[Endwalker Spoilers] MSQ Hearbreak and Dissillusionment. [Personal Opinion Vent]

I don't know where to put this, but as it relates to the story/MSQ, I though this might be the best place to vent. It's not exactly easy to post walls of text on Twitter. And a lot of people don't click Twitlonger.

I know this will be controversial and contentious. But a forum generally seems like the best sort of place to put this.

Endwalker is a great expansion that everybody loves. And I don't decry that at all.
But I had to take breaks, the story has gotten more and more dark with every expansion. This is the first time I had to take week long breaks due to the depression the MSQ had induced in me. I get that it is about the end of the world, and moving past pain and finding hope is the literal theme of the expansion.

But I started to question sometimes why I was playing a video game when I wasn't experiencing fun. Endwalker was suffering. It was painful. It was depressing. It was everything you would expect from an end of the world. A finale to the building story more brutal and grotesque and cruel than anything before it.

I never expected a Final Fantasy game to be happy go lucky and free from tragedy. It's not a Slice of Life Comedy. But I was left feeling that Final Fantasy XIV has transformed into something else entirely than what it began as. And wondering if I should move on to something else. But with my sunk cost fallacy and attachment. I liked being a Lalafell. I had for years. I liked Hydaelyn since the very beginning. I became very attached to the world, just like Vana'diel. I wanted another Vana'diel, but with HD graphics.

Final Fantasy XIV looks better than Final Fantasy XI. The world has more detail. The races are more varied, the designs are richer. Lalafells look better than Tarutaru. Miqote look better than Mithra. And there are male Mithra this time. The Black Shroud is beautiful. XIV is an easier game to control and navigate. With many serious quality of life improvements over XI, especially in terms of things like user interface. You can jump! And there are great places to do so!

And thankfully, Final Fantasy XIV hasn't decided to turn my second favourite character, Hydaelyn, evil.

I really like many of the characters. This is a subjective gender experience, but as someone who likes having women leaders and caretaker figures in video games to look up to, XIV was wonderful, especially in the beginning. Some people might have even unfortunately seen it as a little bit "misandrist", if there really even is such a thing. Most of the heroes and leaders were women, while admittedly most of the villains were a little too male leaning. People complained it was a little too black and white morally, having our band of largely female heroes and leaders who are morally good, and "generic" at the time, people complained, Asican and Evil Empire villains(who were mostly male". I get that it was a bit one sided and black and white, perhaps even a bit unbalanced.

But it was nice for me. A nice Mothercrystal Goddess, symbolizing a good world. Of Square Enix's project and creation symbolically. Her love for the world reflecting Square Enix's love of the world and desire to see people enjoy playing it, even if it meant crashing Dalamud and starting over. Struggling to win back the image of the game expressed not so subtly through various characters like City States, Hydaelyn, Loisoix, ect.

Hydaelyn, Nanamo, Merlwyb, Senna, Minfilia. All leaders of their own sectors. Against some, admittedly simple and often one dimensional(and often skewing male) threat to the realm.

I could feel this importance of empathy and heroism in contrast to conquest and elitism. Asicans were cruel, elitist, and selfish. Willing to use others for their own gain instead of empathizing. A contrast to Hydaelyn's symbolized empathy at the time. As someone who saw and still sees empathy as an absolute good, this was important to me.

It may not have been the most challenging of ideas, but that wasn't what I was looking for. I was looking for a video game. A hobby. Fun.

It always had dark moments, but there was always so much brightness, hope, and heroism. It was never too brutal, too dark, too depressing.

And I felt more like my character was just some small part of Eorzea. Before moving on to the wide world with expansion. Eorzea was big. Eorzea was important. These leaders and organizations were bigger than me. Lasting forces of nations, with grand histories and cultures I had yet to uncover, and play some small part in as an adventure in. Feeling small, in comparison to an eternal mothercrystal. Small, in comparison to grand sprawling cultures, with histories to personally uncover. And, even in the case of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, while a hero, still considered underneath a leader.

Growth is always important. One wants to feel stronger in an RPG. Or have character growth. And not be just a rookie adventurer forever.

But now I feel overpowered, especially in a narrative sense. Saving the world so many times, now saving the universe. Warrior of Light, that can make sense in the context of an MMORPG in that there were the Warriors of Light, many, who played some small part in the battle of Carteneau. You weren't "THE Warrior of Light", you were, 'a' Warrior of Light. Someone with a gift, but still in service to something bigger than yourself, a continuation of those forgotten Warriors of Light. Not THE hero, but a potential hero.

Now we're back to MMORPG stories, that, no matter how Final Fantasy XIV is lauded for its story, still falls into the same themepark bizarreness of sharing the same "chosen hero" as every other player. Worse yet, %90 of the content is locked behind this MSQ. And that load of MSQ to collect to get to other content, has only gotten thicker with each expansion.

Each expansion, taking away opportunities to engage in sandbox, personal expression content outside of the MSQ. If the MSQ isn't your personal thing, you just want to fish, or farm, or craft, that's too bad. All is gated behind it.

And with each MSQ, the content like that you made be there for, the desire to feel like you're a Fisher or a Merchant, is taken away by the ever increasing narrative that you're not your own character. You're the hero. You're the Warrior of Light, not a Warrior of Light, THE Warrior of Light. And the Warrior of Darkness. And Azem, part of some grand history race, the cheapens and overshadows the cultures of Eorzea and the world today.

You don't get to feel like your own character. Because the MSQ is too busy telling you how important it is to do anything. And that same MSQ not telling you that you're an individual, but telling you that you, player, are Azem. Which will never mesh well in an MMORPG where everyone is given a linear story. Linear stories just don't work well in multiplayer games, they're jarring. You know you're not the chosen hero, you're another player, making your way through the world.

And yet, instead of embracing that, XIV has gone headfirst into this problem of the genre. To the point of making you feel like you can't be your own character, which is supposed to be the point.

I didn't ask to be "the hero", I didn't ask to be Azem. And I'm actually really disappointing by the direction the story has gone.

Hydaelyn was a great symbolic character to make you feel small. That there was a maternal character watching over you, that you would always, no matter what, be weaker and smaller than. And that the cultures that made up here world was important, beautiful, expansive, and worth protecting. Her symbolizing the development team and their love for the game.

