Scholar Please Remove

(Edit: I made new Forum post, lol seems many didn't like this one)

>(Im sick of having to carry this Dead job in content plz stop playing it!)

https://i.postimg.cc/64tjhGC5/descarga.jpg

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Originally Posted by deston07

SE knows no one would play White Mage or Astro if Scholar was actually good.

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You did it, you cracked the code. SE is keeping SCH nerfed to... Keep people from playing active healers... A totally different sub-role with a (well, for the modern 2 minute meta) different gameplay loop (i.e. reacting as opposed to pro-acting)

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Originally Posted by deston07

Why Anyone plays Scholar I really can not understand
Times that it is good:
- Top 1% of play
- Level 30 -> 70 Dungeons (so you can pick up Sage)
Times it is bad:
- Any form of casual play
- PVP
- Savage/Ult (forces other healers to carry)

Why is it Bad?
-Lack of useful Mitigation!!
-Forces use of Healing resources for damage
-Lack of useful off-global cooldowns

What would make it better?
-Energy Drain - No Aetherflow cost - 2 charges Cool Down
- Add -second Damage over Time - Off Global - gives 10 fairy guage
-Sacred Soil - Applies Mitigation buff that isn't removed after stepping out of the affected area.

SE knows no one would play White Mage or Astro if Scholar was actually good.
Ether Sage is good or Scholar is good it can't be both, obviously they will pick the new job.
So there is literally no point in Scholar other than the (top 1-5%) for Damage buff.
(Im sick of having to carry this Dead job in content plz stop playing it!)

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I main SCH, I can say.............hmm. There is some glaring issues with the job that make ppl say SGE is the better shield healer...on top of better DPS tools. Yeah, I can agree with you on the lack of mitigation, particularly Fey Illumination. Not every attack when it comes to savage or ultimate does only magic dmg and that needs to be change to dmg reduction. I end up comparing it to Holos and it needs an adjustment. Energy Drain is.......just there. Just a waste of a button at this point. The HP recovery on yourself isn't worth it and the gauge cost up will end up getting you to get past 100 too quickly. They may as well just get rid of it altogether. Sacred Soil....I can't see much of an issue with it. Depending on situation, SGE's version is great on the move, SCH version is great when a big hit is coming and ppl will know to get in the field before it does so it has their pros/cons. I don't think it needs another DoT tool, just another utility tool like Chain Stratagem for crits, but more on a AoE for the party. Was considering attack speed to be the thing, but I consider other players and might mess up their rotation so consider direct hit up for the party during bursts. While SGE have many DPS tools, SCH have many utility tools to benefit the party.

The more I play SCH, the more I see it as more support/shield healer so I was thinking of giving SCH a bigger shield to benefit the party, more mitigation.....which was given to SGE, re-work the fairy gauge/aetherpact because it's trash. More rate % tools. Oh yeah, forgot Dissipation. That needs a re-work as well. Idk how they are going to do it, but they need to do something.

Slow day today it seems.

Wait...what?

No, seriously...what?

I mean, I agree with you on Energy Drain...but not really anything else.

SCH isn't perfect - no Job is - but it's entirely fine. Heck, you say it's bad in casual content? Eos can solo casual content (low level dungeons) for you. SCH has some of the most expansive mitigation toolkit of all the Healer Jobs. SCH is arguably the best Healer Job in the sense of having an answer to basically any situation. While AST can hard carry a LITTLE better in a super high end coordinated group, SCH is quite powerful itself.

Why stop there? delete the entire healer role, it's worthless as is. Especially sage, that's a poor imitation of the superior scholar.

Energy drain is the only interesting healer mechanic as it has twofold opportunity costs, first the obvious one and second with dissipation. Lilies and adderrgall manage to be a condensed version of the bad part of aetherflow management ie that they need to be burnt for optimal play even if the healing is unnecessary.

Scholar is also pretty much a guaranteed pick for high end content because it has access to flexible mitigation, a totem heal, a raid buff and despite repeated nerfs has been the king of the healers since ARR.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

>(Im sick of having to carry this Dead job in content plz stop playing it!)

https://i.postimg.cc/64tjhGC5/descarga.jpg

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So low quality that catfish won't even touch it (they'll eat anything).

