Liturgy of the Bell is underwhelming and needs some QoL changes.

As it stands, it's meant for Akh Morn mechanics like how Panhaima is used.

However, elsewhere it just feels underwhelming? I don't understand why it's on a 3 min CD when it's stacks never proc past the initial raidwide. It just feels like there's so little payoff with such a high CD.

Personally they should lower it to 2 mins and have the stacks resolve individually with half potency if the damage requirement is not meet.

Also I don't know why they changed the name from Lilybell? It sounded much better and rolled off the tongue better.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

Also I don't know why they changed the name from Lilybell? It sounded much better and rolled off the tongue better.

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Probably because it's the canon name of SCH's fairy.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Probably because it's the canon name of SCH's fairy.

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Lily is, but WHM also has Lilies as a mechanic and they probably renamed it to avoid confusion with that. Still going to call it Lilybell.

Really it needs its functionality changed. Let us place the buff on any party member, even if that means the bell has to be placed on top of them. Doing so solves a large number of problems with the skill by letting tanks proc it when they are getting hit, meaning it gains way more efficiency when used near the tail end of a burst phase, leading into those downtime moments where the tank is getting auto-attacked, and helping top up the party in the process.

Lilybell also procs to any DoT ticks on the WHM. But I'm still unsure if that will be any help.

I'm pretty sure everyone knew this ability would be lackluster the minute they said how it worked. It's all style and no substance.
Outside of its niche, it's a worse Earthly star and even in its niche, it's akin to spamming Medica just without the benefit of working with Temperance/PI.
The "wait for the raid tier" argument can shove it because if WHM's MP economy is still trash by then, we won't even see WHM in those fights to even try and make use of the damn thing anyways.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

The "wait for the raid tier" argument can shove it because if WHM's MP economy is still trash by then, we won't even see WHM in those fights to even try and make use of the damn thing anyways.

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I remember people asking for WHM MP nerfs and now WHM struggles with MP. Meanwhile AST, the better counterpart has unlimited MP uptime along with astrodyne–not even mentioning the amounts of free healing them have before they even need to touch their GCD spells.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

I remember people asking for WHM MP nerfs and now WHM struggles with MP. Meanwhile AST, the better counterpart has unlimited MP uptime along with astrodyne–not even mentioning the amounts of free healing them have before they even need to touch their GCD spells.

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WHM just needs an Overhaul at this point because it honestly feels worse than its HW iteration and that's a feat in and of itself to regress that badly.

• Rebuild and restructure the entire class from the ground up like they did for BLM; Hell, I'd argue to even take Aero and make it into WHM's version of Thunder, with Aero 1+2 (and upgrades all the way to Dia) being ST and AoE respectively.
• Return all the removed Spells WHM lost and incorporate them again as low level version of WHM's current toolkit (Fluid Aura = Assize, Protect = Aqua Veil, Stoneskin = Divine Benison, etc). Make the leveling experience tolerable because the level 50 WHM experience is awful.
• Reduce the cost and cast times of our GCD toolkit. There is absolutely 0 reason that our GCD healing toolkit costs an arm and a leg more so than the other healer's and their equivalent skills. Also, let me weave with Holy.
• Expand the Lily System to include Afflatus version of Cure 3 and Medica 2, as well as a Single Target version of Afflatus Misery (call it Afflatus Sorrow to go with the theme of EW). I honestly expected them to go this route in EW and I couldn't even get that much. Adding to that, put the SB Cleric Stance affect onto both Misery and Sorrow so that they reward you for healing rather than just be a minor refund to losing damage.
• Give WHM a way to accumulate Lilies faster. Either reduce the time it takes to generate Lilies down to 20 seconds or have Divine Benison grant a free Lily upon breaking/expiring.
• Add a Damage Reflect component to Aqua Veil. If WHM is suppose to be a Selfish Healer with a lot of damage, then give me some more damage.
• Have Lilybell place the stacks on every player and convert the AoE heal into just spot heals on the targets that get damaged instead. It accomplishes the same thing but would actually be worth a damn because if I don't get hit its still healing the people that do get hit for the full potency and instead of the unnecessary overheal at the end of it, have it convert the stacks into a shield.

