Ninja needs Help.

The Ninja job needs some serious help right now, it has just way too many abilities.
Does any of the Devs actually play this job on a PC , if so, please tell me how the heck you bind all those abilities to hotkeys.

Please make the following changes to help with the button bloat and less clunky playing experience:

Phantom-Kamaitachi:
Replaces Hotkey of Bunshin after Bunshin is used.


Forked Raiju>Fleeting Raiju:
Replaces Hotkey of Ninjutsu after Raiton is used.

Phantom Kamatachi, yes.

However Forked Raiju I'm not sure really works. It's not hard to use Raiton while still having another ninjutsu charge or Kassatsu off cooldown, in which case you'd be locked out of executing another ninjutsu until you use Forked Raiju.

hmmm maybe the way it works is a little different than i first thought, let me reframe it.

ofc you can still use Ninjutsu after Mudras, but when you got Forked Raiju, Ninjutsu (which is otherwise disabled) turns into Forked Raiju, forked Raiju also stacks so it doesn't need to be used right after Raiton, was it different before? i swear i couldn't use Forked Raiju anymore if i didnt use it right after Raiton.

I thought it was gonna be '' NIN dps is too low '' and I was gonna agree.
But it's just yet another '' too hard/ too many buttons '' thread?

They removed buttons that were replaced in EW you're not actually pressing more buttons.

I don't find it hard to keybind NIN at all, and it doesn't feel bloated to me.
It almost feels as if anything above 4-5 buttons people will call bloat...

https://i.ibb.co/Jx8W4Td/111111111111.jpg

you got 36 hotkeys, and don't call that a bloat? i guess your keyboard has 100+ buttons so there is some room left for more.

i use ~26 in total and any more it just feels uncomfortable to play with, i am not talking about reducing it down to 5 or 6 lol, just combine a few skills where it makes sense.

I don't know... Same as Kolsykol, i mean i don't have any issue with NIN button and yes i'm lvl90, my only issue with NIN is DPS, it is again back to old nin High skill ceiling which is good but low dps which make the job difficult for absolutely nothing.

But i totally agree on PK.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

you got 36 hotkeys, and don't call that a bloat? i guess your keyboard has 100+ buttons so there is some room left for more.

i use ~26 in total and any more it just feels uncomfortable to play with, i am not talking about reducing it down to 5 or 6 lol, just combine a few skills where it makes sense.

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Not really, most of those are rarely used.
I am not using 36 keys in a battle.

If you want to complain about this then I am not sure why you're targeting NIN in particular because NIN is not actually even the most active with different button presses.
If you think of the Mudras as just one ability too which is how I approach it then it's even less.

One key can also be multiple at once, R, Ctrl R, Alt R, Shift R, 1 2 3 + those buttons too etc.

I count 16 buttons for single target if I think of Mudras as one 18 as separate.
And many of those are not frequently pressed.
Some are also the same buttons with just Ctrl added.

Nah, NIN's button count is fine. I definitely couldn't fit anything else in there, but what is in there all fits nicely.

Now, the DPS, on the other hand... wow, that's awful. Not even Trick Attack can save that trash.

Please don't force Raiju on Ninjutsu, the only thing keeping it from being more garbage is the fact we can delay it with mudras. Having the separate button is a boon in this case just to avoid fat-finger situations as well as programming conflicts. At the moment Raijus need changes to let us use them WHEN we want to. We'd currently be better off not having the skill at all if we're going for the effort of removing a button.

I agree on Bunshin and PK. For me this is much easier to bind than expected. There are 26 actions in the entire kit, plus six role actions. You can easily fit the job actions in two hotbars, leaving Hurajin and Shade Shift off with the role actions.

Here's my setup, with none of the fluff I use for job swapping or emotes, since that's bound to that single macro in the top right of the kit.

https://i.imgur.com/BPu11iD.png

It's a lot easier to manage than you'd expect, as long as you're willing to throw out the default keyboard setup and do what feels natural to you. In my case, I use 1-6 to z-n for my default hotbar keys (left half of hotbar), with alt as my only modifier key (the right half), and I use shift for stuff like duty actions and pet hotbars. How do I move, then? I use my mouse. Legacy movement. It has two binds, one for turning around, the other for auto run.

In a pinch I can use the Numpad to adjust things, since that's closer to where I use my mouse, and that setup mirrors the WASD setup with a mix of camera buttons that are useful with Legacy movement. I've used that frequently when I still had a wireless one. I've been using that as the basis for my control scheme in multiple games for 20 years now. WASD is really good when you don't have too many buttons. In MMOs like XIV it's objectively harder compared to a setup like mine (though to my knowledge RTS games use a similar setup for issuing commands to units).

Imo, do what suits you, but if you think NIN's hard, I'd maybe try binding some of the healers to see if that's worse for ya, and asking if it's your controls that are the problem. Cause it is possible to use a keyboard setup that can handle way more skills than XIV has. My personal setup here could handle a 96 button game if I wanted it to before dipping into multiple modifier keys (2+ of Shift/Ctrl/Alt). I don't think that'll ever happen here, but I allow for that kind of nonsense since classic MMOs had a habit of using more hotbar space than XIV does. I think that's probably your issue, and the only job that would work if you're concerned about minimizing the bloat would be SMN, which has the least number of buttons in the game currently.

This forum definitely needed another NIN whine thread.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Phantom-Kamaitachi:
Replaces Hotkey of Bunshin after Bunshin is used.

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Yes, please.

Abilities like that, that are dependand of each other should be combined to one button.
With 6.0 SE actually did just that with SCHs "Summon Seraph" and "Consolation" and that plays very nicely now. Same should also be applied to Monks Perfect Balance and Masterful Blitz...

For me as a Controller Player the button bloat can be more apparent. While I hardly have any issues with that for most jobs, the problem for me with NIN comes from the fast gameplay and weaving skills. Having to quickly go back and forth from the double tap Hotbars can actually be painful over a long period of time.
Combining Bunshin and Phantom-Kamaitachi would already be an immense help.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Please don't force Raiju on Ninjutsu, the only thing keeping it from being more garbage is the fact we can delay it with mudras. Having the separate button is a boon in this case just to avoid fat-finger situations as well as programming conflicts.

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Of course you would still be able to perform other Mudras and their Ninjutsu. Raiju would just replace Ninjutsu while no other Mudras are cast.

Other than that I can't say much about Raiju as I'm not quite there yet. But I do see where Arohk is coming from. As Ninjutsu would just sit there using up space most of the time.

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Originally Posted by miqou

Yes, please.

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They did the same for Gunbreaker, it used up 3 keybinds for its combo chain, but now only needs one. Same for paladin on 90, imagine if that would require 3 Seperate hotkeys for each attack after confiteor.
Solving the problem of where to put all the skills on your hotbar shouldn't be a thing that makes the game more difficult, i am not playing a piano after all.
All skills that depend on another skill to be used should just replace each other for a smoother playing experience, scholar is a good example, Energy Drain should go into Aether Flow after its used.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

They did the same for Gunbreaker, it used up 3 keybinds for its combo chain, but now only needs one. Same for paladin on 90, imagine if that would require 3 Seperate hotkeys for each attack after confiteor.
Solving the problem of where to put all the skills on your hotbar shouldn't be a thing that makes the game more difficult, i am not playing a piano after all.
All skills that depend on another skill to be used should just replace each other for a smoother playing experience, scholar is a good example, Energy Drain should go into Aether Flow after its used.

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The difference is that the Gnashing Fang combo is one ability while Bunshin and Phantom-Kamaitachi aren't.
Both from a technical and just gameplay pov I don't think it's the same at all.

Look for the ffxiv combo plugin on google. Lets you combine all kinds of keys, including bunshin kamatachi.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

Look for the ffxiv combo plugin on google. Lets you combine all kinds of keys, including bunshin kamatachi.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/65zUoO...KokQ/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

This forum definitely needed another NIN whine thread.

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Compared to what? A "Square this class is perfect don't change anything!" post? That's useless crap on a forums dedicated to discussing classes. If ninja has 100+ threads on it's problems, that just means it has a LOT of problems.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

https://media.giphy.com/media/65zUoO...KokQ/giphy.gif

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Stop being such a gate keeper all the time. Why is it that you are in every Ninja related thread, trying to quell fellow players concern, based on your anecdotes.
Most Ninja players dont like the changes since they alter the class playstyle too drastically with the introduced inflexibility.
You can get used to driving a car with broken steering. Doesnt mean you should want to.

Oh wow great, now both Raiju need an extra button, this going all the wrong direction.
I dont think i want to play ninja anymore now, its just too bloated.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Oh wow great, now both Raiju need an extra button, this going all the wrong direction.
I dont think i want to play ninja anymore now, its just too bloated.

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I mean you got one free with the Bunshin change.

I don't like the change personally but what you're saying here is a non-issue.

Yeah, breaking up the Raiju combo and button switch is all wrong.

wrong thread.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

Stop being such a gate keeper all the time. Why is it that you are in every Ninja related thread, trying to quell fellow players concern, based on your anecdotes.
Most Ninja players dont like the changes since they alter the class playstyle too drastically with the introduced inflexibility.
You can get used to driving a car with broken steering. Doesnt mean you should want to.

