation to begin with, lol.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Agreed. It's something that takes exceptional coordination. However, the idea they could replace an entire role with the self-sustain from other classes is just completely broken. Especially a role that they've continuously said they want to have focus on healing. We're not being allowed to do our own role. I don't do this level of content but I've derped in a party before with a RDM or SMN and the group just leaves me on the floor because they don't need me. It's an awful feeling.

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I'm not even the type that wants a bunch of DPS buttons back, I wanna interact more with my Fairy. I keep imagining this system that's like XII or XIII where we work on the Fairy's AI before content for her to fulfill different roles depending on the situation, and maybe like in XIII we can switch her to a "DPS Mode" just like the Schemata system. So then she starts buffing people or throwing little DOTs of herself, and then we switch back to Heal Mode when the situation calls for it... or something, I dunno. There was this time on a regular dungeon where I died to something the boss did, and I don't quite remember what it was, but what I remember is that the Warrior couldn't care less if I was alive or not. He solo healed himself and the party cleared the boss, which is great but... it also isn't. I shrugged it off at the time, but it's hardly an isolated case. And again: I enjoy SCH as is, but something is just off when these situations are becoming more common.

Joy. Now we're going to have to deal with SE making judgements on the game because of midcore players taking the actions of top tier players who are playing the highest tier of combat duties as law.

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Originally Posted by Troxbark

Then they just give other roles more self sustain. That's what got healers in this situation to begin with, lol.

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Yeah OK EW baby the issues began long before tank buffs

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

Just quit healing, play a DPS.

Nothing's gonna get done if SE thinks people still like playing healers

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Honestly from my position, that's pretty much what happened in Savage at least. All the hardcore healers I know from way back have quit/switched at this point.

This game still has enough new people coming in that they just get replaced by the next wave.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Honestly from my position, that's pretty much what happened in Savage at least. All the hardcore healers I know from way back have quit/switched at this point.

This game still has enough new people coming in that they just get replaced by the next wave.

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I healed 5.4, played tank for 6.0 then played healer again in 6.2

All i can say, is never expect me to play healer again.
It is the most boring, unrewarding role in the game.

Oh you are doing a lot of damage? Well not anymore, two DPS just screwed up and its your job to babysit them while they take 150k bleed damage over 15 seconds.

Even pressing LB3 as a healer feels bad, because you know the only reason your group is clearing a fight is because YOU did the mechanics right, and they all greeded and died, yet your still not getting rewarded for that, Gear goes to the DPS and Tanks, even if you are the reason they cleared.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Joy. Now we're going to have to deal with SE making judgements on the game because of midcore players taking the actions of top tier players who are playing the highest tier of combat duties as law.

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Well you don't have to be a top tier player to replace the healer role in easier content.

It doesn't happen commonly because the duty finder needs healers to pop and people are just too lazy to build their own groups without a healer or just one for 8-man content.

The entire healing system is in dire need of a rework...

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Originally Posted by Tint

Well you don't have to be a top tier player to replace the healer role in easier content.

It doesn't happen commonly because the duty finder needs healers to pop and people are just too lazy to build their own groups without a healer or just one for 8-man content.

The entire healing system is in dire need of a rework...

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Not really denying that, just more so denying that this should be used as evidence. From what most people have explained, the game tries to force you to use a healer in TOP and they found a really inconvenient strategy around that just to do it for fun and to see if they could?

It doesn't speak for the entire game really. I am in agreement that healers need a rework though.

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Originally Posted by Troxbark

Then they just give other roles more self sustain. That's what got healers in this situation to begin with, lol.

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no this has been a complaint about the healers since 2.0 honestly. they keep taking things that give healers utility besides healing. they took the haste and such away from scholars with the faries. They took WHMs AOE dot away. before 5.0 healers weren't perfect but they were fun to play and it felt like you matter as you brought more to the table. Now this shows healers are not needed and that's bad. I really don't touch the healer jobs anymore and i haven't played in a bit and yes I realize its main class whm im lazy to update here.XD

The majority of players are not that experienced and organized.
So yes - healers are still needed.

Yeah because a no life group is a good reflection for the whole community ^^

Looking forward to seeing all the complainers in this thread posting their healer-less Ultimate clears and the comps they use to get them. It wouldn't be very compelling evidence if they just copy Casual Player's group comp after all. I'm sure all the DRK, GNB, NIN, DRG, SAM, BRD, MCH and BLM players want their healer-less clears as well.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

Now this shows healers are not needed and that's bad.

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No, it doesn't. The fearmongering isn't needed. You've got a single group of some of the very best players in the world pulling off something using a very specific comp that 99.9% of the player base will never be able to duplicate. Healers don't need to worry that they're out of a job.

