Crafting Economy Update Request

I'd like an update to the economy system in FFXIV. Currently, the only profitable way to make gil via crafting and gathering is to use the Market Board. Many materials sell for 1-16 gil and I feel that it is not enough for a base profit when the material costs 200-300 at an NPC. Selling at an NPC should provide enough gil on its own to make it a viable way to make gil, though it should not be as viable as selling on the Market Board or running the various activities like maps and roulettes to prevent killing the player to player economy.

What I propose is this: If an NPC sells an item/material, you should be able to sell the same item back for 2/3rd of the price they sell for, rounded to the nearest gil. If you sell a high quality item to an NPC, it would be reasonable to sell to the NPC for the same price they charge for it though 3/4th of the price would also be reasonable, again rounded to the nearest gil. There are certain jobs getting left behind in terms of selling due to how the supply and demand is in the game so making a change like this would help those jobs being worthwhile in terms of a financial perspective.

My suggestion for the profit of gathered materials that are not sold by an NPC would be a price range based on level of material and rarity. Timed materials sell for the most, hidden materials below that and regular materials sell for the base amount. The system in Island Sanctuary would be interesting as a base as well where there is a, from what I understand, randomized simulation of supply and demand.

The goal of these changes, again, is to provide a base profit that will make it worthwhile economically to gather materials outside of what the player to player economy is offering. This would affect prices on the Market Board by keeping them above a certain price, but the crafters and gatherers aren't relying on it to make a decent profit.

We don't need more ways to generate gil.



This is a bad idea.

The in game economy is almost entirely player driven. I doubt SE would want to butt into it this far into the games cycle.
Also there is another way to make gil for crafters via leve quests. But considering SE just nerfed the leve quests from last expansion because it was generating too much gil, I doubt they would want to add more money making methods.
Personally, I don't think there's any issues with the in game economy.

Like it or not Valkyrie, gil is mandatory for many activities. Many mounts cost gil, houses cost gil, teleportation cost gil, gear costs gil, raiding costs gill, etc. There are ways around it but for most people gil is necessary. This wouldn't be the most efficient way of making it so why do you think it's a bad idea?

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Originally Posted by SomeoneElse

Like it or not, gil is mandatory for many activities. Many mounts cost gil, houses cost gil, teleportation cost gil, gear costs gil, raiding costs gill, etc. There are ways around it but for most people gil is necessary. This wouldn't be the most efficient way of making it so why do you think it's a bad idea?

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Because it generates gil from nothing. The player driven economy takes gil from other players and doesn't create new gil.

What this would do is drive costs through the roof for market board items, as gil is created from nothing when items are npcs.


It already generates too much. I've gained something like 40 mil in the last year doing nothing but play the game. No market board selling. I have 140 mil and nothing to spend it on because the housing lottery is terrible, teleports cost me nothing because of farmable aetheryte tickets, the gil mounts are hideous, and I can make my own crafted gear when I need to.

It would drive some things through the roof depending on how many are supplying. Materia is a good example of something that sells for a decent price naturally and also sells on the Market Board for a good price as well excluding new raid patch days, and there are times where people try to sell for below what NPCs will buy them for. Generating gil for nothing isn't necessarily true though, as you're giving up time to obtain the materials.

They need a junk NPC that has a box/bag like Materiel Container from GC. It would reduce the amount of stuff on MB.



To the OP crafting really isn't the way to make gil. Do the challenge log, daily/weekly hunts, maps. If you are trying to use MB to make gil you will probably be disappointed. You are competing with bots, no lifers, and rmt. You can make money but it is way less stressful using all the gil influx methods.

Sounds like a mighty fine way for botters to easily generate more gil to then sell back to the player base lol. Selling prices are perfectly fine. If players need gil, there are a multitude of ways.

I would have just edited my last comment but I dunno how to edit via mobile.
We already have a surplus of Gil in the game. SE has demonstrated and have also told us that they want to reduce that. We saw that already in effect with leves getting nerfed, tp costs increasing an Gil mounts being added.

