NIN poison attacks in the future?

I don't get why ninja doesn't have any poison attacks like a poison mist or spray. It would be nice to have some sort of attacks like that

We used to have poison as a damage buff on weapons in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

We used to have poison as a damage buff on weapons in ARR.

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Was there in HW too, but the system was always underwhelming. It wasn't even poison so much as a simple damage stance you always kept on.

Rogues used to have a stance called Kiss of the Wasp.

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Apply wasp venom to your weapon, increasing physical damage dealt by 5%. Shares a recast timer with Kiss of the Viper and cannot be used simultaneously with any other weapon poisons. Effect ends upon reuse.

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Enhanced Wasp Venom increases the damage from 5% to 20%, as well as causing Jugulate to Stun for 2 seconds instead of the 1 second silence.

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Rogues used to have another stance called Kiss of the Viper.

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Apply snake venom to your weapon, increasing physical damage dealt by 10%. Shares a recast timer with Kiss of the Wasp, and cannot be used simultaneously with any other weapon poisons. Effect ends upon reuse.

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Enhanced Viper Venom increases the damage from 10% to 20%, as well as causing Mug to steal 50% of damage as health instead of the increased item rewards.

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Kiss of the Viper is obviously better, so all it was doing was allowing new players to do it wrong or worse, not use a stance at all. It was just a chore to turn on the stance every time you switch to Ninja or sync into roulettes, so it was eventually removed.

The effects on stuns and silences did not remain important because they quickly stopped letting stuns and silences affect bosses and removed most trash from raids except for transition phases and all tanks can interrupt these.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Was there in HW too, but the system was always underwhelming. It wasn't even poison so much as a simple damage stance you always kept on.

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Yeah NIN at this point are a bit more like '' battle mages '' moreso than sneaky Assassins.
I do like Ninjutsus but I kinda wish they incorporated stealth a bit more.

I rly loved Subtlety and Assassination Rogues in WoW.
I especially liked the poison theme of Assassination Rogues.
Crafting poison was fun too imo.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Was there in HW too, but the system was always underwhelming. It wasn't even poison so much as a simple damage stance you always kept on.

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There were two stances you'd change depending on uh... nin stuff. I won't pretend to know much about the old rotations back then.
But it sounded more interesting than no stances at all.

Because NIN is basically just Naruto.

True. I wish we had a real rogue JOB, and not only a class.

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Originally Posted by cynical_baby

True. I wish we had a real rogue JOB, and not only a class.

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I like the Rogue animations too, I mean I don't have a problem with the NIN animations I don't '' cringe '' from the Naruto run or whatever people complain about it.
But I really like them.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Because NIN is basically just Naruto.

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Not having watched Naruto, but having played FF4 (DS remake at least), FFXIV ninja seems in line with Edge's ninjutsu in that game: a few evasive abilities but mostly elemental magic.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

There were two stances you'd change depending on uh... nin stuff. I won't pretend to know much about the old rotations back then.
But it sounded more interesting than no stances at all.

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Nah, you just stayed permanently in Viper, because you didn't want the boss to become stun immune when that was still a thing for some interrupts. The damage between the two poisons was identical. Maybe you'd use Wasp sometime solo, but that's about it.

XIV hates DoTs so it will not happen. You're lucky we still have the few DoTs left.

It used to have poison attacks but like every other job in the game the Devs have been slowly removing/reducing the amount of DoT's available.

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Originally Posted by seraf

It used to have poison attacks but like every other job in the game the Devs have been slowly removing/reducing the amount of DoT's available.

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Not sure what you mean, are you talking about Mutilate and Shadow Fang?
Those weren't really dot poison attacks.

The only 'poison' effects for Ninja back in the day was a buff to damage. Two buttons that did nothing but that. They removed them and buffed up the actual damage, so these two were no longer necessary.

The only poison DoTs I remember are from Bards and the Arcanist Twins.

The Ninja's poisons of old were more there decide whether you wanted to have a stun or an interrupt.

The closest we currently get to anything poison is Scholar's DoT.

I think it was a stun or heal.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I think it was a stun or heal.

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50% of a 140 Potency attack's damage is not much of a heal...
The main one really was Jugulate, which was a 1 second silence (such effects got turned into interrupts). Which with Enhanced Wasp Venom turned into a 2 second stun.

This was before Role Actions, so Ninja didn't have access to Leg Sweep so it was the only stun they could get access to.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

I don't get why ninja doesn't have any poison attacks like a poison mist or spray. It would be nice to have some sort of attacks like that

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I'd prefer to keep the focus on weaponskills and ninjutsu; I don't know that I see the value in diluting those core gish themes with poison just because.

so NINs don't have a DoT based poison attack?
I mean it's basically just flavor text at that point.
SE be sleeping

I love DoTs, although I can understand that situations where you can make full use of them are limited, and they compete for space in an ever-growing kit of skills that bloats with each new expansion. I agree that it feels bad not to have any poisons on a rogue/ninja character, because I'm so used to that in other MMOs or fantasy games. Doton would have made more sense as an AoE poison cloud, rather than some vague "I made the ground angry" magic. Trick Attack is also a rather generic-sounding move that could have easily been themed as injecting a wound-festering toxin that causes the target to take more damage from incoming attacks. Heck, make it a blow dart or something while we're at it, that'd be cool.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Doton would have made more sense as an AoE poison cloud, rather than some vague "I made the ground angry" magic.

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Earth—the "vague" magic is earth element ninjutsu. NIN also have wind, fire, lightning, and water ninjutsu.

Wind, fire, lightning, water, earth, poison—one of these is not like the others.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Earth—the "vague" magic is earth element ninjutsu. NIN also have wind, fire, lightning, and water ninjutsu.

Wind, fire, lightning, water, earth, poison—one of these is not like the others.

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Don't forget Ice, one Ninjutsu for every elemental affinity.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Rogues used to have a stance called Kiss of the Wasp.





Rogues used to have another stance called Kiss of the Viper.





Kiss of the Viper is obviously better, so all it was doing was allowing new players to do it wrong or worse, not use a stance at all. It was just a chore to turn on the stance every time you switch to Ninja or sync into roulettes, so it was eventually removed.

The effects on stuns and silences did not remain important because they quickly stopped letting stuns and silences affect bosses and removed most trash from raids except for transition phases and all tanks can interrupt these.

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I don't mind that they remove stances, but it does make me sad that jobs have lost so much flavor and identity. Off the top of my head, we've lost:

* AST: Nocturnal/Diurnal Sect.
* SCH: Eos/Selene.
* MCH: Bishop/Rook Turret.

I just wish more jobs at least attempted stuff like PLD where they reappropriated Sword Oath and Shield Oath for other mechs.

As it stands, NIN really should have more assassin flavor. Without it the mudra system makes it feel too much like a mage, which I think really does not play into a NIN job fantasy very well.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Don't forget Ice

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We don't talk about Hyoton.

I loved the animations for applying the poisons. I miss them.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

We don't talk about Hyoton.

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Kassatsu it for Hyosho Ranryu, better ice.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Because NIN is basically just Naruto.

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And now with a dash of Sasuke/Kakashi.

Can't wait to get our Nine Tailed Fox and giant Tengu thingy summons next expansion! :D

Given that they seem to keep overcompensating for Trick Attack in NIN's balance tuning, I think would be nice if we got some supportive ninjutsu that offers additional party benefits like in-combat movement speed buffs, regens, and other such things to make it like the red mage/dancer of melee jobs in terms of how much utility it offers.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

We don't talk about Hyoton.

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I've used Hyoton before to save the day in dungeons or simply stay alive after everyone else has died until they get there but yeah it's obviously not part of your rotation.
I'd actually like to see an ice themed Ninjutsu as part of our rotation tho.

Poison would be cool too but I do like the elements focus a lot more personally.
Actually I'd like to see a combo of the elements be part of our rotation, like water/ ice ( ice = water anyways lol ) + lightning = big combo damage.
Hyosho Ranyu could also be turned into an element skill instead of uh, whatever it is.

Ice + fire could work too, quick and extreme temperature changes.
So basically water + lightning and ice + fire.

Suiton = lightning debuff, Raiton and Raiju = ice debuff, Hyosho Ranyu ( ice element ) = fire debuff.
And fire could be the big ender of the cycle.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Given that they seem to keep overcompensating for Trick Attack in NIN's balance tuning, I think would be nice if we got some supportive ninjutsu that offers additional party benefits like in-combat movement speed buffs, regens, and other such things to make it like the red mage/dancer of melee jobs in terms of how much utility it offers.

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That would be nice. It would give Ninja another piece of identity unique to it as a close range melee class, besides its use of ninjutsu.

Though at the same time, I'd prefer a saboteur Ninja over a party support Ninja, but hell, at least that's be something more than what we currently have with it.

That, and our poison positionals brought back as a stun and poison overtime technique that can be stacked, increasing the chance of paralysis interruption and damage dealt by poison, in addition to the timer on how long they last upon the enemy being reset every time you use them.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

* SCH: Eos/Selene.

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What? when did this happen?
I could've sworn I saw a fairy floating on the SCH when I was tanking yesterday

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Originally Posted by hagare

What? when did this happen?
I could've sworn I saw a fairy floating on the SCH when I was tanking yesterday

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While Eos sort of functions the same as it always has, Selene was completely stripped of its identity and now only functions as pretty much alternative glamour to Eos. :(

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Originally Posted by Soge01

While Eos sort of functions the same as it always has, Selene was completely stripped of its identity and now only functions as pretty much alternative glamour to Eos. :(

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so the only functional fairy is Eos now basically.
Selene's fate gives me a "put the lotion on the skin" vibes xD
And SMN is getting their dots removed in 6.0 aren't they.
But they were the DoT class @.@
At least 5 years ago.

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Originally Posted by hagare

so the only functional fairy is Eos now basically.
Selene's fate gives me a "put the lotion on the skin" vibes xD
And SMN is getting their dots removed in 6.0 aren't they.
But they were the DoT class @.@
At least 5 years ago.

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Yup. Lol, I haven't seen that movie, but it hurts seeing Selene being treated like a glamour. x'D

To be fair to new SMN, aesthetically, it functions a hell of alot better than DoT Summoner. Though I hope with the removal of the DoTs, the devs are thinking of giving us a new class that focuses on DoT upkeep, as despite DoT SMN's aesthetic problems with being a traditional Summoner, it was still fun to play and kept us pretty busy.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Yup. Lol, I haven't seen that movie, but it hurts seeing Selene being treated like a glamour. x'D

To be fair to new SMN, aesthetically, it functions a hell of alot better than DoT Summoner. Though I hope with the removal of the DoTs, the devs are thinking of giving us a new class that focuses on DoT upkeep, as despite DoT SMN's aesthetic problems with being a traditional Summoner, it was still fun to play and kept us pretty busy.

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you haven't seen silence of the lambs!?
NIN coulda been the DoT class with their poisons and all

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I'd actually like to see an ice themed Ninjutsu as part of our rotation tho.
...
Hyosho Ranyu

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Hyosho Ranryu not good enough? It is literally Ice Shurikens and the description calls it ice elemental and it is used as part of your rotation.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Hyosho Ranryu not good enough? It is literally Ice Shurikens and the description calls it ice elemental and it is used as part of your rotation.

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I just assumed it was unaspected, never really read it carefully.
It doesn't look like an ice skill to me.

Imo if it's actually meant to be ice they could make it look more like ice.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

We don't talk about Hyoton.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Kassatsu it for Hyosho Ranryu, better ice.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I've used Hyoton before to save the day in dungeons or simply stay alive after everyone else has died until they get there but yeah it's obviously not part of your rotation.

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Guys, it was a joke.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I'd actually like to see an ice themed Ninjutsu as part of our rotation tho.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I just assumed it was unaspected, never really read it carefully.
It doesn't look like an ice skill to me.

Imo if it's actually meant to be ice they could make it look more like ice.

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As has been pointed out, it Hyosho Ranryu is an ice element attack—it's ice colored, has some snow flurries, has an ice sound, and the ability reads "Deals ice damage..."

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

As has been pointed out, it Hyosho Ranryu is an ice element attack—it's ice colored, has some snow flurries, has an ice sound, and the ability reads "Deals ice damage..."

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It never read as ice visually to me, it sounds like glass to me and is completely white.
Imo if it's actually meant to be ice they could do a better job at communicating that beyond just the description.