The absolute state of Frontlines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K3oxzu_wRQ

I genuinely hate Summoners.

EDIT: I made another one because I'm uninspired and have too much free time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpcSFOfGUqU

I don't understand the SMN hate. The video you posted literally shows you answers to them. Snipe is an instagib with BH4 or higher, or with pretty much any BH plus a followup Drill (doesn't need to be analyzed.) MNK can already 100-0 any caster in the unbreakable Meteodrive combo, it requires even less (or can be done even if they are guarding) with BH. NIN can poke at range and then chain neck snaps together to rapidly hit BH5 and begin slapping SMN for about half their HP with Hyosho every 15 sec. AST/SCH buffs fuzz the math even more.

Yeah, Bahamut spam is dumb but as long as you aren't all clumped up it's really not a huge deal. And if you *are* clumped up, you deserve to get dumpstered by AOE spam.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I don't understand the SMN hate. The video you posted literally shows you answers to them. Snipe is an instagib with BH4 or higher, or with pretty much any BH plus a followup Drill (doesn't need to be analyzed.) MNK can already 100-0 any caster in the unbreakable Meteodrive combo, it requires even less (or can be done even if they are guarding) with BH. NIN can poke at range and then chain neck snaps together to rapidly hit BH5 and begin slapping SMN for about half their HP with Hyosho every 15 sec. AST/SCH buffs fuzz the math even more.

Yeah, Bahamut spam is dumb but as long as you aren't all clumped up it's really not a huge deal. And if you *are* clumped up, you deserve to get dumpstered by AOE spam.

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Snipe isn't instagib at any BH unless the SMN isn't at full HP, I think I would know if that was the case.
SMN LB range is too massive for you to reliably get in range to use Drill without getting blown up by their team, so using the Drill + LB combo (Which isn't a guaranteed kill, though it can kill from full HP at BH4 or 5) is not exactly safe as you will probably die afterwards due to animation lock for Marksman's Spite
Also you expect MNK/NIN to dive into the enemy alliance to kill the summoners and not get blown to bits before even getting halfway across to said summoner?

Maybe try playing some Frontlines lmao, none of what you said works reliably unless you're fine trading your life for a summoner's, and with how maps are designed, teams are forced to clump together for the objectives most of the time, so I'm not sure what you're supposed to do there.

Are you just trying to sound smart by making up bogus points in response to a meme video?

No, I'm just someone who plays and wins about 60% of FL games since the revamp went through, instead of whining about something you can just learn to play around.

Drill is too short-ranged? Weird, I mostly play NIN and I have zero issues fighting both in melee or at 25yd range. As for snipe not instagibbing, 36000 * 1.5 = 54000. It's 50.4 at BH4 (1.4x dmg.) Where are you seeing 54k HP Summoners?

I didn't change the math. I pointed out that the 28800 you were fixating on was due to the SMN's defense buff. An LB5 snipe with 20% DR is 43.2k damage, which puts them into death range of even a standard drill (51.2k total damage.)

You tried to be cute with the 28800 but forgot (or weren't aware) that SMN has a 20% DR buff they can give themselves or others. I'm simply correcting you on that. Why are you so mad?

I don't know why you guys bother to argue over artificial mathematic number.
When people start to bring one specific job to Frontline, that job is inline on the chopping block.
More active job get a nerf, less played job get a buff, that is how it works in MMORPG balance.
It is also just matter time they bring back defuff on all range job to frontline anyway.

If you want to speed up the process, play Summoner to make it go faster to the guillotine lol

FL changes are most likely going to come in the form of global modifiers, LB charge timer adjustments (which has basically been confirmed, and does make sense), and maybe damage fall-off ("18k to primary target, 50% less to all others", etc.) I would *hope* they're not going to make specific class changes based off FL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

FL changes are most likely going to come in the form of global modifiers, LB charge timer adjustments (which has basically been confirmed, and does make sense), and maybe damage fall-off ("18k to primary target, 50% less to all others", etc.) I would *hope* they're not going to make specific class changes based off FL.

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They are not going to Nerf/Buff a job radically similar to Foolish Biizzard on how to destroy their own game
They have two target audiences, CC and Frontline
It is more efficient and smart by place debuff on ranges and buff melee damage reduction for Frontline
They have done in the past and proven working

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I don't know why you guys bother to argue over artificial mathematic number.
When people start to bring one specific job to Frontline, that job is inline on the chopping block.
More active job get a nerf, less played job get a buff, that is how it works in MMORPG balance.
It is also just matter time they bring back defuff on all range job to frontline anyway.

If you want to speed up the process, play Summoner to make it go faster to the guillotine lol

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Summoner isn't even that strong outside of the LB, making it so subsequent Megaflares do 75% less dmg to the same target will more than likely stop it being the most played job in FL.

Though I wouldn't mind a dmg decrease to ranged attacks in the form of some slight DR to melee jobs since I'm seeing like 80% of people in a match playing ranged while the rest play melee, specially in Secure (personal experience, could be wrong).

I just hope SE doesn't drop the ball and swing the pendulum from one extreme to another by giving us another Dragoon domination saga, that wasn't very fun either, so I'm just fucking around with what I got till next patch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naphtha

Summoner isn't even that strong outside of the LB, making it so subsequent Megaflares do 75% less dmg to the same target will more than likely stop it being the most played job in FL.

Though I wouldn't mind a dmg decrease to ranged attacks in the form of some slight DR to melee jobs since I'm seeing like 80% of people in a match playing ranged while the rest play melee, specially in Secure (personal experience, could be wrong).

I just hope SE doesn't drop the ball and swing the pendulum from one extreme to another by giving us another Dragoon domination saga, that wasn't very fun either, so I'm just fucking around with what I got till next patch.

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Do you even know how debuff works?
All meeles and tanks takes 50% less damage and 20% damage increase to all meeles in frontline (the percentage is also adjustable)
It has been in Frontline between 4.5 to 6.1 and I yet to see any range job is so called "unplayble"
This is a fair treatment to take away range advantage in PvP

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Do you even know how debuff works?
All meeles and tanks takes 50% less damage and 20% damage increase to all meeles in frontline (the percentage is also adjustable)
It has been in Frontline between 4.5 to 6.1 and I yet to see any range job is so called "unplayble"
This is a fair treatment to take away range advantage in PvP

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Yes? I'm saying that 5.x suffered greatly from Dragoons who benefited from the DR/buff that were handed to melee. I don't think this current PvP would work with extreme percentages like 50% dmg reduction for tanks, considering the damage numbers they are capable of dishing.

What worked for 5.x PvP isn't necessarily going to work for this meta without some careful tweaking, I'm all for something to nerf the current emphasis on ranged jobs, but I can't help but think it'll probably swing the other way around with melees dominating due to over-the-top buffs/debuffs.

Honestly, imo, you only need to give melee dps/tanks a slight DR buff and that would allow them to actually play the gamemode again without having to play around stragglers or be forced to play NIN spamming AoE poke and fishing for an execute.

Edit for clarity: I know you said percentages are adjustable, my whole point is that the dev team could possibly botch the adjustment and instead of fixing the problem, they just swap it out for another problem that is just as bad.

LOL that vid @OP. Almost died laughing. :D
Anyone and their dog's grandma can see that FL is a broken SMN mess atm. Why would anyone argue against that?
As I understand it, SE has acknowledged that FL is not balanced atm. From experience, this doesn't actually mean much; they haven't really balanced things around PvP with FL primarily in mind since, I dunno, Secure? Slaughter?

How to fix things is up to SE, but diminishing returns on CC, some sort of damage control on AOE (get a bahamut buff or similar when hit).
The damage reduction is already in place for melee clases, but against the massive AOE bursts it means nothing.

And, no, you can't be prepared for it all the time. The LBs activates too fast. Of course, you can play smart and all, but it really boils down to being overly cautious more often than not. Which is boring.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

LOL that vid @OP. Almost died laughing. :D
Anyone and their dog's grandma can see that FL is a broken SMN mess atm. Why would anyone argue against that?
As I understand it, SE has acknowledged that FL is not balanced atm. From experience, this doesn't actually mean much; they haven't really balanced things around PvP with FL primarily in mind since, I dunno, Secure? Slaughter?

How to fix things is up to SE, but diminishing returns on CC, some sort of damage control on AOE (get a bahamut buff or similar when hit).
The damage reduction is already in place for melee clases, but against the massive AOE bursts it means nothing.

And, no, you can't be prepared for it all the time. The LBs activates too fast. Of course, you can play smart and all, but it really boils down to being overly cautious more often than not. Which is boring.

