Samurai's new FUKO skill is problematic, and here's why.

Overview
So at level 86, the conal AOE Fuga upgrades from having 90 potency damage and generating 50 kenki gauge, to 100 potency (+10/+11.1%) damage and 100 kenki (+50/+100%). But that's not the only alteration, the classic conal AOE has transformed into a circular AOE; this has the exact same range as other 'common' circular AOEs with FFXIV jobs such as Mythril Tempest / Unleash / Art of War / Spinning Scythe / Fated Circle (and so on), similarly, Fuga's conal AOE shares the exact telegraph as other conal AOEs such as Overpower (excluding ranged physical jobs).

Some prefer circular AOEs, some prefer conal AOEs, and many prefer each of them in specific situations only where the type may be suited for the occasion. Though it's common knowledge by now to know the benefits and disadvantages of each type of AOE; here's a short recap:


Conal AOE

Advantages:

• Range is about 37.5% further in reach than circular AOE (5 yalms vs 8 yalms).
• At the end of its range, the width of the attack widens (hence the conal shape).
• If positioned well, it can hit multiple enemies at the end of its range from ranged distance, which may particularly be useful for dungeon mobs or fates.

Disadvantages:

• It's conal, so unlike circular AOEs you're not attacking at your flank and rear areas.
• Positioning really matters for how the cone is angled, and this can be difficult to plan sometimes e.g. if a target is not in line with to fit the full conal telegraph.

Circular AOE:

Advantages:

• The attack covers all areas around the player including the front, flanks and rear.
• Can be much easier to position in between enemies to hit them all without overthinking it.

Disadvantages:

• The range is not as distant as conal AOEs, which can sometimes make it difficult for reaching all enemies (especially large dispersed ones).

Below is a rough in-game dummy range test and diagram illustrating the range needed to be able to hit the dummies on the left with each AOE type on the left, and a rough reach difference between circular and conal AOEs from the same origin point of attack:
https://i.imgur.com/xu9yEb5.png

In general, there aren't many conal AOE attacks for most jobs besides perhaps Samurai and Warrior. Machinist and Bard do have conal AOEs but they're not comparable in this situation since the range is much higher (given that they're ranged physical jobs of course it is 12 yalms which is a +50% increase to the melee conal AOE).

It could be said that given the amount of circular AOEs there are belonging to most jobs, it could probably be acceptable if the developers decided to one-day standardise all the conal AOEs into just circular versions for consistency sake, (despite the fact that it would definitely upset some players that had gotten used to or enjoyed conal AOEs), but this is perhaps another specification in the topic to be discussed separately. I'd like to just discuss why I think in this particular situation it was a bad idea to change Samurai's Fuga conal telegraph into Fuko's circular telegraph, and there are really just two major points:

1. Lack of consistency across synced/unsynced.
Although many players will aim to optimally play or raid with their Samurais at level 90 content, majority of the content is synced below 90, which means below level 86 Fuko will revert back to Fuga, thus reverting from circular AOE back to conal AOE. Not everyone will find this transition to be an issue between synced and relevant content, but without a doubt many players may or will mistakenly either assume the AOE opener will reach further enemies as a conal telemetry when in fact it would be a circular AOE that would've hit barely anything, or they would assume their circular AOE will hit all the targets they're standing in between only to realise pitifully and prompty after that it's a cone again and it only hit one enemy (or two if lucky).

If the change had been permanent that might've added some consistency, but unfortunately that's not the case.

2. Clunky movement transition through the AOE rotation.
Before Fuko is unlocked - with Fuga; the conal AOE, the AOE rotation (for 2+ targets) flows like this (barring meikyo, kaiten or tsubame usage):

https://i.imgur.com/YbQ8eok.png
(From a distance) Fuga > (move in) Oka > (move back) Fuga > (move in) Mangetsu > (move back) Tenka Goken > (stay) Fuga

I'd like to focus on the final part of the rotation. Here you can notice that after Tenka Goken (cast), you have no movement requirement, you can simply continue onto your next Fuga which is also a conal AOE, meaning that when you set off your Tenka Goken you were most likely standing at the correct angle to aim your next Fuga, and with there being a cast (which would immobilise you from moving until the cast had finished) it makes the transition simple and easy since no movement after the cast is required.

Now here's the level 86+ AOE rotation:

https://i.imgur.com/VZEU1dn.png
(Between enemies) Fuko > (stay) Oka > (stay) Fuko > (stay) Mangetsu > (move back) Tenka Goken) > (move in again) Fuko.

