People who can't do AOE rotations in 70+ Content

Please stick to Squadrons, Duty Support, and Trust.

This is aimed at people who like to do single target rotations when people wall to wall for them. You're legitimately a detriment to the party.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Please stick to Squadrons, Duty Support, and Trust.

This is aimed at people who like to do single target rotations when people wall to wall for them. You're legitimately a detriment to the party.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

---

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations. Put your own group together so those of your ilk can stay together. I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations. Put your own group together so those of your ilk can stay together. I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you.

---

Thanks for your opinion. I'll still have mine. You can leave this thread. I won't miss you either.

What people should be doing and what they actually do are 2 separate things entirely. I would suggest keeping your expectations reasonably low (if not nonexistent) when queueing up through the DF.

I used to always feel like I was the only one doing any AoE for most of my years tanking dungeons. It would take a few minutes to aoe down every pack, yet I would kill them in a fraction of the time if I went as a DPS and burst all my aoe.

It feels a lot better now. I'm not sure why. Maybe because I went to Aether and mostly heal older dungeons now? Maybe tanks just do more aoe damage than they used to? There was a time when the only paladin aoe was Total Eclipse and before that we only had Circle of Scorn, now we have Confiteor and the entire blade of faith combo to destroy them with and Gunbreakers have a very powerful attack that erases their health as well.

They should do aoe, but dungeons are story content and a lot of the people who do it are just playing through the story and not trying to necessarily be good at the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

What people should be doing and what they actually do are 2 separate things entirely. I would suggest keeping your expectations reasonably low (if not nonexistent) when queueing up through the DF.

---

They are pretty low, trust me. Sometimes people are just beyond that depth to the point where I feel compelled to say something about it lol

I'm not even asking for the like the full gamut of your AoE abilities either. I'd be fine with someone spamming the first part of their AoE on repeat as opposed to going through their single target combo several times over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

Please stick to Squadrons, Duty Support, and Trust.

This is aimed at people who like to do single target rotations when people wall to wall for them. You're legitimately a detriment to the party.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

---

I had witnessed an alarming increase of this behavior late into Shadowbringers - and then again during Endwalker during the time when I still ran duty roulettes regularly. It is absolutely unacceptable to not know when to use AoE vs single target that late in the game, there is no excusing it. I would sooner run trusts than carry someone who doesn't grasp these fundamentals, because I don't want to be part of the reason that enabled them to cause problems for someone else later on down the line.

There has to be higher expectations for FFXIV players. "Normal" content is several steps below Easy Mode at this point in all aspects outside 8man raids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I had witnessed an alarming increase of this behavior late into Shadowbringers - and then again during Endwalker during the time when I still ran duty roulettes regularly. It is absolutely unacceptable to not know when to use AoE vs single target that late in the game, there is no excusing it. I would sooner run trusts than carry someone who doesn't grasp these fundamentals, because I don't want to be part of the reason that enabled them to cause problems for someone else later on down the line.

There has to be higher expectations for FFXIV players. "Normal" content is several steps below Easy Mode at this point in all aspects outside 8man raids.

---

Honestly, I couldn't have said it better myself.

This guy gets it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations. Put your own group together so those of your ilk can stay together. I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you.

---

I don't get this opinion. Outside of HW/SB dungeons, as well as trials throughout every section that don't have trusts and the fact that Trusts don't support multiple players...

What reason could you have for not satisfying the lowest expectations possible? It's not being elitist to expect it. It's just being a decent person at this point.

No ones saying they expect the DPS to be as high as humanly possible. Just please use your AoEs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations.

---

This is a gross mindset to have

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations. Put your own group together so those of your ilk can stay together. I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you.

---

Do you expect your tank to use tank stance? Or your healer to use heal spells? Do you expect someone to not be afk?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

This is a gross mindset to have

---

I normally don't agree with Reap but on this they are not wrong.

It happens in 90's too, prob more than you think.
I did an Alzadaal the other day for glam where my Reaper didn't do positionals AOE'd and still wore the 89 gear.
When I asked them to please AOE(politely) because the pulls lasted so long I burned through all my cd's they just ignored me >_<
I just left after the 1st boss ^^"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I normally don't agree with Reap but on this they are not wrong.