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Cannot agree more with this post, and yeah they said they are only balancing for CC/Feast so FL is really not that important to them, they seem to be changing that stance which is pretty great since I truly believe FL can be a fantastic game mode to mess around in.

Also glad you enjoyed the video, had a lot of fun making it tbh.

Imagine balancing the entire of pvp around 5v5 when 24v24v24 exists. How something like that even happened is baffling to me. The longer you think about it, the less sense it makes.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

Imagine balancing the entire of pvp around 5v5 when 24v24v24 exists. How something like that even happened is baffling to me. The longer you think about it, the less sense it makes.

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Most MMOs do this in an attempt to appeal to hardcore PvPers and try to establish a 'competitive PvP' scene. WoW is a pretty popular example with how it is balanced around Arena with BGs suffering for it, same as what is happening here.

Honestly, they should just follow in GW2's example and balance each mode separately, Conquest and WvW (World vs World) adjust your skills as you enter, so if something is underperforming in Conquest but overperforming in WvW, it gets ironed out to be a bit more manageable, not saying GW2's balancing is perfect, but it's definitely better than what we currently have.

Then again, the devs mentioned separate balancing or something of the sort in one of the last patch notes, it could be a sign of good things to come, but who knows.

Additional point: I think the current balancing could work if they returned Frontlines to 8v8v8, but I can't really be sure.

Tank DR probably ought to be bumped to 30% or even 35%. Melee classes generally have pretty strong defensive tools (often better than tanks'), so I'm not sure they necessarily need more than their existing 20% or whatever. Just slowing down LB charge times across the board and maybe implementing damage fall-off for AOE effects in FL should probably do a lot of good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

LOL that vid @OP. Almost died laughing. :D
Anyone and their dog's grandma can see that FL is a broken SMN mess atm. Why would anyone argue against that?
As I understand it, SE has acknowledged that FL is not balanced atm. From experience, this doesn't actually mean much; they haven't really balanced things around PvP with FL primarily in mind since, I dunno, Secure? Slaughter?

How to fix things is up to SE, but diminishing returns on CC, some sort of damage control on AOE (get a bahamut buff or similar when hit).
The damage reduction is already in place for melee clases, but against the massive AOE bursts it means nothing.

And, no, you can't be prepared for it all the time. The LBs activates too fast. Of course, you can play smart and all, but it really boils down to being overly cautious more often than not. Which is boring.

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CC doesn't need diminishing returns. If Purify works as it's supposed to and Resilience actually triggers instantly like it should, that's already all the coverage you need. Yeah, you could still get sheeped and killed during the sheep... but why are you diving the enemy team if there's a WHM hiding in a corner somewhere?

It's not like CC spamming wasn't a thing in the old system. It was a common way to die if you were being dumb and overextending or not paying attention to enemy positioning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I didn't change the math. I pointed out that the 28800 you were fixating on was due to the SMN's defense buff. An LB5 snipe with 20% DR is 43.2k damage, which puts them into death range of even a standard drill (51.2k total damage.)

You tried to be cute with the 28800 but forgot (or weren't aware) that SMN has a 20% DR buff they can give themselves or others. I'm simply correcting you on that. Why are you so mad?

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You're not wrong, but the likely reason it did 20% less damage is because the SMN had battle high, that also increases defense on SMN by 20% lol

REF: https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../5/#anchor_003

Funny how he's telling you that you don't know how damage calculation works, when he clearly doesn't understand how damage calculation works EVEN WITH his 'visual information' heh

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asuka-Hykiri

Right back at you buddy lol learn what 20% of the marksman spite damage is, then get back to me

Or go back to trolling on roblox of something and let the grown ups play.

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I think I'd rather swallow a box of nails than 'get back' to you with anything if you think you have an argument here, but maybe open that link of yours and read through it again, just an idea.

Oh sorry, my mistake, it isn't during battle high...

ITS ALL THE TIME

so yeah, 28,800 is still correct

With Battle High 5, thats still 54000 x 0.8 to give 43,200 dmg of the 49,500 HP

With a follow up drill for 10,000 x 0.8 to give 8,000 dmg of their remaining HP

So yeah, the origional comment about a BH5 MCH being able to 2 shot a SMN still isn't wrong

Now we're all more educated! Huzaah

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asuka-Hykiri

Oh sorry, my mistake, it isn't during battle high...

ITS ALL THE TIME

so yeah, 28,800 is still correct

With Battle High 5, thats still 54000 x 0.8 to give 43,200 dmg of the 49,500 HP

With a follow up drill for 10,000 x 0.8 to give 8,000 dmg of their remaining HP

So yeah, the origional comment about a BH5 MCH being able to 2 shot a SMN still isn't wrong

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Couple of things:

-The point about the DR being native to the gamemode rather than a buff/debuff has already been discussed, which means you failed to read the entire discussion leading up to this point

-The 'original comment' mentioned MCH's Snipe (LB) 'instagibbing' with BH4/BH5. The definition of instagib is this: (video games, transitive) To immediately gib (with no damage beforehand necessary).

-The point I've argued, which again, you've clearly failed to read, is that the native DR in Frontline makes it impossible to instagib anyone with just a snipe, since that damage will never break 44k, which is a bit short of the 49.5k required to kill

I've been trying to explain this for close to two pages now, if you still don't understand what I was trying to argue against, or on what I'm basing my arguments off of, then I'm sorry to say I don't care, I'm pretty bored of trying to get this point across.

have not been near their sence the start of endwalkers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

It's not like CC spamming wasn't a thing in the old system. It was a common way to die if you were being dumb and overextending or not paying attention to enemy positioning.

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Sure, there was CC spamming, and purify wasn't a global skill. But there were the autoimmune and actual healers. If pre 6.1 was 6/10 cc spam, right now it's 8/10 cc spam (if that makes sense lol). You literally couldn't be stunlockd for more than 1 stun, which imo is how it should be.
But, I agree, it's not THAT much of a difference, IF purify actually works as intended, and not at the mercy of server ticks. SE needs to either take a hard look at purify, or redesign the entire "cc system".

There are other factors SE introduced in 6.1 involved, it is not just CC.
There is new category I called animation lock.
Let me be more specify.
Any CC can be remove by Purify is traditional CC
There is another school SE introduced is put your target into animation lock and target's action bar will be disabled or can not be remove by Purify:
Phantom Rush
Meteor Drive
Miracle Nature
Contradance
There are many more but I yet to discover during my solo in Frontline.
Overall, you can't touch CC because there are two schools.
The best thing is to apply 5.0 version of countermeasure to bring down Ranges to even with Meeles

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Sure, there was CC spamming, and purify wasn't a global skill. But there were the autoimmune and actual healers. If pre 6.1 was 6/10 cc spam, right now it's 8/10 cc spam (if that makes sense lol). You literally couldn't be stunlockd for more than 1 stun, which imo is how it should be.
But, I agree, it's not THAT much of a difference, IF purify actually works as intended, and not at the mercy of server ticks. SE needs to either take a hard look at purify, or redesign the entire "cc system".

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Not to mention healers had Rescue which could save a melee's life.

I've had numerous situations where I've been CC'd for well over 6s at a time thanks to repeated stuns, before the PvP patch I would have only been stunned for 2 before gaining immunity for 10s, there is no shot you played earlier Frontlines and think the CC is comparable between then and now, even purify isn't that helpful considering how many skills can bypass it as mentioned in Divinemights post. Honestly I'm not sure what they can do to make FL not a cc fest without making it so melee can go in and out without any form of punishment. I feel like in 5.x melee could dive with minimal risk, but now it feels like the exact opposite where even if you get a perfect purify off you still get shafted by a WHM's polymorph that is basically a death sentence. And it's not like you can avoid it since every alliance has multiple WHMs in every single match.

Also this thread really got derailed considering I just wanted to put up a meme video kek.

SMN is garbage outside LB, and for whatever reason Square decided thats all they need in frontlines. That and dragoon bursts. Maybe making pvp about just bursting and not engaging with your entire skillset constantly is a pretty bad and shoddy design. I would legit take the old system again

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Originally Posted by Naphtha

Not to mention healers had Rescue which could save a melee's life.

I've had numerous situations where I've been CC'd for well over 6s at a time thanks to repeated stuns, before the PvP patch I would have only been stunned for 2 before gaining immunity for 10s, there is no shot you played earlier Frontlines and think the CC is comparable between then and now, even purify isn't that helpful considering how many skills can bypass it as mentioned in Divinemights post. Honestly I'm not sure what they can do to make FL not a cc fest without making it so melee can go in and out without any form of punishment. I feel like in 5.x melee could dive with minimal risk, but now it feels like the exact opposite where even if you get a perfect purify off you still get shafted by a WHM's polymorph that is basically a death sentence. And it's not like you can avoid it since every alliance has multiple WHMs in every single match.

Also this thread really got derailed considering I just wanted to put up a meme video kek.

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The old system didn't give you CC immunity, just to that type. You absolutely got chain CC'd in the old system, immunity be damned. Stun immunity won't protect you from the 3 sec silence following it or the 2 sec bind after that. At least now you have guard - and you should be *immediately* guarding if you get hit with any sort of soft CC since you are almost certainly not going to avoid the incoming hard CC's.

And yes, melee could dive without risk in 5.x because *melee were overpowered.* They had too much global DR, hence the old system being "everyone plays DRG if they want to win."

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

SMN is garbage outside LB, and for whatever reason Square decided thats all they need in frontlines. That and dragoon bursts. Maybe making pvp about just bursting and not engaging with your entire skillset constantly is a pretty bad and shoddy design. I would legit take the old system again

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I would really like pre-5.0 PvP back, at least for FL, I enjoyed late 4.x's PvP, though I didn't really get into Feast at that time, so I can't tell if it was good or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

SMN is garbage outside LB, and for whatever reason Square decided thats all they need in frontlines. That and dragoon bursts. Maybe making pvp about just bursting and not engaging with your entire skillset constantly is a pretty bad and shoddy design. I would legit take the old system again

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Don’t over exaggerates.
In 6.1 PvP, most of jobs core damage is from LB, SMN is not unique
Most jobs rely on CC chain lock for execution kill

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Don’t over exaggerates.
In 6.1 PvP, most of jobs core damage is from LB, SMN is not unique
Most jobs rely on CC chain lock for execution kill

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I played only a couple of CC matches (Can't duo queue so cba), how is Phoenix there? It feels like Phoenix just exists currently with no reason to use it over Bahamut, but I'm not sure, doesn't it have a heal or something?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naphtha

I played only a couple of CC matches (Can't duo queue so cba), how is Phoenix there? It feels like Phoenix just exists currently with no reason to use it over Bahamut, but I'm not sure, doesn't it have a heal or something?

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Except this discussion is about Frontline and what is your purpose of mix in Crystal conflict into this?
Did you misunderstand CC used in my statement refers to crowd control?

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Except this discussion is about Frontline and what is your purpose of mix in Crystal conflict into this?
Did you misunderstand CC used in my statement refers to crowd control?

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Not really, I was just curious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naphtha

Not really, I was just curious.

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If I play SMN I would want Everlasting Flight on my tanks and meeles to give them edge to pressure enemy summoners on the frontline
Especially my team has a good monk, the monk can kill enemy SMN very fast

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

And yes, melee could dive without risk in 5.x because *melee were overpowered.* They had too much global DR, hence the old system being "everyone plays DRG if they want to win."

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I could dive in as a melee and treat it as a blue dps in 5.x, because I have that 50-50 safety when using Bloodbath with Fetterward, WARs being the only threat if I wasnt a DRG

With the removal of those role traits it doesn't make sense to go in melee range with any class in a huge cluster since it's very easy to be bursted. I dont have faith in the Guard ability, especially since there's certain classes that can pierce right through it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

I could dive in as a melee and treat it as a blue dps in 5.x, because I have that 50-50 safety when using Bloodbath with Fetterward, WARs being the only threat if I wasnt a DRG

With the removal of those role traits it doesn't make sense to go in melee range with any class in a huge cluster since it's very easy to be bursted. I dont have faith in the Guard ability, especially since there's certain classes that can pierce right through it.

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Right. If you want to play melee right now, you have to be a roamer and focus on picking at people that have overextended or look for small engagements. Melee is still very powerful, but will be more limited by its nature than ranged classes until they buff melee passive DR. MNK can still delete all casters, even the dreaded BH5 summoners, in an unbreakable 100-0 combo chain. They still have opportunities to be useful and effective.

But if people are trying to play them like 5.x melee, where melee was extremely overpowered, then yeah they're going to be disappointed and frustrated. That's just how things are. Play different classes or don't play if that's going to be a make or break thing for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Right. If you want to play melee right now, you have to be a roamer and focus on picking at people that have overextended or look for small engagements. Melee is still very powerful, but will be more limited by its nature than ranged classes until they buff melee passive DR. MNK can still delete all casters, even the dreaded BH5 summoners, in an unbreakable 100-0 combo chain. They still have opportunities to be useful and effective.