It's the most profitable way when it comes to time spent but it's not necessarily the most enjoyable way unless you like putting on a Spotify playlist and farming for things. Daily/Weekly hunts are fairly quick and more enjoyable in my opinion but crafting gives a greater ceiling for what you can earn. Market Board being......well...stressful as you put it is a very true thing, sadly. I wish it were different.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I would have just edited my last comment but I dunno how to edit via mobile.
We already have a surplus of Gil in the game. SE has demonstrated and have also told us that they want to reduce that. We saw that already in effect with leves getting nerfed, tp costs increasing an Gil mounts being added.

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Can't believe I just figured out how to reply with a quote. I like the idea of gil mounts, personally. It gives a reason to make a lot of gil and gives the billionaires something to spend it on. There shouldn't be a ton of them, but a few is rather nice.

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Originally Posted by SomeoneElse

Can't believe I just figured out how to reply with a quote. I like the idea of gil mounts, personally. It gives a reason to make a lot of gil and gives the billionaires something to spend it on. There shouldn't be a ton of them, but a few is rather nice.

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Hooray for learning something new!!
As a mount farmer, I agree. But I also just want all the mounts!

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

Hooray for learning something new!!
As a mount farmer, I agree. But I also just want all the mounts!

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In a perfect world you wouldn't run out of mounts to farm. It's like Triple Triad cards. There's too many and they're all pull-your-hair-out frustrating to obtain, but once you do you look at your collection like "Well....now what?"

The only thing this does is drop the value of gil and creating artificial inflation.

And potentially a market for bots.

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Originally Posted by VirusOnline

The only thing this does is drop the value of gil and creating artificial inflation.

And potentially a market for bots.

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bots already pretty much run the market board lol

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

bots already pretty much run the market board lol

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Of course they do lol, but not just the mb. They'd just sell to the vendors. Free gil.

*cries in Doman Enclave*

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

bots already pretty much run the market board lol

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^^This. A base price would at least combat it somewhat. Inflation would occur if the cost of items to purchase goes up, which has already been happening each expansion.

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Originally Posted by SomeoneElse

Like it or not Valkyrie, gil is mandatory for many activities. Many mounts cost gil, houses cost gil, teleportation cost gil, gear costs gil, raiding costs gill, etc. There are ways around it but for most people gil is necessary. This wouldn't be the most efficient way of making it so why do you think it's a bad idea?

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The only thing in your list that actually requires Gil is a house.

If you want to make mad gil the boat is already over. It was called ARR/HW, when there were maybe like only a few pentamelded omnicrafters on every server who can hack Rath's rotation (which isn't hard but that is already a huge barrier to entry). It was also kind of a pyramid scheme since it relied on crafters selling Ironworks gear or materias to aspiring crafters.....

If you want to make gil now, just pentameld your crafters and craft endgame gear during week 1, and forget about it after.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

The only thing in your list that actually requires Gil is a house.

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Right, that's why I said "There are ways around it". Teleportation can use tickets, crafting can make the food and tinctures for savage/ultimate along with gear, mounts do require gil for some but not all. Gil just makes those examples substantially easier and quicker to obtain.

Only way it could work if it worked like RuneScape with it's npc traders. You can't have a single click generating 200+ gil out of nothing.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Only way it could work if it worked like RuneScape with it's npc traders. You can't have a single click generating 200+ gil out of nothing.

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Hmm....I'm not familiar with Runescape but what about only crafted items sell for decent gil?

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Originally Posted by SomeoneElse

Hmm....I'm not familiar with Runescape but what about only crafted items sell for decent gil?

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If a vendor has zero it'll sell high but each one lowers it's sell price and if it has a too many, it will either sell for one if at all. Like if a high level ore, the first one will sell for as an example 1,600. Then 1500,1423,1333,1200,1112... All the way down to 1 each

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

If a vendor has zero it'll sell high but each one lowers it's sell price and if it has a too many, it will either sell for one if at all. Like if a high level ore, the first one will sell for as an example 1,600. Then 1500,1423,1333,1200,1112... All the way down to 1 each

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I like that system. I played a game called Elite Dangerous a few years ago and they have a similar system. Since it's much more complex though and, at this point in the game, would probably be a nightmare to implement I didn't want to suggest a major foundational change like that. If it were possible though I'd love to have that in the game or in FFXIV 2 when the inevitable sequel gets released.

