NO GROUP WANTS SAM FOR DSR WITHOUT LOGS??

deleted thread.

Uuuuuuhhhhhh.....

I feel like half the community went over this already.

If anyone is asking for what you are describing; screenshot the conversation, and report them.

No one should be asking for that, and if they are, they need to be reported; because if they are asking for a "damage log" they are talking about something that is strictly against the Terms of Service.

The devs are going to do nothing about this...Because there is no obligation for them to do anything about it. They can't tell players to take samurais into groups or exclude them because we the players have the right to decide who goes and who doesn't. Would it make sense for yoship to come over and tell you that you have to take that bard? No, it wouldn't.

Best you can do is just report them, for all the good it'll do. But, here's the thing. Ultimate fights are demanding, challenging, and more importantly, set up differently than a typical savage fight. Some classes excel at these kinds of fights strictly because of how they're laid out. Samurai has never been the best choice for ultimates, despite being able to clear them. I know, I played samurai for every ultimate up till now. I know you're ranting, and it sucks, but you can't expect the devs to force people to take you into their groups either. It'd just breed resentment among your peers, and that's just as bad as being excluded.

Wait till you try and get into a parse farm and see that Sam/blm/mch are blocked from most of them

sorry mate but you don't get to crybully others into allowing you into their spaces
if they want you in the group they'll invite you, if not find another group.

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

I can't get over the fact that every group doing DSR is asking for 80 - 90% parses. How am I supposed to find a DSR static without doing log runs? :mad:

What are the devs planning to do about this? I need an answer please.

Are there no normal groups that give people a chance without having the idiotic mindset that only the top 10% of players can meet the dps check? Actually HILLARIOUS!

This is the pinnacle of stupidity. I can't believe people see this as the only viable metric for giving someone a chance in DSU. 90% of the players with high parses are doing log runs for hours upon hours, how does this make them any better than me or anyone else who play their class at an optimal level?

They literally just do more damage because they handpick their group composition and that entire group dumps all the raid buffs possible on them in a run to give them as high % as possible. I will be waiting for the tryhards telling me this is not true, we are just better that's why our attacks hit harder. LMAO. Go waste your time somewhere else.

But hey... "we don't care let's continue being as selfish as we possibly can and only include the top 10% of players in our groups. We don't care if you do mechanics extremely consistently or if you have an actual working brain and game sense"

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I think the issue here is not the fact that you are playing samurai (but I definitely can see that being a reason they give to exclude given how anti-synergistic that job is now), but it's more to see if you are capable of making DPS checks. I don't particularly agree that you *need* extremely high savage logs to prove that you can meet DPS checks in DSR, because those logs don't give enough information about your ability to perform in a current ultimate unless they show you cleared the savage tier week 1 or 2. Outside of that, I would say just having you trial for a day or two would give more of an indication of how consistent you are with mechanics and if they are running into DPS issues because of you(r choice of job) as opposed looking at savage logs, especially since Asphodelos was not even particularly difficult to clear.

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Originally Posted by AsiTsurugi

I think the issue here is not the fact that you are playing samurai (but I definitely can see that being a reason they give to exclude given how anti-synergistic that job is now), but it's more to see if you are capable of making DPS checks. I don't particularly agree that you *need* extremely high savage logs to prove that you can meet DPS checks in DSR, because those logs don't give enough information about your ability to perform in a current ultimate unless they show you cleared the savage tier week 1 or 2. Outside of that, I would say just having you trial for a day or two would give more of an indication of how consistent you are with mechanics and if they are running into DPS issues because of you(r choice of job) as opposed looking at savage logs, especially since Asphodelos was not even particularly difficult to clear.

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OP just thinks that every color of parse is crit damage farm and doesnt see that this is current and hardest ultimate, not savage where you can get carried by everyone having 590+ from start or by helpers/reclearers in pf party that can do savage fights blindfolded at this point.

Logs to some degree show that you atleast know your rotation and you know keep uptime on boss. I do agree that 95-100 doesnt tell anything besides if its week 1-2 but he said about 80-90% this is literally fits into "have bis no rotation mistakes" category.

