Been seeing a lot of doomsaying in forums/in-game lately

Is everyone okay, does anyone wanna talk, like for serious is everyone doing okay, need a break or anything?

There's some good points made here and there but its mostly just people and their hot takes.

<sigh> and now I'm gonna be labeled as a toxic positive person...great...

If there are a lot of unhappy people then something needs to be addressed.

Like, I'm sorry but... Unhappy people on this scale isn't just a coincidence. It isn't a "loud niche" or clique. People are welcome to argue whether or not said unhappiness is being expressed constructively but this isn't something I believe can be handwaved away.

I think the Doomsaying is really just on the forums. I don't see it in the game at all. Not in NN, linkshells, FC, parties I join for farming, BLU, maps or hunts. They are all having fun.

I've seen people talk about their frustrations about healers in the game for years but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I think the Doomsaying is really just on the forums. I don't see it in the game at all. Not in NN, linkshells, FC, parties I join for farming, BLU, maps or hunts. They are all having fun.

I've seen people talk about their frustrations about healers in the game for years but that's about it.

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I've had the opposite. I've seen a lot of people be unhappy about PVP-related nonsense and Viera/Hroths feeling disgruntled about being given the shaft once again.

I think things just hit a breaking point after the whole housing debacle, though there's always been unified shades of discontent with virtually every aspect of the game for one reason or another.

Some people really need to realize that's not a bad thing though, and that the game does have genuine issues that are being mishandled if not outright ignored for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I think the Doomsaying is really just on the forums. I don't see it in the game at all. Not in NN, linkshells, FC, parties I join for farming, BLU, maps or hunts. They are all having fun.

I've seen people talk about their frustrations about healers in the game for years but that's about it.

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Pretty much how I feel. I mean you do see a bit of it leak such as hrothgar hairs/lottery fiasco and even job design into more open media outlets like twitter and even YT but most of those same outlets tend to focus on people sharing interests with the game itself, characters, fan art etc and that I see a heck a lot more than people being generally "unhappy" as some like to believe.

Its more so people feel the need to have their opinions universally validated which is sad and unrealistic. The official FFXIV Forums is really just one outlet of reception and since people usually use this as an outlet for basic feedback and complaints this is what you tend to see most often. I bet if you go back to all the previous threads since the start of 2.0, the forum's attitude would be....mostly unchanged lol. People still complain and feel unhappy since day flippin 1

Im not saying this to downplay people wanting to give their thoughts...well sorta kinda not really. It complicated. But at this point you learn that this is just the nature of these forums and really shouldnt be expecting lots of praise for the game here. And like I said, some of the feedback I find here and there is overall good and should be taken to consideration.

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Originally Posted by Denji

If there are a lot of unhappy people then something needs to be addressed.

Like, I'm sorry but... Unhappy people on this scale isn't just a coincidence. It isn't a "loud niche" or clique. People are welcome to argue whether or not said unhappiness is being expressed constructively but this isn't something I believe can be handwaved away.

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I have yet to find a general forum for a game that isn’t filled with complaints. Whether we can extrapolate anything from it is questionable.

From what Yoshi P has said, this is what we are supposed to do. Go on the forums, and discuss things we like and dislike as feed back for them to create better content.

I think a lot of this doom and gloom has been that this expansion has had a lot of issues so far. You had the crazy queue times at launch, the housing issue, and class changes and reworks that are controversial. While many players think that this has been the best expansion story so far, others think it has been the worst. So I can see why people are vocally upset, with what all has been dealt with this expansion.

Outside of that, it feels more concrete than last expansion that the devs are going in a direction with the game that divides the player base as well. Some people like the simpler job design and more accessibility while others find it is affecting content they enjoy. So there is a lot of controversy over all. I will leave it with what Denji Said

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Originally Posted by Denji

If there are a lot of unhappy people then something needs to be addressed.

Like, I'm sorry but... Unhappy people on this scale isn't just a coincidence. It isn't a "loud niche" or clique. People are welcome to argue whether or not said unhappiness is being expressed constructively but this isn't something I believe can be handwaved away.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

From what Yoshi P has said, this is what we are supposed to do. Go on the forums, and discuss things we like and dislike as feed back for them to create better content.

I think a lot of this doom and gloom has been that this expansion has had a lot of issues so far. You had the crazy queue times at launch, the housing issue, and class changes and reworks that are controversial. While many players think that this has been the best expansion story so far, others think it has been the worst. So I can see why people are vocally upset, with what all has been dealt with this expansion.