It was heartbreaking, then, to see Hydaelyn to be revealed to be a Primal. It might not have been so bad if to challenge our assumption as players, that Primals we've been fighting, were always a bad thing. But Shadowbringers undermined this symbolism is horrible ways. Making many people sympathize more with the villains, and many deciding or wanting Hydaelyn to be the villain. This male dominated Ascian convocation became the "Unsung, misunderstood heroes" of Final Fantasy XIV to many people. A glorious, superior group of tall, learned, logical men. Who simply wanted to to restore their superior people and culture in comparison to our tiny, pathetic sundered planet.

I have never liked this Amaurot civilization. They weren't the races that we the player can play as, at best they're a tall version of Hyur. This implies it's better to be tall, and better to be Hyur. And this makes the cultures they built in the beginning, seem small and insignificant in comparison to these Greek, ancient Hyur looking people. It makes it feel like if you're not a Hyur, you're somehow lesser. Final Fantasy XIV should be sending the message that all player characters are valid, and that diversity is good. Instead, this cast of what was largely male villains are treated as our superiors, and morally grey at worst.

While I'm relieved that people's suspicions or desire for the Maternal figure of Hydaelyn to be further "deconstructed" for the sake of "good storytelling" or even turned evil. I am glad that wish was not granted, or that suspicion proved. It was heartbreaking to see people villainize her, when this was the opposite of what I found comforting about XIV, and came here for to begin with. I went into Shadowbringers with a negative outlook about it long before playing it, simply because of the deleterious impact it had on what I loved about the game.

But while thankfully that did not happen. Thankfully they (rightfully) did not butcher and destroy what was good about her character by turning her evil. They arguably did just as bad. If not even worse!

Instead of being the coddling mother she was best as. A maternal figure of empathy that symbolized love for the world. She was killed. Empathy itself has been villainized! And they pitted her against pure empathy, as someone posing a challenge to her children. Much of what her symbolic position she held in 1.0 and A Realm Reborn(an incredibly underrated world), was replaced by Meteion. Hydaelyn symbolized love for the world then. Instead, we got our empathetic character in Meteion, who symbolizes childhood innocence, purity, and an idealized childlike sensitivity, rather than by a maternal figure. And that empathetic character was turned most destructive villain in the series, because the source of the Sound and the Final Days, due to being empathetic.

And in which Hydaelyn essentially, fights against her. And sheds much of her Maternalism. And she dies. She dies a hero, but she still dies. It's still a nice gesture that her Mothercrystal saves our world as a vessel of hope among despair. And that she tells us important things like seeking Joy in Darkness. And symbolizes Hope, which is very important.

I still find it absolutely gross that they took something good and important, like empathy, and utterly villainized it in this innocent girl. It's twisted and wrong and disgusting to try to portray something good like empathy as a force for evil and destruction in Meteion and Hermes.

I would argue that people who aren't on Team Hydaelyn, who wanted her to be morally grey at best. And further redemption of the Paternal Greek men, the Ancients/Amarotines/Ascians. I would argue they got more of that than many realized. Hydaelyn's message about the importance of both good and bad, of suffering being a force for good, is more than a little bit questionable. It sounds like the self justifications of someone who knows she is burdened with stopping the Final Days. She knows that she lives in a universe full of despair, so sets out forcing people to come to terms with it. And by doing so, makes people suffer. It comes off as her now being a mouthpiece for the developers trying to send the message that "it's important to experience great despair and overcome it to grow as a person", but if you disagree with that narrative, it feels misguided or biased. And her choice indeed seems morally grey.

If one is an ethical hedonist utilitarian, one might not agree with that worldview. And how this is the narrative of the story that Hydaelyn is being forced to pushed. That a Yin Yang balance of suffering and Joy gives life meaning. And that "too much or too little empathy is a bad thing, actually".

But Meteion is like my ideal self. Someone who just wants to be friends, make others happy, and empathize and share in other people's feelings. I'm even more horrified by the writing team villainizing that than I would have been if they made Hydaelyn a villain. Because they're not just challenging a character or changing them, they're putting forth an idea I find repugnant. It's disgusting to suggest empathy is actually a harmful thing.

But pulling back from that a bit, since this is a stream of conciseness rant, and not as organized as it should be. I'm just dishearten by the direction of all of this. I'm in a linear story, that I'm disappointed by the direction of. I don't like how it has changed, what it has done to my favourite characters. I don't like the message it sends now. I don't like the fact that any personal self expression content is locked behind this MSQ, once size fits all chosen hero narrative. One that is getting brutally more and more depressing to the point it is starting to more resemble Made in Abyss than the simple adventure it started as. And I don't like the fact that everything we've been introduced to has been cheapened by its direction.

The world felt large and we felt small. Now we feel unimaginably large and the world we've seen feels so tiny and insignificant. A little sundered speck in a depressing universe. The Great Filter and the long term effects of Dark Energy is definitely an interesting thing for Final Fantasy of all things to explore.

But I play video games to express, create, and express myself. To have fun. To escape the Paternalistic, cruel world I live in, for something that has Maternal, empathetic energy. I didn't know 10 years ago that the plan was to culminate the story by showing a mom turn into a demon and murder her children and seeing a kind leader being eaten alive, a South Asian culture being brutalized and made torture porn to send the message that despair is important to give live meaning, and must be experienced and overcome to experience the good parts. A person can already experience this brutality and hope by becoming a nurse who treats Covid19 patients. And I would much rather do that, help real people and suffer those real, meaningful sorrows. Than play a video game and have an utterly horrible, unfun time. I understand some people want to be challenged by their fiction. Not all want the challenge of living through being a doctor or nurse in a pandemic, but love the catharsis of being emotionally challenged in a video game. I'm not one of those people. I wanted a fun, feel-good, escapist adventure when I first signed up for Final Fantasy XIV.

And not only is that not what Final Fantasy XIV's story has developed into. It is required in order to get into the other content. I can't just go fish and farm for ingredients in these new areas. They are always locked behind this MSQ. And this is the most brutal one yet. I want to go fishing, I want to be a rice farmer, a merchant, and Immortal Flame, but it's all locked behind a brutal MSQ, that teaches against that very thing. I'm not supposed to be an Ul'dah soldier, a crop farmer, a merchant. I'm supposed to be the busy hero, Azem, saving the world that didn't need to be always threatened to begin with, by attacking an innocent bird child for the crime and sin of being empathetic.

I'm not playing video games to attack innocent children who are shoehorned into being villains to support a misguided message about empathy and balance between suffering. Attacking children for their empathy is kind of gross and uncomfortable. Seeing that empathy being turned into a villainous trait is even more gross.

