Is healing broken?

A couple people in my static feel that healing has become broken. With the stats squish they feel that they are healing more then DPS in dungeons. I haven't healed yet in 6.0 was leveling RPR to 90 and doing MSQ. Has any other healers feel that they are healing more then they used to and tanks feel more squishy with the big pulls now?

Nope, no issue for me. Unless the tank overpulls more than they can handle. Can't save the tank with all my CDs.

I read somewhere that this expac will make healers heal more.

I haven't healed yet either but, assuming that is the case, isn't that pretty much exactly one of the things that many healer players wanted? To have content that required more/better use of their healing kits and less reliance on just being a green DPS?

In some dungeons yes, but I am still a fresh SGE, so I'm probably not as optimised at healing as I am on SCH or AST. I've not tested the latter two or WHM (I don't play WHM normally anyway), so I cannot fairly judge yet.

But if this is the case for healing in general then...good.
Pre-EW I was DPSing 70% of the time for most content and on something like WHM or SCH and to a lesser extent AST, spamming the same DPS button over and over is really boring. I don't feel like we're expected to heal enough, especially as our kits are designed to favour healing over DPS but content favours DPS over healing, so it can make the experience more and more dull the more and more efficient you get at healing. Hence many of us who have complained about this over on the healing forums are stating things like 70% downtime where we're DPSing not healing.

Though if people don't like healing more because they might not be as efficient or getting the same down time, we have been trying to respect that with pushing for better DPS (or general downtime) options for that 70% downtime to keep the skill floor low for those at a lower skill level and raise the skill ceiling for those who are getting big DPS down time, but the devs have pretty much said they will not do this and to play SGE because it has slightly more than the rest and will focus on raising the healing requirements but try to balance it to not be impossible for those at the low end but not boring for those at the mid or high end.

Dunno with the faster casttime of your damage actions it is easier to squish in ogcds now.

Maybe people just need to get used to the new pace, i find it very easy now especially with the faster casttimes.

The only issue I've had healing so far is in a Stone Vigil where I told the tank to pull fast, and then I tried to work without most of the SGE's main toolkit.

We only died like, twice, though.

Im almost positive Yoshi P said recently the plan for EW was for healers to heal more. Surely someone will find the quote.

from what i seen, whm and sch struggle immensely in the first dungeon while sage is spamming their 1 dot/nuke constantly and ast is doing a little bit of juggling. havent run subsequent dungeons as a healer yet to give a definitive opinion but speaking from tank perspective, it doesnt feel much different.= from usual start of expansion shenanigans

Speaking of, i loved the first dungeon. Trash packs with occasional adds (the hypertuned) that chunk off 1/10 of the tanks hp with every auto so they were actually dangerous, mechanically intense bosses and awesome music. Definately earned its way to the number 1 dungeon spot.
Best of all, they finally acknowledged healers again the msq!

Healers healing. What a concept.

Not a fan of the "healers do anything but heal" mantra or the add a bunch more buttons so I can have a dps rotation.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Im almost positive Yoshi P said recently the plan for EW was for healers to heal more. Surely someone will find the quote.

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I know he talked about in his interview with Mizztech.
Though in that interview he said that was their focus from 5.x onwards and I didn't really feel it in 5.x I am skeptical.

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Originally Posted by Baconeater

Healers healing. What a concept.

Not a fan of the "healers do anything but heal" mantra or the add a bunch more buttons so I can have a dps rotation.

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Yeah personally I am enjoying the change. It's nice to be actually healing as a healer. What a concept. It has become too great of a trend to see healers just being green DPS and waiting to the last moment, sometimes even waiting too long to cast a heal and people dying because of it.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I know he talked about in his interview with Mizztech.
Though in that interview he said that was their focus from 5.x onwards and I didn't really feel it in 5.x I am skeptical.

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Interesting. I seen it and felt it hard starting in the third 4 person instance of EW.