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Who are "most ninja players" you referring to? Cause Ive been using NIN for this raid tier and its pretty jawesome. The break from gap closers was especially based since you gotta be at max melee on P2S which is where im progging at right now. Also some people cant even plainly drive a car that is working perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

Who are "most ninja players" you referring to? Cause Ive been using NIN for this raid tier and its pretty jawesome. The break from gap closers was especially based since you gotta be at max melee on P2S which is where im progging at right now. Also some people cant even plainly drive a car that is working perfectly fine.

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Maybe he meant that in the past tense because ninja is the least played job by far, if that's not an indicative of an issue then I don't want to see what a real issue looks like.

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

Who are "most ninja players" you referring to? Cause Ive been using NIN for this raid tier and its pretty jawesome. The break from gap closers was especially based since you gotta be at max melee on P2S which is where im progging at right now. Also some people cant even plainly drive a car that is working perfectly fine.

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As in the majority of people voicing their opinions on these forums, in the balance discord, on reddit on youtube etc.

This raid tier began without forced gapclosers ( unless youre talking normal modes? ).

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Maybe he meant that in the past tense because ninja is the least played job by far, if that's not an indicative of an issue then I don't want to see what a real issue looks like.

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Ninja has always been one of the least played jobs and that’s mainly because it used to be very ping dependent and it also took on the identity of being a complex and difficult class to play even though that’s not exactly the case now imo. From everything I’ve read and everyone I’ve talked to most people are happy with the changes but also acknowledge more work needs to be done. The devs will most definitely tweak it some more in the upcoming patches but for now it’s a step in the right direction for the majority of players. Of course some won’t like it, and some people will never be happy no matter what, but as long as things keep improving then I’m sticking with Ninja, my favorite class.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

As in the majority of people voicing their opinions on these forums, in the balance discord, on reddit on youtube etc.

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Of course, a majority of such players is a self-selecting minority of all players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVK8nObJe-Y

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Originally Posted by Quyn

As in the majority of people voicing their opinions on these forums, in the balance discord, on reddit on youtube etc.

This raid tier began without forced gapclosers ( unless youre talking normal modes? ).

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CHeck out this link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

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Originally Posted by Cyrexs

Ninja has always been one of the least played jobs and that’s mainly because it used to be very ping dependent and it also took on the identity of being a complex and difficult class to play even though that’s not exactly the case now imo. From everything I’ve read and everyone I’ve talked to most people are happy with the changes but also acknowledge more work needs to be done. The devs will most definitely tweak it some more in the upcoming patches but for now it’s a step in the right direction for the majority of players. Of course some won’t like it, and some people will never be happy no matter what, but as long as things keep improving then I’m sticking with Ninja, my favorite class.

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I also think it's because they don't share gear with anyone ( only one who doesn't now ).

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Originally Posted by AC9Breaker

CHeck out this link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

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If you agreed with them I doubt you'd be calling it an echo chamber.
Just because a large group of people agree with each other doesn't mean it's an echo chamber.
Echo chambers generally involve bullying or even straight up banning and throwing people out for disagreements.
Websites like Resetera are echo chambers because the mods and a section of their community with the support of the mods harass and ban everyone who says anything even remotely not in line with their views or simply because they feel like it.
That's an echo chamber, even most people on the site would agree with that and actively try and avoid discussions that causes it to happen ( yes even most people on the site know how shit it is but still use it ).
Most people agreeing across platforms about a Job in FFXIV isn't an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I also think it's because they don't share gear with anyone ( only one who doesn't now ).



If you agreed with them I doubt you'd be calling it an echo chamber.
Just because a large group of people agree with each other doesn't mean it's an echo chamber.
Echo chambers generally involve bullying or even straight up banning and throwing people out for disagreements.
Websites like Resetera are echo chambers because the mods and a section of their community with the support of the mods harass and ban everyone who says anything even remotely not in line with their views or simply because they feel like it.
That's an echo chamber, even most people on the site would agree with that and actively try and avoid discussions that causes it to happen ( yes even most people on the site know how shit it is but still use it ).
Most people agreeing across platforms about a Job in FFXIV isn't an echo chamber.

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If I agreed with them it'll still be an echo chamber because that's what Message boards are. Generally message boards are outdated methods of social media that are mostly engaged by specific kinds of people. Same with discords, hell even large social media platforms like twitter are echo chambers themselves. The developers know this to be true which why they tend to use a lot of hard raw data and metrics collected from in game like clear rates of classes in savage and etc to see how the players actually feel about things.

If you think the opinions you see on these boards or whatever are indicative of everyone then yikes. Maybe you're suggesting that only the opinions of people on these boards and discords you hold in high regard are the only ones that matter. Bigger yikes.