Outside of that, it feels more concrete than last expansion that the devs are going in a direction with the game that divides the player base as well. Some people like the simpler job design and more accessibility while others find it is affecting content they enjoy. So there is a lot of controversy over all. I will leave it with what Denji Said

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When is there ever not controversy? Didnt I hear people actually complain of the state of Shadowbringers? Despite being lauded as the best expansion this game had, a lot of people here still had their complaints? I dont even want to know how the forums handled Stormblood, and I'm sure Heavensward and ARR era days were just as negative and bad. Basically I believe there never was a time in these forums where "everyone was content and satisfied" otherwise we wouldnt even have this game constantly improve.

The forums has been over flooded with 6.1’s approach thus far & alot of topics has been addressed about it,

Can’t deny how others feel & you’ll have to understand in their shoes when you invest much on an MMO game you dearly you truly come to care & get easily concern,

Some individuals may over react, some might be far too subjective & impulsive, others bring a fairly good point overall 6.1 & eventually EW’s flaws, overall its been the most heavily hit with mixed feelings but more often not pleasing & you’ll have to see it in both side of the spectrum

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

When is there ever not controversy? Didnt I hear people actually complain of the state of Shadowbringers? Despite being lauded as the best expansion this game had, a lot of people here still had their complaints? I dont even want to know how the forums handled Stormblood, and I'm sure Heavensward and ARR era days were just as negative and bad. Basically I believe there never was a time in these forums where "everyone was content and satisfied" otherwise we wouldnt even have this game constantly improve.

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Depends as what you define as the best expansion. ShB has the best story I will give it that. Outside of that the content was lacking, and the class design took a huge hit, which is why I said this expansion made it more concrete with the direction the devs were going.

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Originally Posted by DubiousDisk

Is everyone okay, does anyone wanna talk, like for serious is everyone doing okay, need a break or anything?

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Nah I’m not ok. I feel so far removed from whatever vision the devs seem to have for this game. I’ve been an AST main since StB and finally gave up on healing because they obviously aren’t going to listen to the years of feedback on healers. The style of storytelling I loved from HW isn’t coming back, and the only thing keeping me coming back to the game is solo deep dungeon prog.

I guess I’ll just have to suck it up and…forge ahead
https://i.imgur.com/IIb7vpg_d.webp?m...idelity=medium

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Depends as what you define as the best expansion. ShB has the best story I will give it that. Outside of that the content was lacking, and the class design took a huge hit, which is why I said this expansion made it more concrete with the direction the devs were going.

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Exactly my point. Everywhere I go I see people praise Shadowbringers for being the best expansion....but its usually because of story, while others scoff at Stormblood....but its because of the story.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Exactly my point. Everywhere I go I see people praise Shadowbringers for being the best expansion....but its usually because of story, while others scoff at Stormblood....but its because of the story.

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Story fans be story fans? I don't know what to tell you there.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

<sigh> and now I'm gonna be labeled as a toxic positive person...great...

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Well then stop talking positively about FFXIV and speaking against the angry mob.
You should hate the game and say everything is bad.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

When is there ever not controversy? Didnt I hear people actually complain of the state of Shadowbringers? Despite being lauded as the best expansion this game had, a lot of people here still had their complaints? I dont even want to know how the forums handled Stormblood, and I'm sure Heavensward and ARR era days were just as negative and bad. Basically I believe there never was a time in these forums where "everyone was content and satisfied" otherwise we wouldnt even have this game constantly improve.

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It’s been an incredible experience watching people go from complaining about the issues with SHB to stating it’s the best. So much doom and gloom and now it’s seen as the glory years. I’ll look forward to Endwalker getting the same treatment at the expense of whatever comes next, should be interesting lol

There are two quotes I am reminded of anytime there is a change followed by people who rage at every little thing...

Every community is a gull gliding over a sea of spite, eager for carrion, all to ready to steal, and all too quick to squawk when stolen from.

But given time, horror fades, and repetition makes what was unthinkable now normal; the monstrous is made manageable. For mankind adapts to every horror.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I think the Doomsaying is really just on the forums. I don't see it in the game at all. Not in NN, linkshells, FC, parties I join for farming, BLU, maps or hunts. They are all having fun.

I've seen people talk about their frustrations about healers in the game for years but that's about it.

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Pretty much. It's pretty much a bunch of disgruntled people threatening to quit every other day and talking about how the game is failing so horribly and is getting worse by the day... yet everything else indicates that the game is growing, most people are enjoying it.

But it's very normal for any official forum. Any change, outside of big damage buffs, is met with trepidation, fear and loathing most of the time, and anything added to the game usually gets fully ignored to focus on what may be missing. Aka, everyone here is a cynic.

I just put the worst of them on ignore. There are some good discussions that happen, but there are unfortunately too many who just end up being condescending or attack people for actually enjoying the game, flaws and all.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

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I like your take, but i think it goes both ways. The official forums is like the medium of FFXIV discussion. Both sides can talk it out a little bit more than the other platforms. Not as spicy as 2/4 chan but not as defensive as Reddit/twitter.