The concerns that healing needs a redesign are valid but this one outlier doesn't really contribute to that discussion.

Let X be a bounded distribution and denote m = E[X]. Suppose that sup(X), the (lowest) upper bound of X, is always twice the average, i.e. sup(X) = 2m.

Suppose we observe that sup(X_1) = 75 and sup(X_2) = 50.

Conclude that m_1 = m_2 by using the unassailable FF14 Official Forums logic. (50 points)

Bonus:

In a short 2-page paper, explain why the median forum non-raider understands Ultimate and Savage healing better than Ultimate raiders.

I wonder if it's been done without tanks or dps. If it hasn't, healers are getting screwed.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

All i can say, is never expect me to play healer again.
It is the most boring, unrewarding role in the game.

Oh you are doing a lot of damage? Well not anymore, two DPS just screwed up and its your job to babysit them while they take 150k bleed damage over 15 seconds.

Even pressing LB3 as a healer feels bad, because you know the only reason your group is clearing a fight is because YOU did the mechanics right, and they all greeded and died, yet your still not getting rewarded for that, Gear goes to the DPS and Tanks, even if you are the reason they cleared.

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Those are really good points. :eek:

At this point just delete healers and give all jobs decent self heal.

Specific content cleared with a specific group composition by top, experienced and coordinated players who spent countless hours practicing that fight is not reflective of the reality one would find in a normal PF or DF.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

At this point just delete healers and give all jobs decent self heal.

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Like they did with PvP?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I wonder if it's been done without tanks or dps. If it hasn't, healers are getting screwed.

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Its only healers, tanks have to tank LB and TB mechanics that force their existence and the dps checks in TOP are tight enough that removing dps is out of the question. In the end this is only a very impressive example of how fucked the role really is. We get the kit butchered for healing tools whose use is not a requirement even in the hardest content, as proven by all the 1-0 healer clears that happen in all the content regardless of difficulty, all while the devs give dismissive and out of touch answers like the "go play ultimate".

The devs already know there is no satisfying everyone so they don’t even try. It’s good they don’t. I’m pretty sure if next expansion they gave healers mains everything they been asking for there will be people still complaining about something. The devs just can’t win.

These kinda post are so redundant now.

The real healer is Warrior and Paladin :)

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

Specific content cleared with a specific group composition by top, experienced and coordinated players who spent countless hours practicing that fight is not reflective of the reality of what one would find in a normal PF or DF.

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Doesn't excuse the fact that the hardest content in the game should not be clearable without healers. It shows an entire role is completely disposable in all facets of the game.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Like they did with PvP?

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Exactly.

Give DDs decent self heal, give healers a proper dps rotation and rebrand them as support dps jobs. Easiest way to solve the healer issue.

Regardless of whether or not this specifically is good evidence- the fact that 0-1 healer clear parties for all manner of content are frequently run via PF should be indicative of a problem. Healing is boring at the casual end, you can easily space out in dungeons (me). Healing is also easy at the harder end, my static's healers do 1 healer runs, or just get extremely bored once we finish prog. I've mained support in a lot of other games, so I know support/healer roles can be interesting in video games. This isn't really about catering to the 1%, its about giving the healers more fun toys to play with that they can choose to use or not.

I am probably the world's worst melee, I have no idea what is going on with that role, but I can still do dungeon content on them fine! Dragon kick has a neat animation and that's good enough for me. But, if monks for some reason wanted all their positionals back and some other changes, I'd probably trust them that it was a better player experience for them (likely a bad example). That doesn't affect my casual experience at all.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Exactly.

Give DDs decent self heal, give healers a proper dps rotation and rebrand them as support dps jobs. Easiest way to solve the healer issue.

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If healers cannot outdamage Damage Dealers, contents clearable without healers are still clearable without healers.

Giving healers engaging damage tools doesn't solve the issue entirely

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

I rarely (if ever) get into the whole Healer convo because I really enjoy SCH as is, but... if this isn't a red flag, I don't know what is https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/56e9...e5287e/1x.webp

Something definitely is broken if this is possible to do at all.

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Its not broken. Because somebody can do it doesnt mean, its a rule. They have very specific comp with well planed mitigation and healing sheet (Like... how many times have you seen DNC using his heal to help the party lol).

UCoB can be done with over 100 deaths if very well planed. Does that mean you can have that many deaths in normal kill scenario? Absolutelly not.

Is something broken? No. Just the raid design nowadays is big raid wides and then a big pause with no damage at all. 99% of groups still cant clear these duties with even only 1 healer tho.

Would I want more fun spothealing, esuning, healerchecks etc etc content in hi-end? Yeah. 100%. But this clear still proves nothing about healers being useless (Except dungeons. My bloodwhetting goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR).