Change the name to RangeLines already.

The amount of disadvantages melee DPS jobs have in PVP its ridiculous,stupid, non-sense most of the time melee jobs have to spam range attacks and engage every 60 seconds when fetter ward its up.

Then you as SE for some reason decided to give Warriors(they are immune to everything in PVP with their buff) Holmgang an skill that PULLS YOU IN from 20 km away, leave you stuck unable to move and is basically death sentence to every melee job that tries to get close to do THEIR JOB except for DRGS because their elusive jump its the only way to play around it, making the frontline experience frustrating because you can't simple engage with so many WARRIORS on the opposite raids, its very normal to get Holmgang even 3 times in a row because it doesn't leave a "buff" in your character when you get sleep/slow/bind/stun etc.

Of course if getting Holmgang every time I decide to engage you give to every single RANGE JOB a silence,bind,slow,AOE stun/Sleep/push/drag in skill meanwhile only NIN can silence for 1 second but at melee range, tell me how its this fair? you are telling us that playing melee dps in frontline its throwing unless you come with a premade and 2-3 pocket healers baby sitting you all the way.

Melee DPS jobs can't stun/silence(only Nin)/slow/interrupt but all the range/tanks jobs can.
Melee DPS jobs can't engage properly but its ok that a Black mage can burst for 7k tapping 2 keys in 2 seconds window.
Melee DPS have the same the same amount of HP than TANK jobs but without any defensive skill unless you play MNK/Reaper but then again 6 seconds its miserable, you can't get it without fetter ward which already have 60 seconds CD.

Also why in the world Healers jobs can use POTIONS? it takes 2-3-4 people to take down a single WHM because they have so many tools to remove status, remove bind/slow,silence, burst heal,damage reduction, use LB and of course use 3 potions, I saw so many many times a WHM running from our respawn in seal of rock to His/her respawn while getting hunt by 3 people and yet he/she could survive, this its just ridiculous.

I truly hope the next PVP version FFXIV fix all the issues because right now its nothing but a clown fest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

The amount of disadvantages melee DPS jobs have in PVP its ridiculous,stupid, non-sense most of the time melee jobs have to spam range attacks and engage every 60 seconds when fetter ward its up.

Then you as SE for some reason decided to give Warriors(they are immune to everything in PVP with their buff) Holmgang an skill that PULLS YOU IN from 20 km away, leave you stuck unable to move and is basically death sentence to every melee job that tries to get close to do THEIR JOB except for DRGS because their elusive jump its the only way to play around it, making the frontline experience frustrating because you can't simple engage with so many WARRIORS on the opposite raids, its very normal to get Holmgang even 3 times in a row because it doesn't leave a "buff" in your character when you get sleep/slow/bind/stun etc.

Of course if getting Holmgang every time I decide to engage you give to every single RANGE JOB a silence,bind,slow,AOE stun/Sleep/push/drag in skill meanwhile only NIN can silence for 1 second but at melee range, tell me how its this fair? you are telling us that playing melee dps in frontline its throwing unless you come with a premade and 2-3 pocket healers baby sitting you all the way.

Melee DPS jobs can't stun/silence(only Nin)/slow/interrupt but all the range/tanks jobs can.
Melee DPS jobs can't engage properly but its ok that a Black mage can burst for 7k tapping 2 keys in 2 seconds window.
Melee DPS have the same the same amount of HP than TANK jobs but without any defensive skill unless you play MNK/Reaper but then again 6 seconds its miserable, you can't get it without fetter ward which already have 60 seconds CD.

Also why in the world Healers jobs can use POTIONS? it takes 2-3-4 people to take down a single WHM because they have so many tools to remove status, remove bind/slow,silence, burst heal,damage reduction, use LB and of course use 3 potions, I saw so many many times a WHM running from our respawn in seal of rock to His/her respawn while getting hunt by 3 people and yet he/she could survive, this its just ridiculous.