You're easily get piled on for saying something negative here as you will saying something positive. Its just here you have a chance of running into someone that has the same viewpoints.

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Originally Posted by Denji

If there are a lot of unhappy people then something needs to be addressed.

Like, I'm sorry but... Unhappy people on this scale isn't just a coincidence. It isn't a "loud niche" or clique. People are welcome to argue whether or not said unhappiness is being expressed constructively but this isn't something I believe can be handwaved away.

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Happens literally every expansion. Majority of it is just rehashed and reused vitriol and hot takes. But all of it is from the Minority of overall players who are largely never satisfied with the games direction. The same users have been commenting about something bad at literally every thread complaining about some aspect of the game. If you find every single thing about the game bad, you could just idk...leave?

But the bigger issue is there is seemingly a lack of forum moderation which is not limiting these constantly reappearing threads on the exact topic to one thread or timing out people who are clearly spamming the forums.

Some of it is people trying to say things exist between lines of recent events that don't actually exist.
A larger amount of it is ppl claiming the game is headed for failure because something they personally don't like exists in the game.
Part of it is certain ppl coming here trying to promote another game they're playing over FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by DubiousDisk

Is everyone okay, does anyone wanna talk, like for serious is everyone doing okay, need a break or anything?

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I mean, talking is kind of the point of these forums no? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I dont even want to know how the forums handled Stormblood, and I'm sure Heavensward and ARR era days were just as negative and bad. Basically I believe there never was a time in these forums where "everyone was content and satisfied" otherwise we wouldnt even have this game constantly improve.

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It was the same. Stormblood had a lot of launch maintenance because people could not progress in the MSQ when the solo battle instances were full. Worlds were full because of people getting around the auto-logout, but instead of fixing it in Stormblood, they were emptied of players once a day. You also had people who didn't think it was as good as Heavensward. The rest was the same sort of complaints such as not having level 90 abilities in Sastasha.

In all honesty XIV has taken a turn downward content wise, job design wise, community wise, etc...It just does not feel like the solid game it once was. It's has its points still, but I don't know how long it can sustain this direction before irreparable damage is done.

Please justice for healers. I have 3 buttons. I don't want to quit after I clear DSRU.

I have not seen any doomsaying in-game. People barely talk in-game to begin with.

The forums have always attracted people whose main agenda is to criticize the game (for better or for worse), because this is Squeenix's official forum. Other social media platforms don't share that agenda, and don't rally behind every notion of '' game bad now '' (for better or for worse).

I am not saying criticism is bad or invalid, I have my issues with the game as well, but I don't think this forum is a good way to evaluate how majority of the players think or feel.

there has always been doomsaying in the forums.
it's been there 5 years ago
it's here now
it'll be here 5 years from now

The amount of complaints on the forum is directly related to how many issues there are. Currently? there's a lot of major ones and if it isnt there already, its reaching breaking point soon.

A lot of longterm issues simply are not being addressed or outright ignored.

-Healers getting shafted since SB launch with whm's destruction and the utterly appalling changes shb did. Yoshida deliberately ignoring feedback "go play ultimate" is what he answered my question with and didn't have the courtesy to read it properly
-Jobs across the board have been homogenised and dumbed down to the point where most of them have no depth at all and many play similarly. Not a single resource based job exists now, they are all based on rotations. The dps community only woke up to this with Kaiten
-Battle design is getting easier and easier, to the point most content is faceroll and even extremes and some savage fights are barely a challenge. Some dont even need healers! Where's the midcore challenge?
-Housing
-Lack of content or even meaningful repeat content. 6.1's content could be done in 6 hours. There wasn't anything on 6.0s launch either. There is STILL no relic despite askings for it to be on 6.0s launch.
-Viera/hrothgar treatment
-More things are being delayed or cut entirely, even an entire garlemald expansion and now an extra delay to 4 months per patch nd for what? This patch is the most buggy since 2.0 so its clearly not QA as yoshida stated
-The story of 6.1 left many disappointed, and the new story this patch not only killed off the hype it generated but it was a retread of skalla. If even the story is getting crap, then what about the rest of the game? The only core compenent of ff14's experience that hasn't gone downhill is the music

pvp was a surprise because imbalanced as it is, the overall direction is much better than the constant drive for accessibility over the years has given

Mostly it feels like we have three or four actual topics of conversation spread across ten to fifteen threads apiece.