If op is not a troll i suggest him rather do ucob/uwu first and change mindset about logs and how people recruit for statics in general.

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Originally Posted by Picker

Wait till you try and get into a parse farm and see that Sam/blm/mch are blocked from most of them

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Sam will be blocked for sure in 6.2, right now pf logs are pretty much dead so everyone is welcome

I feel like if someone applied up to one of these groups with a 75% parse and a good attitude, theyd get further in the screening process. You want top performers, and of course there is a low enough level that would make checks harder to clear, but isnt attitude and fit still like 1/2 of what a static needs? And seeing as them asking for this is bothering you so much, would you really want to be in their group anyway? The way i see it, there are 4 solutions:

1. Talk to them. Maybe they say that they want that to scare away the chumps.
2. Dont change a thing, keep looking and hope to find a group that loves you for you. Even though you play a lala. Seems unlikely.
3. Make your own static. Youre in charge now, so you set the requirements for entry.
4. Join the inevitable(and mostly doomed) PUG scene. Ultra-frustrating option, but if you meet the right people and SHOW that you can perform then with or without logs you might just find/form a static that has much better odds.

Because just complaining on the forums and not changing anything will solve nothing.

what do you mean groups don't want people based on parses?
isn't parsing used exclusively for self improvement?

Alright, clearly the author of this topic is pointing out the "logs" problem, but I see another problem there.

DSR is the hardest content as of now. It's natural a group would like a proof of experience that you are capable of clearing DSR in the window of time they are aiming at.

Basing myself on the OP's achievement:
-Never cleared any ultimate
-Cleared Pandæmonium: Asphodelos (Savage) on April 16, actively raiding from mid-January.
-Lacks clear in many Extreme content (EW EX cleared but not all ShB EX)

Without even looking at the colored number, I would refuse OP's application on the simple basis that they lack experience.
It's understanble why they would check the colored numbers as you have nothing to back-up any experience.

Their argument may be against ToS, but even without the colored number arguments, I would look for a better candidate.
You may want to gain experience through UCOB/UWU/TEA before aiming at DSR.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

Without even looking at the colored number, I would refuse OP's application on the simple basis that they lack experience.
It's understanble why they would check the colored numbers as you have nothing to back-up any experience.

Their argument may be against ToS, but even without the colored number arguments, I would look for a better candidate.
You may want to gain experience through UCOB/UWU/TEA before aiming at DSR.

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But there is another issue, a relatively new player might still be good, but getting into a group can be difficult since all of them look for that same experience. Which you can barely get if barely anyone plays the required content (let alone that you need to beat it with randoms because of them). I have tried many times to even get into extremes, but after queues of 30 minutes still couldnt get in (as a healer if thats relevant).

How can you prove things if you simply cannot play the content that is required as proof? The moment EW comes out, the ShB content suddenly gets a lot less attention. And for ShB, SB was a requirement. This isolates a lot of players.

This is where the issue starts. Recruitment itself should simply be better, and tools for that just have to exist to allow players to prove they are worthy.

Currently the best option is to find a discord channel that organizes these things with randoms, and even though it has a lesser chance of success, enough attempts should give you enough completions.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

But there is another issue, a relatively new player might still be good, but getting into a group can be difficult since all of them look for that same experience. Which you can barely get if barely anyone plays the required content (let alone that you need to beat it with randoms because of them). I have tried many times to even get into extremes, but after queues of 30 minutes still couldnt get in (as a healer if thats relevant).

How can you prove things if you simply cannot play the content that is required as proof? The moment EW comes out, the ShB content suddenly gets a lot less attention. And for ShB, SB was a requirement. This isolates a lot of players.

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While it's true previous content gets less attention, this is not the case for ultimate that is still being progged.
Even as today, there are groups trying to find member to clear UCOB and UWU, or trying to tackle them all one after another.
And when I mean today, I literally mean within the hour, multiple groups looking for members for UWU and UCOB.
Within the days, groups looking for member for TEA.