Again, Tenka-goken is a cast, so (unless you're using tsubame which is only available every 1 minute (besides during the opener or re-opener)) you're not able to move back and forth between conal and circular AOE ranges to accomodate for the placement of the AOE as easily. Because Tenka Goken is a cast, you can't easily move forward again from conal AOE distance into the enemy group to resume your circular AOE combos unless you perfectly slidecast or have a tsubame in store without delaying the next Fuko GCD to get the best reach. Keep note that even with a slidecast, the slidecast window isn't very large and looking back at the diagram above comparing conal and circular AOE range and distance, the distance to travel will most likely be quite huge, huge enough to cause GCD delay.

There are definitely strong benefits to having Fuko such as the fact that for most part of the rotation preceding Tenka-goken there is barely any movement transition involved since Fuko and the combo GCDs (Oka and Mangetsu) are all circular AOEs, but moving between conal and circular AOE positioning with Fuga (even if it involves more movement compared to Fuko), these GCDs are not casts so there is enough time to move between positions for the next GCD, but the same unfortunately may not be said for the transition between Tenka Goken and Fuko, which provides a huge risk of GCD delay - a concept most players are encouraged to avoid to perform well in this game.

To finalise, many players may enjoy the changes Fuko brings to the AOE rotation, and some of course feel strongly opposed. Fuko definitely brings more damage over time due to the increase in kenki gain and the small potency increase, and some may regard that as the justification for all that went wrong with the telegraph change, but the inconsistency with syncing and the GCD delay risk may make it feel like it was one of the lesser useful or overlooked developer decisions made over job changes for this expansion. Also, considering the fact that this is one of the only abilities in the game that had its telegraph altered upon leveling up, I for one definitely disagree with this change, and do hope that the developers realise this and consider making some sort of alterations (although that is definitely a longshot).

Thank you for reading. This was written during the early days of Endwalker in patch 6.01.

Not gonna lie I thought this was going to be a troll about how offensive Fuko is.
Now I can't stop imagining a generic clickbait Youtube thumbnail with the title lol.

Are you okay? I never laughed so hard at a post like this. I hope that is a high effort bait lmao

The only thing Samurai needs are buffs. The aoe rotation has never been better and more satisfying to play.

Samurai is Godlike in AOE now and doesn't need any changes

I think the only thing that needs to change about it's AoE is that Tenka Goken should be circular AoE instead of a Cone AoE. But I just prefer Circular AoE cause if you are in the middle of the pack you don't need the range of the Cone... provided you don't have to run out of enemy AoEs lol.

In all seriousness I think AoE of a job should always be the same. If one AoE is a cone then all of that jobs AoE should be a Cone as well. If it's Circle it should all be a circle. SAM has a lot of differing AoEs. Line, Cone, Circle, meaning you are constantly trying to move into a better position to use one or the other so you hit as many mobs as possible and it's just kind of annoying. Tho I guess others find it fun so to each their own.

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Originally Posted by Noctisnine

The only thing Samurai needs are buffs. The aoe rotation has never been better and more satisfying to play.

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SAM has the top rDPS parse in the game at present. In a week or so it may fall back to second place --and yes, it deserves to stay above MNK and RPR, each of whom have further non-rDPS utility-- but it's by no means in a bad spot. Its AoE is also very strong already.

But that is beside the point of this thread, which is quite simple: conal AoEs have certain advantages over radials and it's clunky to require movement in a Iaijutsu GCD. Previously Fuga, likewise a conal AoE could follow Tenka as not to have that issue, but now that Fuga's been replaced by Fuko, a radial AoE, one must move from the edge to the center of the mob cast in what remains of one's GCD after the Iaijutsu cast, which is frequently not quite enough time in large packs.

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Originally Posted by Brownondorf

Samurai is Godlike in AOE now and doesn't need any changes

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Clunkiness is a separate issue from performance. Shocking, I know.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I think the only thing that needs to change about it's AoE is that Tenka Goken should be circular AoE instead of a Cone AoE. But I just prefer Circular AoE cause if you are in the middle of the pack you don't need the range of the Cone... provided you don't have to run out of enemy AoEs lol.

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But, you do need to do exactly that, and with decent frequency. If the issue is that you hate targeting enemies for your AoEs, then that is a separate issue, but having, say, an 8-yalm radius on a conal AoE rather than an 8-yalm diameter on a circular AoE is hugely helpful for reach against moving targets or when having to dodge or pre-position.

You forgot the best part about the conal aoe. It looks like Windscar from Inuyasha.