I'm not playing video games to see Indian or South Asian families be ripped apart and eaten alive by demons.

I don't like the ancients, or Amaurot. Their lack of empathy and willingness to sacrifice life was rather gross. I'm really disappointed that all of the races that we play as are a new creation. I'm disappointed by the fact that I'm in any way related to Azem. I'm disappointed by the fact that all of the playable races of the game are a new invention. I wish the ancients weren't our ancestors. I'm disappointed Hydaelyn/Venat is one of them. I'm disappointed by the fact I can't do anything without continuing the MSQ.

Endwalker made me cry, multiple times. It made me angry, it made me furious. It made me depressed. It made me take breaks. It broke my heart. And I'm sure for a lot of people that's proof of how objectively good it is, it made them feel things. But all fiction does that, does it not? If I'm absolutely honest to myself, and about myself to you all. I absolutely hated most of my time with Endwalker. It was not fun. It was painful. And every year I'm starting to wonder more and more why I keep playing, and if the only reason I haven't unsubbed is the sunk cost fallacy. I've put hundreds upon hundreds of hours and hundreds upon hundreds of dollars into this brutal game that is utterly painful and miserable.

I really wish, I never made the mistake of starting this game and becoming invested and addicted. This game was never made for me. Or at least it is transformed into something that gives me pain rather than fun.

This is a controversial, emotional wall of text that I don't expect most people to read, much less agree with. I'm certainly not trolling, this is my main account that I've spent thousands of hours in. It's rambling and incoherent. And I don't expect a positive response.

But it is all from the heart, I guarantee that. I am miserable and disappointed. I'm sick of Endwalker and I never want to experience that journey ever again. I am so sick of the MSQ.

Too much empathy can be a problem. Especially if, like in Meteon's case, you start bringing yourself down and taking everyone else with you. There's a big difference between understanding someone's pain and making yourself and those around you equally miserable. That's what Meteon was doing. It wasn't intentional, but it still had to be stopped.

You are not likely to find too many that agree with you. I certainly don't. I love being the hero that crafts or gathers to relax on my off time. I love that I was once someone who was important to the unsundered world. I feel sorry for the Ascians, now that I know their full stories, and I for one would love to have had a split timeline where the Convocation and the remainder of their people had a chance at unsundered happiness. IMHO what Venat did was wrong, and just as much genocide as what the Ascians were doing. I live for angsty stories, and for shades of gray, because it's what makes the story believeable.

If that isn't something you like, then maybe XIV isn't the game for you.

I'm sorry that Endwalker was such an unpleasant experience for you, and if that was your experience, then that was your experience. But the estimation/conclusion that Endwalker's narrative and themes are demonizing empathy, made Hydaelyn less maternal, villainized children, and/or that suffering/despair is a good thing that is "needed", I would have to protest and argue that is a grievous misunderstanding/misinterpretation of what Endwalker's story was/is doing.

I am not personally interested in getting into a detailed debate on the matter, so instead I will provide a link to another individual's essay on Endwalker's story and themes, which I think is a great breakdown and analysis of Endwalker's major narrative themes:

Endwalker, the Nature of Suffering, and the Buddhist Concept of Dukha

While I don't agree with everything, I do share similar reservations about Azem and tying our WoL to Azem (my biggest fear is that trend continuing and strengthening), nor do I like the Ancients or their culture or visual designs and really hope the game moves away from the focus on them because that is an important part of Eorzea's history but only a small part. The Unsundered are to me like ARR Alphinaud: a similar sheltered adolescent arrogance, a desire to improve the world contrasted to a distastefully patronizing treatment of others, and the blundering disaster caused by those traits. And similarly, that I vastly prefer the Alphinaud of HW onwards because of character development and a better costume.

I'm curious and hopeful how the 6.1 adventures start and how the game hints that we are shifting back to a smaller-scale adventurer role. Also EW was very heavy not just visually but thematically closer to SF than Fantasy. Which FF games have been a blend of both genres, but I would like the pendulum to swing back.

I also agree that there is something ..annoying about having the UnSundered NPCs in their ugly shapeless robes be Hyur/Viera/Elezen models all given Hyur ears and then the side-quests show that the Arkasadora and Lupin and probably then most 'Beast Tribes' have their roots in Ancients' creations, therefore undoing the MSQ efforts to repudiate the xenophobia created by Ul'dan merchants and championed by the Garleans, also creating an unspoken hierarchy with people choosing to play their WoL as a Hyur as opposed to Hrothgar.

Each to their own, I guess. I think some people just read too deeply into some things and so see stuff that arguably isn't there. I do rather suspect that any game, movie or TV show is made all the more enjoyable when not viewed through a lens that allows for anything and everything to be seen as 'problematic'.

I have my beef with some elements of the story and certain characters, but aside from a bit of grumbling here and there I just shrug and move on with my day.

Few points.
I personally see no way to interpret Hydelyns character as anything but Heroic. All said and done she held her Hope against Despair when all Unsundered have already succumbed to it.
Empathy is not vilified, but rather shown as equally powerful as logic. And equally dangerous. One must not forget that Empathy was also used to resolve the crisis.
Since we didn't go to the edge of the Universe to defeat Meteon. We went there to save her from despair.
The main message I took away from the story is that one cannot loose hope no matter what. The soil both Despair and Hope grow is basically the same. So you will most likely find them together. And should not lose one and succumb to the other. It's not Despair that Hydelyn was cultivating all those years after all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Theozilla

I'm sorry that Endwalker was such an unpleasant experience for you, and if that was your experience, then that was your experience. But the estimation/conclusion that Endwalker's narrative and themes are demonizing empathy, made Hydaelyn less maternal, villainized children, and/or that suffering/despair is a good thing that is "needed", I would have to protest and argue that is a grievous misunderstanding/misinterpretation of what Endwalker's story was/is doing.

I am not personally interested in getting into a detailed debate on the matter, so instead I will provide a link to another individual's essay on Endwalker's story and themes, which I think is a great breakdown and analysis of Endwalker's major narrative themes:

Endwalker, the Nature of Suffering, and the Buddhist Concept of Dukha

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While that's an interesting read, we should keep in mind that the Japanese interpretation of Buddhism, the cycle of reincarnation, and Dukha is intermingled with Shinto beliefs and is actually quite a bit different from some other forms of Buddhist thought. For example that page suggests that the concept of suffering in Dukha isn't so much akin to Western beliefs in regards to suffering-as-punishment - Whereas actually there's quite a bit of overlap in the context of the cycle of karmic reincarnation. Indeed Buddhist mode of thought is actually in significant contradiction to the ideals expressed in Endwalker, as the highest Buddhist ideal is to escape the cycle of reincarnation and Dukha though Nirvana, which is in essence what Meteion was attempting to do by ending the cycle of life throughout the universe. The beliefs expressed in the game are more similar to Western Nihilist thought really, with the attestment that there is no meaning beyond what meaning one gives themselves.

Aside from all that, it does bother me a bit that they decided to go into the realm of combating far-reaching universal concepts and ideals. It always seemed to me that above all else the overriding ideal of the game was freedom in all it's forms, including freedom of thought, and Yoshida has even said this directly. And while I don't agree with OP in the notion that showing the flaws of empathetic thinking is a bad thing, they did really put all their eggs in the "suffering is good" basket. That is to say I didn't really feel like the game was giving me the freedom to reach my own conclusion, rather it was attempting to hamfistedly push one perspective and answer above all others. Oftentimes in a way that was detrimental or contradictory to past parts of the narrative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Veloran

While that's an interesting read, we should keep in mind that the Japanese interpretation of Buddhism, the cycle of reincarnation, and Dukha is intermingled with Shinto beliefs and is actually quite a bit different from some other forms of Buddhist thought. For example that page suggests that the concept of suffering in Dukha isn't so much akin to Western beliefs in regards to suffering-as-punishment - Whereas actually there's quite a bit of overlap in the context of the cycle of karmic reincarnation. Indeed Buddhist mode of thought is actually in significant contradiction to the ideals expressed in Endwalker, as the highest Buddhist ideal is to escape the cycle of reincarnation and Dukha though Nirvana, which is in essence what Meteion was attempting to do by ending the cycle of life throughout the universe. The beliefs expressed in the game are more similar to Western Nihilist thought really, with the attestment that there is no meaning beyond what meaning one gives themselves.

Aside from all that, it does bother me a bit that they decided to go into the realm of combating far-reaching universal concepts and ideals. It always seemed to me that above all else the overriding ideal of the game was freedom in all it's forms, including freedom of thought, and Yoshida has even said this directly. And while I don't agree with OP in the notion that showing the flaws of empathetic thinking is a bad thing, they did really put all their eggs in the "suffering is good" basket. That is to say I didn't really feel like the game was giving me the freedom to reach my own conclusion, rather it was attempting to hamfistedly push one perspective and answer above all others. Oftentimes in a way that was detrimental or contradictory to past parts of the narrative.

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While some schools of Buddhism put more emphasis on the concept of karmic reincarnation than others, that concept is generally kinda its own thing separate from the concept of duḥkha, which is more about the nature of conditioned things than the nature of karma.

Also I have to disagree that Endwalker's ideals are contradicting Buddhist thought, while Endwalker (and FFXIV in general) may be unconcerned with the ideal/goal of escaping reincarnation/rebirth and certainly isn't trying to replicate all the features of Buddhism 1-to-1 (Greek mythology and Pandora's box is also undeniably one of the other major influences on Endwalker's themes), it's also not framing Meteion's conclusion as being the same as reaching Nirvana. What Meteion was doing is more like a inversion/twisted version of attempting to reach Nirvana, it's very similar to Seymour Guado's conclusion in FFX, who is also paralleled to the Buddha but has instead come to the opposite conclusion/epiphany that the Buddha did (the Buddha and Buddhism are largely agreed to be not pro-suicide/death seeking/anti-life philosophies). Meteion essentially made the common mistake of conflating "no-self" with "non-self/not-self" (anattā), and as the twins point out in their sacrifice, Meteion is still very much ruled by her fears and aversions and exalts ignorance, which are among the central concepts reaching Nirvana liberates/comes into harmony with.
Venat/Hydaelyn essentially fulfills the thematic role of a bodhisattva in contrast.

And I really disagree with the argument that Endwalker is promoting the idea that "suffering is good", it's arguing that suffering (duḥkha) is an inherent aspect of life (as expressed in stuff like the Three Marks of Existence and Four Noble Truths) and is inextricably linked to the joys and pleasures in life and even hope itself. But that's not the same as saying that "bad things that happen to people are actually good" or that people should suffer, rather, is it an acknowledgement of the reality/truth that people will encounter/experience suffering (duḥkha) in some form or another as part of being a living thing/soul, and how to live with that (i.e. the learning to "walk" expression in Endwalker).

The underpinnings of duhkha wonderfully articulates the theme that Endwalker- and indeed XIV starting from Answers onward- expresses and the tie into Seymour and X is something I also appreciated. Thank you for the link.

The offhand mention of the Silmarillion in another thread send my brain spinning on Tolkien's Catholic sensibilities with the influence from pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon and Finnish literature and his setup for the Gift of Men (aka death) that the souls of Men, the Third Song, leave behind the confines of Arda, aka the material world, to return carrying with them the experiences to the Timeless Halls and their Creator (or the unknown oblivion, which as an atheist I appreciated). And that it is the 'immortal' elves who are trapped with the planet, being reborn into it even if they die -with or without memories immediately restored- and by the Second and Third Age have as their central vice that of being preservers- of trying to keep their world in amber to preserve the 'paradise' and reject the mortality of the world beyond Valinor. And the villains' fatal flaws of wanting to order the world to their desires with an emphasis on order. But most of, and the area where I found the two fantasy universes to align instead of just share interesting but diverging focus was in that despair was positioned as the greatest foe to overcome (i.e. Denethor and Theoden).

A lot of thought provoking things you’ve brought up here. I’ve got a 12 hour shift coming up but will reply once I get my thoughts together. I’m glad you shared your thoughts tho and I read every word!

Too much to quote. I'll start by saying while I disagree with most of it, some things I do agree.

1) I'm not a fan of being 'the one'. It's tolerable when the game offers a variety of dialog options so I can feel like I have some form of self expression, but I'm finding those to be limited with most either being the same statement worded differently or it not mattering as the following NPC dialog is the same regardless of what you choose. EW was particularly egregious when it came to dialog options being overwhelmingly affirmative to the extent I felt disconnected. I'm no longer playing my WoL, I'm playing the devs' idea of the WoL who would never say the things I'm thinking apparently.

I am torn on being Azem. While I liked the connection to the Ancient world and its characters, I do not like it being used as another form to manipulate the personality of my character. Azem is, frankly, the polar opposite of me and those traits are now being carried over to the WoL. I didn't feel like I was RPing someone else's character before, but I'm starting to now. Having said that, the tales Hythlodaeus told sound way more fun than anything I've experienced as the WoL. I would jump at the chance to play as Azem through the unsundered world with him and Emet. I just think it gets dicey when they try to merge an established character with the player character. It worked (literally) with Ardbert, but he was a separate person whereas Azem has the same gender and physical appearance as the WoL. I don't know if this is making sense. :P

2) I have to agree with Brightamethyst, too much empathy can be a bad thing. I would add that it can be crippling if you feel so much of someone's pain that it's of detriment to you as well.

3) EW made me feel rage and despair, but not in a good way. I felt both at the end of Elpis when I realized the writers weren't going to let us save anyone. Not only that, but they made a hero out of the person responsible. Fantastic. The rest of the expansion was soured for me at that point.

Similar feelings but from the opposite direction on emotional connection, amusingly. There is nobody, including Venat who I do like how she was written instead of how I feared she would, in the Ancient World -or the Unsundered World itself- that I find preferable to the characters and zones that I would be giving up. Playing as Azem is my nightmare because I could not stand that the game forced me to play with Emet or that my character reached out for him, and I find the Unsundered of Amaurot and Elpis is be somehow more alien and incomplete as immortal beings than the dragons. The only part of Azem that still feels relatable is the desire to leave Amaurot and travel among other people helping them. Azem's crystal has become the new deus ex machina that is starting to overstate its welcome, and I do wish they had not tied our WoL to Azem, but they have so I just hope that they continue to leave Azem as much a mystery as possible and move away from the Ancients in the next expansion.

MAD BECAUSE SMALL, JEALOUS OF TALL. (at least thats how it felt reading the part about Ascians being "ideal" because they are tall lol)

Quite a lot to unpack so sorry if I’ve missed something.

But I just wanted to say that from how I interpreted things Meteion and her power - her empathy - are neither evil nor dark in any way.

Rather, Meteion’s power works more like a mirror than a television. It can only reflect back what it’s been exposed to. The ultimate result of course being the Endsinger.

But I don’t think Meteion herself had any ill will or hatred for the world. Rather, due to her nature being reflective, she’s only able to act in accordance with the kinds of things she saw. Due to Hermes’ misguided attempts to find the meaning of life, all Meteion saw was sights no living being should see. Civilisations brought to ruin, by poor fortune, by their own hand, by the hands of the others. Creatures whose races had lived such unimaginable lifespans that ‘living’ begun to lose all meaning. As a mirror, Meteion became a reflection of the despair, the hopelessness and helplessness those worlds felt.

But what was missing from those other worlds, our greatest weapon again the Endsinger, was Hope. And it was ultimately Hydaelyn / Venats actions, all of them from the Sundering to Hearing your Answer and subsequent return to the planet, was to nurture the hope within you. Honestly, I think you could use ‘Dynamis’ and ‘Hope’ interchangeably; our hope reacts to Dynamis, but Dynamis too is our hope . Without it, we couldn’t have hoped to defeat the Endsinger.

Empathy, when it’s purely reflective, tends to forget the most fundamental aspect of living. We face despair, darkness, and tragedy, but throughout it all we ultimately endure because even when it’s unspoken, we still hold hope in our hearts.


…that was my interpretation of things anyway

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Originally Posted by EirolOcarrol

Disappointment with EW

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You aren't alone in your disappointment, though reasons differ individual to individual. It wasn't perfect, and definitely had a meta injection of, "Accept this expansion, warts and all."

For me, it was a 10/10 all around up until about Elpis. After that, fun factor remains a 10/10, plot factor shoots down to about a 6~7/10, leaning towards 7.

Have you lost your mother IRL or has she been absent from your life? Your post's fixation on mothers and basically being a little toddler guided around by one sort of screams that to me. We all cope differently, so no judgment, and I lost my own mother last year to cancer, so I can understand that sort of loss. If it's just something you amuse yourself with though, then I'd suggest taking a step back, and taking a deep breath. Focus on the parts of the game that still bring you fun.

The things like fishing are all still there, as are the simpler stories and small things in sidequests. You can always skip the story if it becomes too unenjoyable for you. The story has hinted strongly that we will return to smaller stakes, more mundane adventures. Really, what choice do we have, when this expansion basically informed us that all of the known universe is dead, gone, or Stillgoin' on the Source?

As others have said, Empathy is like anything else when taken to an extreme. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.

Fathers have empathy, too. Many, too many, fathers have given their whole life in our cruel world for the sake of their families and loved ones. But men aren't ever going to be as welcoming as women. They deal with harshness far more often, and they harden their hearts out of necessity. And if they don't, then they spiral into insanity.

I'll also say that in that, "race of tall men" they also had tall women. They even told a love story last expansion about a couple.

And you see, you chose the word sympathize, when you said that Shadowbringers made the playerbase respect the villains more, but it actually caused many to go one step further and empathize with them. It is this empathy that has lead to so many heated debates. Approximating the feeling of their pain lead many to turn away from Hydaelyn (if they'd even been attached to her prior).

As far as your real world comparisons go... I feel they miss the mark. The tiny sliver of the contemporary Final Days that we experience was indeed brutal. It wasn't really like treating COVID19 patients though. It was much more an approximation of living through a military invasion. Hard, brutal deaths at almost every turn. Not ailing deaths in a bed. In this vein it is nothing new for the game, so I fail to understand you here, though perhaps it was the scene where the mother is killed at The Font of Maya that really pushed you over the edge on top of everything else. The game has had many occurrences of brutality and death before. Notably in the 2.55 Bloody Banquet, Lord Haurchefant's Sacrifice, Ysayle's Sacrifice, the deaths or near deaths of half the adventurers you recruited from Mor Dhona leading up to the Steps of Faith... A son forced to shoot a man he knows, then killed by Yotsuyu's guards. There are even more.

FFXIV has always shown us death, destruction, and mayhem, but it has also always chosen to champion for togetherness, peace, prosperity, and love. It's not perfect, but no story really can be.

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Originally Posted by EirolOcarrol

And with each MSQ, the content like that you made be there for, the desire to feel like you're a Fisher or a Merchant, is taken away by the ever-increasing narrative that you're not your own character. You're the hero. You're the Warrior of Light, not a Warrior of Light, THE Warrior of Light. And the Warrior of Darkness....You don't get to feel like your own character. Because the MSQ is too busy telling you how important it is to do anything. And that same MSQ not telling you that you're an individual, but telling you that you, player, are Azem...

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After thinking on it a bit, this is the part I agree with the most. It's like watching your character change in front of you and you're like "I'd never say or do that" but you can't stop it. I hear that there were players who complained about the character not having any expressions and they wanted more dialogue options. So I guess this was the writers' response to that. I definitely wish they had different options to choose from though, instead of like 3 options that basically say the same thing.

Also...not sure they should've had us fight the embodiment of despair itself - the scope of the story just seemed too big. So now anything we do going forward will probably feel like a downgrade to some people, because they've raised the ceiling higher and higher until we're so high that if we keep going it kind of feels ridiculous. It kind of reminds me of Dragon Ball Super, how Goku fights stronger and stronger enemies until they're fighting people from different universes and literal gods and it just gets weirder and weirder. In my opinion they should stick with more local stories. I still maintain that HW is my favorite storyline with SHB almost tied.

If the story is making you feel like this, maybe it's time to try something else? Or you could not focus on the story and just do the things you love to do in game. Before I started paying attention to the story, I still had a blast doing other things too. There are so many games out there, but no game is worth your health and peace of mind!

That was a long read, OP, and while I can't say I agree with a lot of what you said, I can say I see how/why you feel the way you do, and I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't expect my words will provide any comfort or consolation, but on the off-chance a different perspective might help, I'll share anyways.

On the matter of the WoL being Azem, I'm fairly unphased by it to be honest. Our main argument with the Ascians has long been, "We get it, you had a perfect world, we're not perfect. It doesn't matter; we are who we are and we have value in our existence, even if you don't see it." Its this thinking that has always made it very easy for me to brush off all the Azem comparisons, even the crystal as, "Okay, I have some kind of distant soul ancestry with the Azem of the last Fourteen. So what?" I don't see that as defining the WoL at all. Maybe it explains why we're drawn to adventuring, to exploring and helping others, but did that ever really need explaining? How many other ancients were drawn to that kind of lifestyle? How many other candidates were there for the role of Azem?

Our origin is unimportant and entirely immaterial to our choices, and that is the message I took from our comparison to Azem. That the likes of Emet-Selch looked at us and saw Azem was less a matter of our souls being similar, and more a matter of our chosen paths being similar. If we are acknowledged as Azem going forward in the patches and expansions, I don't see it as a connection to a specific ancient, but rather the Ancients themselves looking at us through the lens of their own culture, to understand us better, and I see that as a good thing. Emet-Selch didn't consider us worth much until he was able to see us through the lens of the unsundered world and it's culture.

This idea of, 'being Azem,' to me at least, is nothing more than another title, one among many we wear.






Likewise, I don't consider powercreep to be a big issue either. The Blessing of Light/The Echo are fairly niche power-ups when you get down to it. They save us from being tempered by primals, and it's implied allows us to get an idea of what enemies are about to do in combat (seeing markers for different attacks). We really didn't get any stronger than we've been since the game started, and if we're not fighting primals in the future, then that's half of our, "special strength," nullified. Yes, we went to the edge of the universe and saved Meteion from her ages of despair by fighting despair itself, but what I think is ignored is that the specific battlefield we fought in was comprised ENTIRELY of Dynamis. We did some incredible stuff, but could we do it anywhere? I doubt there is a single location in the universe with as much densely compacted Dynamis as Ultima Thule. The idea that we could have a slug-fight with the embodiment of despair and nihilism anywhere else and win is rendered moot when we only won because WE harnessed the power of Dynamis by embracing hope.

Now that we're back on our world? I don't think we'll be able to harness the power of Dynamis again, and CERTAINLY not to the level of OP we did in Ultima Thule.






As a last thing to discuss, and I expect this one is probably going to be the least helpful, but you did mention, quite frequently, gender in your post.

Speaking through the lens of my own experiences, I have RARELY felt like any character in this game was defined by their gender. By that I mean, almost any character could be any gender and they'd still function perfectly as is. One could argue Alphinaud and Alisae are the poster children of this very point, given how interchangeable they were for the longest time. That said, even when they became more unique from one another, more distinct, it NEVER had anything to do with their gender, but rather their experiences. You've mentioned the Ascians, in particular the Ancients as, 'Greek Men.' To be honest, I never saw that. In fact after reading your post I legitimately had to stop and ask myself, "Did the ancients even have physical gender? How did they procreate? They were masters of Creation Magic. Might they not simply have reproduced by making children via their magic?" And at that point it was easy to realize that gender roles weren't being portrayed by the unsundered at all. Hermes was a caretaker and nurturer to Meteion and all the other creations residing in Elpis, and had immense empathy whenever one had to be unmade.

Hermes was portrayed as Male as far as I could tell, but one could easily say he was very motherly towards any life created by magic. I think people will say he was more of a father figure, but is it because he himself was portrayed as male, or because of something else? How we see these roles is going to be different from one person to the other, but Hermes struck me as exceedingly more, 'Motherly,' than, 'Fatherly.'

So, I think viewing characters by their gender does a disservice to them and the writing in general. Like I said before, just about any character could've been any gender and worked as fine. Minfilia could've been an empathetic and hope-driven young man, and Thancred a hardened woman that took this orphaned boy under her wing. Y'shtola could've been a man studying under Master Matoya, who herself could've been some old man passing on his knowledge to the next generation. Louisoix could've been a woman sacrificing herself to give Eorzea a future, and becoming the Phoenix as a result of that heartfelt wish for renewal.

The gender of the characters changes nothing about the story, and that's something I've always liked about FFXIV. Other games like WoW try SO hard to make their female characters, "Strong," or, "Independent," and in the end just make them caricatures rather than actual characters. Sylvanas inner monologue about being the first female Warchief is just cringe. Y'shtola holding back the Warriors of Darkness, saving Lyse from Xenos, saving an entire culture in the First, etc... THAT is good writing. She's a character, not just a gender.





And a final note, Empathy CAN be bad in excess. Anything is bad in excess. That Meteion fell to despair is not some attack against empathy, but rather a demonstration of the dangers of extremes. One of the paradoxes that has been on my mind increasingly these days is the, "Tolerance Paradox." Should tolerance tolerate intolerance? If so, its only a matter of time until tolerance itself is lost, as the intolerant push intolerance increasingly. For tolerance to exist, intolerance cannot be tolerated.

And I'm at that point where you use a word so much it begins to lose its meaning. Anyways OP, I hope you feel better soon. We might not agree on some things in the story, but I'm genuinely hopeful you find joy again in the game.