If you want to prove your capacity with savage only, you want a fast prog to prove you're a fast learner.
Fast prog also proves you are able to pull a good DPS.

There will be some static that will agree to let the player proves themselves in a test raid. Those static are OP's best chance and they'd better bring their best.

An application for a roster is just like an application for a job. If there are much better players than you and you're below average, expect a challenging environment.
If you need January, February, March and April to clear Pandaemonium, how long would it need to clear DSR? That's probably the first easy question.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

But there is another issue, a relatively new player might still be good, but getting into a group can be difficult since all of them look for that same experience. Which you can barely get if barely anyone plays the required content (let alone that you need to beat it with randoms because of them). I have tried many times to even get into extremes, but after queues of 30 minutes still couldnt get in (as a healer if thats relevant).

How can you prove things if you simply cannot play the content that is required as proof? The moment EW comes out, the ShB content suddenly gets a lot less attention. And for ShB, SB was a requirement. This isolates a lot of players.

This is where the issue starts. Recruitment itself should simply be better, and tools for that just have to exist to allow players to prove they are worthy.

Currently the best option is to find a discord channel that organizes these things with randoms, and even though it has a lesser chance of success, enough attempts should give you enough completions.

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I think we're ignoring the fact that requirements differ depending on the job you're playing too. If you're going to take a pure/selfish DPS melee into prog, then the success of the party is REALLY in the hands of how you play. Makes perfect sense that they would want to see that you play well.

On the other hand, with a more "group focused" job, the player's personal performance matters less (not "not at all", just less) so they may be more willing to take someone that isn't 90-99 parsing.

Really though, PF groups exist for Savage content where they can get better, statics are still running older ultimates and will likely try DSR once they finish the older ones.

This is a good analogy:

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

An application for a roster is just like an application for a job. If there are much better players than you and you're below average, expect a challenging environment.

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OP is applying for a Executive level job without having any management experience. You need to climb the ladder and there are plenty of rungs that were skipped, e.g. the older ultimates, perfecting savage for this tier, etc. You're right, they may be an amazing CEO, but nobody is going to be willing to take a chance hiring a retail worker to be the CEO without some experience and proof.

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

I can't get over the fact that every group doing DSR is asking for 80 - 90% parses. How am I supposed to find a DSR static without doing log runs? :mad:

What are the devs planning to do about this? I need an answer please.

Are there no normal groups that give people a chance without having the idiotic mindset that only the top 10% of players can meet the dps check? Actually HILLARIOUS!

This is the pinnacle of stupidity. I can't believe people see this as the only viable metric for giving someone a chance in DSU. 90% of the players with high parses are doing log runs for hours upon hours, how does this make them any better than me or anyone else who play their class at an optimal level?

They literally just do more damage because they handpick their group composition and that entire group dumps all the raid buffs possible on them in a run to give them as high % as possible. I will be waiting for the tryhards telling me this is not true, we are just better that's why our attacks hit harder. LMAO. Go waste your time somewhere else.

But hey... "we don't care let's continue being as selfish as we possibly can and only include the top 10% of players in our groups. We don't care if you do mechanics extremely consistently or if you have an actual working brain and game sense"

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i hate to burst ur bubble, but u r completely wrong

only buffers need to go out of their way to have the highest DPS group (and that hopefully everyone is saving their stuff for buff windows), u as a sam dont give a dusty fuck who is in ur party so long as u get 5% and a decent kill time

getting at least orange is incredibly easy tbh, it just comes down to can u optimise ur rotation (and u need BiS at this point obviously), to be frank 80-90 is a pretty low requirement for how tough DSR is

if u cant get even that u simply do not belong/no semi serious group will take u since that is the only thing one can look at while recruiting

u have to have something on the table urself, cant be expecting groups to take the first person that wants to join

I don't do raiding so I can't exactly understand what's going on, but why is everyone defending the use of parse/combat logs to determine if someone is good enough for the latest ultimate? Regardless of OP's ability, it just seems like arbitrary gatekeeping. Please help me understand what I'm missing.

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Originally Posted by Karious

I don't do raiding so I can't exactly understand what's going on, but why is everyone defending the use of parse/combat logs to determine if someone is good enough for the latest ultimate? Regardless of OP's ability, it just seems like arbitrary gatekeeping. Please help me understand what I'm missing.

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its more of a background check if or when some one did content, it is what most people use it for. and the thing is if there was an official way to check with out so many loops you have to jump though people would do that. its less on the actual parsing part its more of experience because parsing is not as accurate to playing style. cause some people change the jobs rotation a tad to help short comings of the group but in tern can lower parsing.

like last expansion I chose to not do optimal rotations to do the most amount of damage to pick up after my groups short comings(rezing, and tagging trash that is not mine)

Not trying bully anyone into taking me. Are you joking lol? You clearly didn't even read my post. People like you are ruining the game and not giving many good players a chance because all their tiny brains care about is parses from people who spend hours doing log runs like robots. NOTHING skillful about that and it it shouldn't be the only indication that a player knows what they are doing. "I have an entire group buff the hell out of me so that makes me better than the rest". Sure buddy.

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

Not trying bully anyone into taking me. Are you joking lol? You clearly didn't even read my post. People like you are ruining the game and not giving many good players a chance because all their tiny brains care about is parses from people who spend hours doing log runs like robots. NOTHING skillful about that and it it shouldn't be the only indication that a player knows what they are doing. "I have an entire group buff the hell out of me so that makes me better than the rest". Sure buddy.

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As someone said above, by checking your loadstone you've barely cleared any Savage raids, you've not clear any of the pervious Ultimates, plus the fact that SAM is a greedy class with no group synergies leaves you at a place that no one will want to accept you.

If your going to be childish and make a post with a full cap title and then expect people to be sympathetic for your problems while you insult the way that most hard core raiders function then you came to the wrong place.

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Originally Posted by Karious

I don't do raiding so I can't exactly understand what's going on, but why is everyone defending the use of parse/combat logs to determine if someone is good enough for the latest ultimate? Regardless of OP's ability, it just seems like arbitrary gatekeeping. Please help me understand what I'm missing.

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The background check is a fairly good analogy. Pretty much all groups will spend hundreds of hours attempting this fight before they succeed, and even then most will never get to the end(breaking up due to changing time constraints, playstyle differences, or personality differences). The fight itself will require OP to play close to perfectly for 15ish mins - doing all the mechanics without screwing up while keeping up a high level of his DPS rotation(while all 7 of the other players also play just as well). Before committing to potentially spending that much time together, most established groups will want some evidence that you are capable of something close to that level of play. Thats step one. Steps 2 and 3 are usually some sort of interview, and playing with them for a trial(to confirm what you saw in steps 1 and 2). But this is just to join an established static(which, lets face it, can ask whatever they want from people trying to join because its THEIR group). There is nothing in the world stopping the OP from forming a static of his own, attempting to PUG the fight(and hopefully meet players to form a static with), or going back to bolster their "resume" by doing some of the older Ultimate fights.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

The background check is a fairly good analogy. Pretty much all groups will spend hundreds of hours attempting this fight before they succeed, and even then most will never get to the end(breaking up due to changing time constraints, playstyle differences, or personality differences). The fight itself will require OP to play close to perfectly for 15ish mins - doing all the mechanics without screwing up while keeping up a high level of his DPS rotation(while all 7 of the other players also play just as well). Before committing to potentially spending that much time together, most established groups will want some evidence that you are capable of something close to that level of play. Thats step one. Steps 2 and 3 are usually some sort of interview, and playing with them for a trial(to confirm what you saw in steps 1 and 2). But this is just to join an established static(which, lets face it, can ask whatever they want from people trying to join because its THEIR group). There is nothing in the world stopping the OP from forming a static of his own, attempting to PUG the fight(and hopefully meet players to form a static with), or going back to bolster their "resume" by doing some of the older Ultimate fights.