Honestly I think its just because the game feels like its reaching a breaking point and the devs do nothing about it.
From job design (Healers especially) to the content, housing or even purely cosmetic things like Viera/Hrothgars it really feels the game is going downhill and instead of addressing the issues it seems like the devs are just deaf towards our complaints and only want to stick to the same old formula that may or may not work anymore

I think Meteion is singing for us now :( Oh nooooooooo

To be honest I feel the real danger is focusing too much on the forums.

Most casual players aka the majority simply leave if the game doesnt agree with them, no point wasting time arguing with forum randos. Going by games like WoW it actually feels more dangerous to listen to forums because you end up trying to design a game around often the most tryhard and unhealthy toxic people by listening to them instead of the silent droves that left, hence why unsubscribe feedback is important.

FF14 doesnt have any big glaring issues, job design will always have people who have issues with it, I myself dislike the lack of utility since it makes dungeons boring since I want to do more than dps for example but its not "that" game breaking. It has a few issues but nothing feel as enormous to consider worth of doomsaying

And the story is the story, I obviously would have much preferred to join Emet against Venat and bring back the old factually better world than what we got.
What we got has some minor plot holes but it was mostly handled well, it didnt feel ridiculous or stupid like the average western game story ending.

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Originally Posted by Ralphe2449

FF14 doesnt have any big glaring issues

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Good to know that Healers being useless in most content, including some current Savages an Extremes is not a glaring issue.

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

Good to know that Healers being useless in most content, including some current Savages an Extremes is not a glaring issue.

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Not all healers feel like you do. You know I'm sure the dev team has heard the call for more dps centric healers but they're not listening it's not what they want.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Not all healers feel like you do. You know I'm sure the dev team has head the call for more dps centric healers but they're not listening it's not what they want.

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This is no 'feeling' Dungeons, EXs and Savage being cleared with no Healers is a fact.

In fact, setting up a pf for a tankonly aglaia run, waiting for it to fill, and clearing that raid easily with 24 tanks is currently faster than even getting in as a Tank via DF.
If there were no glaring issues with the game, that should not be the case, not even close. Doing something without most roles in a trinity based mmo should not be the easiest and fastest way to do any max lvl content

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Not all healers feel like you do. You know I'm sure the dev team has head the call for more dps centric healers but they're not listening it's not what they want.

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He's not talking about opinions, healers ARE useless in most content. Most of dungeons can be soloed by tanks and consistently cleared with just tanks and dps, Ucob has been cleared by tanks only, we've seen tank only clears of all the normal mode raids (and even the 1 tank clear of P1N), P1s and P2s, unless mechanics that could cause a wipe target healers is pretty normal for extreme farms to have only 1 or no healers at all (and aside from endsinger both EW Exs have been cleared without healers) and even in savage and ultimate healers spam their main damage spell far more than all of the heals they use combined and there are far far more examples.

At this point there is no such a thing as dps centric healers, just healers that know how their role works and healers that don't

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

Good to know that Healers being useless in most content, including some current Savages an Extremes is not a glaring issue.

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Well as a person who never in their life has or will play support that sounds great, the more self sufficiency for me, the better xd

The healer role has far too often end up existing in mmorpgs to save people from their mistakes which aint a good thing tbh

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

He's not talking about opinions, healers ARE useless in most content. Most of dungeons can be soloed by tanks and consistently cleared with just tanks and dps, Ucob has been cleared by tanks only, we've seen tank only clears of all the normal mode raids (and even the 1 tank clear of P1N), P1s and P2s, unless mechanics that could cause a wipe target healers is pretty normal for extreme farms to have only 1 or no healers at all (and aside from endsinger both EW Exs have been cleared without healers) and even in savage and ultimate healers spam their main damage spell far more than all of the heals they use combined and there are far far more examples.

At this point there is no such a thing as dps centric healers, just healers that know how their role works and healers that don't

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I don't agree. The important thing is that healers have been singing this tune for years and the development team isn't listening. They are not interested in enabling more green dps.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I don't agree. The important thing is that healers have been singing this toon for years and the development team isn't listening.

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Agree on what? All I've told you are facts, you can check the tank only Ucob clear, you can see in youtube all the heal-less runs I've mentioned. There is nothing to agree with there, is just the reality of the game as it is now, like how the devs aren't listening nor have a job designer that plays healer either

Edit cause your edit needed it:

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They are not interested in enabling more green dps.

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Then why on hell would they:
-Design content with dps checks that can't be cleared without green dps?
-Design dps spells that are far more efficient mp wise than any heal?
-Design oGCD tools that prevent healers from not dpsing?
-Give dps spells 1.5s cast time to weave said healing tools?
-Create Sage a healer that HEALS WHILE USING DAMAGE SPELLS?

As I've said previously, there aren't dps centric healers, just healers that know how to play and healers that don't.