I had legitimately written a point-by-point response to this post but I can't submit it because it's over 27k characters long, so I'll just summarize.

RE: Hydaelyn

You are an adult. You say you've been playing XIV since the beginning and played FFXI before that. So you are definitely an adult.

There's a point in our lives, when we are growing up, where we realize that our parents are just... people. They make mistakes, they have stupid opinions, they have hobbies, interests and friends that don't involve us, and we are not the entirety of their lives. There's supposed to be a point in your life where you become an equal to your parents, because you are all adults.

You are supposed to realize mommy is not "a maternal figure of empathy". She's a person, and her life is more than just being your mom. And that's OK. That's part of becoming an adult.

Hydaelyn sundering the world has a very strong connotation of "grow the fuck up". Humanity needed to stop wanting to be coddled 100% of the time, it's time to be an adult and face the world as it is, with it's joys and it's difficulties. It's also reminiscent of several creation myths that tell of "man's fall from grace" and "being expelled from paradise", which also have this connotation. Man was innocent like children, but now needs to deal with the sorrows of the world.

When you finish the trial where you fight Hydaelyn, she pretty much tells you that you're a grown-up now and you don't need mommy to hold your hand anymore. You will always be her brave little spark and she will always love you, but now you need to handle things by yourself.

RE: Empathy being "villainized" -

Empathy has not been villainized. Empathizing with others is how you win in the end. The whole zone of Ultima Thule is characters empathizing with these shades of the dead to open the way.

Quoting Alphinaud on the section right before the last dungeon + trial combo:

"As it was for the denizens of Ultima Thule that barred our way, it is not for us to rebuke and admonish. 'Twas not by passing judgement on the tragic legacies of others that we arrived at this moment. Rather, it was by opening our hearts to their dispair - by understanding and acknowledging their fates, while still refusing to share in them ourselves. To hold fast to hope, not in ignorance, but by choice."

Empathy is good. So much empathy that you lose yourself to the will of others and forget about your own is not. This was the flaw of Meteion. She was a sponge, and nothing else, and that's what happens if you have too much empathy and too little self-preservation in real life too. People will trample all over you, use you up, abuse you, and make you feel like it's your fault.

RE: Wanting the game to be like it was before and bemoaning what it has become. -

You want to go back to a world that doesn't exist anymore, which you see with rose-tinted glasses. So did the Ascians.

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Originally Posted by HemlockEvergreen

snip

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I was thinking of writing a longer response but this basically feels like it nails everything on the head.

Theres also a certain trend of people being bothered by "not being my character" in the MSQ, but the fact of the matter is you are playing a character that is always going to perform certain actions in the MSQ, and you are expected to create a motivation that fits those actions, not the other way around. The Warrior of Light is not your OC, when you are playing the MSQ you are playing a slight variation of a pretty rigid character. Make of that what you wish, but it has been like that from the very beginning, and if you only noticed now its just that the OC in your mind happened to align with the character Squenix created called "The Warrior of Light". Unfortunate that you had to realize like this, but this is how the game is made and you have had plenty of expansions to figure it out.

I am sorry you felt disappointed by the game though, but alas, the nature of media means that someone has to dislike something.

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Originally Posted by AlysanneVrannai

Theres also a certain trend of people being bothered by "not being my character" in the MSQ [...] The Warrior of Light is not your OC, when you are playing the MSQ you are playing a slight variation of a pretty rigid character.

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I've seen this comment made a few times in various other contexts, too. This isn't an RPG where you play a blank-slate character and get to project your own personality or traits on it - even if it does allow for that outside of the MSQ. For the purpose of the MSQ, your character is the writer's protagonist, to tell their story, and you are role-playing that character. It isn't a story where you are just some OC-insert to another's story. Just like most other JRPG, or games/stories/novels for that matter, where you play a given type of character with an already fixed path and follow along as that journey unfolds.

I'm not entirely sure where this started happening. Maybe I've just played too many JRPGs and don't really expect to self-insert like I might in a D&D session.

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Originally Posted by Themis

Just like most other JRPG, or games/stories/novels for that matter, where you play a given type of character with an already fixed path and follow along as that journey unfolds.

I'm not entirely sure where this started happening. Maybe I've just played too many JRPGs and don't really expect to self-insert like I might in a D&D session.

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Yeah I actually never played any type of rpg or mmo before ffxiv. Never played any other ff game besides this one. I actually found out about d&d like 3 months ago lol. That might be more to my liking.

First of all OP, I want to say thanks for pouring your heart out in this post. I disagree with a few of your perspectives regarding Meteion and empathy being villlianized, but I don't really want to "debate" your post. I too, really valued that Hydaelyn was a benevolent mother figure, though I mostly appreciate what was done with her, and that we were able to bond with her in the form of Venat. It gave me the feeling of growing older and bonding with your mother as an adult, learning that she's a person like you. I thought it was nice.

I agree that Thavanair was particularly emotionally draining and brutal, I ended up putting the game down for a few days after the death of Ahewann. Probably a good thing, too. I don't think I'd have been able to enjoy meeting Hermes and Venat as much if the events of Thavanair were still so raw. (Garlemald was draining too, thoug the intrigue of what was going on with Zenos and Fandaniel carried me through that. And then the moon bunnies were a decent palate cleanser.)

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Originally Posted by Themis

I'm not entirely sure where this started happening.

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Whenever they started adding diversity in dialog options. They used to be more varied. At the beginning of SB I could tell Alphinaud that Ala Mhigo wasn't my problem. Sure, it didn't change anything, but it still gave the player the ability to attribute their thoughts and feelings to their (custom made) character. Even in ShB I had options like telling Ardbert he was putting me off my dinner which, by the way, is the best choice for the conversation that follows.

It becomes glaringly obvious when in some situations you can chose (for the sake of example) "I'd love to!" or "Go fly a kite!" vs. other situations are something like "Gosh you're amazing!" or "You're the best person ever!" It's having your character hard react positively or negatively to something that's noticeable and jarring. I had the option in SB to tell Zenos I accepted him, in EW I don't recall a single time I was able to say anything that wasn't spiteful. The irony being I didn't like him in SB, but warmed up to him in EW.

I've played my fair share of JRPGs, but never one in which I had the ability to design my own character or was given any dialog choices at all. It's usually obvious from the beginning that you're RPing an established character even if it's a silent protagonist.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

It becomes glaringly obvious when in some situations you can chose (for the sake of example) "I'd love to!" or "Go fly a kite!" vs. other situations are something like "Gosh you're amazing!" or "You're the best person ever!" It's having your character hard react positively or negatively to something that's noticeable and jarring. I had the option in SB to tell Zenos I accepted him, in EW I don't recall a single time I was able to say anything that wasn't spiteful. The irony being I didn't like him in SB, but warmed up to him in EW.