I truly hope the next PVP version FFXIV fix all the issues because right now its nothing but a clown fest.

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In 5.3 the final adjustments to frontline PVP were made, in it:
- The bonus to damage dealt for tank and melee DPS roles has been reduced from 15% to 10%.
- Bonus to damage reduction for dragoon and ninja has been reduced from 30% to 25%.
- Bonus to damage reduction for red mage has been increased from 0% to 20%.

The damage reduction was due to melee being too STRONG at the time, while adding less defensives for melee jobs with more range abilities(DRG and NIN). In all, melee's and tanks have passive damage and mitigation due to their disadvantages in Frontlines and Rival Wings. In the end it comes down to player skill, and your ability to play as a team. Not to mention all the melees have an escape ability(Shukuchi, Elusive Jump, Hissatsu: Soten, and Hell's Ingres/Egress) with the exception of MNK, who still retains it's 3 Shoulder Tackles that will most likely change to their new movement ability.

Ranged get CC due to their lower damage, and the fact that they lack the HP or defensives that melee have. It's all in the balance of the game. Tanks soak as much damage and CC's as they can, while also providing useful stuns or draw-ins as well as party defensive buffs. Healers heal and shield and Esuna and Rescue. Range do poke damage from afar with some CC, and Melee do the most damage with many moves that execute. Potions were given to every job when they severely nerfed the amount of outgoing healing healers can do, in order to 1.Nerf how strong the role was and 2.Help address the lack of healers on Frontline queues. Yes, healers are hard to kill, but they hardly do any damage, don't really have any CC, and are usually the number 1 target in Frontlines, making their survivability a necessity.

Lastly, if you as a melee are diving head first into a group of 24 enemies with no tank to peel and no healer to keep you alive, that's on you. Whilst it's arguably easier to get Battle High on DRG and NIN with their AoE cleave abilities, achieving it on the other melee jobs isn't that hard of a feat, and is a lot easier if you pre-make a four man to include a tank and healer to work with you. You're not supposed to be able to dive into an enemy team and do whatever you want and stay alive, that would be broken. Even as a tank I can only stay in the middle of an enemy team for as long as I have cooldowns for it until I reach Battle High. Play around your abilities, play WITH your team, don't be the center of attention to an enemy, and focus on survival first and foremost until you get Battle High, then you can go off. If Holmgang annoys you that much, just go DRG who has a built in anti-Holmgang ability with Elusive Jump.

Frontlines is the same reason I hate open world pvp. Its just a zerg fest and not fun as melee.

I wish wolves den was more popular because I can't stand large scale zerg "pvp"

Welcome to ff14 pvp. be ready to get attacked from every angle of this forum. nice to have met you..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ixon

If Holmgang annoys you that much, just go DRG who has a built in anti-Holmgang ability with Elusive Jump.

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The fact that you had to add this is proof that something is wrong.. it is just stupid that fetter ward does not suffice..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Garten

The fact that you had to add this is proof that something is wrong.. it is just stupid that fetter ward does not suffice..

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You ever play that game at the beach, where you chase the water on the shoreline then run away when it gets close, just to chase it again as it recedes? That's Frontlines in a nutshell. You move and play with the flow of your team and the enemy teams. When the enemy falls back, you can push up, when the enemy pushes up, you move back. Most of the people I see die are very, VERY, often out of position with no defensives or pots to save them. Holmgang isn't some super duper magical ability, it's 3s bind with a slight draw-in. It's not blocked by Fetter Ward or resistances because it also acts as WAR's invuln, and that would ruin that part of it if it could be blocked so easily. The game is full of CC that can destroy you if caught out of position. Painflare is a Ranged AoE stun, Nightwing is a Ranged AoE sleep, Every Phys range can take the same 3s Bind Holmgang has on a 30sec cool down and from a much longer range, every tank has a gap closer and a stun with the option to take Weapon throw as a pull in.

