I am loving the New Summoner alot! It's the best it has ever been! I thank the development team for making my dream Summoner. :D
Having said that, there are somethings I wish could get adjusted.
Small MP reduction
Searing Light used outside of combat
Ifrit Skills buffed across the board
But overall Summoner feels great! And I look forward to what we will get in 7.0!
Thank you~
Summoner Quality Of Life
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12-23-2021, 01:59 AMSuper_SmileySummoner Quality Of Life
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12-23-2021, 02:17 AMRolder50
I would like to add; it'd be nice if Titan and Ifrit's entrance attacks were a bit more... subdued. Titan's in particular makes it super hard to see anything.
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12-23-2021, 02:20 AMRisvertasashiI also wish searing light could be used out of combat. I have to open with 2 ruin 3s because that's how long the game takes to register "You're in combat" and let me use searing light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Smiley
You can already tone this down in battle effect settings. Personally, I think the "full" effect should remain in its current glorious incarnation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolder50
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12-23-2021, 02:22 AMRolder50I mean sure, but you also lose all your OTHER spell effects if you do that. Can't limit just one (legally, anyway)Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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12-23-2021, 02:28 AMRisvertasashi
Well, then maybe if /petsize also toned down their vfx..?
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12-23-2021, 02:30 AMHarukiHikariOr... you can also use /petsize all smallQuote:
Originally Posted by Rolder50
Sure it's not as cool seeing smaller summons but that will still let you see everything going on :D
Either that, or choose which ones you want to be smaller
>>Egi Name:
Demi-Bahamut
Demi-Phoenix
Ruby Ifrit
Topaz Titan
Emerald Garuda
all -
12-23-2021, 02:33 AMRolder50I specifically mean the visual effect of the attack the summon does when they enter the field. Titan's in particular is very bright and makes it hard to see anything when it's happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarukiHikari
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12-23-2021, 04:56 AMTiresias
Honestly, asking the visual "noise" to be tuned down isn't a big ask. Just remove the big glowy circle for Titan! The rest of the effect is fine.
Also, could Physick be made useful again? I miss the identity of Summoner being a bit of a hybrid class. There was a point where Summoners could off-tank, off-heal and Raise; I originally picked up the class because I enjoy hybrid DPS classes. Right now the only class that is really like that is RDM, which I also enjoy, but it would be great to have SMN be able to fill a similar role, especially since it already has access to Raise. As it stands right now, there's no reason to have Physick on my hotbar, which is a little sad. -
12-23-2021, 05:41 AMReimmi
New summoner base is great, but it needs more buttons to press, sadly wont come til 7.0, but at least it has a solid foundation to build upon.
Been enjoying it as an alt but dont think i could main it with how easy it is atm -
12-23-2021, 07:19 AMDES_VII
I'm loving it to, but it NEEDS Potency buffs bad. Just some minor ones would help.
People complain how bored they are with it, then don't play it. I love it, I don't want super 20 button rotation. Sure you could add a ability but even if it had 2 more buttons to press people would still complain. The re-work was because of all the complaints, well you got the re-work. -
12-23-2021, 07:22 AMDES_VIIPSA. TO ALL players, not summoners job, it's client side. Here's the command.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolder50
/petsize all small
/petsize all medium
/petsize all large -
12-23-2021, 10:16 AMwereotterIt's not just the size of Titan. I've been playing a lot on summoner and have them set to small. In general I like to see my own attack effects, but Titan and Ifrit in particular have attacks on summoning that are very bright. It's actually made it difficult at times to do things like discern if the EX trial for weapons is using green, blue, or red stance attacks and position correctly. Yes, you can plan your summon around that, but I do think it's a bit much if you have to plan your rotation just so you can see fight mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by DES_VII
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12-23-2021, 12:36 PMRaikai
My biggest QoL wish for SMN:
Make the base carbuncle just a cosmetic spell.
Reasons:
- It literally doesn't do anything in combat. He actually doesn't even face the direction you're aiming your spells lol... He just stares at you like that cat begging for food while you're cooking. I'd also rather not have it with me in combat as his animation popping in and out (when you summon other stuff) is a bit distracting.
- Makes Radiant Aegis (the shield) unreliable as sin when you realize you can't use it during a key moment of a fight because there's a primal doing an attack right at that moment, or a Demi phase going on.
- Makes Searing Light hard to use in case something happens and it drifts because of the point above.
It would be cool if SL and RA would actually be cast by using Alphinaud's old Diamond and Obsidian carbuncles as their cast animations. -
12-23-2021, 12:51 PMzcrash970Hoping for a lot there. People said the same thing about MCH and DRK and well they got next to nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimmi
Hell the one ability that dark knight needed the attack stacks on didn't get it. Blood weapon is still a hard duration with it's aoes being spells unaffected by skill speed -
12-23-2021, 01:26 PMRolder50There are some, ahem, third party tools you can use to remove the effects. Won't go into details here for obvious reasons, but it's possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by wereotter
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12-23-2021, 06:25 PMwereotterNo it's not, at least not for me. I play on a console.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolder50
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12-23-2021, 08:01 PMMansionDoes it? It has almost as much mobility than ranged physical DPS, but arguably these three jobs have a more "complex" rotation, at least Bard and Dancer do. Can't say for Machinist as I don't really know about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DES_VII
I have mained SMN in Stormblood and Shadowbringers, I just finished leveling it yesterday and I don't like it. It's my opinion, and as you say I just won't play it. But I don't think it should have better single target damage than it currently has. It used to be powerful (maybe overpowered sometimes I will agree) and it had great mobility but still had a clunky rotation with several micro managements going on which, at least for me, justified it's great damage output and skill ceiling.
Currently, there isn't any reason for SMN to be able to do great damage, virtually be as mobile as a ranged phys, have a raise and buff the party, while keeping a very simple rotation of "press these 3 buttons that light up".
A minor DPS buff is fine. But I don't think it should rival with other jobs that have more complexity to them. They should either increase the skill ceiling, or give it more support options. As of today, I think the job goes a bit everywhere with no real consistency, which is a lot to say about SMN when it had that very same problem on another level with its multi-gimmicks flow before (Aetherstacks, DoTs, Pet management, Trance management, ghosting issues, mobility planning). -
12-23-2021, 11:00 PMBonkleberrySmall MP reduction? My SMN seems to have infinite MP currently, so I just do not agree with you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Smiley
Why would you use Searing Light outside of combat? If you mean for pre-pull or something, then just work Searing Light intelligently into your opener. I have been using Ruin III > Energy Drain > Ruin IV > Searing Light.
And I am completely baffled why people keep saying or suggesting the Ifrit skills are weak. Ifrit's ST attack and the two Crimson Combo attacks all have a potency of 430. Would you rather cast Ruin III or something during the Ifrit phase? -
12-23-2021, 11:37 PMSaberMaxwellAt the end of the day, summoner needs to at least be competitive with Red Mage. The devs stated that rotational complexity is not something they factor in during balance, though it's plausible that the sheer mobility smn is capable of is being factored in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansion
It's damage should be on-par with Red Mage's if not a bit better when factoring in Red Mage's access to Magick Barrier and dualcast Verraise (I'll even spare everyone the whole "remove raise from casters"/"make verraise incompatible with dualcast" shpiel). Otherwise the question "why take a smn over a rdm" gets asked and answered with "You don't," which flies against the devs' intent of keeping all jobs competitive. -
12-24-2021, 12:36 AMremiffhis attacks are at 430 potency, but the global filler is less strong than garuda and titan, he certainly has less stack, but with the cast he is just as long as the others, and yes overall ifrit is weak, but he is not the only cause of the loss of power of the summoner, the real problem is rather phoenix than ifrit which is supposed to be the big burst but which does not compete with bahamut in terms of damage, for a situational regen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkleberry
and the dps that's supposed to go up in phoenix, does the opposite and goes down. -
12-24-2021, 01:10 AMWarlyxQuote:
Originally Posted by remiff
ifrit needs something what? i dunno
phoenix feels meh ....baha is good because u get deathflare on top of ahk morn that burst is the best smn has for it :D
remove the regen and give phoenix a real flare -
12-24-2021, 01:27 AMDaraliiYoshida said in an interview around the time of the media tour that the only reason SMN still has Resurrection is that they weren't sure the job would be balanced on release. It definitely needs potency buffs if that's the end goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansion
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12-24-2021, 08:56 AMBonkleberryAre you trying to make an argument that Ifrit and Phoenix are weak because they have less attacks during their phases than other phases? I do not get your point at all--what does that have to do with quality of life? The attacks you have access to during Phoenix and Ifrit are part of your rotation and their potencies are quite high compared to some of your other attacks and even attacks that other casters get. Would you rather Ifrit has more attacks during his phase, forcing you to clip phases more often for Bahamut and Phoenix? Would you rather Phoenix lose the healing utility SMN brings to a party just so you can get one extra 500 potency attack every minute (to make it balanced with damage during Bahamut phase)?Quote:
Originally Posted by remiff
Like, I get it. SMN has lower DPS right now compared to other jobs. But SMN damage is not broken (we can complete the Earth, Sea, and Sky thing for extremes) and dealing damage is not a quality of life issue, which is the topic of this thread. -
12-24-2021, 09:12 AMCorbeau
The only QoL change I want is allowing searing light to be used out of combat. It's not a huge deal but feels clunky.
I actually like having to plan my carbuncle shield in advance, so I wouldn't want that changed. -
12-24-2021, 10:03 AMCithaerias_pyropinaIf you keep Lucid Dreaming on cooldown SMN has infinite MP. The job goes oom in around 3 minutes and 45 seconds if you don't use Lucid Dreaming. Garuda's Emerald Rite and Catastrophe are extremely costly. You only regen 200 mana per 3 seconds in combat. Garuda expends 1200 MP in 6 seconds. Takes RDM around 5 minutes and 20 seconds to go oom and that's just spamming spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkleberry
Brotherhood, Arcane Circle, Divination and Embolden are all party wide raid buffs and can be used out of combat. So why should Searing Light continue to be locked to in combat only? Edit-Unless I am wrong about the aforementioned, but nowhere on the job guide does it say they can't be used outside of combat.
Titan does 480 potency per GCD. Topaz Rite+Mountain Buster weave. Ifrit only does 430 potency per gcd, but Ruby Rite has a cast time .3 seconds longer than your gcd so you actually lose potency per second during Ifrit. Either Topaz Rite needs a 25 potency nerf and Mountain Buster a 30 potency nerf or Ifrit needs a 60 to 65 potency buff to Ruby Rite and Crimson Cyclone/Strike to warrant the slow cast time and the risk involved with his phase as he is unequivocally weaker than Titan and Titan has mobility for days. -
12-24-2021, 10:57 AMzcrash970Ifrit is a problem because it's literally the only time you are at risk during your rotation. Two long casts and a melee combo. If anything he should be the strongest out the 3 but he is the weakestQuote:
Originally Posted by Bonkleberry
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12-25-2021, 03:36 AMremiff
how the fact that ifrit is weaker than the others with a cast, and phoenix has a heal instead of a damage spell that degrades the summoner's burst is not a change in quality of life on the summoner, I do not understand, at least I relate only facts, I do not impose my point of view as you do.
if a large majority of people related to the problems on the summoner, it is because these are present, and that changing them is therefore changes in quality of life, and talking about increasing the dps on a burst on a job which is currently rather weak in single target is clearly an aid to the quality of life.
it's not just a question of cooldown, and effects to modify.
The concern of phoenix is that they have chosen to give a scholar excog instead of a deathflare equivalent spell, which makes phoenix much less interesting, and does not stabilize the burst every minute of the summoner because yes 500 less potency per minute is huge, especially since phoenix healing is too situational is unpleasant to use to be really effective outside of dungeons.
You can give a simple example, summoner level 79 is stronger than summoner 80.
Summoner is far from perfect and needs a change in 6.1. -
12-25-2021, 08:33 AMdinnertimeYes, badly. It's the 2nd worst-performing DPS in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansion
I feel like they didn't take account the damage old SMN does in the background (DoTs and pet auto attacks) with this rework. -
12-25-2021, 01:17 PMGrimoire-MActually, they kind of are, but not in the way you're thinking. It's not about the numbers being low, but about how they make the DPS rotation feel samey. Compared to prior iterations our spike dps is significantly lower, and depends mostly on Enkindle crits. I barely even notice the avatars, and with most of the effective GCD potency sitting at 410-430, and 470ish, it causes each action to have less impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonkleberry
This is compounded by the fact that the vast majority of the buttons are instant-cast and the lackluster audio, and the abhorrent delay caused by the resummon mechanic. Not only does it prevent us from doing stuff with our pet (This is why they removed Carby/Egi Autos. You wouldn't be able to ignore the gaps if you had to interact with them at all), it makes the intended highlight of the rework feel like wet air. Literally I forgot I was using Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda repeatedly while doing fights, until I saw them off to the side 3-4 seconds later. And a lot of that is due to the lackluster Demi-Spells too. As a result of these factors coalescing together, once I'm focusing on the fight, I start losing feedback from the rotation. Like, I get people saying that prior iterations sucked, but I at least can tell when I'm hardcasting Ruin III all the time and hear it go off, whereas the only time I even notice I'm pressing any of the new spells is because I picked the wrong Summon for the situation or literally stopped pressing the same button because I fell asleep from pressing it so much. It actually makes the experience worse by being so boring. I had to move to another job just because I knew it was going to be a problem (nevermind Avatars blocking your PoV in savage).
The only things the new iteration gets half right is the Avatar-related animations, and keeping pets still. Literally everything else sucks. The most actual enjoyment I get is from slapping Deathflare & Akh Morn together in a single GCD, and I was hoping to have more than three of those by now, not less.
None of those complaints touch what I liked about the prior iterations that frankly should have stayed to keep this one from falling apart, like it very, very clearly has, when you get down to the technical details. And most people won't, they'll just feel something's off or get bored, and that's how you kill a game, not just a job. -
12-26-2021, 02:19 AMMansionThere will always be low-performing DPS jobs compared to others, that's not a point in the current design. I'm repeating myself but as it stands, I don't think SMN shouldn't do much more DPS than Bard or Dancer, especially when balancing it with RDM (as BLM is a different type of job).Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
Sure difficulty might have some subjectivity to it, but I don't think SMN should hit as hard as RDM currently does when RDM isn't as mobile, and has more depth to its rotation and optimization than SMN (and RDM isn't that deep either, mind you). I don't think it'd be fair that in a Savage environment if an "easy" job would hit harder than a more complex job twhen both are played optimally. That actually was SMN's problem in 5.0, it was harder to optimize (due to clunky gameplay) and it performed poorly DPS-wise, before 5.1 addressed this issue (and it was the same early Sotrmblood too I think). I see people saying having an "easy" job outDPSing a "harder" job isn't an issue, I don't agree at all. Rewarding great DPS performance through overly-simple gameplay is a gateway to jobs getting more and more similar and easy with no flavour, identity or anything.
SMN should have tweaks in its rotation to get a higher skill ceiling that would justify a DPS buff in my opinion, which wouldn't be very complex to implement. Toning down the instant casts for Bahamut for instance. Making the SMN Primal choice according to the fight mechanics much more rewarding, introducing more micro-management (for aetherstacks and Ruin IV for instance). I see a lot of room for SMN to grow to keep it attractive and easy to understand and play casually, but offering more depth in end-game content. -
12-26-2021, 02:31 AMWhite_Wolf_XThis so much, i would love if we didn't need to have carbuncle out because right now seeing it despawn > respawn > despawn > respawn is .. gah .. little bit of a pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikai
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12-26-2021, 03:48 AMdinnertimeThat's where we disagree. I'm pretty sure the dev team has said they do not account job difficulty with balancing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansion
Mobility should not be a factor either, especially when *every* job in the game has something that gives them more mobility. Even during Shadowbringers when Ranged DPS were all at the bottom, melees were seen to have almost 100% uptime in difficult content. It's just not a fair comparison anymore.
