Living Dead Fix

1. Give it the HG cooldown timer (One of the longest)
2. Make it so you can turn it on like tank stance with no expiration
3. upon taking a blow that would kill you the cooldown timer triggers and you get walking dead
4. You then have 10 seconds to press the inlvun button which has turned into "back from the dead" or something like that manually which brings you to full health
5. If you don't do it in time you die

this sounds like a unique take on a invuln with some nuance and skill expression and it makes it incredibly useful as its the one invuln that procs on death.

Also seeing as its pretty OP it does deserve a longer CD timer like PLDs

I think this would be vastly better.

This is completely broken. And a bad idea.

i'm not gonna lie, this is a really unique take and honestly really interesting. and honestly at this point most anything would be better than how living dead is right now.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

This is completely broken. And a bad idea.

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As broken as WAR can be. Its time for DRK to stands out

That would be a very broken and OP ability.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

As broken as WAR can be. Its time for DRK to stands out

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Yeah, no job should have an invuln they can just.... Leave up the whole fight in case it's needed..

This is completely broken, far more than war is.

And you act like DRK hasn't had its time to shine in the past. When it released, PLD was sidelined for a whole expansion.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

This is completely broken. And a bad idea.

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Define broken. Is it broken because the other tanks have to press one button before a tank buster whereas DRK can just do it beforehand in exchange for a longer CD? I'm not sure how that is "skill" or any more broken than hallowed ground which only presses the button and takes no damage for the duration.

More over it compensates for DRKs lack of sustain so it would be really complimenting whereas other tanks have more powerful self heals.

And you still have to press a button to not die, it just comes after, not before. Big whoop.

Lastly for something to be broken you have to ask the question "Why would this make DRK a must bring to any type of content over other tanks" and having cleared multiple savage tiers and all 3 ultimates I can say with 100% certainty this doesn't make me prefer DRK any more than the other tank classes. It's a neutral change and a QOL fix for the class.

If anything in SHB DRK was a terrible choice for lvl 70 Ults because it was missing one mitigation, Nothing to do with invulns.

Every time you activate Walking Dead but fail to meet the healing check, it should select and delete a thread from General Discussion instead of killing you.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

1. Give it the HG cooldown timer (One of the longest)
2. Make it so you can turn it on like tank stance with no expiration
3. upon taking a blow that would kill you the cooldown timer triggers and you get walking dead
4. You then have 10 seconds to press the inlvun button which has turned into "back from the dead" or something like that manually which brings you to full health
5. If you don't do it in time you die

this sounds like a unique take on a invuln with some nuance and skill expression and it makes it incredibly useful as its the one invuln that procs on death.

Also seeing as its pretty OP it does deserve a longer CD timer like PLDs

I think this would be vastly better.

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eh paladins is op as its just a pop and cant be touched what so ever

living dead you still can be hit and killed durng it to be honest all they did to it was allow u to midgate but if the healer does not heal you during u still can die...

Paladins is op though because its pop and bubble cant be touched, living dead isnt op at all lol

Now warriors needs a touch up and completely changed tbh you can easily forget warriors even have one lol

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Every time you activate Walking Dead but fail to meet the healing check, it should select and delete a thread from General Discussion instead of killing you.

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SE please hire this person.

I'm more partial to being able to select a party mate to die in your stead.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Every time you activate Walking Dead but fail to meet the healing check, it should select and delete a thread from General Discussion instead of killing you.

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A random thread or a thread specifically about Living Dead?

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Originally Posted by HyonaCookie

A random thread or a thread specifically about Living Dead?

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Heck it can even be this thread only. But until I hear a sound argument as to why this would be broken or make DRK stand out over other tanks I have to think it’s just a knee jerk reaction over DRKs invuln being unique and actually good.

At the end of the day WAR being able to self Benedict every time blood whetting is up makes him preferable in dungeons and whichever variety of tank happens to be doing the most damage that expansion would be preferable for speed runs.

I think the answer is this doesn’t change much about the game. And quite frankly nobody acknowledges a tank as being good because of his ability to press an invulnerable button.

So I’m still waiting for a sound reason this isn’t better than current living dead.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Heck it can even be this thread only. But until I hear a sound argument as to why this would be broken or make DRK stand out over other tanks I have to think it’s just a knee jerk reaction over DRKs invuln being unique and actually good.

At the end of the day WAR being able to self Benedict every time blood whetting is up makes him preferable in dungeons and whichever variety of tank happens to be doing the most damage that expansion would be preferable for speed runs.

I think the answer is this doesn’t change much about the game. And quite frankly nobody acknowledges a tank as being good because of his ability to press an invulnerable button.

So I’m still waiting for a sound reason this isn’t better than current living dead.

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Because there is no failure. You can't mess up the timing and accidentally die.

Which every other tank can. You just set it at the start of a fight and never have to think about it.


Having to push a button after means nothing, unless it's "within half a second" which is undo able with the games ping, because otherwise, there is no drawback. Long CD doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because there is no failure. You can't mess up the timing and accidentally die.

Which every other tank can. You just set it at the start of a fight and never have to think about it.


Having to push a button after means nothing, unless it's "within half a second" which is undo able with the games ping, because otherwise, there is no drawback. Long CD doesn't matter.

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There is a lot of thinking and complexities involved in this approach. A healer could waste damage and GCDs healing up the DRK when they dont need to because they don't know how the job works. A newbie DRK may just heal back immediately and waste the optimization power of waiting to the last minute and negate 2 or 3 autos and an overly greedy one may die waiting to the last microsecond so you can mess up the timing and accidentally die. The healers failing to keep the DRK from triggering their invuln will also introduce complications in hard fights because they are usually preplanned, and losing it will cause the party to adjust to it on the fly, something that already happens when tanks make a call they needed that invuln sooner than intended.

So there is a lot of nuance, way more than PLD having a "Press this button to become immortal with no consequence for 10 seconds"

So even with these changes the PLD inlvun leaves less room for error than the DRK would have. So I don't see it as overpowered personally.

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Originally Posted by Nekokaori

Now warriors needs a touch up and completely changed tbh you can easily forget warriors even have one lol

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Holmgang is the strongest by far as it's on a 4min CD allowing you to negate a lot of tank swaps e.g in P4s with Elegant Evisceration with you being about to invul through both the 1st and 3rd one and your OT invuling through the 2nd.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

There is a lot of thinking and complexities involved in this approach. A healer could waste damage and GCDs healing up the DRK when they dont need to because they don't know how the job works. A newbie DRK may just heal back immediately and waste the optimization power of waiting to the last minute and negate 2 or 3 autos and an overly greedy one may die waiting to the last microsecond so you can mess up the timing and accidentally die. The healers failing to keep the DRK from triggering their invuln will also introduce complications in hard fights because they are usually preplanned, and losing it will cause the party to adjust to it on the fly, something that already happens when tanks make a call they needed that invuln sooner than intended.

So there is a lot of nuance, way more than PLD having a "Press this button to become immortal with no consequence for 10 seconds"

So even with these changes the PLD inlvun leaves less room for error than the DRK would have. So I don't see it as overpowered personally.

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These nuances are more on the lower end of content where people don't know what they're doing and the punishment for failure is less. but in the higher end of content, It removes any margin of failure. for a Practical example doing Elmo in P3s I would turn it on like 30secs before I needed it so it removes the risk of being popped early and I could just press the button to cleanse myself at 1sec left on the buff. Currently, I have to faff with the teather drag it to 3 hope I pushed holmgang in time then heal myself so I don't die to autos when holmgang wears off. is the same process for a current living but without the self-healing.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

These nuances are more on the lower end of content where people don't know what they're doing and the punishment for failure is less. but in the higher end of content, It removes any margin of failure. for a Practical example doing Elmo in P3s I would turn it on like 30secs before I needed it so it removes the risk of being popped early and I could just press the button to cleanse myself at 1sec left on the buff. Currently, I have to faff with the teather drag it to 3 hope I pushed holmgang in time then heal myself so I don't die to autos when holmgang wears off. is the same process for a current living but without the self-healing.

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Yeah exactly, and holmgang is on a 4 minute cooldown on a tank that can top itself back up. Certainly seems like a fair trade off. Explain to me why DRK shouldn’t have a good and unique invuln. Your ability to hit an invulnerability button is not a high end tank skill. It is a minimum requirement for savage content that is not hard to pull off.

If the problem is such that the ability to have this on until it procs is that big of a deal it could simply be scaled down to having to hit it before just like all the other tanks but have a self benediction afterward, which would differentiate it somewhat from the other tank invulns and putting the DRKs salvation in his own hands. I don’t know that the auto healing they are adding on hit is really a better choice to manual control over it, specially because if it’s not enough you may as well bene him to be on the safe side or if it’s too much then it may wipe the invuln effect too early in cases of multiple tank busters during a burst phase.

But alas, if the player base is content with DRK consistently having an underperforming invuln I guess I’m an outlier.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Your ability to hit an invulnerability button is not a high-end tank skill. It is a minimum requirement for savage content that is not hard to pull off.

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But by your suggestion, you want to make it foolproof. even during prog it removes the player having to work out all the timings etc.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

all other tanks but have a self benediction afterward,

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Where can any tank self bene during a savage fight? outside of lots of adds or really nonoptimal WAR shenanigans or PLD spamming clem.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

But alas, if the player base is content with DRK consistently having an underperforming invuln I guess I’m an outlier.