"Please fix me having to move for one skill in my dungeon pulls"

Meanwhile other jobs also have to do exactly the same. Enlightenment is a line AOE, and for years monk's rockbreaker was conal (in addition to arm of the destroyer and elixir field being circular, and howling fist being linear) And while dragoon's kit is mostly linear, stardiver and dragonfire dive are linear and take the monk to the enemy targeted making them have to move to get back where they need to be for linear skills.

Another advantage radial AoEs have over conal is the lack of necessity for a target. In a jumbled mass of enemies, tabbing to the right enemy to maximize the usefulness of the conal can be difficult, especially if enemies keep dying and you need to keep re-targeting and adjusting your position. With a radial AoE, one just plants as close to the middle as they can and blasts away.

In this way, I was surprised that Tenka Goken wasn't likewise upgraded to be radial as well as Fuko, so I guess my brain kind of ran the opposite direction that yours did here.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Another advantage radial AoEs have over conal is the lack of necessity for a target.

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Technically, that's just a matter of not having any targetless conal AoEs as of yet. It's an advantage of a targetless AoE, which thus far all happen to be self-radial, over a targeted AoE, which can be of any shape (from-target radial, at-target conal, or at-target linear).

I would love to see the ability, such as just via Character Config, to not require targets for all but from-target radial AoEs, ideally with a command line one could use to toggle that setting. But, if given the choice between a targeted skill and a targetless skill with half its range, I'll take the slight annoyance of targeting.

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Originally Posted by Noctisnine

The only thing Samurai needs are buffs. The aoe rotation has never been better and more satisfying to play.

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FR, mechanically, SAM is leagues better than it was in SHB. The only problem I see is that SAMs damage is subpar compared to other melee jobs that do as much if not higher dmg AND have group utility, basically making SAM an irrelevant job.

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Originally Posted by Xtro99

FR, mechanically, SAM is leagues better than it was in SHB. The only problem I see is that SAMs damage is subpar compared to other melee jobs that do as much if not higher dmg AND have group utility, basically making SAM an irrelevant job.

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SAM literally has the highest rDPS Ex1 parse in the game right now. There's just a huge difference between the best SAM player and those behind them at the moment. If Bagel were to give the Ex2 another parsed go with a good group (the current leads have no one under a 97th percentile, and only one person under 99th, instead of multiple below 30th), you'd likely see SAM neck and neck with or surpassing the current lead, a Monk.

Ideally, SAM should slightly surpass Monk, as the latter has Mantra (Brotherhood is already accounted for in rDPS; SAM already has a ~4% lead over RPR and ~6% lead over MNK for aDPS), but SAM is far from having been made "irrelevant"; its rDPS, even down at the 80th percentile, is barely over half a percent from Monk's, which is smaller than the typical difference between any two runs by the same player on the same job in the same party.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

"Please fix me having to move for one skill in my dungeon pulls"

Meanwhile other jobs also have to do exactly the same. Enlightenment is a line AOE, and for years monk's rockbreaker was conal (in addition to arm of the destroyer and elixir field being circular, and howling fist being linear) And while dragoon's kit is mostly linear, stardiver and dragonfire dive are linear and take the monk to the enemy targeted making them have to move to get back where they need to be for linear skills.

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Hi, the main point of the post is that Tenka Goken is a cast, and I have boldened that in the post as well many times. Casting and moving is a little different to moving while using instant GCDs, it's less feasible due to the fact that it's a technical restraint rather than the player's skill in moving to align AOEs.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Another advantage radial AoEs have over conal is the lack of necessity for a target. In a jumbled mass of enemies, tabbing to the right enemy to maximize the usefulness of the conal can be difficult, especially if enemies keep dying and you need to keep re-targeting and adjusting your position. With a radial AoE, one just plants as close to the middle as they can and blasts away.

In this way, I was surprised that Tenka Goken wasn't likewise upgraded to be radial as well as Fuko, so I guess my brain kind of ran the opposite direction that yours did here.

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That's a very good point and another great pro to having circular AOEs!

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Technically, that's just a matter of not having any targetless conal AoEs as of yet. It's an advantage of a targetless AoE, which thus far all happen to be self-radial,

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Blue Mage has a lot of targetless cones and they are supremely annoying to use because I expect my character to face target before performing a cone attack because why would I want to cone the empty space to the side of the group after I've adjusted my position so that I can hit the whole group with my cone.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

SAM literally has the highest rDPS Ex1 parse in the game right now. There's just a huge difference between the best SAM player and those behind them at the moment. If Bagel were to give the Ex2 another parsed go with a good group (the current leads have no one under a 97th percentile, and only one person under 99th, instead of multiple below 30th), you'd likely see SAM neck and neck with or surpassing the current lead, a Monk.