Now, in terms of what they bring utility-wise, RDM actually gives *more* to the party. We can argue SMN gives more because of Phoenix, but right now we cannot actually use them when we actually need them. There's no reason for SMN to be lower than RDM.
Anyway, this isn't the point of this thread. -
12-26-2021, 06:10 AMCorbeau
RDM has extra raidwide mitigation and constant on-demand rezzing. It's wild to say it should have the damage advantage as well.
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12-26-2021, 06:51 AMGruntlerWhen you're a 'caster' where only 3 spells in 60 seconds has any casting time, that does actually impact balance, especially in harder content.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnertime
Not that I think the jobs are currently aligned where they should, SMN definately needs a bit more damage on Ifrit to justify the risk it forces you into, but yeah, if you're spending that little of the fight actually casting, you're practically begging to be balanced like a ranged physical. -
12-26-2021, 06:58 AMCithaerias_pyropinaWhy play SMN when RDM has more damage, more utility and isn't punished anywhere near as bad as SMN is when ressing someone. RDM also has heaps of mobility; Dual Cast, 2 stacks of Acceleration, Swift Cast, Reprise, Corp and Displacement. You only spend 5.2 seconds in melee range for the 3 weaponskills where SMN spends around the same time doing the Ifrit Astral Flow combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruntler
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12-26-2021, 07:03 AMdinnertimeI literally just said on the same post that mobility doesn't matter because melees have zero problems keeping DPS uptime. BLM has enough tools for mobility but it deserves the top spot in all the casters because it has no utility whatsoever, for RDM it's instant every 2 spells and also has zero problems keeping DPS uptime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruntler
Plus it's not new that SMN has a lot of instant casts, it's just more apparent since Shadowbringers. -
12-27-2021, 12:22 AMSuper_Smiley
I agree that maybe the animations for Titan and Ifrit could be adjusted a bit, so it isn't so bright on the ground. Would help you see mechanics better.
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12-27-2021, 09:44 AMNicodemus_Mercy
I hope we'll see Ramuh, Shiva, and Leviathan added to summoner in some fashion in 7.0. Perhaps as an upgrade to the classic Garuda, Ifrit, and Titan. And maybe we could get Odin as a 3rd "big tier" summon to go with Bahamut and Phoenix!
Like imagine if it worked like this:
Bahamut > do you thing > Garuda > do your thing > Ifrit > do your thing > Titan > do your thing > Phoenix > do your thing (Garuda/Ifrit/Titan buttons change to Ramuh/Shiva/Levathan) > Ramuh > do your thing > Shiva > do your thing > Leviathan > do your thing > Odin > do your thing (Ramuh/Shiva/Leviathan buttons change back) > Garuda > do your thing > Ifrit > do your thing > Titan > do your thing > Back to Bahamut. -
12-27-2021, 03:36 PMHagenThe lvl 90 SMN should have been like that. But rework meant that we get a lvl 70 job instead that only get cosmetic/potency changes. Except the way things are I prefer we got Odin as some big button after doing 2 demi rotations because demis are the most boring phase of the job right now. I guess they got afraid it might be "too hard" for some players to relearn that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy
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12-28-2021, 07:02 AMwereotterPhoenix definitely needs a buff. Doesn't even have to be special, can just increase the potency of scarlet flame to make up for the loss of deathflare. Adding about 35 potency to each attack (since I think it autos once per second) would be just a bit more than to come out event with Bahamut + deathflare. Right now it does feel bad that summoner gets nerfed once it hits level 80Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx