SCH needs a re-tooling

I'm a SCH main, I got through Crystal rank from Season 1, grueling grind though. Learned alot from the job and coming and grinding in Season 2. I've learned a few things that made me say that it needs a change.

First off, I understand that it's a job that's designed to be more support, not meant to have any kind of tools to burst opponents down. To have tools to require other 4 players by your side to be the burst and have a strong LB as a backup mechanic. Even after those I see a glaring problem in the long run. It's very weak if your party collapses within seconds, making your tools useless and have a very serious disadvantage in matches. Pretty rare if your party succeeds, an exaggeration perhaps, but I don't have the data to prove myself right.

So the more I play SCH in matches between the healers. I can see that they are heading to the bottom of the tier list very quickly especially dealing with high skilled players. I know they want to keep it balanced, but the way it's going SCH needs help badly coming 6.2.

The tools I want to see, but more than likely not going to happen, yet never hurt to post this in mind is this.

Already saw another post talking about Aldoquium being changed to Succor. I'm surprised that wasn't considered to be the option for SCH. It saves a Deployment and reduces button presses to focus more onto your partners or opponents. Also having the Recitation buff is USELESS for it for a 50% extra shield. I would just change it to 5% dmg buff so in total of 15% to better give your partners a better burst potential.

Mummification.........can we just turn it into a targeted 20y range, 8y radius bomb? Running to a certain opponent is way too risky just for 6k dmg. I would rather just be at a safe distance than to risk using my defense tools only to get nuked by tons of abilities at once. The other, Mummification needs a dmg buff up to 8k at least if they just going to keep it close range, cone attack. I just don't like it the way it is right now.

.........I was thinking about this. Either give Biolysis a 2nd stack or buff DoT dmg to 4k a tick. Again, competing with other healers, it needs a boost in dmg output to make the job more viable. Hmmm.....if they were to do that, I was considering changing Deployment Tactics to Sacred Soil.....a mobile Sacred Soil....you are the Sacred Soil. I still view SCH as a support job so why give them tools that make them a walking tank...although you'll have a very weak regen, but the dmg reduction will be viable to the party when they need to push.

Those are the things I want to post when dealing with SCH in CC. I know there's a high chance it won't happen, but I do want to see the job become more useful in the future.

SCH is fine. If you're struggling to win games, you're either getting bad teammates or you're not playing as good as you can. Both cases are not something SE is responsible for.

Mummification is an extremely powerful ability counterbalanced by the short range and SCH's lack of any easy means of entering/leaving melee range to use it. If you're having trouble landing Mummification... work on your positioning, or let them come to you.

If you think Recitation adlo is useless... well, that does say a few things about how much you need to learn. Throwing 30k HP out with a single GCD is anything but useless.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Mummification.........can we just turn it into a targeted 20y range, 8y radius bomb?

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Anything but that! Mummification isn't about the AOE damage it does, but about the -25% HP recovery debuff. Recuperating for 11250 HP for 10s while getting focused down and unable to Purify the debuff is absolutely brutal.

The only thing keeping that ability from being oppressive is exactly the fact that it's not long-range and is not a circular AOE. Turning it in a fire-and-forget ability like Miracle of Nature and Silent Nocturne gives me chills.

Biggest issues with SCH is the janky cone of mummification and slow summoning of Seraph. They are still solid and potent Job even if they aren't as flashy as the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Petite

Anything but that! Mummification isn't about the AOE damage it does, but about the -25% HP recovery debuff. Recuperating for 11250 HP for 10s while getting focused down and unable to Purify the debuff is absolutely brutal.

The only thing keeping that ability from being oppressive is exactly the fact that it's not long-range and is not a circular AOE. Turning it in a fire-and-forget ability like Miracle of Nature and Silent Nocturne gives me chills.

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Don't forget that it stacks with Sole Survivor and Frazzle. Like, if people think BLM was oppressive, they ain't seen RDM+SCH or SCH+DRK. Or all three together. Have fun with those 4 digit Recuperates while you're getting thumped with vuln up and you're ticking from dots.

Scholar is fine. I do think it has a higher skill floor than the other healers, so it may not be for everyone. I do think Seraph should come out a couple seconds faster (same for Bahamut and Phoenix) since she disappears if the scholar dies, but that's the only change I think is warranted. The class is very strong right now as it is.

I love scholar. I just got into it and it’s amazing. I love the decisions of either bumping up my teams dps or lowering the dps of the enemy team. It’s definitely my new main. The skill ceiling is pretty high though. I love that though. Also summoning seraph can definitely turn the tides in the match.

Scholar is my second most played job and I have a blast with it. But I agree it is underwhelming compared to most other jobs. You have probably the worst damage profile in the game. Although the raw damage numbers are not terrible, they come mostly from a weak AOE dot, the least impactful damage type you can have because it's the most likely to be healed off and the least likely to contribute to actual kills.

In principle that's okay, since you are supposed to be a buffer/debuffer with a decent support LB. There are two problems with that, though. The first one is that it makes you extremely reliant on your teammates. You'll do well when your teammates are clearly better than the opposition, and you won't be able to do anything when it's the other way around. There is very little agency. The second, and most important, is that you lack the tools to do that well. Your heal/shield is weak, and recitation is wasted on it. You have not a single type of cc to help out. You also have zero mobility. And the lack of mobility when coupled with the virtually point blank range of mummification makes this great skill fall short of its potential.

I honestly see no reason for SCH to be so deprived of everything except buffs/debuffs. They are not impactful enough to justify the scholar's complete lack of mobility, cc, and burst damage skills.

Sure, if you're good enough you can still climb with it, but that can be said of any job anyway. It'll just be that much harder.

SCH definitely need adjustments. I got into Crystal with SCH twice but I will be playing AST from now on because in Crystal matches it is incredibly easy to counter SCH's efficiency by having enemies spread out and skirmishes all over the place. On top of everything, their LB is just way too weak in comparison to the LBs of the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

SCH is fine. If you're struggling to win games, you're either getting bad teammates or you're not playing as good as you can. Both cases are not something SE is responsible for.

Mummification is an extremely powerful ability counterbalanced by the short range and SCH's lack of any easy means of entering/leaving melee range to use it. If you're having trouble landing Mummification... work on your positioning, or let them come to you.

If you think Recitation adlo is useless... well, that does say a few things about how much you need to learn. Throwing 30k HP out with a single GCD is anything but useless.

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Not saying that I'm struggling to reach crystal. In fact, I had fun grinding to reach that want. I'm saying that there's something off that is making the other healer jobs become used more often which the team who design this new pvp doesn't want in the long term. I'm just having this mindset in fighting games. You can say to YOU that the character or job is fine, but in the data that they are compiling and if I was the dev who make this pvp, I would ask myself, "why is ppl not playing this job more often? Something is wrong that needs to be fixed." I also said that Aldo is useless in it's shield department because it'll just go away in 1 hit by the opponent. 6k shield? That's amaz.....oh it's gone in half a second, that's what I mean, waste of a recitation so I consider the change to be a further dmg buff while it's proc'd to make the team more scary to deal with.

The Mummification change I can see them doing is reduce the duration if they do go the AoE route. or an extended cone range. I do not have issues with it with heading to them.....you really don't consider many options at hand do you?

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I love scholar. I just got into it and it’s amazing. I love the decisions of either bumping up my teams dps or lowering the dps of the enemy team. It’s definitely my new main. The skill ceiling is pretty high though. I love that though. Also summoning seraph can definitely turn the tides in the match.

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Summon seraph is great. It just need it's proc to be a bit more instant instead of waiting secs for it to happen.