Do all that and WHM would play like a dream.

I admit I'm actually unsure why this ability has so much hate in terms of healing power?

Even if you just place it when a regular raidwide is coming up, it heals 400 on hit, then another 800 (4 stacks) a few seconds after. 1200-2000 potency raid healing on one button is incredibly good. Am I actually reading something wrong here or something, why is that underwhelming?

My only problem with Lilybell is that the cooldown is far too long and one decent toy doesn't fix the class. I'd rather it was less potency but a much shorter cooldown. But as an ability by itself, it's great.

I mean I stood in an aoe to trigger the bell yesterday in a dungeon because or else it was pointless until its time ran out for the big overblown heal. It should really be proc by anyone in the party taking damage. and it should be on 2 minutes. In the trials I got a measly 3 uses out of it in one and 2 in the other.

I'd love for Lilybell to place stacks on every person like Panhaima from Sage does.
It works beautifully: you get hit, you get healed/ shielded. They probably wanted to avoid Lilybell getting triggered by autos on tank if anyone taking damage would trigger an aoe heal for everyone and that's fair but they solved this problem perfectly with Panhaima, why not with Lilybell aswell?
Because as it is, all the mechanics that only target dps for damage (and there are plenty of those), won't heal the dps until after it ran out for 1000 potency. Which is a lot but when considering it's 3min cooldown, it ends up clearly inferior to skills like Star, Recit Indom or Zoe Pneuma.

The healing potency itself is really high and that's great and all, but it's long cooldown and the way it works really limits its use. No doubt we'll see some Akh Morn like mechanics but plenty of skills are great for these types of mechanics and strong and flexible enough to be used for pretty much every other mechanic for the same or at least similiar gain.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I admit I'm actually unsure why this ability has so much hate in terms of healing power?

Even if you just place it when a regular raidwide is coming up, it heals 400 on hit, then another 800 (4 stacks) a few seconds after. 1200-2000 potency raid healing on one button is incredibly good. Am I actually reading something wrong here or something, why is that underwhelming?

My only problem with Lilybell is that the cooldown is far too long and one decent toy doesn't fix the class. I'd rather it was less potency but a much shorter cooldown. But as an ability by itself, it's great.

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Weren't you just complaining that Cure 3's 600 potency was too low, given its restrictions? Aren't the restrictions on Lilybell, both the CD and the requirement of taking damage, equally as bad and with only 400 potency per hit to show for it? If I still have to cast a GCD heal in order to survive the next mechanic while Lilybell is up, than its realistically no different from PI, used primarily as a supplement to our GCD healing toolkit rather than a stand alone skill and the backloaded healing effect isn't something we have any agency over so its unreliable to account for it; there's no guarantee that we'll need that backload for anything and while Earthly Star requires a similar level of foresight to reach its full potential, it's on 1/3 the CD and does damage on top so at minimum it's still a DPS gain whereas Lilybell doesn't have that luxury.

This skill is a 2nd crappier charge to PI and nothing else.

Can you not make Lilybell heal early like you can with Earthly Star and Macrocosmos? (Just shows Astro is superior to WHM) Or do you have to wait the full 15 seconds?

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Probably because it's the canon name of SCH's fairy.

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And they should retcon the name of the real Lily to Seraph instead. As Scholar doesn't even summon the real Lily in the first place. They summon her two alter egos and Seraph for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Weren't you just complaining that Cure 3's 600 potency was too low, given its restrictions?

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This is between double and triple Cure III's potency for free with a far wider range. Remember excess Lilybell stacks are turned into a heal (a full 1000 potency if you took 0 damage), so you either use it for Akh Morn mechanics, or plan it in advance (similar to a full potency Earthy Star) and utilize the 1200 total potency (1 hit then 4 expired stacks) to heal a raidwide.