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Originally Posted by SomeoneElse

I like that system. I played a game called Elite Dangerous a few years ago and they have a similar system. Since it's much more complex though and, at this point in the game, would probably be a nightmare to implement I didn't want to suggest a major foundational change like that. If it were possible though I'd love to have that in the game or in FFXIV 2 when the inevitable sequel gets released.

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It also has the grand Bazaar. Functionally similar to the market board but in only one location. Works across all the worlds like 200+ and has daily price ranges. When you sell, you set a minimum price order. Buyers set a maximum price order. It allows for partial order so multiple people can fill large orders, either selling or buying. It fills the buy order by lowest price available up to their maximum or until their quantity requested is filled. Or reversed if there's low stock with the sellers order. And no one can see any listed orders from other players.

Generating gil is substantially different than selling something, which sounds weird initially but when we had the whole gil bot FATE parties of 1.0 and then the Atomos potion dumping... there was a reason why housing prices were suggested to be higher on legacy servers lol. We bought the banks XD.

Aside from the whole economics of it... I wonder how abuse-able / useful a "just sell this for me" option would be to players. By that I mean akin to how WoW handles their token in the AH or Diablo 3 with gems when it had an AH, the game would just be responsible to handle the player to player element (gil is not generated). My concern is if the item doesn't have enough traction that it would be possible to manipulate; however, it is already possible to manipulate the market so.. maybe it's just a silly concern lol. Game estimates the sell price, gives you a range it'll sell within, gets back to you once it's done it (that means a player bought it, and naturally the game skims a bit off the top as a sink).

Personally I find fiddling with the market a bit tiresome, because you have people who watch the markets like a hawk and 1 gil you.. though I do also use the markets to make gil fairly passively so :/.. win some you lose some.. I will usually set my price to the same as the lowest person unless its so low that I buy theirs and then set both of mine to the same price :3. That was one nice element in FFXI where you couldn't really see the exact price.. though I didn't really love the buying side since you'd just be guessing too.. and people with patience would start really low and move their way up. On the other side of the whole undercutting was in WoW you had to pay to put an item up for sell so people would be far less likely to adjust their prices repeatedly.

Portions of this belong in the relic thread but talks of how tomestones right away was a bit sudden, and imagined using Gold Saucer (maybe tomes) and like Bicolor gems as another suggested as one method... but given the context of the relic.. I feel it wouldn't be too weird either if you could get rare trade-able materials that could skip large portions of the grind but not only did you have to buy these rare materials, as people would sell some due to their rarity, but there also might be some sort of cost too (like a smithing cost by the NPC that's pure gil sink). Pay at the market, pay at the npc. Rather than tomes it's like... "would you like a step in the relic questline for 10 million gil?" :p.

As we're on the talk of gil sinks, another might be the gear we get that is color locked but unlocked in harder content perhaps can also be unlocked via fairly spend-y crafts / materials that players can sell (or buy from npcs via gil). May not come with the stats to leave that with the content it originated from, unless this is added after the content is older, but you could color it right away. Make it worth even more gil by giving it a secondary color channel (change the color of say the trim separately from the body, or the sfx separately), blow some players minds lol. Alternatively, and maybe a little contentious, but a special item that removes the untradeable / sellable from specific content gear.... Meaning players could go into those harder contents and bring out their special rewards and sell them after applying a fairly costly unlock (will permanently lock once soulbound)- still stop this from working on 'current' content but could be activated during the expansion it was released in.