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Its not that the playbase is fine with it, but at the moment it looks they don't like your suggestion either.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

outside of lots of adds or really nonoptimal WAR shenanigans or PLD spamming clem.

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Not really good to undermine your own argument, lol. That said I'll wait to see how much healing the new TBN does before I give up on drk even more than I already have. I read the writings on the wall and leveled a war and pld to 90 already. StB did drk dirty and I doubt they will be able to fix drk/tbnbot in such a way it makes playing the class feel rewarding or at the very least fun.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Not really good to undermine your own argument, lol. That said I'll wait to see how much healing the new TBN does before I give up on drk even more than I already have. I read the writings on the wall and leveled a war and pld to 90 already. StB did drk dirty and I doubt they will be able to fix drk/tbnbot in such a way it makes playing the class feel rewarding or at the very least fun.

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Doesn't undermine it. if you doing stuff like holding IR and IC and using them to play around BW your playing really badly. e.g no one does this.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Doesn't undermine it. if you doing stuff like holding IR and IC and using them to play around BW your playing really badly. e.g no one does this.

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Just because it's not optimized doesn't mean it also not possible. We all know about the 8 war meme but let's see 8 drks clear some current tier savage content!

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Just because it's not optimized doesn't mean it also not possible. We all know about the 8 war meme but let's see 8 drks clear some current tier savage content!

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you won't but that isn't because of LD. It was 8 tanks and not 8 WAR's if I recall.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

you won't

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Fix'd.

That said, when one class can beat your current tier content then perhaps you should take a second look at either the class in question or the content. I would rather the devs not touch war though since they are almost as fun to play as HW era drk.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

Fix'd.

That said, when one class can beat your current tier content then perhaps you should take a second look at either the class in question or the content. I would rather the devs not touch war though since they are almost as fun to play as HW era drk.

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it's because Eric is more of an outlier due to being the first savage and his mechanic set, P2S will be doable later in the expansion but they're going to hit a hard wall at P3S and P4S. All they need to do for DRK is make LD less wonky. I don't believe all tanks need super amounts of self-sustain and tbf DRKs are nice OTs with their TBN.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

I don't believe all tanks need super amounts of self sustain and tbf DRKs are nice OTs with their TBN.

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Yet half of the tanks in the game has some crazy self sustain and gnb can be debatable. So its very confusing that the class that was known for hp drain has the least amount of self sustain between all the tank classes. TBN is a neat trick but there are a few underlying issues with the class that TBN can't address. Besides, can't warriors and paladins create shields for themselves and their pt?

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Originally Posted by Mosha

you want to make it foolproof. even during prog it removes the player having to work out all the timings etc.

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Theres no etc. its just that lol, at worst determine the visual queue you'll use to press it. And I don't think it's as fool proof as you think. I can think of very few scenarios where the party doesn't have to adjust if it doesn't go off right when its meant to. If it procs at the wrong time and the party can't adjust the DRK will die anyways later when it was actually needed. No different than the tank dying and the OT having to take over.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Where can any tank self bene during a savage fight? outside of lots of adds or really nonoptimal WAR shenanigans or PLD spamming clem.

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PLD can spam clem but that is a dps loss. War can do the following to self bene all on OGCD by popping thrill, equilibrium, blood whetting and shake it off.

So Thrill is a 20% Total HP heal(HP expansion if you want to look at it that way) plus enhances other healing, Equil is just a big heal enhanced by thrill, Bloodwhetting restores HP on each GCD and Shake it off is a heal and shield that also benefits from the other abilities being active. By the end of this sequence you have self bene'd and also still have rampart/vengeance/reprisal to offset incoming damage if needed.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

Its not that the playbase is fine with it, but at the moment it looks they don't like your suggestion either.

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Fair, and they don't have to. At least I got the reason why, which seems to mainly stem from people liking having to time it manually instead of auto like all the other invulns. Just trying to get away from all the homogenization thats been occuring and quite frankly there are only so many ways to make an invuln different and also viable.

A change that would keep it's functionality would be to make it so that the DRK received more healing if LD triggered.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

A change that would keep it's functionality would be to make it so that the DRK received more healing if LD triggered.

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Aren't they changing it in 6.1 to give other DRK abilities life steal?

There are times where you can hold on for ages by spamming TBN and mitigation but on some enemies you eventually get low. If we can entirely heal ourselves in 6.1, it will make living dead a game changer for soloing things on DRK.

I just want the invuln to not go away before the 10s is up. I've popped it, then trigger it, then the healer heals it off, and I die to a double tankbuster.

It would need to be finetuned but I'd be down for DRK being able to pop their immunity and just leave it up permanently until they take lethal damage. Not my fault this would still be balanced when given to DRK specifically.
And if SE wants to lean into easy mode and homogenization we might as well get something good out of it.

All I can hear now is "Living Dead Girl" by Rob Zombie. kupo <3 :cool: