6.11 PVE Changes are utterly tone deaf

GNBs have been complaining about movement being cluncky during continuation windows, and 90s bloodfest being awkward. SAM's iai cast ranged was increased to alleviate stress from the increased number of iai casts, but they refuse to do the same for GNB.

MCH got 120 extra potency every 2 mins. This 120 potency cannot crit or direct hit. Also, Hypercharge is still not on a stack system.

and SAM. Both the JP and NA forums have expressed an almost unanimous negative feedback over the past two weeks. Kaiten removal makes gameplay boring, autocrit lessens the impact of individual attacks and guts party synergy, tenka goken was nerfed without autocrit and casting a circle in a pack of mob feels bad, the list goes on.

Bandaid potency buffs just shows a complete lack of competancy and ignorance of player feedback

I understand that there may not be enough time to do thorough, sweeping changes in just two weeks.

But how about just saying something to the effects of "we have listened to your feedback"?

Because the patchnote gives the exact opposite impression: that all of our feedback are being ignored.

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

It's 120 pot, Wildfire can have 6 gcds in it. But yeah, complete garbage slap in the face buff.

Yet another instance of being exceedingly careful with PvE MCH for basically no discernible reason. But it's better than nothing? I guess? Maybe?

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Originally Posted by Supermancav

It's 120 pot, Wildfire can have 6 gcds in it. But yeah, complete garbage slap in the face buff.

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What, it's not the BEST BUFF EVAR?

Seriously, I want to sit in for a meeting or two on class balance and design just to see what these people are saying. I am intensely curious on what goes on behind those doors. 'cuz it sure isn't anything about good class design or how to address some nagging concerns about their classes!

"Better than nothing" is how we all got here. It isn't. None of our jobs deserve this treatment.

I wasn’t expecting any big changes just yet, and yet I am still disappointed. Couldn’t have given Machinist charges at least..? Works well enough for Reaper…and everything else with charges.

I’m still going to hope that things change this expansion, but this is going to be a real long waiting game…

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Originally Posted by Roxus

"Better than nothing" is how we all got here. It isn't. None of our jobs deserve this treatment.

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Trust me, I'm in full agreement on this one. Shelved Machinist entirely for this tier, though it was probably a long time coming. Hopefully they figure something out with Samurai too, though I'm sure we're all highly doubtful.

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Originally Posted by Feayn

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

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There are MANY ways to reduce number of skills on SAM but you can keep with your trolling here.

You like to spam shinten on controller? "samurai main"

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Originally Posted by Stasya

There are MANY ways to reduce number of skills on SAM but you can keep with your trolling here.

You like to spam shinten on controller? "samurai main"

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You'd better think and consider if I don't mean me, but other "Samurai Mains" who play on the controller ;)

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Originally Posted by Feayn

You'd better think and consider if I don't mean me, but other "Samurai Mains" who play on the controller ;)

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I have saw zero people who main SAM and play on controller that were up for both awful changes but keep going, dont forget to post on JP forums^^

Again for trolls like you: devs can lower not existing skill bloat by merging abilities together ....

I don't think they will ever bring gameplay changes in a minor patch.
MCH is another band-aid.
GNB is actually a good buff, not necessary but welcome. I agree with the range increase and QoL for continuation, but Bloodfest on 90s allows a lot of burst window variations, I believe they can keep it on 90s.
SAM, they could have brought kaiten back and revert the whole thing, kinda surprising they didn't.

I'm guessing SE couldn't do any substantial changes other than potency buffs for this patch. What is important however is that more communication between the job balance teams and the community is needed going forward. There's a lot they could do for MCH and they decide on buffing Wildfire?

They couldn't have even given it AOE or something for PVE...yeesh.

I was really hoping for some kinda fix for GNB's continuation. An easy fix would be to add range as you mentioned. Not sure why SE not considering it.

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Originally Posted by MegaUltrachicken

I'm guessing SE couldn't do any substantial changes other than potency buffs for this patch. What is important however is that more communication between the job balance teams and the community is needed going forward. There's a lot they could do for MCH and they decide on buffing Wildfire?

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The thing is, unless ff14 code is worse than team fortress 2 one, they could easily revert SAM but they just dont care at all. These "buffs" is just an insult with taste of "we are right about killing SAM go play other classes".

Why are they so allergic to giving MCH anything other than incredibly minor potency buffs? Are they so afraid that making it do decent damage will ruin their "balance"??? Its 60s bursts are already dead in the water thanks to the NIN TA/Mug changes, this just feels like another kick to the groin.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Why are they so allergic to giving MCH anything other than incredibly minor potency buffs? Are they so afraid that making it do decent damage will ruin their "balance"??? Its 60s bursts are already dead in the water thanks to the NIN TA/Mug changes, this just feels like another kick to the groin.

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I'm pretty sure because Machinist is so mobile, they're afraid of giving it more damage...but Blast Charge literally exists.

I'm hoping in the coming future they'll at the very least move somewhere close to my document path, or at least give some kind of substantial GOOD change for once...and then keep doing it until it's actually good to use.

And yes, this is considering the fact that most jobs are becoming more mobile in general which makes even less sense but whatever puts the team at ease I guess.

Don't forget another major potency pain point was Tenka Goken for Samurai, and they didn't touch it at all. Addressing our issues and acknowledging them would go a long way even if they can't fix anything yet. We need to stop being content with this level of communication.

I'm sure they are playing the game. Idk where they play it but not in reality.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

The thing is, unless ff14 code is worse than team fortress 2 one, they could easily revert SAM but they just dont care at all. These "buffs" is just an insult with taste of "we are right about killing SAM go play other classes".

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Heh. I was thinking this about the devs when it came to the 6.11 "changes".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR82_cpW9Dc

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Originally Posted by Roxus

Don't forget another major potency pain point was Tenka Goken for Samurai, and they didn't touch it at all. Addressing our issues and acknowledging them would go a long way even if they can't fix anything yet. We need to stop being content with this level of communication.

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I remember once upon a time, Xenosys brought up an idea that for the patch notes, there should be little descriptions as to why they were made. That way we could at least figure out the thought process as to why they did what they did. Forgot which video it is, but it really would be an interesting bit of insight...

A simple buff for MCH could have been increasing the 20 potency buff from Hypercharge and make it affect AoE weaponskills as well. If they ain't gonna replace flamethrower they can do that at least.

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Originally Posted by Feayn

You'd better think and consider if I don't mean me, but other "Samurai Mains" who play on the controller ;)

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I'm a Sam main on controller and I want Kaiten back asap. Do not speak for me please.

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Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

I'm sure they are playing the game. Idk where they play it but not in reality.

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They do play the game. Just not SAM, since the 6.11 band-aid are an insult to peoples' intelligence.

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Originally Posted by Feayn

You'd better think and consider if I don't mean me, but other "Samurai Mains" who play on the controller ;)

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PS4 player here and can’t stand the changes to SAM and I’m sure some people love having less buttons but the numbers done lie, they are a very very small majority

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Originally Posted by Feayn

You'd better think and consider if I don't mean me, but other "Samurai Mains" who play on the controller ;)

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YOU do NOT speak for us

Well, some potency buffs for SAM, but it completely missed the mark. No major complaints were addressed, dont think anyone really asked only for potency buffs. I get that its a minor patch, but I still feel disappointed. Adding comment for traction to the thread, hoping for substantial changes in 6.2. Wouldnt mind them completely reverting the changes back to 6.08.

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Originally Posted by MikoRemi

I remember once upon a time, Xenosys brought up an idea that for the patch notes, there should be little descriptions as to why they were made. That way we could at least figure out the thought process as to why they did what they did. Forgot which video it is, but it really would be an interesting bit of insight...

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Wouldnt help, on a recent interview I remember yoshida saying "in intern, we are seeing that mch is doing a lot of damage so we dont understand why people say that, maybe it's because they are using a third party tools that maybe isn't updated". The same way mch were the first to ask for charges, since at least stormblood and we didnt get any because, i quote "we want jobs to stay unique and not all be the same".