(This post is mostly over the top honestly) But..
Currently I main Sage/WHM
In Shadow Bringers my main was Scholar,
I just hate how useless it feels now in Harder content, especially compared to sage.
My static is currently trying to get a new healer, the majority have been scholars.
It has been panful to heal with most scholars compared to sage.

Many brings up FFLogs, but few seem to realize that scholars doing good damage opt for damage, while scholars that do good Healing opt for healing.
It is almost impossible for a Scholar to do good damage And healing.
scholars generally go for damage rather than healing, because you are more likely to be kicked from PF's for a lack of damage than lack of healing.
Most groups don't even look at healing (ACT)

Most of the community seems to underestimate the importance of mitigation.
Sage is good because it can constant 10% Mitigation + heal over time.
For big AOE's they can put out 30% mitigation. <- (Edit: 20%)

Scholar mitigation leaves a lot to be desired, If scholar even saves Aetherflow to use sacred soil. Most in PF do not use Aetherflow for healing at all.

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Originally Posted by deston07

- Savage/Ult (forces other healers to carry)

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It's the highest DPS healer in Abyssos and the most picked healer in DSR. If anything, SCH carries its cohealer.

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Why is it Bad?
-Lack of useful Mitigation!!
-Forces use of Healing resources for damage
-Lack of useful off-global cooldowns

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First is entirely untrue, SCH has the best mitigation in the game - so much so that SGE's Holos has to be buffed because SCH was superior to SGE. SGE still cannot match a spread Critlo.
Second doesn't force anything, there's not enough to heal.
Third is also entirely untrue. SCH's oGCDs are busted, Recitation, Expedient, Sacred Soil, etc.

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What would make it better?
-Energy Drain - No Aetherflow cost - 2 charges Cool Down
- Add -second Damage over Time - Off Global - gives 10 fairy guage
-Sacred Soil - Applies Mitigation buff that isn't removed after stepping out of the affected area.

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The first two of these would suck. oGCD damage that interacts with nothing is boring. No thank you.
Sacred Soil's mitigation extends for an entire tick after its effect goes away, making both the 10% mitigation 18s at full value and the Regen longer than Kerachole's as the Regen tick applies immediately for an additional tick over Sage's.

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Most of the community seems to underestimate the importance of mitigation. Scholar mitigation leaves a lot to be desired

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No offense, but this is ironic. You don't seem to understand Scholar's kit at all and it shows by what you're writing here.

Whilst I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that SCH's kit is a mess, there's no denying it's effectiveness.

It's not about being the 1%, it's about simply understanding the cooldowns and knowing how to roll them effectively. If you are leaning on Succor then you're simply playing the job wrong.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

It's the highest DPS healer in Abyssos and the most picked healer in DSR. If anything, SCH carries its cohealer.

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It is certainly not top damage in FFlogs, For any of Abyssos.
Secondly, that is the whole point you ether heal or damage Scholar can't do both in the same fight.
You almost have to give up one or the other, so yes Scholar in statistics keeps up with healing, and damage
However, the Scholars parsing Damage are not healing, and the scholars parsing Healing are not doing damage.
While any other healer does not have to give up so much for one or the other.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

SCH has the best mitigation in the game

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At most it has 25% assuming your raid team can stand in one spot, 20% if it is physical damage.
While Sage can put out 30% that has no requirement of placement on the arena, or damage type.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

Third is also entirely untrue. SCH's oGCDs are busted, Recitation, Expedient, Sacred Soil, etc.

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I didn't say it doesn't have oGCD's, but the few that it does have are ether part of the Aetherflow guage or fairy.
How exactly does Scholar burst work?..... Burn Aetherflow for Energy drain, Eat Fairy for Aetherflow charges burn more Energy drain.
so for a large majority of their burst, they do not have oGCD's.
This is how the majority of PF scholars play, and it is pain for co-healers.
not saying it is the right way to play but you are more likely to be kicked for low damage than low healing in PF.