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Side note here, but there is one thing I've wanted to vent my spleen about for ages.

Back in Stormblood when you're in the Azim Steppe and there's a dialogue option where a Buduga Au Ra is staring you up and down, trying to figure out if they want you or Hien as a captive, and the dialogue options are, "What are you looking at!?" or, "Me! Me! Me! Pick me!" Like damn but I hated those two options FIERCELY. One is so confrontational and almost makes it come off as if you're offended (or homophobic if playing a male character), and the other is childish and immature (or under a certain light, cringe-inducing levels of desperate/salacious). I get that there won't always be a perfect choice for how we each envision our characters, but damn if I haven't always tried to do the MSQ as a polite, well meaning kind of Warrior of Light, the one who'd tell Zenos he was wrong when comparing himself to the WoL, the one who wouldn't say, "Ala Mhigo isn't my fight," even if on an OOC level that was how I felt about it. That one option in Azim Steppe has ALWAYS stuck with me as one I hated because there was no right answer.

Sometimes the best option really is '...' because the quest must continue but the dialogue choices written are not to choice.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

Sometimes the best option really is '...' because the quest must continue but the dialogue choices written are not to choice.

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You'd think so, but I've chosen that one a few times only for my character's facial expressions to be manipulated. It's like, I chose that option because you either didn't give me an alternative with the others or I don't have any feelings one way or the other about what's going on, but you're going to have my character facially react in the same spirit as the options I didn't choose anyway.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

Sometimes the best option really is '...' because the quest must continue but the dialogue choices written are not to choice.

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No, the best option will always be "...this is one of those moments where what I say doesn't matter, isn't it?"

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Originally Posted by HemlockEvergreen

Hydaelyn sundering the world has a very strong connotation of "grow the fuck up". Humanity needed to stop wanting to be coddled 100% of the time, it's time to be an adult and face the world as it is, with it's joys and it's difficulties.

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I missed the part where hydaelyn was actually someone's parent. She was one person in a society of people. One adult among other adults who found out some information and took it upon herself to make a decision that took away everyone's autonomy in the whole world "for the greater good." That's like a random person finding out some information about a horrible event and then deciding that we're not good enough to figure out a plan and thinking "they're not gonna make it, I gotta fix things myself" Then then they decide on their own to do something crazy that changes everyone's life forever. Nah eff that.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

I missed the part where hydaelyn was actually someone's parent. She was one person in a society of people. One adult among other adults who found out some information and took it upon herself to make a decision that took away everyone's autonomy in the whole world "for the greater good." That's like a random person finding out some information about a horrible event and then deciding that we're not good enough to figure out a plan and thinking "they're not gonna make it, I gotta fix things myself" Then then they decide on their own to do something crazy that changes everyone's life forever. Nah eff that.

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It's a good thing there isn't a character like that in the game. The one you're trying to put that on did not do what you just said. Headcanon thread is not here.

Realistically, too much empathy IS a bad thing that can and has driven people to do some horrible things. You need a healthy balance of empathy and apathy to function as a human being.

Plus I do actually love the fact that I am the hero of the story but also am more than that just like Zenos said before the final confrontation. I seek adventure for its sake alone, this includes stuff like fishing, mining, crafting, going on goofball adventures with Hildy and so on.

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Originally Posted by OhNooo

Yeah I actually never played any type of rpg or mmo before ffxiv. Never played any other ff game besides this one. I actually found out about d&d like 3 months ago lol. That might be more to my liking.

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D&D is entirely personalized where you make your own character from the ground up and have complete control of what they say and do. This is pretty much impossible to replicate in video game form outside of RP'ing with other people in MMOs. Western RPG's often give you at least a few different personality types you can choose from which are usually Paragon, Funny man, worlds most boring human, or a complete asshat. Japanese RPG's there is no self insertion at all, you are playing through the games story as you would be reading a manga or watching a series.

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Originally Posted by sorawild34

D&D is entirely personalized where you make your own character from the ground up and have complete control of what they say and do. This is pretty much impossible to replicate in video game form outside of RP'ing with other people in MMOs. Western RPG's often give you at least a few different personality types you can choose from which are usually Paragon, Funny man, worlds most boring human, or a complete asshat. Japanese RPG's there is no self insertion at all, you are playing through the games story as you would be reading a manga or watching a series.

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Which broadly comes from how different cultures actually approached D&D and other tabletop games. In the west they were embraced as basically a form of semi-collaborative storytelling, so when people started making games based on how they played D&D you saw a lot more elements of player choice, interaction with the story, all that (which over time has sorta been slimmed away because of game design logistics but that's a different conversation). But when D&D hit Japan it got popular more as a dungeon-crawler, with the DM being less of a storyteller and more of a puzzle designer, so when those people started making games based on their D&D experience you saw much more linear gameplay and storytelling, but much more elaborate level design.

Neither of those approaches were all that wrong; hell, you can make a decent argument that the style that caught on in Japan was closer to what Gary Gygax was envisioning. But the result is that you've essentially got two entirely different genres that are both called 'RPGs' because of the same origin point. ...hell, debatably three if you fold in 'strategic RPGs' like Fire Emblem, which are another different fork from how people played the early tabletop games.

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Originally Posted by sorawild34

D&D is entirely personalized where you make your own character from the ground up and have complete control of what they say and do. This is pretty much impossible to replicate in video game form outside of RP'ing with other people in MMOs. Western RPG's often give you at least a few different personality types you can choose from which are usually Paragon, Funny man, worlds most boring human, or a complete asshat. Japanese RPG's there is no self insertion at all, you are playing through the games story as you would be reading a manga or watching a series.

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Not even D&D is designed for "evil" PCs though. That is perhaps the one possibility that is nearly all but excluded. The supplemental material book Book of Vile Darkness even states as much in it's foreword.

Not that it makes such impossible, but the lack of support for such a thing via core books muddies the waters a bit. Mayhaps they had the same idea as FFXIV, that most wouldn't enjoy RPing a bunch of evil bastards. I'd argue they were wrong, but that's just me. Being what you can't in reality is a big draw for video games, and being evil or sinful is like one the great temptations. The easiest place to be such with no consequences is, as expected, in a video game.