On the other side, every job has Medical Kits(Pots), that when used at LOW health can cure up to 6,000 HP. So when Johnny-to-close gets Holmgang'd and I see them pop every pot at once, yeah, they are going to die. Every ranged job has the ability to play, at ranged, which in itself is a defensive. This works the same with DRG and NIN, who have strong ranged abilities, on top of DRG having the ability to leap out of bind, and NIN's getting a shield on their Shukuchi, and the ability to AoE silence people around them which can be used defensively as well. The other melees have built in defensive abilities, MNK's Riddle of Earth, SAM's Hissatsu: Chiten, and RPR's Arcane Crest. On top of this, every Melee can take Bloodbath or Arm's Length or Fetter Ward or to aid in their survival, hell, you could even take Backstep if it helps.

All you have to do with all these defensives and cooldowns and pots is play around them, which isn't that hard to do. Do you have all your defensive stuff? Pop a few, jump on in, spin to win, jump out when they are done, wait till they come off cooldown, rinse and repeat. If you don't have any, hang back a bit, maybe wait till YOUR tank Holmgangs someone out of position and wail on them for free points, then jump back in when you are good to go. Melee in Frontlines is the definition of high risk, high reward. It's easy to get caught out in the open, but if you can stay alive till you hit Battle High, you can just start solo cleaving teams. Hence why the damage and defensive bonuses for melee are so much higher than ranged in the first place. Not to mention you can party up, find others that want to play, have someone go tank to soak CC and damage, have someone go healer with rescue, profit.

You dont have to explain frontlines to me, i have thousands of matches under the belt with a win rate over the minimum, playing solo. I am recently getting the unwanted attention of a guild of gankers, and trust me, It Is not fun getting targeted all over the map by 2-3 wars with the only foolproof defensive option of staying the hell FAR from them.. but i know.. the real problem are more often my allies than my enemies.. people that do not Watch enemies buffs, or if they have a pocket healer, and keep getting taunted by Tanks decois..

Too bad my friends hate pvp.. well wathever

Melee are only weak if A healers are garbage (lots of them) or full 72 players fighting and actually focusing in one area. They do seem to work better in battles where it is less then 16 people fighting. But SE increased mount speed so all 72 can get to any spot in less then 1 minute.



The most battle high 5s and almost always top kills are melee. MNK,NIN,and DRG always have double digit kills. It is pretty rare for any of the range jobs to top those three.

I mean it's FF14 pvp. Get used to mediocre, half baked, boring ass content. Hell we couldn't even get a second set of armor or even a weapon glam last expansion (unless you count wolf collars). Pretty sure Yoshi has forgotten about pvp or is hoping we'll forget about it....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

Pretty sure Yoshi has forgotten about pvp or is hoping we'll forget about it....

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Well, Crystaline Conflict being bad would pretty much prove this theory... And also the Battle Pass thingie, right?

Far be it from me to defend Yoshi, I still hate the fact that he thinks the Netcode is "Perfectly Fine" when I'm getting snapped 3 years after I left a hitbox. But there is plenty to show attention to PvP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

I mean it's FF14 pvp. Get used to mediocre, half baked, boring ass content. Hell we couldn't even get a second set of armor or even a weapon glam last expansion (unless you count wolf collars). Pretty sure Yoshi has forgotten about pvp or is hoping we'll forget about it....

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They didn't forget about PvP and there is a reason why feedback from this forum usually will not have any meaningful and progressive ideas for development team to use.
Most of post from this forum basically is either ranting or feedback that is very generic (close to nothing that is useful)

Below is the typical feedback from Japanese PvP forum, and it is about Reaper enhancement
It is in a format like a real project proposal, an intro, an explanation on the issue, and propose solution.
In rare case, there are few players able to provide same feedback from this forum, but those usually got bury by others (PvE farmers) pointless ranting
Even this thread, it is totally useless because nothing OP said is authentic.
At every datacenter it is always Melee triumph in the performance and not every one of them has a pocket healer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by international