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completely this.
i could apply to most ultimate statics despite me not having cleared any ultimates, i have enough experience since i got logs from stormblood savages, Shadowbringer savages and Endwalker savages, most seeing the curve torwards high blue, high purple in the end (i tend to aim for purple on every fight since it just means I did a good job without relying on RNG DHCRITS)

imagine having someone who does 75% of the DPS required to clear an DPS check, it's possible to still meet it with the others picking up the slack, but is that fair? it isn't in my opinion.
what if someone dies, or gets an damage down (fairly simple in DSR) well, goodbye DPS check because the other 3 DPSers are already performing at the top to carry this person that does below par damage, just a simple fact, combine that with the fact that SAM especially now in 6.1 is extremely selfish, only can use a few set of buffs (only straight up damage buffs, nothing to crit, which is the majority of the raid buffs) and ofcourse, if said person dies once, that's 25% of their total DPS for 2 minutes, they die again? 50% they get a damage down? 50% damage down, it's not like other jobs who bring utility to the table.

OP is being selfish and was hoping for some support, but gets pounded instead xD

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

Not trying bully anyone into taking me. Are you joking lol? You clearly didn't even read my post. People like you are ruining the game and not giving many good players a chance because all their tiny brains care about is parses from people who spend hours doing log runs like robots. NOTHING skillful about that and it it shouldn't be the only indication that a player knows what they are doing. "I have an entire group buff the hell out of me so that makes me better than the rest". Sure buddy.

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As was predictable, op is a troll.

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

Not trying bully anyone into taking me. Are you joking lol? You clearly didn't even read my post. People like you are ruining the game and not giving many good players a chance because all their tiny brains care about is parses from people who spend hours doing log runs like robots. NOTHING skillful about that and it it shouldn't be the only indication that a player knows what they are doing. "I have an entire group buff the hell out of me so that makes me better than the rest". Sure buddy.

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ur OP is full of swearing and shaming ppl who actually put in work

at this point id be surprised if anyone takes u

for the record the hours of parsing r for 99/100 which in all honesty hardly matters, if u got BiS and u know what u r doing u can get a 95+ in a few clean runs

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

Not trying bully anyone into taking me. Are you joking lol? You clearly didn't even read my post. People like you are ruining the game and not giving many good players a chance because all their tiny brains care about is parses from people who spend hours doing log runs like robots. NOTHING skillful about that and it it shouldn't be the only indication that a player knows what they are doing. "I have an entire group buff the hell out of me so that makes me better than the rest". Sure buddy.

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First, we can't read your post anymore you edited it to "Deleted post". In case you didn't know, editing your post to "Deleted" doesn't delete it.
Neither will it fool anyone into thinking the post as been removed by moderators.

Second, you are right about logs, it doesn't takes a lot of skill to make a good performance.
If you are correctly geared, you can land in a 75+ percentile without much efforts.
Therefore anyone should be able to make a good colored number if it's not skillfull.
On the other hand, someone reaching 99 percentile is not always a good player. I've met a few that could do that but were terrible when it came to prog content.

Third, the colored numbers takes in account rDPS. Which means raid DPS, the DPS you bring minus the buff you receive plus the buff you grant to allies.
In short, the website calculate it as if you received no buffs at all.
aDPS is the value that only use the damage you dealt during the battle, without excluding any buffs you received.

Finally, regardless of this, it is a teamgame. You should know and be able to play and burst taking in account your team raid buffs.

With these in mind and that OP sounds offended, I believe OP is not a troll but simply an unexperienced user that discovers the world of internet interaction and MMOs.
Your situation feels unfair but believe me that later, you will agree with these rules. They exist for a reason, for a smooth and fun prog.

Parsing logs is largely just getting a group of like minded people to go do it till you get the good parse you want. Shows you how good a person is at that specific fight, or whether or not they put the effort in to getting one. Though, being able to parse a fight well does mean you understand mechanics and things like knowing when to do your stuff.