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Originally Posted by Katoar

SCH definitely need adjustments. I got into Crystal with SCH twice but I will be playing AST from now on because in Crystal matches it is incredibly easy to counter SCH's efficiency by having enemies spread out and skirmishes all over the place. On top of everything, their LB is just way too weak in comparison to the LBs of the other healers.

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Seraph is stronger than AST's LB, dude. She puts out an enormous amount of healing over her duration and the CC shield is exceptionally strong. It's pretty funny watching your team shrug off WHM and DRG LB at the same time. AST's LB is only stronger if you can somehow get both your team *and* their team in the AOE, but it has a long cast time and the AOE isn't large enough that the AST can accomplish that without putting themselves in the middle of a fight.

Also worth noting that Seraph is 90 sec vs AST's 120 sec.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Not saying that I'm struggling to reach crystal. In fact, I had fun grinding to reach that want. I'm saying that there's something off that is making the other healer jobs become used more often which the team who design this new pvp doesn't want in the long term. I'm just having this mindset in fighting games. You can say to YOU that the character or job is fine, but in the data that they are compiling and if I was the dev who make this pvp, I would ask myself, "why is ppl not playing this job more often? Something is wrong that needs to be fixed." I also said that Aldo is useless in it's shield department because it'll just go away in 1 hit by the opponent. 6k shield? That's amaz.....oh it's gone in half a second, that's what I mean, waste of a recitation so I consider the change to be a further dmg buff while it's proc'd to make the team more scary to deal with.

The Mummification change I can see them doing is reduce the duration if they do go the AoE route. or an extended cone range. I do not have issues with it with heading to them.....you really don't consider many options at hand do you?

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There is nothing wrong with SCH, though. People undervalue buffs, shields, and dots, but that's because they aren't willing or able to actually analyze fights and understand what a major impact those things have. They only notice the big bursts and they believe that those are why the kills happened... ignoring the shields that prevented deaths, the dots that lowered enemies into burst range, the damage up that gave them enough damage to secure a kill, the damage down that prevented them from dying to an enemy burst, etc. All of that stuff isn't visible on the score sheet and isn't likely to be noticeable if you aren't paying close attention to your numbers and their numbers. But it's hugely important. Same with healing down - it's not some big flashy number so people undervalue it, but when running out of MP is one of the most common ways to kill someone or force them out of the fight, and healing down makes their Recuperates less effective... it adds up, especially when you add in the damage up your team has, the damage down they have, the dots, etc.

SCH's impact is all very "passive." You setup your buffs and dots and wait for a good opportunity to Mummy the focus target (the first Mummy is often just going to be on a tank if someone doesn't Leeroy in like a moron, since the faster the tank runs out of mana the faster they'll have to leave the fight) and just keep managing your buffs and dots throughout the fight. You don't get any big flashy numbers. Even Seraph is kind of "passive" - you summon her and she throws out a nice buff and then she'll throw out heals periodically but it's not something big and flashy like WHM's laser or SGE's thunderdome.

I mean, your argument against using a Recitation for a teamwide 6k shield is exactly what I'm talking about. That's basically an extra 10% HP for your entire team, a little over that for casters and healers. If you don't recognize the value in reducing your team's incoming damage by *6000*... well, you're just proving that you aren't actually paying attention to numbers and how everything's working together.

It's like oh 10% damage up is only an extra 500 damage on my Broils, big deal. But an extra 500 here or 1500 there is literally the difference between a kill or not in many cases. And therefore, the 4000 or 6000 HP from a shield can be the difference between living or dying.

Giving your team an extra 10% HP and 10% damage up for 15 sec from a single action is *immensely* powerful.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I mean, your argument against using a Recitation for a teamwide 6k shield is exactly what I'm talking about. That's basically an extra 10% HP for your entire team, a little over that for casters and healers. If you don't recognize the value in reducing your team's incoming damage by *6000*... well, you're just proving that you aren't actually paying attention to numbers and how everything's working together.

It's like oh 10% damage up is only an extra 500 damage on my Broils, big deal. But an extra 500 here or 1500 there is literally the difference between a kill or not in many cases. And therefore, the 4000 or 6000 HP from a shield can be the difference between living or dying.

Giving your team an extra 10% HP and 10% damage up for 15 sec from a single action is *immensely* powerful.

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...................I did said the buff change if FOR THE PARTY...not just me lmao. That's only for Recitation proc. I find Sage's Pneuma a more viable shield than recit/aldo/deployment.........man those button presses. That's alot of work to get everything setup for the party. Hopefully it'll work in your favor because it's not...oh boy, it won't end well since the job is based on luck alone by the rest of the group.

It's one of those things were i'll have to say, "we'll see if it's fine or not" if the server data says so. I can keep telling myself and others, "the job is fine", "the job is fine" until it's not.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Summon seraph is great. It just need it's proc to be a bit more instant instead of waiting secs for it to happen.

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Yeah I agree with you about Seraph. I find myself summoning seraph then using guard because I know I will become a target to try to kill me to kill seraph too lol.

Also I use adlo mostly for the damage buff. Not the shield. You’re right the shield is so bad. I think Astro’s can go up to 10k right?

I been playing casual because I don’t wanna rank up to Crystal again as I want the Diamond frame and not another Crystal one. It sucks we don’t get every frame tier that we pass.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Yeah I agree with you about Seraph. I find myself summoning seraph then using guard because I know I will become a target to try to kill me to kill seraph too lol.

Also I use adlo mostly for the damage buff. Not the shield. You’re right the shield is so bad. I think Astro’s can go up to 10k right?

I been playing casual because I don’t wanna rank up to Crystal again as I want the Diamond frame and not another Crystal one. It sucks we don’t get every frame tier that we pass.

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Pretty much the new game plan is to proc it 4 secs earlier and assume where the party/crystal will be. It's lame, but that what you gotta do until the dev team adjusts it.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

...................I did said the buff change if FOR THE PARTY...not just me lmao. That's only for Recitation proc. I find Sage's Pneuma a more viable shield than recit/aldo/deployment.........man those button presses. That's alot of work to get everything setup for the party. Hopefully it'll work in your favor because it's not...oh boy, it won't end well since the job is based on luck alone by the rest of the group.

It's one of those things were i'll have to say, "we'll see if it's fine or not" if the server data says so. I can keep telling myself and others, "the job is fine", "the job is fine" until it's not.

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Pick rates and win rates are incredibly unreliable data, so I wouldn't really worry about what the "server data" says. And it's pretty clear that SE is just going by the meta instead of actual design-balance, anyway. Sage's Pneuma *better* be stronger than Adlo, because it's their only real party defense skill. Kardion is pretty unreliable since the shield relies on a limited resource and the 2k heal isn't consistent since it's just operating off of filler casts (not even every 3 sec like a normal regen, it will be less than that.)

Of course, Adlo is also giving your teammates damage up in addition to the shield, so I don't think Pneuma is really any better. Especially when Pneuma tends to get used immediately for damage rather than being retained for when it's actually needed.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Pretty much the new game plan is to proc it 4 secs earlier and assume where the party/crystal will be. It's lame, but that what you gotta do until the dev team adjusts it.

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Seraph has a 30yd range for her heals. It's fine. You target your party with her so everyone nearby gets Seraph Flight and then that's fine. 30yd is most of the distance between checkpoint and goal line, so if you summon her close to the checkpoint she's still healing people that are close to the goal line.

Seraph Flight is snapshot on cast, not when Seraph actually appears. You can be 50 yards away and still receive the buff as long as you were in the circle when it was cast.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Pick rates and win rates are incredibly unreliable data, so I wouldn't really worry about what the "server data" says. And it's pretty clear that SE is just going by the meta instead of actual design-balance, anyway. Sage's Pneuma *better* be stronger than Adlo, because it's their only real party defense skill. Kardion is pretty unreliable since the shield relies on a limited resource and the 2k heal isn't consistent since it's just operating off of filler casts (not even every 3 sec like a normal regen, it will be less than that.)