【調整案】

■「ヘルズイングレス」（移動技）
・距離を15m→20mに
・グラウンドターゲット化
・2スタック化
・リターン実行可能時間を10秒→15秒に

■「ハルパー」（遠距離単体攻撃）
・無詠唱化
・距離を25m→15m
・ソウルゲージ（通常時）、シュラウドゲージ（妖異の鎌時）20上昇の追加効果

■「グラトニー」、「コムニオ」（遠距離範囲攻撃）
・コムニオは無詠唱化
・距離を25m→20mに

■「妖異の鎌」の効果時間
・10秒→15秒に


【理由】
前提としてフロントライン（以下、FLと呼称）でのプレイをもとにしての提案です。
今のリーパーを使用していて、プレイフィールがあまりよくないように感じたので、調整案を作成いたしました。

■距離の問題
まず、「距離」の問題です。
他のメレー、竜騎士、侍、忍者の移動技が20mあるのに対し、リーパーは15mしかありません。
この5mの差は現環境では大きいです。

FLの中で移動技の主な使用シーンには以下のようなものがあります。
・一斉攻撃の不意打ち、俗に言う「バースト」時の進入
・敵軍との会戦のタイミングで放つ「初動」の一歩としての突撃
・自軍が敵軍を攻めており優勢なシーンで、敵群最後尾を走るプレイヤーへの「追撃」のための接近
・自軍が劣勢なシーンで、敵からのターゲットを逃れる「回避」のための疾走

どのシーンを想像してもらっても分かると思うのですが5mの不足はかなり大きく、他のメレーを使った後だと「薄ら自分にヘビィがかかっている」かのような錯覚を覚えるほど、プレイフィールが悪くなっています。

またこの距離問題は、リーパーが”魔法メレー”であることにも悪影響を与えています。
魔法の射程距離が25mもあるので、25m先へ魔法攻撃した際、15mの移動では近接で追撃することができません。

特に、グラトニーはアクション時の追加効果で「妖異の鎌」を2つストックできますが、付与された「妖異の鎌」は10秒以内に特定の近接技を敵に当てないとシュラウドゲージに変換することができません。

つまり、グラトニーは接近を見越して最大でも15mくらいの距離で放たないと攻撃リソースの損失となってしまうのです。

こうして見るとなんとなく魔法と近接攻撃がバラバラになってしまってる印象です。
狭いフィールドのPvEでは発生しない、広いフィールドでのPvPならではの問題かもしれません。

以上より、移動技には、他メレーとの足並みを揃え、且つ魔法と近接攻撃の架け橋となれるような調整が必要だと考えます。

具体的には移動技を20mにし、範囲魔法も20mに合わせてほしいと思います。

加えて、今のアンヴァン方式で20mの移動をすると方向調整の難易度が恐ろしく高くなることが予想されることから、グラウンドターゲット化してほしいと思います。

※モンクの羅刹衝も15mしかなく不便ですが、パッチ6.1の抜重歩法でPvE同様20mに伸びることを信じています。というより、移動技20mはメレーのレギュレーションとしてほしいです。

■ゲージ問題
もう一つの問題「ゲージの貯めにくさ」も、プレイフィールを悪くしている要因だと思います。
リーパーのアクションの流れを、下記のとおり簡単にまとめてみました。

①通常モード時ソウルゲージを貯める
②ソウルゲージを消費して「妖異の鎌」を付与する
③「妖異の鎌」を消費してシュラウドゲージを貯める
④シュラウドゲージを消費してレムールモードになる
⑤レムールモード15秒の間にバースト

こうしてみると、やっぱり一番強いレムールモードに至るまでのプロセスがやや多いなと感じます。
途中で生まれる与ダメが低くはないので、段階が多いことには目を瞑ったとしても、一連の流れのほとんどにおいて近接で殴らないとゲージがたまらないというのは集団戦においては少し無理があると思います。