Shields Are not mitigation

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Originally Posted by deston07

It is certainly not top damage in FFlogs, For any of Abyssos.
Secondly, that is the whole point you ether heal or damage Scholar can't do both in the same fight.
You almost have to give up one or the other, so yes Scholar in statistics keeps up with healing, and damage
However, the Scholars parsing Damage are not healing, and the scholars parsing Healing are not doing damage.
While any other healer does not have to give up so much for one or the other.

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https://files.catbox.moe/iflj58.PNG

Yes, it is? And like I also said, it's the most chosen healer for DSR, a mitigation intensive encounter - why do you think that is if SGE is superior at mitigation over SCH? (Hint: It's not!)
And no, you don't have to. In extremely optimized settings Energy Drain accounts for around 5% of a Scholar's damage. Scholar overwhelmingly gets more rDPS from Chain than it does Energy Drain. It's not an issue.

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I didn't say it doesn't have oGCD's, but the few that it does have are ether part of the Aetherflow guage or fairy.
How exactly does Scholar burst work?..... Burn Aetherflow for Energy drain, Eat Fairy for Aetherflow charges burn more Energy drain.
so for a large majority of their burst, they do not have oGCD's.
This is how the majority of PF scholars play, and it is pain for co-healers.
not saying it is the right way to play but you are more likely to be kicked for low damage than low healing in PF.

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Again, you're just saying to me that you really don't understand Scholar's kit at all. SCH has the most amount of oGCDs to GCDs of any job in the game; if a Scholar is doing low damage it's because they are not keeping their GCD rolling, and using Energy Drain more will not make up for that. The rank 1 log in P8S for SCH is not using every bit of Aetherflow on Energy Drain, and gets a lot of healing usage out of their Aetherflow.
I'm sorry you've played with bad PF Scholars; just block them from joining if it's such an issue? Personally speaking I would much rather have a SCH in my party than a WHM or a SGE, those two jobs have had the bulk majority of terrible players in my experiences in PF.

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Shields Are not mitigation

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LMAO

I am struggling to understand why you aren’t discussing this with the cohealer in question- “the tank died to autos,” “healing on NA2 is kind of tight, could you do x there to help?” And so on. It’s not necessary, but you could also quite easily knock up a healing and mitigation plan, and make sure the dps know that they’re meant to be using disassemble/shield samba/addle at whatever points.

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Originally Posted by deston07

At most it has 25% assuming your raid team can stand in one spot, 20% if it is physical damage.
While Sage can put out 30% that has no requirement of placement on the arena, or damage type.

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Can I just ask, how are you getting 30% on SGE

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Can I just ask, how are you getting 30% on SGE

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10%x3 except that’s overstating it since they’re multiplicative not additive.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

it's the most chosen healer for DSR

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Yes As my original post stated top 1-5% of players.
specifically for Chain Stratagem - 10% Crit buff.
Not Mitigation

Shields = More HP
Mitigation = Hit for less damage

150k Damage attack is still going to hit for 150k Shielded, but eats 150k of the shield then into HP.
150k damage attack mitigated by 10% is going to hit for 135k,
Mitigation Also mitigates how much damage Shields take as well, so you could prevent the shield from even been dropped off in the first place.



https://files.catbox.moe/yclt0c.png
I didn't say it was the worst At healing or Damage, but it certainly can't do both.

https://files.catbox.moe/5k30ly.png
^Damage
https://files.catbox.moe/sa512s.png
^Healing
That Astro is totally not carrying the SCH in healing..
This is the top reported but you can continue to all the top SCH parses they are carried by another healer in the same way.
SCH and AST are High picks for their ability to boost everyone's damage.
not the core of what they should be doing.

Many SCH see all the High damage SCH's and try to replicate it by burning Aetherflow Gauge.
I don't think this is the right way to play, but it is how PF is playing SCH.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

10%x3 except that’s overstating it since they’re multiplicative not additive.

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Yes Exactly!
I messed up, I though Holo's was 20%

Holos + Kerachole -> 20% Mit + Shield + Heal over time
No requirement to stand in one place, once applied.

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Originally Posted by deston07

https://files.catbox.moe/5k30ly.png
^Damage
https://files.catbox.moe/sa512s.png
^Healing
That Astro is totally not carrying the SCH in healing..
This is the top reported but you can continue to all the top SCH parses they are carried by another healer in the same way.