I think WHM is an utter mess but except for the massive cooldown I'm not waving a pitchfork over this one.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

This is between double and triple Cure III's potency for free with a far wider range. Remember excess Lilybell stacks are turned into a heal (a full 1000 potency if you took 0 damage), so you either use it for Akh Morn mechanics, or plan it in advance (similar to a full potency Earthy Star) and utilize the 1200 total potency (1 hit then 4 expired stacks) to heal a raidwide.

I think WHM is an utter mess but except for the massive cooldown I'm not waving a pitchfork over this one.

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It doesn't matter that its free if the upfront potency isn't enough on its own to heal the party into a safe range that the next raid wide doesn't kill the group. If at any point I have to utilize a GCD heal while Lilybell is up because we won't survive otherwise, then it's equivalent to PI in nature as little more than a supplement to my heals rather than a replacement for them and is no longer free at that point but a cost reduction. Unless you time Lilybell to expire in time with a big hit, that backloaded potency when it expires is meaningless

It's similar to timing Earthy Star to blow after a raidwide to heal it. Let's say a single raidwide is coming up in 5-10 sec, your party is healthy and the next raidwide after that one isn't for another 10-30 sec. Extremely common scenario. Raidwides rarely hit back to back unless it's a Tumult type (which Lily also handles).

-Star, you'd set it 5-10 sec before the raidwide. The raidwide hits. Let it reach Earthly Dominance. Pop it or allow it to pop (+720 potency). Your party is healed and safe for the next raidwide.

-Lily you'd set it 5-10 sec before the raidwide. The raidwide hits (+400 potency). Let it expire. Lily automatically uses 4 excess stacks (+800 potency). Your party is healed and safe for the next raidwide.

It's a full Star and a half worth in this scenario. Why would you need a GCD heal and how is that massive backloaded potency useless? It only has a 15 sec duration, it'll pop well before you're in any danger. Raidwides don't need healing instantly.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's similar to timing Earthy Star to blow after a raidwide to heal it. Let's say a single raidwide is coming up in 5-10 sec, your party is healthy and the next raidwide after that one isn't for another 10-30 sec. Extremely common scenario. Raidwides rarely hit back to back unless it's a Tumult type (which Lily also handles).

-Star, you'd set it 5-10 sec before the raidwide. The raidwide hits. Let it reach Earthly Dominance. Pop it or allow it to pop (+720 potency). Your party is healed and safe for the next raidwide.

-Lily you'd set it 5-10 sec before the raidwide. The raidwide hits (+400 potency). Let it expire. Lily automatically uses 4 excess stacks (+800 potency). Your party is healed and safe for the next raidwide.

It's a full Star and a half worth in this scenario. Why would you need a GCD heal and how is that massive backloaded potency useless? It only has a 15 sec duration, it'll pop well before you're in any danger. Raidwides don't need healing instantly.

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So literally a worse Earthly Star in every way.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

So literally a worse Earthly Star in every way.

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Mostly because of its long cooldown.
The potency is actually pretty damn high but the cooldown paired with the way it works puts a lot more restrictions on it than it deserves. Even in an absolute worst case where the raid drops to 1 HP but doesn't trigger Lilybell because it's not counted as taking damage, it's a 1000 potency megaheal.
You need to plan it well for single hits but the potency isn't the problem and planning heals is part of a good healer anyway. 3min cd is just way too high. I wouldn't mind seeing it changed to how Panhaima works but a major cooldown reductions is definitely necessary.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

So literally a worse Earthly Star in every way.

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In terms of heal potency it's way better. Which is a big consideration considering Earthy Star is one of the best heals in the game. In other ways, it's indeed worse.

Mostly the cooldown is just far too long and WHM has far too many problems for one good ability to fix.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Mostly because of its long cooldown.
The potency is actually pretty damn high but the cooldown paired with the way it works puts a lot more restrictions on it than it deserves. Even in an absolute worst case where the raid drops to 1 HP but doesn't trigger Lilybell because it's not counted as taking damage, it's a 1000 potency megaheal.
You need to plan it well for single hits but the potency isn't the problem and planning heals is part of a good healer anyway. 3min cd is just way too high. I wouldn't mind seeing it changed to how Panhaima works but a major cooldown reductions is definitely necessary.

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So you don't see anything wrong with a skill, who's entire design is based on Ark Morn-esque mechanics, being used as little more than an Earthly Star?

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

So you don't see anything wrong with a skill, who's entire design is based on Ark Morn-esque mechanics, being used as little more than an Earthly Star?

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"I'd love for Lilybell to place stacks on every person like Panhaima from Sage does."
"The potency is actually pretty damn high but the cooldown paired with the way it works puts a lot more restrictions on it than it deserves.
"I wouldn't mind seeing it changed to how Panhaima works"
Obviously I do.
I'm not your enemy, I know the skill is in need of some QoL adjustments. But potency isn't the problem. The biggest problem is the unjustly high cooldown, followed by how it only triggers when the WHM takes damage. It can absolutely be utilized for regular raidwides without a Panhaima treatment but that means it's on a far higher cooldown for a higher gain than Star.

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

I mean I stood in an aoe to trigger the bell yesterday in a dungeon because or else it was pointless until its time ran out for the big overblown heal.

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this. WHM feels clunky because of stuff like this, its either (1) taking unnecessary damage to make Bell worthwhile, and (2) unnecessarily casting Afflatus Solace/Rapture so you can get to cast Misery before the pull is done. Square's philosophy here was "you have to heal in order to damage!" or "you have to take damage yourself to trigger automated heals!" and im sure that sounded cool on paper but its just not translating well in-game

but i believe this is not Square's final say on WHM because i remember how they introduced the Lily system and Plenary Indulgence and then they had to completely change them both later on, i hope something like that will happen again.
some things on my wish list are:
- make Solace/Rapture oGCD
- make Dia oGCD
- change Lilybell into something thats more universally applicable and not so automated
- either reduce the time it takes to produce a Lily or take the concept of 'elapsed time' completely out of the equation
- maybe a party buff? if not, then make Holy & Misery better

Does a poison potion proc the dmg ticks necessary? I was wondering if it would during pre-release. If it does than I'm probably just gonna drink bleach (as it were)when I'm running 90 WHM to get the most use out of this ability when running DF stuff.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

So you don't see anything wrong with a skill, who's entire design is based on Ark Morn-esque mechanics, being used as little more than an Earthly Star?

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No. Earthy Star is good design, it rewards you for pre-planning and good heal map. I'm baffled that WHM's are up in arms because their Akh Morn heal has multiple uses if they just use their brain. Oh no. It's at least 1200 potency on a stick and everyone is determined to somehow twist it into being weak because it's not the usual WHM baby-level press a button and health bars go up. You don't deliberately stand in aoes drooling (but hey, if it doesn't kill you what exactly are you losing?). If you're in a dungeon just throw it down during a wall pull and it'll shove 1000 potency into your tank 15 sec later once you're running out of resources. No, you won't die 5 seconds after a raidwide hits, stop panicking, and let the excess stacks do their job like you'd let a Medica II HoT do it's job.

I'm sorry to be offensive, but are the average WHM's honestly this bad now?

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

just throw it down during a wall pull and it'll shove 1000 potency into your tank 15 sec later once you're running out of resources.

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let's face it, most of the time it'll pop when the tank's HP is in the 95% area. no need to start insulting, people want more control not a 15 sec delay. it's extremely niche and it goes against Square's goal of reducing ability bloat. it's also the level 90 ability, it should be better

A delayed heal from Liturgy really isn't bad but being able to detonate it early would be a huge quality of life upgrade. Sometimes you need immediacy from a skill even with the best laid plans. I'm more interested to see what the Extremes and Savage Turns are gonna look like since they should have been made with the healer toolkit in mind. I can only hope that they didn't plan for Lilybell to never actually see it's full potential.

Specifically speaking towards the skill, I think a cooldown reduction (perhaps to 2 minutes, rather than 3) or an additional effect while the stacks persist would be ideal.
Barring that, it's a 1k potency minimum heal with a 2k potency max. Post stat squish, high potencies for an AoE ability is very valuable (though, I guess, maybe not to everyone), so Squeen might feel justified for that reason alone. But I feel like they do owe the ability some love, considering the name change.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'm sorry to be offensive, but are the average WHM's honestly this bad now?