FLにおいて近接攻撃で殴り続けられるシーンって制圧戦以外そこまで多くないので、ゲージを溜めるのはハードルが高いなと感じます。

※同じことはモンクにも言えます。ジョブコンセプトを考えると遠隔出しにくいのかもしれませんが、相手から闘気を吸収する威力0のスキルでもいいのでモンクに1アクション遠隔技をください。

ゲージ回りは少し緩和するしかないと思いましたので、「ハルパーによるゲージ上昇」や「妖異の鎌の効果時間延長」などで、よりステップを踏みやすくしてあげるといいのではないかなと思っています。

それに伴って、魔法の距離は短く、インスタントで実行可能にしています。
（コムニオの詠唱も集団戦闘では使い勝手が悪いのでインスタントにすべきだと思います。）

上記のような調整を図れば、フロントラインでも遊べるようになるのじゃないかと考えています。
長々と失礼しました。

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

They didn't forget about PvP and there is a reason why feedback from this forum usually will not have any meaningful and progressive ideas for development team to use.
Most of post from this forum basically is either ranting or feedback that is very generic (close to nothing that is useful)

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The statement about mediocre/half baked is subjective. But the amount of content and effort put into pvp is not. 12/09/2019 was the last significant effort put into pvp. We have received one set of glamour since 2018. Also the nerfed gear to be worthless besides glamour. It has a desynth lvl of 1 and no real grand company turn in. Poetics have been kept valid since ARR and wolf marks have not.



I don't have to write a try hard report to tell them to do more. I might not like what they do (rival wings), but doing one thing in almost four years. What feedback do they need for that? Now if they want to have an open discussion about making more content and what weird back end limitations the game has to work with then fine. Otherwise just do something, anything really.

While I agree SE, the dev team, and the GM team has dropped the ball quite a bit when it comes specifically to PVP in FFXIV, I understand from Yoshi 's point of view that it's an uphill battle. PVP isn't popular amongst the players who play this game. Not because they hate THIS specific PVP, but because they do not like PVP in general. Your standard, everyday, run of the mill player who plays FFXIV isn't doing it for the PVP(minus the exp from a daily roulette), no matter how good it is. They want an easy going, slow paced game where they can do a dungeon or two, farm a fate, do a side quest, RP in a house, etc. So right off the bat you are already pushing funds and dev time into a unpopular game mode. Then there are the issues with this games backbone not made with PVP in mind, they make a large scale mode that's 1v1v1 to step away from the 1v1 but that makes it's own problems, you make a competitive mode on this busted backbone that isn't moderated well and most casuals complain about, then when you put in cool rewards for people who enjoy PVP you get 10+ threads on how people think those rewards shouldn't be locked to pvp, etc.

Then your game blows up, people singing praise left and right, but every article has the same line saying that the PVP is lackluster at best. That's honestly my tin foil hat reason why we are getting as much as mentioned come 6.1. They probably know their PVP isn't great, but with it being unpopular content, it's hard to rationalize money and dev time into it. Though they also know it's one of the bigger points preventing their game from appealing to EVERY type of player, hence why we are getting a new small scale mode and them trying their hands at a PVP season that more games have been adopting for the past few years. Despite this, I personally hold on to some faith(or copium) that Crystal Conflict might be good. You can see a trend between the maps and game modes of Feast and Frontlines of "Let's try this, or this, that didn't work, let's do this" when you compare Onsal to Secure or the Crystal Tower Training Grounds to The Feasting Grounds with usual, not always, improvements along the way. Even from what little we know, we know that they are addressing queue times and role balancing issues by making it role-less, and addressing people complaining about the rewards with a Series Pass while also retaining competitive Season rewards. We'll just have to wait to see how much they have learned from past mistakes and pray for more dev and GM interaction this time around.