There should be a penalty for crafting something of new value to the player. If someone is leveling a crafter from scratch and decides to synth 100 iron hammers (because all of the materials are readily available from an NPC) - the server doesn't need 100 iron hammers. The sale price should be negligible, as it is today. Sometimes, an activity like crafting should be a pure gil for experience trade, especially if crafting something no one needs.

Always felt we could do for an npc market if anything, the original idea was for just fish (beyond turns in, aquariums, and achievements there really nothing to do with them) but guess it could work with any gather/craft. Basically the market has a few daily and/or weekly item demands that you can sell to them, the prices drops the more you sell till its no longer in demand kind of deal.

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Originally Posted by Bsrking5

Only way it could work if it worked like RuneScape with it's npc traders. You can't have a single click generating 200+ gil out of nothing.

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The only reason it worked in runescape was because the resource generation itself was limited. Here a mining node can be used by all players without any issue. But in RS, it was first come first serve. And just like WoW, it promotes botting massively. Such system would kill the entire DoL class in this game.

Yet that system is what drives the economy in runescape. If resources were as infinite as in this game, bots would drive the price of any item to 1. Its only because the gathering nodes in RS had limited supply, that there was a point where adding more bots had no positive income effect anymore. And that simply decided how valuable an item was.

Dont you remember the 30 bots chasing the trees to cut them down? Initialy you could at least move towards the next node before it spawned (as it was static and the bots only reacted upon its spawn), but at some points the bots also moved ahead. So you barely had any chance to gather anything.

I dont want that system in FF.

And even if only the vendor system is taken over, bots will just use this and sell overnight for higher gil values, while during the day prices get pushed down further. A player cannot check a vendor every minute and wait for a 1% gil increase (up to a fixed treshold).

Runescape was significantly worse in market botting behaviour than what this game is facing now. And while it might appear less of a problem in this game, dont expect any improvements. If a vendor is profitable to sell to, that vendor will be botted to oblivion.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

The only reason it worked in runescape was because the resource generation itself was limited. Here a mining node can be used by all players without any issue. But in RS, it was first come first serve. And just like WoW, it promotes botting massively. Such system would kill the entire DoL class in this game.

Yet that system is what drives the economy in runescape. If resources were as infinite as in this game, bots would drive the price of any item to 1. Its only because the gathering nodes in RS had limited supply, that there was a point where adding more bots had no positive income effect anymore. And that simply decided how valuable an item was.

Dont you remember the 30 bots chasing the trees to cut them down? Initialy you could at least move towards the next node before it spawned (as it was static and the bots only reacted upon its spawn), but at some points the bots also moved ahead. So you barely had any chance to gather anything.

I dont want that system in FF.

And even if only the vendor system is taken over, bots will just use this and sell overnight for higher gil values, while during the day prices get pushed down further. A player cannot check a vendor every minute and wait for a 1% gil increase (up to a fixed treshold).

Runescape was significantly worse in market botting behaviour than what this game is facing now. And while it might appear less of a problem in this game, dont expect any improvements. If a vendor is profitable to sell to, that vendor will be botted to oblivion.

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Actually, yeah I do remember those. And I remember the utter storm that happened when they turned player to player trading back on. And it's a significantly more simple game which makes combating bots difficult. Something to also note is that tree nodes above the basic one has multiple logs before depletion like yew tree in the free to play always hotspots. And then they have fishing spots that just move occasionally and have unlimited fish, yet there's a market for it and the cooked versions.

The biggest difference is resources generation. Higher skill is faster for the same thing. If you going after something you just unlocked it'll take a lot longer then something you are over leveled for. Mining coal at the unlock level is about one every 15 seconds but at level 70 you are more slowed by getting to node then actually mining the node. In 14 the speed of getting any gathering resource is largely based on traveling time of node to node. This actually helps bot surpass normal players with ease. Also the exp curve is exponential in rs and 14 is mostly flat and linear.

I disagree, you don't want communities to become over-reliant on the ability to generate Gil from the server, most especially with crafting and gathering. With your proposal, the amount of Gil that you could simply generate from the servers by selling items at 3/4 their price, especially if 'item' in this case refers to the ability to sell gear also.