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Yes.
...As is the average XIV player in general...

My biggest issue with Lilybell is honestly the extreme variations in results - at worst it's a really bad Tetragrammaton, at best it handles painful Akh Morns or Almagests on its own. But I suppose that's the nature of quirky and situational tools stuck in the same game with stuff like Celestial Opposition, Earthly Star and Physis II.

That said, I kind of like the idea of a handful of situational, but powerful heals. Stuff like Macrocosmos and Panhaima is a breath of fresh air in a game where healing spells have nearly always been "HP go brrrrrr". Currently, though, I feel that Lilybell does need a major cooldown cut down to two minutes - maybe slightly reducing the potency by something like 20% to compensate would be fine, in my opinion. Alternatively, give it something entirely new, like accelerated Lily generation or reduced cooldown on Assize for each succesfully triggered stack.

I sort of like the Panhaima treatment idea that some people have suggested. Otherwise, if Squeenix really wants to keep Lilybell as this sort of totem or ward that pulses healing waves, then maybe it could change to become player targetted instead of ground targetted? So if you target yourself, your damage intake triggers each stack. Target the tank, and the tank's damage intake triggers each stack.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

No. Earthy Star is good design, it rewards you for pre-planning and good heal map. I'm baffled that WHM's are up in arms because their Akh Morn heal has multiple uses if they just use their brain. Oh no. It's at least 1200 potency on a stick and everyone is determined to somehow twist it into being weak because it's not the usual WHM baby-level press a button and health bars go up. You don't deliberately stand in aoes drooling (but hey, if it doesn't kill you what exactly are you losing?). If you're in a dungeon just throw it down during a wall pull and it'll shove 1000 potency into your tank 15 sec later once you're running out of resources. No, you won't die 5 seconds after a raidwide hits, stop panicking, and let the excess stacks do their job like you'd let a Medica II HoT do it's job.

I'm sorry to be offensive, but are the average WHM's honestly this bad now?

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There's several reasons Earthly Star is a good skill. The short CD, the versatility to trigger it as needed, the extra damage, its heal potency and now it's stupidly huge radius. Other than Radius, Lilybell fails on every other front. Due to it's CD, Earthly Stars total heal potency will almost always eclipse that of Lilybell even in relation to it's max heal potency and because it can be used more frequently, it's already more flexible than Lilybell but add to it that you can prematurely detonate Earthly Star as needed and there's just no comparison.

If settling for a mediocre skill is what separates an average WHM from a good WHM, I'll remain average.

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Originally Posted by snuggans

this. WHM feels clunky because of stuff like this, its either (1) taking unnecessary damage to make Bell worthwhile, and (2) unnecessarily casting Afflatus Solace/Rapture so you can get to cast Misery before the pull is done. Square's philosophy here was "you have to heal in order to damage!" or "you have to take damage yourself to trigger automated heals!" and im sure that sounded cool on paper but its just not translating well in-game

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you know how sage uses it's cooldowns ? i use ogcd group hots/shields for nothing but a 10% damage reduce on the tank, or during downtime to regenerate mana. last night did a certain ex trial and my co-heal was like "oh the boss jumps away here, just let me use my 2 lillies you don't need to heal" and all i thought was "go ahead, burn your lillies, but for petes sake do i have to heal if i don't just want to waste mana". these are ogcd's and in that sense a lot more fun than casting afflatus skills on whm, Sages gauge however also regens so much faster it's basically impossible and also useless to keep downtime on the skills so i use a ton of heal skills just to get mana whereas with "afflatus x" you can actually put some planning into using them. that's just the price of healers being somewhat different instead of playing the same class with 4 different coats of paint.

on the lilybell in particular i could potentially see them giving you the option to pop it early, maybe at an even further reduced rate, anything else however would make it way to close to panhaima in usage, which is i will say the better skill (for ease of use) but also effectively so much weaker that if whm gets to the same level of "just press the button and get mileage out of it" than either panhaima would need a serious buff or sage would need a less situational level 90 skill, cause pneuma while certainly not useless is also in the range of "highly situational" given the sages whole toolkit.

also

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Originally Posted by snuggans

- make Solace/Rapture oGCD
- make Dia oGCD

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holy fuck no. no offense meant here but i have to assume you don't raid? the implications of making any of those oGCD for a raid setting are an absolute balancing nightmare.