For the past 7 years, SE keeps trying to re-invent the wheel when it comes to PvP instead of providing a game mode that has proven success. They also try to treat PvP as PvE MSQ/Casual content by diluting the skill level to the point it is easily accessible to anyone, instead of just simply adding a match-making rating system. Much of the FFXIV community dislikes PvP because it is simply not fun.

lol Range were OP in 3.0, trust me, Range are no where near as powerful as they were. A skilled bard would be able to take out a warrior, kite the crap out of any melee back then. A Machinist burst was enough to take out your hp pool.

PVP has definitely balanced out more.

Currently a (skilled)Melee can easily win a 2(range) vs 1(melee) match straight up.

Get to know your job better, optimize what 2 PVP OGCDs works well for your jobs playing style.

Close the distance, and stay on them like glue. Melees have gap closers, dragoons have 3!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForbiddenMonk

lol Range were OP in 3.0, trust me, Range are no where near as powerful as they were. A skilled bard would be able to take out a warrior, kite the crap out of any melee back then. A Machinist burst was enough to take out your hp pool.

PVP has definitely balanced out more.

Currently a (skilled)Melee can easily win a 2(range) vs 1(melee) match straight up.

Get to know your job better, optimize what 2 PVP OGCDs works well for your jobs playing style.

Close the distance, and stay on them like glue. Melees have gap closers, dragoons have 3!

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Dragoons in frontlines play more like a ranged dps that throws spears, occasionally jumps, and uses their aoe combo ability to activate their life of the dragon. There is very little incentive to go into actual melee unless your picking off someone who strayed too far away from their group. And the only other time your realistically using your melee combo ability is if a tank moved up close. Most dragoons I have seen never get close enough to actually fight them proper they mostly stick to their group.

Frontlines is more about staying in a deathball, and unless you can overwhelm an enemy player easily due to them either having lower battle high (or none), you don't go away from your group unless your group is getting too close to danger territory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Dragoons in frontlines play more like a ranged dps that throws spears, occasionally jumps, and uses their aoe combo ability to activate their life of the dragon. There is very little incentive to go into actual melee unless your picking off someone who strayed too far away from their group. And the only other time your realistically using your melee combo ability is if a tank moved up close. Most dragoons I have seen never get close enough to actually fight them proper they mostly stick to their group.

Frontlines is more about staying in a deathball, and unless you can overwhelm an enemy player easily due to them either having lower battle high (or none), you don't go away from your group unless your group is getting too close to danger territory.

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As a tank; Rampart + Retaliation, run in, spin to win will Rampart falls off, ez top damage while soaking most CC's from the enemy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ixon

As a tank; Rampart + Retaliation, run in, spin to win will Rampart falls off, ez top damage while soaking most CC's from the enemy.

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Exactly, tanks are an exception. They are built to withstand punishment. For melee dps its more risky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Exactly, tanks are an exception. They are built to withstand punishment. For melee dps its more risky.

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Of course it is. It's made that way. A battle high melee DPS is the strongest threat on a battlefield more than any other role. High risk, High reward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Of course it is. It's made that way. A battle high melee DPS is the strongest threat on a battlefield more than any other role. High risk, High reward.

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Ahem...

Quote:

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Dragoons in frontlines play more like a ranged dps that throws spears, occasionally jumps, and uses their aoe combo ability to activate their life of the dragon. There is very little incentive to go into actual melee unless your picking off someone who strayed too far away from their group.

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Do you disagree with this statement? As this is my talking point you are arguing against as you chattered on about tanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Do you disagree with this statement? As this is my talking point you are arguing against as you chattered on about tanks.

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DRG's and NIN's also do less damage than RPR, MNK, and SAM:

"In 5.3 the final adjustments to frontline PVP were made, in it:
- The bonus to damage dealt for tank and melee DPS roles has been reduced from 15% to 10%.
- Bonus to damage reduction for dragoon and ninja has been reduced from 30% to 25%."