As a heal main I can say its completely fine. Obviously taking undergeared in consideration. And the fact people are new and stand in a lot of avoidable bads.

And I say this as an Astro.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

With the stats squish they feel that they are healing more then DPS in dungeons.

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Is this really broken that healers must heal?

Cheers

If that is the case, I haven't yet checked myself, I would be happy. I know FFXIV is all about 'you be green dps y u healing?', but if the content necessitates more focus on a healer's actual job.. I don't see the issue.

The same happened the first 2 weeks of ShB.
It's partly the fact that everyone is leveling and thus min ilvl for the most part. Plus players new to tanking or just a bit rusty having not played for months, and getting used to new skills.

I think it's great. I loved the new weaker AST during ShB first week and Sage now is fun as hell trying to keep the tank alive.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

A couple people in my static feel that healing has become broken. With the stats squish they feel that they are healing more then DPS in dungeons. I haven't healed yet in 6.0 was leveling RPR to 90 and doing MSQ. Has any other healers feel that they are healing more then they used to and tanks feel more squishy with the big pulls now?

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Tanks do feel a bit more squishy, rather, I can feel when they are undergeared, but when you have good (high) DPS and a good tank, you can burn mobs pretty easily without much of an issue; I can freely spam holy. You are gonna have a lot of problems after burning through your heals, the longer the fights last. I'd say having low DPS and a bad or undergeared tank is more of an issue now. I brought this up earlier actually in the TfDF thread. I haven't had too many issues, other than when I was first learning the dungeons and didn't know what to expect.

Devs mentioned theyre trying to add more overall damage being dished out to the party and the newest dungeons certainly show it. Pretty much every every boss has tankbuster and raidwide and some regular mobs hit pretty hard, but tanks have more self healing now if upgraded midigation skills so it evens out.

Maybe at lower levels it can be rough here & there but at 90 I feel it's opposite for my WHM I have soooo many free heals/shields that I don't really have to use Lucid. I got Lilys every 30 seconds, got thin air every 60, assize every 45 etc healing at 90 it is fairly easy I still use lucid whenever it's off CD but it not for a lack of MP.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Devs mentioned theyre trying to add more overall damage being dished out to the party and the newest dungeons certainly show it. Pretty much every every boss has tankbuster and raidwide and some regular mobs hit pretty hard, but tanks have more self healing now if upgraded midigation skills so it evens out.

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White mage can throw a mitigation and has two divine benisons, so the tank busters are laughable. I'd say the hardest time I had healing, was during the last story dungeon, the tank hadn't picked up any of his job gear, and was running in pretty low Ilvl. Aside from that, I have been able to heal through even some tanks who were eating aoes, not mitigating well, and low dps. Granted, it was difficult, but I could keep them up. Small pulls, on the other hand, are barely even an issue.

I am on AST atm and I feel it needs Essential dignity buffed because without synastry it does nothing. I had some trouble with some tanks, mostly DRK that somehow refuse to use living dead but still wall to wall. I barely have time to dps in some runs, because I have to overshield the tanks that just drop in hp. But went in again with my static tank and suddenly I could spam aoe dps with some heals here and there. Only had to use 2 benefics at some point because he ran out of cds for a few seconds. I am leveling WHM next which was what I used in Shb and am hoping it is better. AST is powerful and you can definitely heal wall to wall but it isnt like it was with WHM in a dungeon in Shb where I could basically spam holy and then tetra or benediction. I think AST, considering all the micromanaging with cards, should have stronger point blank heals. Buff ED. Do it. Now.

oh my....

as a healer main, I dont think there is a problem if you have to, you know, do what the job is meant to do. I doubt its broken

you might just have to do less dps until you are used to it.

I think this is fantastic, healers should heal. On my healere I have noticed mobs dying less fast now, but this only means DPS need to up their game.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I know he talked about in his interview with Mizztech.
Though in that interview he said that was their focus from 5.x onwards and I didn't really feel it in 5.x I am skeptical.