But if people are trying to play them like 5.x melee, where melee was extremely overpowered, then yeah they're going to be disappointed and frustrated. That's just how things are. Play different classes or don't play if that's going to be a make or break thing for you.

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As someone who plays a lot of Frontlines exclusively as DRG since 6.1, I agree with all of this. Melees are one of the toughest classes to play in the current state of Frontlines. The adjustment for me from coming from a 5.x MCH was brutal. But after gaining experience and improving my skills, I feel they're very balanced because of the risk-reward. Their bursts and LBs can be devastating, but to be the most useful and effective, they have to risk being out of position and focused down. In other words, a glass cannon.

They remind me a lot of fighting games because you have to play smart, know the game, and look for opportunities (capitalizing off an opponent's mistake, being sensitive to when to pressure and defend, knowing the best positioning, etc). If you're expecting to be a blue DPS or looking for something easygoing but good, melee is not the class you're looking for.

NGL, 1:51 of the OP's video made me laugh. imagined that scream coming from the unsuspecting SMN.

Frontlines just has too many cheese strats and comps right now that it was clear they (as always) designed PvP around the small mode and devil-may-care'd whatever happened in Frontlines without any testing. They say they're going to make adjustments for it, and I'll wait to see what exactly it entails with skepticism. Until then, we're all just going to have to live with tactical Bahamut and 'goon drops; and I hope Yoshida does too if he ever decides to venture out of CC into Frontlines if he hasn't already.

i am surprised that no one is complaining 2 monks can one shot any one in the Frontline and that target cant even reach

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Originally Posted by Cidel

NGL, 1:51 of the OP's video made me laugh. imagined that scream coming from the unsuspecting SMN.

Frontlines just has too many cheese strats and comps right now that it was clear they (as always) designed PvP around the small mode and devil-may-care'd whatever happened in Frontlines without any testing. They say they're going to make adjustments for it, and I'll wait to see what exactly it entails with skepticism. Until then, we're all just going to have to live with tactical Bahamut and 'goon drops; and I hope Yoshida does too if he ever decides to venture out of CC into Frontlines if he hasn't already.

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I mean, FL was a joke before, too. Melee was very overpowered and you pretty much just spammed a ton of DRGs in every team if you wanted to win a lot of games. They could toss spears at people for more damage than other melees got at the end of their 3-step combo, and it was every GCD instead of every 3rd GCD. Add the melee DR to what was basically a half-ranged class and ta-da, you have a meta monster.

We'll see this *exact same thing* happen to NIN if it gets treated like all the other melees and gets some huge DR buff. A class that's halfway to being a ranged class, but with the base HP and global DR of a "true" melee class like MNK? Yeah no shit it'll be broken. I also wouldn't put it past them to repeat the past mistake... I don't think FL really gets their biggest and best minds. And, really though, should it? If you try to get people to take it seriously, you get no end of "lol idc it's pvp" type responses and people act like you grew a third ear for thinking that everyone should be playing to win in the team game. Personally, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to waste valuable work hours on it when over 80% of people participating in it aren't even competent enough to have a valid opinion on the state of it as it is.

Hell, people used to whine that ranged were OP in 5.x FL, when the exact opposite was true. People don't put effort into learning how to properly do anything, SE doesn't even pretend to try and teach them or provide effective tools for teaching, and most people go in and die a few times and decide "I played okay, those things that killed me are OP and need nerfed!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

i am surprised that no one is complaining 2 monks can one shot any one in the Frontline and that target cant even reach

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MNK being able to instagib casters and ranged (and even tanks if they can guarantee a follow-up GCD before they can heal - you just delay the stun until after the ult instead of before and it works most of the time since Purify takes too long to trigger) is a *huge* balance problem in CC. I'm actually surprised we don't see more bitching about that here... maybe other DCs don't have a lot of good MNK mains? It's not surprising that it would exist in FL as well. But MNK is kind of garbage outside of that one trick they can do... I'd rather just put a pair of WHMs together, two lasers into two miserys will gib just about anything, and being able to chain two sheeps back to back is pretty strong. Or, as the video shows... two snipes landing at the same time is also pretty effective :P