And DRG's are squishy, just stun them and they fall like the rest, they go in all the time for Spineshatter and Stardiver. Even if they are playing a "ranged DPS" they are still doing far less damage single target than a MNK or SAM that is in your face. So sure, a DRG can play that way, but it's not guaranteed success. The fact that they have a lot of "ranged" abilities isn't even the biggest thing, it's their AoE. Every Roles best jobs for Frontlines can be boiled down to how much AoE they have. That's why you see the most common jobs at the top are the ones that have the most consistant AoE options. Blind AoE spam leads to more assists, which leads to Battle High faster, which leads to more AoE damage, which assists in more kills. When you look at the top of a FL board post match, the top damage is usually from those jobs that AoE spam. Besides, this is only really prevalent in Onsal, where people group up at the top of the ramp making it easier for AoE to be affective. Even DRG's aren't usually as effective on other maps because there aren't as big of chokes like the ramp in Onsal.

If you are really tired of seeing the top jobs at the top, SE would need to remove a lot of the AoE from those jobs to make assits harder and adjust maps like the mid point in Onsal to prevent the worst of choke points. Though who knows how the jobs will be in a week.

From my own experience of frontlines, in its current balance state of 6.0:

I honestly never seen a SAM with a battle high of 5, more like a 3 most of the time.
MNK I have see a handful of times reach battle high 5, usually 4.
RPR I seen get a battle high 5, but most of the time they are in the 1-3 range.

NIN and DRG? I routinely see at least, at minimum, one of each per game get battle high 5.

SMN? Battle highs 4 or 5.
RDM? 3 or 4.
BLM? 5.

Bards and Machinists? 3 to 5.
Dancer? 0 to 5.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

From my own experience of frontlines, in its current balance state of 6.0:

I honestly never seen a SAM with a battle high of 5, more like a 3 most of the time.
MNK I have see a handful of times reach battle high 5, usually 4.
RPR I seen get a battle high 5, but most of the time they are in the 1-3 range.

NIN and DRG? I routinely see at least, at minimum, one of each per game get battle high 5.

SMN? Battle highs 4 or 5.
RDM? 3 or 4.
BLM? 5.

Bards and Machinists? 3 to 5.
Dancer? 0 to 5.

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You say this as this weekend there was a 25kill, 200mil damage DNC. Plus I can personally get top damage on any tank easily. Battle High is more about who can pad the best, which again goes back to who can do the most AoEs. If anything I would reduce how much you get from an assist due to how easy it is, and make it easier for healers to get assists as it can be difficult for non-WHM healers.

I am a touch interested in seeing the new LBs change things up because some of them already seem a bit...strong compared to the current options, like WHM's Afflatus Purgation effectively being a ranged LB on steroids with how wide its radius is.

I *thought* I remember hearing during Live Letter 67 something along the lines of how the jobs are going to be in Crystal Conflict weren't going to be exactly how they are in Frontlines and Rival Wings, but I can't find anything that supports that yet. Like the LB's themselves as you mention would be a madhouse. RDM LB is an AoE Bind plus damage, PLD LB is Hallowed plus Confeiteor Combo that applies a debuff, SAM is a one person nuke that unless you blue shield it looks like it'll pretty much insta kill anyone, DRK's is some weird version of Living Dead that also does a massive front back cleave, I think RPR's does the AoE Terror, and DNC does an AoE charm, and WHM like you mention does a line AoE bind into damage and applies a Temperance buff to everyone. All those AoE's and binds would be ridiculous in Frontlines given how fast they charge, even with self healing and self purify.