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It was true in ShB..... temporarily :p, due to the power creep however it quickly became untrue. There were multiple reasons to do the squish and I assume helping keep healing relevant longer was one of them. At least that was one thought I had when people were talking about spamming damage skills, and ShB attempt not lasting very long- was to slow the power creep.

As people get better geared healing is less important, so a tighter curve of growth would help slow that issue. I'm curious to see how long and big the healing window will hold, as we strengthen.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Interesting. I seen it and felt it hard starting in the third 4 person instance of EW.

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I've only done the first 2 dungeons and the first trial so far, I mean, SGE has felt busy enough so far doing them.

Another reason for my skepticism is a question of how long the experience lasts. I think whilst people aren't in their best gear can mean it feels like stuff hits harder. The example I'll give is that I really did not like SCH's 5.0 changes, but when I was levelling it in Shadowbringers, when I got Qitana Ravel I was like "hey, that was actually pretty fun, I think I am getting better use of my kit" and then when I got to the last 2 dungeons it felt 'meh' again and the party was in good gear. And everything after that for any level capped content most people are going to be in decent gear and healing was too easy.

But if this remains consistent with EW and the stat squish, then I'll be happy. But I don't think my skepticism will shift until I'm level 90, have more experience playing SGE (or swap back to SCH or AST) and am in BiS or near BiS with parties of well-geared people.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

It was true in ShB..... temporarily :p, due to the power creep however it quickly became untrue. There were multiple reasons to do the squish and I assume helping keep healing relevant longer was one of them. At least that was one thought I had when people were talking about spamming damage skills, and ShB attempt not lasting very long- was to slow the power creep.

As people get better geared healing is less important, so a tighter curve of growth would help slow that issue. I'm curious to see how long and big the healing window will hold, as we strengthen.

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Hah, I just spotted this after posting and it pretty much goes with what I've just said above. It's also a problem YoshiP highlighted in his Mizztech interview...I just hope too that this is what has been considered in their stat squish, but we can only see and hope.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

But if this remains consistent with EW and the stat squish, then I'll be happy. But I don't think my skepticism will shift until I'm level 90, have more experience playing SGE (or swap back to SCH or AST) and am in BiS or near BiS with parties of well-geared people.

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I'm also curious to see whether this sort of increased damage - and thus increased need for healing - will remain consistent all through EW, or if it's just undergeared/inexperience right now. Some mobs certainly pack a wallop and it's made wall pulling a touch more difficult on healers in particular, but it remains to be seen if this is going to continue once everyone's got some Moonrise/EX mode stuff. I'm finally back to doing Expert every day, so I guess I'll see as time goes on.

I certainly do appreciate the general difficulty of dungeons and Trials going up, however. I just hope if the damage and this difficulty remains consistent, that people will be able to adapt to it rather than give up or call for nerfs. This expansion's battle content has been the most fun I've ever had in this game, and I'd hate to see it eventually go back to how things were at the end of ShB.

As a healer, i don't feel like im healing more then when 5.0 came out. Sage thou doesn't feel right so i went back to ast.

-Realizes healer needs to heal
-Claims class is broken because it actually is doing its job

/thread.

Or you know, the SGEs on average still suck and alot of new players.

PS: Healing is fine.

I heal a lot as SGE. It's not as safe like let's say WHM with many panic buttons.

Healers: This game is boring! I never have anything to do!
Also healers: stop needing to be healed, ugh I don't want to have to do anything!

My healer friends were remarking about how little they feel they need to heal in the endgame dungeons just the other day. I think that it's the same effect we saw at the start of SHB; Almost no-one is overgeared for the new content, so it feels like things hit a lot harder. That'll quickly change as time goes on.

As a healer and tank both, I've experienced both sides of this. Yes the healers are healing more, but given SEs stance that healers should be healing and not doing damage, and YoshiP's recent comments that EW will require even more healing, this doesn't come as a surprise.

On the tank side, yes, I've noted that my shields don't mitigate as much, so I have to be more careful about what I pull when. But again, YoshiP's recent comments indicate that they wanted to make tanking more dynamic in Endwalker, with your damage mit tools scaling with how reactive you are to the incoming attacks. You can't pull wall to wall anymore, pop a cooldown, and just wail away at everything. But again, this doesn't come as a surprise.

My one criticism is SGE. Given that sage deals damage in order to heal, it feels tricky to balance, especially in large pulls, leaving them to be incredibly busy as healers. Personally, I love the constant action even in low content, but I know others might not feel the same.

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Originally Posted by ibrisilbane

As a healer and tank both, I've experienced both sides of this. Yes the healers are healing more, but given SEs stance that healers should be healing and not doing damage, and YoshiP's recent comments that EW will require even more healing, this doesn't come as a surprise.

On the tank side, yes, I've noted that my shields don't mitigate as much, so I have to be more careful about what I pull when. But again, YoshiP's recent comments indicate that they wanted to make tanking more dynamic in Endwalker, with your damage mit tools scaling with how reactive you are to the incoming attacks. You can't pull wall to wall anymore, pop a cooldown, and just wail away at everything. But again, this doesn't come as a surprise.

My one criticism is SGE. Given that sage deals damage in order to heal, it feels tricky to balance, especially in large pulls, leaving them to be incredibly busy as healers. Personally, I love the constant action even in low content, but I know others might not feel the same.

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I am okay with ALL of those changes. Healers should heal. Even the WoL should not be able to be attacked by a small army of monsters at the same time and just stand there and take it. Great changes. Hope the community understands the changes when doing content, letting their healers heal. They won't.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

Healers: This game is boring! I never have anything to do!
Also healers: stop needing to be healed, ugh I don't want to have to do anything!

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Yeah! This one guy with his story about two other guys means that all healers are liars and hypocrites! There's no way that some people think healing is hard and others think its boring, its just one giant hive mind.

This is generally how it is at the beginning of expansions. People aren't geared to the nines for trivial content, they take more damage, so you spend more time healing. It was worse at the beginning of shadowrbringers, me thinks.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

Healers: This game is boring! I never have anything to do!
Also healers: stop needing to be healed, ugh I don't want to have to do anything!

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Two different groups. This kind of thinking never made any sense

Some things do hit harder (ultimates, this has been confirmed by multiple people that several things in atleast two hit harder), I also noticed some allliance raids (namely the 70 ones) are taking longer to kill so it means more healing because you're seeing more mechanics.

With going into EW pretty much as a blind whm, I feel as though I've failed more parties than I can count. It feels like SE is demanding that I spam nothing but heals and no dps, and that I should know the mechanics beforehand since they've been used in previous raids/dungeons. And yet, I've died to them, repeatedly in a few cases.

It feels so wrong now.

EW leveling dungeons are a lot more forgiving than ShB in my experience. I haven't had any close to a wipe kind of situation on big pulls, while back to ShB, Holminster could turn into a real disaster in a few minutes only.
So far, I've noticed that AoEs hit for a lot more, but it's probably because of gear. Also, tanks stacking vuln debuffs are actually harder to heal than before.

I feel that PLDs are squishier than what I would have expected, meanwhile, WAR are real berserkers. They barely need heals in lvl 90 dungeons. They are walking beasts. I haven't been paired with enough GNB or DRK to compare though.

I think a little more healing is requiered than before, but overall, the dungeons are easier on tanks, so it kinda balance it out.

The difference between a level 81 Tank and a level 82 tank in the 1st dungeon is quite surprising due to the upgraded CD trait tanks get that makes them a hell of a lot more sturdy.
My 1st run on SCH of the dungeon with a level 82 PLD was vastly different than the level 81 GNB that followed. The PLD required minimal healing that my oGCDs alone could handle fine. The GBN almost died on several pulls even after I spent all my oGCDs and resorted to spamming Adlo to keep up.