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I think you're getting too caught up in the color on the left side. The healing between the two isn't that much different.

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Originally Posted by deston07;6225804
[IMG

https://files.catbox.moe/5k30ly.png[/IMG]
^Damage
https://files.catbox.moe/sa512s.png
^Healing
That Astro is totally not carrying the SCH in healing..
This is the top reported but you can continue to all the top SCH parses they are carried by another healer in the same way.

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So I looked up both of these healers and it looks like they are in a speedkill static together which means most of their healing/mitigation is very tightly optimized and not the best rep of regular players. They also have double DRK to ensure they have the most DPS pumped into their buffs.

The SCH themselves also didn't just use all their Aetherflow on just ED. In several of their logs I found, they used 3 Sacred Soils per raid. It also looks like they used 3 critlo deploys in one log so they aren't not GCD healing either. The AST isn't really pulling the most of the weight either. In one log, their only GCD heals seem to be 1 Aspected Benefic and 3 Aspected Helios casts. I would actually conclude the AST did more healing because they have more burst healing over time. So I don't think you can take this log to say the AST is carrying the SCH when it looks like they're putting in the same amount of effort.

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Originally Posted by deston07

Yes As my original post stated top 1-5% of players.
specifically for Chain Stratagem - 10% Crit buff.
Not Mitigation

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It is not taken into DSR for Chain; SCH is the LOWEST rDPS healer in DSR because DSR is an encounter where Scholar is specifically brought because of power its kit is in both healing and mitigation. SCH's dominance in DSR is why Holos received the buff it got, to put it closer in parity with Scholar because of how much better Scholar was in the encounter. You can even go look at the number 1 SGE log and see that their cohealer was a SCH with a grey damage parse of 2 with insanely higher healing and mitigation than the SGE - why do you think that is? But given the fact that you're trying to argue that shields are somehow not mitigation, I'm not really interested in continuing to respond to this, honestly. It is an exercise in futility.

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SCH and AST are High picks for their ability to boost everyone's damage.
not the core of what they should be doing.

Many SCH see all the High damage SCH's and try to replicate it by burning Aetherflow Gauge.
I don't think this is the right way to play, but it is how PF is playing SCH.

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Again I mean no offense, but if you're still doing P8S this late in the tier, especially in PF, the majority of people you get aren't going to be good. It has been 6+ months since these raids came out. The problem is not with Scholar's kit, just PF randos. Block SCH and AST from your parties if you have issues with them, this is entirely on you if you're going into an environment where you can choose who plays with you and then complaining about the jobs they play. Are you saying you have zero faults at all when it comes to healing? Like fulminating said earlier, communicate with your cohealer and tell them where you need resources allocated, especially in P8Sp2 where healing requirements are more intensive.

SCH ability to out heal any healer was not the argument I know that it can.
Scholar was my main until Endwalker,

You are missing the point entirely.
It can be played by the top 1-5% so it i is fine....

I am by no means a Hard core player, im fine with getting through content at an average pace.
For work i missed the first two months of this Tier.
Last Tier I cleared 1-4 much faster, P4S as Sage + SCH.

I am not unaware of how strong its healing or damage can be
but i am fully aware at how awful it is in unoptimized groups. (Average groups)
It wasn't as bad in ShB as it is now, or maybe with sage/WHM i fully see how unfun it is to play as/with.
SCH has to be carried one way or the other, while Sage can carry one way or the other.
Energy drain being connected to Aetherflow is the core reason for this.

They already gutted most of the point of fairy gauge
The original purpose of Energy drain being Aetherflow optimization..
They are certainly not going to give healers back damage spells, that would require effort of actually balancing healers.

I would rather them finish gutting SCH, put in a dot to make up for Energy drain missing damage.
Not using or being able to use Aetherflow for energy drain, = Average player friendly.
While still keeping the kit "HARD CORE" players are using.

How about a no?

People can stick to SGE if they hate EDs & communicating so much. And like Nizzi mentioned: block SCHs from your PF if you will. What you’re suggesting is akin to burning down the house to kill a tiny spider.