They haven't really discusses PVP outside of the new mode, so I don't think we will know exactly till 6.1 drops. If all the jobs are the same across all PVP modes, it's going to be insane.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I *thought* I remember hearing during Live Letter 67 something along the lines of how the jobs are going to be in Crystal Conflict weren't going to be exactly how they are in Frontlines and Rival Wings, but I can't find anything that supports that yet. Like the LB's themselves as you mention would be a madhouse. RDM LB is an AoE Bind plus damage, PLD LB is Hallowed plus Confeiteor Combo that applies a debuff, SAM is a one person nuke that unless you blue shield it looks like it'll pretty much insta kill anyone, DRK's is some weird version of Living Dead that also does a massive front back cleave, I think RPR's does the AoE Terror, and DNC does an AoE charm, and WHM like you mention does a line AoE bind into damage and applies a Temperance buff to everyone. All those AoE's and binds would be ridiculous in Frontlines given how fast they charge, even with self healing and self purify.

They haven't really discusses PVP outside of the new mode, so I don't think we will know exactly till 6.1 drops. If all the jobs are the same across all PVP modes, it's going to be insane.

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I always thought having multiple limit breaks would make the jobs way more interesting. We have so few buttons and having 2 or 3 unique limit breaks would really spice stuff up. Also it is a shame they could release the info for all the changes for PvP ahead of time. It isn't going to break the game or anything.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

I always thought having multiple limit breaks would make the jobs way more interesting. We have so few buttons and having 2 or 3 unique limit breaks would really spice stuff up. Also it is a shame they could release the info for all the changes for PvP ahead of time. It isn't going to break the game or anything.

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The limits breaks, even for the 10 jobs we saw, seem crazy. Especially if the rate at which you charge a limit break is based off the strength of it akin to Ultimates in Overwatch. From discussions with others just combing over the gameplay we have, we can assume it's most likely around 8-10 job exclusive buttons on top of the Big Heal, Small Heal, Purify, Blue Shield, Toggle Sprint, and LB. Which isn't too far off from what we have now. I also assume the optional additionals are gone, but that's to be seen. I assume the lack of FL and RW information is just to maintain focus on the new mode, though if this mode takes off on it's own and is a success, I assume they will circle back around to Rival Wings and the next item to tackle.

Personally I would call it Stunlines, as the metagame is entirely about spamming so many different stuns and different forms of cc that it would make Overwatch blush.

The issue I see is more of the fact that ranged classes, for whatever reason,gets access to the best stuns while melee tend to get shafted in that department. Melee classes get to do more damage but that doesn't matter at all because thats not part of the meta game, the metagame is spamming stuns and then everyone attacking the stunned target. So having Ranged have a damage penalty isn't a balancing factor as thats not how you win or even play frontline.

You run around as a blob, throw out every single stun and cc move under the planet, and then all rush whoever gets stunned. Doesn't matter if Ranged is kinda weak in terms of damage output. they're all attacking the same stunned target who will get insta-deleted anyway.

From glossing over all of the new LBs, some of them potentially sound a bit...overbearing unless they have an ungodly long charge time to compensate.

WHM's in particular has such an obscenely huge radius (40 yards long/wide) that sufficiently stacked WHMs could potentially wipe out an entire alliance in Frontlines and it also stuns on top of that.

Except Guard prevents CC, and Purify removes CC, while also making you CC invuln for a while afterwards. I think they wanted jobs to feel strong in one way or another, and I think they accomplished it.

Stuns don't matter if you're getting erased from existence by stacked AoE LBs before you can even hit Guard.

The old ranged/caster LBs were made manageable by the fact that their range/radius was small enough that weren't likely to be hitting multiple people unless they were crowding around/into a capture/choke point or some such. They also had a cast time so you could reasonably move out of them before they go off. The new instant cast LBs turn a lot of jobs into a walking death radius, though it seems the design intent was to avoid games of chicken and/or attrition where nobody is dying for prolonged periods of time which speeds games up overall.

I'm just assuming the WHM LB charges really slowly so it's not going to be oppressive as it sounds on paper.

The more I look at it, the more every job seems oppressive in one way or another lol, and looking at the Melees, they have a lot in their it to either reduce damage, or negate damage, or escape damage. Is the mid of Onsal going to be more of a chaotic show than before? Probably, but I hate mid of Onsal and think the platform should be removed to avoid such terrible grouping.