While it's definitely not as straightforward as Panhaima, there are already opportunities to use it well.

On top of my head, there's the first raidwide in The Mothercrystal EX. If you time it well, it will activate during the raidwide,then the share - and it will dissipate. 1400 potency. No need for asylum, everyone will be 100%.
There's the Akh Morns during P3 followed by spread and tank share. If you let it be and that no one got vuln'd, no one will die. Use Asylum in the middle and keeping Glare away as you should be doing.
Same thing for The Dark Inside. Share marker? Just pop it off. Dots? Press that bell. They attack every 30 hours or so anyways, but you get what i mean.

On top of that, there's no silly antics like waiting for it to be functional. It will really work as soon as it's placed, and that's pretty rare. A 3 Minute cooldown is a bit much,too.

Placing it can be a bit awkward because it's really tiny. I wish you could detonate it earlier. But for all intents and purposes, it works. But most of all, I'm wondering: Does it have to work like Panhaima? Even if I think the bell model looks pretty bad, is it a bad thing if the activation works differently? I think the idea is rather neat as is. There's no work delay either.. I don't know. I would like SE to make the target bigger because the current one is so, SO small, but to me, the skill is fine.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I'm more interested to see what the Extremes and Savage Turns are gonna look like since they should have been made with the healer toolkit in mind.

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Haha, good one! Next you will tell me that they will implement a usage for Repose in the next Ultimate, after all, they have healer toolkits in mind.

Repose not being used in Ultimates must have been weighing heavily on your mind for quite some time because you leapt to that topic with a remarkable amount of finesse. I really didn't see that coming at all.

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Originally Posted by althenawhm

Haha, good one! Next you will tell me that they will implement a usage for Repose in the next Ultimate, after all, they have healer toolkits in mind.

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Not even sure it would consider healers since casters got their repose too as a cross role action (taken from blm)

Lilybell is so strong. There hasn’t been a time I used it where I was not amazed by it. Even if we are full hp and not taking damage, you can just use it and then 15s later see the biggest heal ever on your character. It really makes you feel that whm is a really powerful mage

lilybell is the weakest of whm heals, medica/ cure III are much better worth using then that.
if anything it feels the weakest of all abilities so far especially for a 3min cd, you barely have multi hit stages and to use it properly u need to play bad and if not used its like medica so might as well used medica instead.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

lilybell is the weakest of whm heals, medica/ cure III are much better worth using then that.
if anything it feels the weakest of all abilities so far especially for a 3min cd, you barely have multi hit stages and to use it properly u need to play bad and if not used its like medica so might as well used medica instead.

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So far each of the 3 trials including extremes have akh morn like mechanics. It almost feel like, by this way, the devs had to justify the existence of lilybell as bad as a lvl 90 skill it might be...

I think we can easily expect that it would be the same with almost every next trails/raids that will come, except if they rework lilybell in the meantime.

And with the nerf of thin air, I really miss the feeling of power when you pop thin air then spam cure 3. Now I just feel, as a whm looking at the 3 other healers, like I'm only playing an half finished class.

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Originally Posted by snuggans

this. WHM feels clunky because of stuff like this, its either (1) taking unnecessary damage to make Bell worthwhile, and (2) unnecessarily casting Afflatus Solace/Rapture so you can get to cast Misery before the pull is done. Square's philosophy here was "you have to heal in order to damage!" or "you have to take damage yourself to trigger automated heals!" and im sure that sounded cool on paper but its just not translating well in-game

but i believe this is not Square's final say on WHM because i remember how they introduced the Lily system and Plenary Indulgence and then they had to completely change them both later on, i hope something like that will happen again.
some things on my wish list are:
- make Solace/Rapture oGCD
- make Dia oGCD

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This I'm going to call out. Do you want WHM to be a turret with no movement? This would leave refreshing regen as the only option for GCD's in heavy movement phases.

Hopefully for Lilybell they see the issue on it and make changes on Tuesday unless they plan Ahk Morn type mechanics in all of Tuesday's fights.

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Originally Posted by snuggans

let's face it, most of the time it'll pop when the tank's HP is in the 95% area. no need to start insulting.

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Your fault for healing the tank to 95% when a heal bomb was about to blow. They'd have been fine at 50%, then Lilybell would top them off while you happily churn out Holy's. Why did you overheal your own delayed heal?

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Originally Posted by Hellebore_Ghrian

So far each of the 3 trials including extremes have akh morn like mechanics. It almost feel like, by this way, the devs had to justify the existence of lilybell as bad as a lvl 90 skill it might be...

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Both EX trials have non Ahk Morn uses for Lilybell right off the bat.

First EX trial for example. Place Bell and Asylum right at the start. Boss uses raidwide that reduces everyone to 1hp. Party receives well over 2000 heal potency before the next stack. You now have a Lily. Temp/Plenary and Lily the stack damage, then your natural Assize tops everyone off. Every WHM I've seen there is desperately spamming Medica II or Cure III and it's depressing.

Second EX trial is the same, right at the start you get a raidwide into a stack and Lilybell is the easiest 1400 potency. But no, the average WHM will Medica II and whine about how far the next Akh Morn and how useless their ridiculously massive heal button is.

Those are just 2 examples right from the start. There are a ton of good Lilybell opportunities in both EX and will be in Savage. Lilybell just needs a big cooldown reduction. Otherwise it's great, the average WHM is just bad.

The bell is just sort of useless in casual content atm. It works "fine" in the extremes and I am sure there will be bleed mechanics in the raids. But It is more or less useless in dungeons and I think that is what bothers people. Make it more versatile. Make it pop when the tank or someone else takes damage. Make it heal less but be back up more often. Give us the option to pop it early like earthly star. It feels so underwhelming when I run expert with it. This is my level 90 skill. It has a cool anymation, the bell even rocks back and forth and the heals look impressive during the aoebleed in the extreme trial but....that is it...

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Your fault for healing the tank to 95% when a heal bomb was about to blow. They'd have been fine at 50%, then Lilybell would top them off while you happily churn out Holy's. Why did you overheal your own delayed heal?



Both EX trials have non Ahk Morn uses for Lilybell right off the bat.

First EX trial for example. Place Bell and Asylum right at the start. Boss uses raidwide that reduces everyone to 1hp. Party receives well over 2000 heal potency before the next stack. You now have a Lily. Temp/Plenary and Lily the stack damage, then your natural Assize tops everyone off. Every WHM I've seen there is desperately spamming Medica II or Cure III and it's depressing.

Second EX trial is the same, right at the start you get a raidwide into a stack and Lilybell is the easiest 1400 potency. But no, the average WHM will Medica II and whine about how far the next Akh Morn and how useless their ridiculously massive heal button is.

Those are just 2 examples right from the start. There are a ton of good Lilybell opportunities in both EX and will be in Savage. Lilybell just needs a big cooldown reduction. Otherwise it's great, the average WHM is just bad.

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I still advocate that the upfront potency of Lilybell is weak even after clearing both extremes. In the 1st trial, I at least get the full potency out of the skill so it works fine but for the 2nd trial it felt very underwhelming to use it at any point really, outside of the end part with the multi hit mechanic. Hell, I once tried to use it at the start of the fight to see if it would be enough of a heal to keep the party alive for both hits (spoiler it wasn't). Using it as an Earthly Star during the add phase felt bad and really didn't even help all that much but it was at least more helpful than most of the cohealers I've gotten during that fight that just ignore the tanks entirely, much to the detriment of my MP. I still don't like the skill.