Side note, reason the OP edited it is salty comments. Yeah, kind of a dick move to say, but, not entirely unexpected either. I still don't know what the hell anyone would expect a dev to do if a group wouldn't want you though because they want logs. Tell them to take you even if you suck? I wouldn't stick around in a group if it couldn't meet the basic dps check of the two knights, for sure.

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Originally Posted by Ruminous

The devs are going to do nothing about this...Because there is no obligation for them to do anything about it. They can't tell players to take samurais into groups or exclude them because we the players have the right to decide who goes and who doesn't. Would it make sense for yoship to come over and tell you that you have to take that bard? No, it wouldn't.

Best you can do is just report them, for all the good it'll do. But, here's the thing. Ultimate fights are demanding, challenging, and more importantly, set up differently than a typical savage fight. Some classes excel at these kinds of fights strictly because of how they're laid out. Samurai has never been the best choice for ultimates, despite being able to clear them. I know, I played samurai for every ultimate up till now. I know you're ranting, and it sucks, but you can't expect the devs to force people to take you into their groups either. It'd just breed resentment among your peers, and that's just as bad as being excluded.

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You are one of 2 or 3 people here that understand what my rant was about and I appreciate the good advice. Thank you.

My wording wasn't the best and it pissed a lot of people off so I deleted it once I calmed down, but like most people I reached a point where I was sick and tired of something and the forums are the only place I thought of venting, big mistake though as I am probably one the most hated people here after my rant. This is my 2nd thread and will be the last.

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

You are one of 2 or 3 people here that understand what my rant was about and I appreciate the good advice. Thank you.

My wording wasn't the best and it pissed a lot of people off so I deleted it once I calmed down, but like most people I reached a point where I was sick and tired of something and the forums are the only place I thought of venting, big mistake though as I am probably one the most hated people here after my rant. This is my 2nd thread and will be the last.

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Yeah, venting on the forums is very hit or miss. But if it's tied to something completely player fueled, there's very little the devs can do about it. Even if we cut away logs, people would look for other ways for you to prove yourself. But speaking as someone who has been excluded because of class choice, I've known how it feels and how frustrating it is. People sometimes need a chance to soar, and not everyone likes to give it. As many have said, logs are just there to show you have some grasp of your class and weren't just carried through the content. Still doesn't mean you're good, but shows you do have aptitude.

Still, if you're that determined to get in there, then keep trying. If one thing doesn't work, try something different. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something new? But, in the future, try and find friends or someone who'll listen to you rant. Public forums don't always invite the best of us, or the most empathetic.

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Originally Posted by Kabouter

You are one of 2 or 3 people here that understand what my rant was about and I appreciate the good advice. Thank you.

My wording wasn't the best and it pissed a lot of people off so I deleted it once I calmed down, but like most people I reached a point where I was sick and tired of something and the forums are the only place I thought of venting, big mistake though as I am probably one the most hated people here after my rant. This is my 2nd thread and will be the last.

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your original post came off as "waaah, people decline me because i'm not an parser"
the main issue is that you were venting about an problem that SE won't ever do anything about because of an very simple fact.
if it was for Savage, joining an casual static they rarely ask for logs, but once you got higher than casual they slowly ask for logs, why? because they want to see how concistent you are, they can analyze your logs, see what you parsed, see what your personal DPS is (for SAM RDPS is concistent because you don't give DPS to others)
see where you died and perhaps even see an growth. (i went from an 0-1% rdm parser to 80-90% rdm parser for example)

people don't want to waste their time trialing you out, you might be a good fit personality wise, but we're talking about ultimate, not casual content, you might fit personality wise, but do you fit playstyle wise?
as some have pointed out, applying for statics is very much like an job application, you got competition, then you need to outperform your competition, sure it's not according to ToS, but prove it, screenshot the discord message and report it, open that can of worms, then we won't talk about parses in discord either and we create that toxic minefield there aswel.

when i applied for statics i just gave them my fflogs profile, most were like "we don't need them, we'll trial you out" some liked me, some didn't, that's how it is.