---

No, they are factually wrong. People should be expected to pull their weight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I normally don't agree with Reap but on this they are not wrong.

---

In team content it is fair to expect people to do their share of the work. If nobody AoEs on trash, the trash pulls will take between 4 and 6 times as long as they should. If only half the party is AoEing the trash pulls will take between 2 and 4 times as long as they should. This isn't even about expecting people to optimize; even just spamming everyone's most basic AoE combo will reduce the trash kill times to 1/4~1/3 the single target times. People should AoE.

Mao giggles when Mao sees tank pull wall to wall. Mao goes on major AoE burninating spree.

I hate the mindset of 'lower your expectations'. How about be a better player and a team player. If you're not working with your team go do Trusts, theres plenty of solo stuff for you to do.

Stop lowering the bar just because you're worried about hurting someones feelings. AoE is usually the lazier option for most classes too as a 1-2 combo, instead of 1-2-3 single.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

In team content it is fair to expect people to do their share of the work. If nobody AoEs on trash, the trash pulls will take between 4 and 6 times as long as they should. If only half the party is AoEing the trash pulls will take between 2 and 4 times as long as they should. This isn't even about expecting people to optimize; even just spamming everyone's most basic AoE combo will reduce the trash kill times to 1/4~1/3 the single target times. People should AoE.

---

Again, what people should be doing and what they actually do may be 2 separate things. Do I prefer that my party uses AoEs? Obviously. That sort of goes without saying. But when queueing up with random people, it is best to keep one's expectations close to zero as far as what they do or don't do. This game doesn't exactly promote better play in a lot of content when people are expected to drag other players across the finish line. The game should promote better play, but it simply doesn't. I'm just being a realist. lol

I used to expect people to have at least the basics of their job down by ShB content. After my third marauder in Pandaemonium, I no longer expect anything.

you all being toxic here i do more damage on a single target on a 5+ mob pull any ways. /s

It's a game that is now being squarely pivoted to attract casual players.

As much as we can bang our heads on the desk and beg people to 'git gud', SE want to make money, lots and lots of money, so the skill bar is set real, real low.

Expect mouth breathers, knuckle draggers, and people who have never played a multiplyer-game before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I had witnessed an alarming increase of this behavior late into Shadowbringers - and then again during Endwalker during the time when I still ran duty roulettes regularly. It is absolutely unacceptable to not know when to use AoE vs single target that late in the game, there is no excusing it. I would sooner run trusts than carry someone who doesn't grasp these fundamentals, because I don't want to be part of the reason that enabled them to cause problems for someone else later on down the line.

There has to be higher expectations for FFXIV players. "Normal" content is several steps below Easy Mode at this point in all aspects outside 8man raids.

---

Trusts are designed to be not as efficient as normal players should be to incentivize playing with other people.

When your group goes slower than the trust would have. . . . Well, that is a DPS problem, a YOU problem (collective you, not you personally). Their entire job is making things die relatively quickly.

And yes, leveling every job to 90 I've experienced that relatively frequently when I was leveling my tanks. Basically, see point 3 of my sig.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shibi

It's a game that is now being squarely pivoted to attract casual players.

As much as we can bang our heads on the desk and beg people to 'git gud', SE want to make money, lots and lots of money, so the skill bar is set real, real low.

Expect mouth breathers, knuckle draggers, and people who have never played a multiplyer-game before.

---

As a filthy casual myself, there's a difference between "casual" and "bad".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations. Put your own group together so those of your ilk can stay together. I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you.

---

Absolutely not. At 70+, you should know the basics of how your job works (barring sage and reaper obviously, but even still you should know what an AoE ability is if you CAN unlock those two jobs). Having the most basics of expectations is not wrong or mean or whatever, it's *expecting people in a group based game mode to contribute to the group and not make things harder for everyone*.

Also, lol @ "I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you." Absolutely lol. What a take.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Trusts are designed to be not as efficient as normal players should be to incentivize playing with other people.

When your group goes slower than the trust would have. . . . Well, that is a DPS problem, a YOU problem (collective you, not you personally). Their entire job is making things die relatively quickly.

And yes, leveling every job to 90 I've experienced that relatively frequently when I was leveling my tanks. Basically, see point 3 of my sig.

---

I agree. I don't mind having to heal, and I don't expect pitch-perfect robots.

But if you're a DPS that doesn't AoE or a tank that refuses to press cooldowns and makes me pull heals out of my ass just to keep up, how is that fair for me? "Because you queued up to play with them"? Alright, so if I decide next time that I just "don't want to heal" (or just outright can't) because I can't keep up with those tanks, it's fine, right? Because they didn't ask to queue up with me, and can't have any control over whether I can keep up with their mistakes or not. I'm not a robot either.

Why is it so okay for all those others to force me to waste my time and make an effort, when they themselves don't make one?

Because I have to respect how they play? I do respect how they play, but if I go to a chess match and my opponent insists on playing chess like one would play checkers, what else am I meant to think? I queued up for chess, not checkers. You can make all the mistakes you want on chess, that's fine, but checkers isn't the point of the game. And tolerating people doing that just makes the problem worse; it's troll logic.

It's a tank's job to press defensive cooldowns, it's a DPS's job to deal damage, and if there is healing in need (particularly if someone's gonna die from the lack of it), healers should be on the lookout. That's why it's called a "role". I'm not playing my role if I refuse to do it. I'm not playing the game, if that's the case.

Otherwise why do you think we have a "Tales from Duty Finder" thread going on? By those standards, those people are wrong in complaining. After all, they knew what they queued for, they should be expecting people to not do the bare minimum of dodging the bright orange things or bothering to DPS down mobs.

My old FC mate was right. If Square made a class with nothing but two buttons to press, people would still find a way to be bad at it. And from what I can tell, a lot of you would defend that.

I'm not saying I disagree, but then again how do you enforce such behaviour? Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'? And that's only one example out of many.

You can all argue until you're blue in the face, that reality won't change and it's a bit silly to expect otherwise. DF is and has always been a grab bag of skill that you use for the convenience of finding people automatically. That's all it is. If you don't like it there is always PF.

And this is why ex in mentor is a nightmare. Because they same people who actively refuse advice to get better que for ex in duty finder with the same mentality.

I think the trick is to just leave if it becomes to obnoxious.
I don't expect much from people, especially while they are leveling, but when its causing several wipes because the Tank hasn't figured out to use CD's at level 90 or a 15 min dungeon turns into 40 minutes because I have 2 DPS doing their 1 2 3 single target rotation on a braindead job like Machinist when I pull 15 adds I'd rather take the penalty and craft for 30 minutes to make some gil and try again after.

We shouldn't expect everyone to be gamer gods, but if you're not pulling your weight (and your weight is pretty damn small in 'normal' content) you're not meeting what should be the bare minimum. Period. If that upsets you, you're probably one of the people who likes to throw their weight onto someone else's shoulders.

If you're a brand new player in Sastasha, fine. I'll carry you. You're brand new and have no idea what to do. If you're dead weight in Holminster Switch, get off my back and do your fair share.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reap00

If you queue using duty finder you should have zero expectations. Put your own group together so those of your ilk can stay together. I am sure the people in duty finder won't miss you.

---

"People should be allowed to force others to carry their dead weight, and if you don't like that, leave." - Reap00

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

I'm not saying I disagree, but then again how do you enforce such behaviour?

---

You don't pick up their dead weight, and you let them learn that you're not going to pick them off the ground and carry them to the finish line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'?

---

If they're just tired from work, they still should be able to spam an AOE. If they can't, they're not just tired from work, they're incompetent too.

Punish those people by just spamming combo starter so it will take even longer. Make sure to have 2nd monitor on and some good video on it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

I'm not saying I disagree, but then again how do you enforce such behaviour? Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'? And that's only one example out of many.

---

As someone who opens up FFXIV when I get home from work... I might not be great at hitting cooldowns and oGCDs in an optimal fashion, but basic 1-2-3 combos, single-target or AoE, in a Duty Finder dungeon are a reasonable expectation, I feel like.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

I'm not saying I disagree, but then again how do you enforce such behaviour? Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'? And that's only one example out of many.

You can all argue until you're blue in the face, that reality won't change and it's a bit silly to expect otherwise. DF is and has always been a grab bag of skill that you use for the convenience of finding people automatically. That's all it is. If you don't like it there is always PF.

---

just kick if it's that bad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Payadopa

Are people who are tired after work and just want to unwind not allowed to play because they didn't read the 'XIV AoE manual'? And that's only one example out of many.