Ideally, SAM should slightly surpass Monk, as the latter has Mantra (Brotherhood is already accounted for in rDPS; SAM already has a ~4% lead over RPR and ~6% lead over MNK for aDPS), but SAM is far from having been made "irrelevant"; its rDPS, even down at the 80th percentile, is barely over half a percent from Monk's, which is smaller than the typical difference between any two runs by the same player on the same job in the same party.

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That seems surprising considering Reaper and Monk were destroying everyone else in the two Ex Trials. And FFLogs is showing Reaper at the top followed by several monks. There are 9 Sam's on the chart and the first one is at 43 for rdps.

Did you mean aDPS?

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

That seems surprising considering Reaper and Monk were destroying everyone else in the two Ex Trials. And FFLogs is showing Reaper at the top followed by several monks. There are 9 Sam's on the chart and the first one is at 43 for rdps.

Did you mean aDPS?

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No, I meant rDPS. At the time of posting, Bacon, on SAM, had the top Zodiark parse. He's since been pushed off the top 10, but there are 3 more SAM parses atop his old parse. SAM's by no means out of the running.

At time of writing this post, SAM has the highest DPS and aDPS parses still, yes, but also the 2nd highest rDPS parse, only 60 rDPS below the top place (which is in turn 88 over the next-best MNK parse and 98 over the best RPR parse).

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Originally Posted by wereotter

"Please fix me having to move for one skill in my dungeon pulls"

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How the...?

You move twice as often with Fuga as with Fuko. You just move after cast-less weaponskills (Mangetsu and Oka) instead of after Tenka. Fuga had more movement, more interaction, but less clunk.

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And while dragoon's kit is mostly linear, stardiver and dragonfire dive are linear and take the monk to the enemy targeted

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I take it this is supposed to read [1] radial and [2] Dragoon?

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Originally Posted by StarryEspresso

To finalise, many players may enjoy the changes Fuko brings to the AOE rotation, and some of course feel strongly opposed. / I for one definitely disagree with this change, and do hope that the developers realise this and consider making some sort of alterations (although that is definitely a longshot).

Thank you for reading. This was written during the early days of Endwalker in patch 6.01.

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This was a very very interesting post, and well presented. I am pleasantly surprised to find this post.

While it might look questionable now, I would have been totally fine if Fuga was updated with Fuko kenki generation and potency if I were able to cast it without targeting anything over the current Circular Fuko. Then again I never had issue with the original Fuga. Maybe targeting things is easier with Keyboard Mouse or just it differs from player to player I have no idea, I never had any trouble with the original Fuga I genuinely loved that skill.

However... now in 6.1 we have Tenka Goken changed from Cone to Circular... similar to Fuga to Fuko and with Tenka Goken yeah now I am really just not liking Samurai AoE at all. And it is technically for the same reasons that you posted, just on a different skill and everything except Ogi Namikiri is turned Circular... I just don't like it, kicking the fun out of the interactions where it goes from almost dynamic positioning to get the most out of your skills turned into bland stale stand still. If I wanted to stand still and cast I'd play an actual caster...

Slight correction: Conals reach 60% further than circles, not 37.5%. 8 yalms / 5 yalms = 160%.

Excellent post, though, and really good point about repositioning after a casted skill versus an instant skill which I never even considered. It's a shame SE took the exactly wrong lesson from it and made Tenka Goken a circle, too. And WAR's Overpower too.

Seeing the chart of old SAM aoe movement versus 6.0 SAM movement is so depressing. It was so well designed before, with the repositions between each instant skill and none after the casted skill. This just solidifies my belief that the developers are making changes for change's sake, and not really considering what it does to the feel of the job.

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Originally Posted by YukiB

It's a shame SE took the exactly wrong lesson from it and made Tenka Goken a circle, too.

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I've posted this elsewhere, but it's relevant and extremely visual, so, samurai AOE rotations:

6.0 pre-Fuko: ▲O▲O[Kaiten]▲

6.0 post-Fuko: OOOO[Kaiten]▲

6.1: OOOOO

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Originally Posted by cjbeagle

I've posted this elsewhere, but it's relevant and extremely visual, so, samurai AOE rotations:

6.0 pre-Fuko: ▲O▲O[Kaiten]▲

6.0 post-Fuko: OOOO[Kaiten]▲

6.1: OOOOO

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It's like SAM mains collectively moaning in agony.