Of course, Adlo is also giving your teammates damage up in addition to the shield, so I don't think Pneuma is really any better. Especially when Pneuma tends to get used immediately for damage rather than being retained for when it's actually needed.

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It's not the win/loss rate I was thinking about, it's more of who is using it more overall everytime they que into the match in that particular duration of the season. So I know they are watching that....also watching which toolkit is used or isn't, so it is there. Also why I'm looking at feedback of others when it comes to healers in the high tier, top 100 of play. I don't hear alot of SCHs on that field and the team are known for years wanting to make sure every job is viable, to kill the meta. Not saying they aren't using it, but I were to have a high win rate ratio, SCH isn't it. So when it comes to be a fine job, I'm just looking at why they aren't being used as frequently as other 3 healer jobs for pvp and find the cause to increase the % so all jobs will be balanced across the board, this is long term, not the short.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Seraph has a 30yd range for her heals. It's fine. You target your party with her so everyone nearby gets Seraph Flight and then that's fine. 30yd is most of the distance between checkpoint and goal line, so if you summon her close to the checkpoint she's still healing people that are close to the goal line.

Seraph Flight is snapshot on cast, not when Seraph actually appears. You can be 50 yards away and still receive the buff as long as you were in the circle when it was cast.

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You are correct, the more I look into it, they don't need to change it. The animation was misleading because I thought it took long to proc so that's my fault.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

It's not the win/loss rate I was thinking about, it's more of who is using it more overall everytime they que into the match in that particular duration of the season. So I know they are watching that....also watching which toolkit is used or isn't, so it is there. Also why I'm looking at feedback of others when it comes to healers in the high tier, top 100 of play. I don't hear alot of SCHs on that field and the team are known for years wanting to make sure every job is viable, to kill the meta. Not saying they aren't using it, but I were to have a high win rate ratio, SCH isn't it. So when it comes to be a fine job, I'm just looking at why they aren't being used as frequently as other 3 healer jobs for pvp and find the cause to increase the % so all jobs will be balanced across the board, this is long term, not the short.

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The reason they aren't picked is obvious - people undervalue dots, buffs, and other things that aren't big flashy numbers. Burst isn't necessarily the strongest way to play, but you get a lot of immediate feedback about what you're doing. SCH does a lot of very important things, but it's all in a "behind the scenes" sense. It's not something you can really see on a scoreboard (though if they're good at keeping bio spread around, they'll have very good raw damage) and people are *probably* not going to notice the shields that added up to keeping them alive over several seconds, or how that extra 10% on their attacks built up to killing someone that would have otherwise survived. Everyone goes "yeah but it's a dot," as though a dot's damage doesn't have to be healed. You can claim dots are just stats padding in a game like FL, where you can easily have people back off and potion back up with no real consequence. But someone having to run off somewhere safe to chug because dots are making them "waste" Recuperates... that's pretty significant. Though it helps that SCH's dot is also a damage down effect.

People in this game (and most games, really) don't sit back and try to analyze their games. And this game makes it particularly hard since there's no simple replay function, and even if you were recording your games, you can't go into spectator mode to see things from a different angle or look at what the enemy team's cooldowns and stats looked like. I think most people just queue up and don't think about things, so classes with less visible impact tend to get dismissed as being bad... even if they're not.

I was actually pleased to see there were no SCH buffs. Maybe someone over at SE actually does know what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

You are correct, the more I look into it, they don't need to change it. The animation was misleading because I thought it took long to proc so that's my fault.

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I had the same issue when I started playing SCH. I only noticed it when I would cast her way ahead and then make sure I was near her when she appeared and I didn't get the buff.