Saving this thread. This is exactly what I mean when I say,

"Scholar is really clunky to play and its kit is a mess"
"So anyway this is why we should decrease Scholar's interactivity and dramatically increase its power. Yeah it's one of the strongest healers in the game but it feels. So. Weak. *faints*"

Every time. You love to see it.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

What you’re suggesting is akin to burning down the house to kill a tiny spider.

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From my perspective it is more like, burning down the house to get rid of a ghost.

SE will continue to gut healers, just get it over with!
They have made it quite clear they want to simplify healers to reduce development/balance time.
If they remove SCH all together, it is one less healer they have to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Whilst I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that SCH's kit is a mess, there's no denying it's effectiveness.

It's not about being the 1%, it's about simply understanding the cooldowns and knowing how to roll them effectively. If you are leaning on Succor then you're simply playing the job wrong.

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Succor has it's place! Mostly with emergency tactics and when paired with a sage admittedly. You shouldn't need to touch it when cohealing with a WHM or AST

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Saving this thread. This is exactly what I mean when I say,

"Scholar is really clunky to play and its kit is a mess"
"So anyway this is why we should decrease Scholar's interactivity and dramatically increase its power. Yeah it's one of the strongest healers in the game but it feels. So. Weak. *faints*"

Every time. You love to see it.

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Technically strongest I think? It's hard to compare because both SCH and AST rely so heavily on raidbuffs for their damage contribution. AFAIK, Scholar ends up significantly behind WHM and SGE in weaker groups but in a coordinated group SCH and AST both shine extremely well.

Honestly I didn't have too much trouble figuring out SCH's kit personally. A lot of it is just planning/thinking ahead. Learning SGE was basically just going "Okay, everything I do on scholar is reversed here!" and then rocking content with it.

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Originally Posted by deston07

Holos + Kerachole -> 20% Mit + Shield + Heal over time
No requirement to stand in one place, once applied.

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Equally expedience + sacred soil -> 10%*10% mit + 3s longer hot + sprint. You also only need to have been in soil slightly before the damage comes out, there’s a server delay you can take advantage of. It should just about cover raidwide through tyrant’s unholy darkness 2 in p8s 2nd part for example.

Just roll the SCH back to Heavensward and people would literally cheer SE for the move. This 'pure healer' garbage is popular with only a very vocal, albeit limited number of people. It's mindless and lazy to insist we just spam 1 dps button for 40% of our gameplay. It was very lazy to delete Selene and just turn her into Eos. It was very lazy to homogenize the healing archetypes into 2 types for bAlAnCe...so over it.

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Originally Posted by Faidid

Just roll the SCH back to Heavensward and people would literally cheer SE for the move. This 'pure healer' garbage is popular with only a very vocal, albeit limited number of people. It's mindless and lazy to insist we just spam 1 dps button for 40% of our gameplay. It was very lazy to delete Selene and just turn her into Eos. It was very lazy to homogenize the healing archetypes into 2 types for bAlAnCe...so over it.

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How dare you!? Square Enix is a small indie company who can do no wrong and Yoshi P is a saint compared to those icky, nasty WoW devs! How dare you call our messiah lazy!?

But for real though, the way a lot of things have been treated in this game have been so half-arsed. Healer changes, lack of hats for Viera/Hrothgar, having gender locked races for two expansions, Hrothgar hairstyles sitting so god awfully on the head because of the slouch that everyone hates yet the team refuses to fix, Viera and Hrothgar still having limited access to hairstyles despite it being about four years since ShB released, pet jobs being gutted, phys ranged hanging onto that 1% diversity buff for dear life, melee being hard meta because boss hitboxes are the size of a football field, and I could go on and on. If the cultists could finally open their eyes and actually not react to valid criticism for a product we're paying a monthly sub for like rabid animals this game would see more improvement.

honestly only good thing about SGE is the gap closer, I'd much rather play the other 3.

Eos should automatically apply mitigation and healing to the party. Also she should follow the party in dungeons and cast Rescue on me if I fall behind because im alt-tabbed watching videos. Also Carbuncle should be there doing damage for me.