---

It's a bad example. As I said earlier:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

This isn't even about expecting people to optimize; even just spamming everyone's most basic AoE combo will reduce the trash kill times to 1/4~1/3 the single target times.

---

For those people, even pressing AoE 1-1-1-1-1-1 or AoE 1-2-1-2-1-2 would do more damage than whatever single target rotation they're trying to do, and it would be easier even.

This talk of expectations has nothing to do with what OP said. It's a suggestion, that's all there is to it. It also has nothing to do with whether a person's casual or not, as I keep seeing. With that out of the way...

People who are not aoeing are just people who

a) Never read what the aoe does
b) Never bothered to found out
c) Actually read but don't care
d) Actually read but don't understand how multiplication works
e) Do care but they really want to freestyle
f) Actually never noticed that they've obtained said skills and just kept trucking on

At the end of the day, just ask, then deal accordingly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

As someone who opens up FFXIV when I get home from work... I might not be great at hitting cooldowns and oGCDs in an optimal fashion, but basic 1-2-3 combos, single-target or AoE, in a Duty Finder dungeon are a reasonable expectation, I feel like.

---

No one's going to be perfect all the time. I know I'm not. I also don't think it's unreasonable to want others to perform basic tasks. Random people are gonna be random though, and they tend to do random things, hence why I said that expectations should probably be tempered.

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

As a filthy casual myself, there's a difference between "casual" and "bad".

---

hehe, me too these days. My raiding days were a decade ago.

But there are casuals, and then there are ..... casuals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

---

If someone level skips, they should take the time to read what their job abilities do before jumping into a duty and dragging everyone else down. Full stop. People who enable people to be bad, toxic drains on the group are just as bad as those same people who refuse to contribute. No one expects savage tier gameplay. Everyone should expect *basic understanding of how the game works*.

Also, something a lot of people forget exists - you can KICK people from your party. It's not mean. It's actively encouraged BY Square. Stop punishing yourselves by leaving when people refuse to respond to civil requests to do the bare basics of the game and actually kick these people. Queue with a friend so you can guarantee it goes through, it only needs two votes yes in 4 mans.

And for the record, there is a rule stating you can't enforce your way of playing on others. This rule works BOTH ways, people who want to just be lazy leeches are NOT allowed to do that, and there's ANOTHER rule that hits them too that basically says you're not allowed to just sit there and be a leech.

And again, because I feel like it probably has to be specified - this is NOT an attack on people that aren't good at the game. This IS an attack on people who refuse to contribute to GROUP CONTENT.

I wonder if this happens in my groups, and I just don't notice.

I wonder if I don't notice because I just don't care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Such toxic. I know this is a whataboutism but... you don't know if someone's a story and level skipper. Or the types SenorPatty mentioned.

---

If you story/level skip, you have an obligation to learn your job either outside of group content or in lower level content (which the story skip conveniently unlocks for you), instead of yeeting yourself into Tower of Zot and subjecting three other people to having to carry you through. In fact, if you're a story skipper and don't meet the bare minimum, I'd judge you even more harshly than I would someone else. At least the bad players who somehow get through the story without learning anything are just bad. Story skippers who choose not to put in effort to learn their job are choosing to be bad and choosing to force others to put up with the consequences of the story skipper's actions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

If someone level skips, they should take the time to read what their job abilities do before jumping into a duty and dragging everyone else down. Full stop. People who enable people to be bad, toxic drains on the group are just as bad as those same people who refuse to contribute. No one expects savage tier gameplay. Everyone should expect *basic understanding of how the game works*.

---

Exactly. If you're level skipping, you are griefing other people if you jump into a duty without reading your tooltips. And I'd argue that the people who enable this behavior are even worse than the people engaging in said behavior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Also, something a lot of people forget exists - you can KICK people from your party. It's not mean. It's actively encouraged BY Square. Stop punishing yourselves by leaving when people refuse to respond to civil requests to do the bare basics of the game and actually kick these people. Queue with a friend so you can guarantee it goes through, it only needs two votes yes in 4 mans.

---

^ This. If someone is being a leech, kick them. Don't tell them why and give them reasons to report you, (seeing as SE is heavily biased towards toxic casuals when it comes to reports) but kick them. Punish THEM, not yourself.