Even if they were putting explanations, it would be tone deaf things like that

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Originally Posted by Aiscence

Wouldnt help, on a recent interview I remember yoshida saying "in intern, we are seeing that mch is doing a lot of damage so we dont understand why people say that, maybe it's because they are using a third party tools that maybe isn't updated". The same way mch were the first to ask for charges, since at least stormblood and we didnt get any because, i quote "we want jobs to stay unique and not all be the same".

Even if they were putting explanations, it would be tone deaf things like that

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At least with that example, there's plenty of ways to show Machinist damage not being that high thanks to the various players who have worked on essentially mathing and planning everything out.

I find that last quote ironic though because uniqueness has slowly been going out the window as is anyway. I'd rather at least know what they're thinking though on paper just so it can be pointed out and questioned when it's super tone deaf, or at the very least understandable when it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Feayn

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

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I'm sorry but this is such a bad take.. we on controllers have access to around 48 slots for skills before we even press R1 to change to the 2nd tab..

if your running outta space your hotbars are not setup right and that's on you not other players. There is no need to remove buttons yet and it's obvious to people that the majority of SAM players hate the change

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Originally Posted by Feayn

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

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If you think controllers don't have room for the SAM toolkit, you aren't using the cross hotbar to its fullest potential.

Don't speak for others by way of opinion. An opinion is inherently yours alone until someone else chooses to agree.

Being on controller is absolutely irrelevant as to whether or not Kaiten is a problem.

Source: Me, a controller player who wants Kaiten back.

As a controller player we are not lacking space at all.

The changes to MCH are welcomed but simply not enough.

The SAM buffs are welcomed but at the same time they are not because they "fixed" a job that didnt need fixing.

GNB buffs. Really? They can give GNB buffs but cant give DRK any self sustain whatsoever?

We will have to wait for 6.2 for any meaningful changes. But for now thank you SE for at least giving us some changes.

Typical SE :3

They'll listen eventually tho!

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Originally Posted by Feayn

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

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I'm also a controller player, you must be very bad at layouts. Give me back kaiten.

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Originally Posted by Feayn

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

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Okay this is totally bs, I use a controller on pc. I was able to execute kaiten with no problem at all and able to maintain my rotation with it.

I think you made this one up just to justify on WHY kaiten should be removed, even though it WAS NEVER the main problem.

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Originally Posted by Feayn

Sry i'm not agreed with what you mean. For a controller player is the removel from the Skill Hissatsu Kaiten very good and I dont want it back.

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Sorry, I do not agree with you either. As a controller player myself, not only was Kaiten not a problem in the first place (SAM in comparison to other FFXIV classes hardly has any issue with button/action bloat. Its just not true).

That being said, even if button bloat was a problem, there are endless suggestions that have been presented that would fix button bloat without removing core aspects of the class. There were plenty of ways of trimming down on the buttons without making the class game-play boneheadedly dull.

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Originally Posted by WorldPeacElbow

I'm a Sam main on controller and I want Kaiten back asap. Do not speak for me please.

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Dito.

Main SAM on Controller without any issue. Feayn does not speak for me. SAM on controller was fine (in fact, I'd argue one of the best classes to actually play on the controller).

I don't even need a button bloat fix. Its fine as it was. But if there is going to be a fix, there are numerous simple changes that could have been made without robbing the job of flavor and feel.

The combination of specific skills has been suggested endlessly in the forum and the removal of kaiten was entirely illogical (at least in regards to the excuses provided for its removal so far).

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Originally Posted by Feayn

You'd better think and consider if I don't mean me, but other "Samurai Mains" who play on the controller ;)

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Loads of other SAM's on controller have voiced that they find Kaiten to be perfectly fine as it was and have had no issues with "button bloat" as described by SE, or anyone else for that matter. A cursory examination of one of the many, many threads about SAM would have shown you this. Ctrl+F "controller" to help sort each page.