Level 70 Sage rotation?

So whats a good level 70 rotation? im kinda confused atm

Just like you, no one else has any idea.

It's 70, wing it until you're 90 and then care about your toolkit.

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1?

as dumb as it sounds

eurkrasis- Edosis-dosis until you need to refresh Edosis for your gcd loop. Sprinkle in your ogcds whenever

And keep your Phlegma charges running in addition to keeping dot up and spamming Dosis, it's a dps gain both single and multi target but melee ranged

I think it'll depend on single or multiple targets.

Single Target:
Eukrasia Dosis and refresh when it's about to run out
Dosis in between everything else (and spam it)
Phelgma whenever you can
Toxicon when you have it up and need to move (if you don't need to move then you're better off with Dosis)

Multiple Target
Eukrasia Dosis and refresh when it's about to run out
Dyscrasia in between everything else (and spam it)
Phelgma whenever you can
Toxicon when you have it up

And to get Toxicon up, in the short time I've been able to get away with playing (I am a work), I've been making it a habit of eating AoE with Eukrasian Diagnosis up, which has been fine for doing FATE so far, the damage is nothing and it's more Toxicons. It makes me wonder how I might purposefully eat AoEs playing Sage if I'm not expect anybody to take damage or whether it'll be a DPS gain or loss.

The best rotation is doing a 180 and picking a class that has more depth than a drop of water.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Visanis

The best rotation is doing a 180 and picking a class that has more depth than a drop of water.

---

So all healers are out. And the tanks, maybe GNB?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saefinn

I think it'll depend on single or multiple targets.

Single Target:
Eukrasia Dosis and refresh when it's about to run out
Dosis in between everything else (and spam it)
Phelgma whenever you can
Toxikon when you have it up and need to move (if you don't need to move then you're better off with Dosis)

Multiple Target
Eukrasia Dosis and refresh when it's about to run out
Dyscrasia in between everything else (and spam it)
Phelgma whenever you can
Toxicon when you have it up

And to get Toxicon up, in the short time I've been able to get away with playing (I am a work), I've been making it a habit of eating AoE with Eukrasian Diagnosis up, which has been fine for doing FATE so far, the damage is nothing and it's more Toxicons. It makes me wonder how I might purposefully eat AoEs playing Sage if I'm not expect anybody to take damage or whether it'll be a DPS gain or loss.

---

Toxikon has the same effect that Dosis has on single target, and it is just plain better on multi-target. Eukrasian Diagnosis is going to break on the Tank a lot. So much so that you will rarely have time to hardcast a Dosis. Phlegma is alo better than hardcast Dosis as well. It is hard to even consistently keep up Eukrasian Dosis with Eukrasian Diagnosis can break so often. You have to take some time to cast Eukrasia before getting off a shield too. Honestly, I kinda feel Eukrasia is a bottleneck that could easily cause serious mistakes. It reminds me a lot of the old Dark Knight Dark Magic spam issues. A lot of SGE gameplay relies so much on Eukrasia that you won't be hardcasting a lot.

This all means that a SGE rotation looks more like this (regardless of amount of targets), by proc:

1) Toxikon
2) Phlegma
3) Eukrasian Dosis (if you can)
4) (hardcast) Dosis / Dyskrasia (if the tank is not taking serious damage)

This will only change when you are leveling and you have some upgraded spells but not others.

SGE DPS is like WHM but backwards. WHM builds up to instant cast spells from hardcast spells and SGE does the reverse. Also, Dyskrasia feels only slightly better to use than Art of War, and only because of Kardian. You also have so much movement because of Toxikon that if you don't have room for Icarus on your bars you shouldn't feel bad not using it. I also hope that Eukrasian Dosis splits off into its own spell in the future. It feels pretty awkward to consistantly keep up compared to the other healers because you have to use Eukrasia first. I find that Eukrasian Diagnosis breaks by the time I want to refresh it and, therefore, I don't because the tank suffers a lot if I pick Eukrasian Dosis over Eukrasian Diagnosis at that point. And than, because it broke, my next GCD usually becomes Toxikon if there are any number of adds.

(I may be off on some information, but that's how I took in SGE DPS this morning.)

Wish I can tell you but I'm still in q. RIP

Dunno. Wing it up like everybody else.

But I imagine it won't be too much different. Having the DoT button baked into the nuke button also doesn't feel nice... at least that's what I felt when I'm poking the striking dummy earlier.

Toxicon is still a joke.

Healings? Use a similar logic as other healers.

Toxikon is Dosis but instant and can hit multiple targets. It is better to use especially when you want to move. (except, of course, when you are inbetween leveling)

So would your Single Target Rotation be: E. Dosis > Dosis (Phlegma) > Dosis (Phlegma) > Dosis > Dosis > Dosis etc etc.

Use Phlegma on Cooldown and use Toxicon for Movement over Dosis?

Toxikon Phelgma, and Dosis are all GCDs. So, you should do it based on priority procs. You could do a Dosis spam but you miss out on a lot of movement and the extra damage to adds (the first hit of the AOE abilities does not split off too). Plus when Eukrasian barriers break you get a charge that you can use on Toxikon. You get so much Toxikon that you usually don't need to worry about saving them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Superskull85

Toxikon Phelgma, and Dosis are all GCDs. So, you should do it based on priority procs. You could do a Dosis spam but you miss out on a lot of movement and the extra damage to adds (the first hit of the AOE abilities does not split off too). Plus when Eukrasian barriers break you get a charge that you can use on Toxikon. You get so much Toxikon that you usually don't need to worry about saving them.

---

I noticed that, Addersgall fills very quickly. In Single Target you can use it if you got it unless your saving it for a Heavy Movement phase.

In Multiple Target though Dyskrasia is the better choice it looks like. So where does Toxicon fit?

Because Toxikon does more damage on your target it will be better than Dyskrasia, and even on the additional targets Dyskrasia is barely better and Dyskrasia II is even less of a difference compared to Toxikon II (which again does more damage on your target). So, in effect, if you cycle targets with Toxikon you will get a better gain as you us it more. (plus, you need to be point blank for Dyskrasia compared to Toxikon).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Superskull85

Toxikon Phelgma, and Dosis are all GCDs. So, you should do it based on priority procs. You could do a Dosis spam but you miss out on a lot of movement and the extra damage to adds (the first hit of the AOE abilities does not split off too). Plus when Eukrasian barriers break you get a charge that you can use on Toxikon. You get so much Toxikon that you usually don't need to worry about saving them.

---

I honestly don't know where you'd get so many Toxikon. GCD shielding during the pull just to get Addersting to use Toxikon is a wasted GCD; the oGCD toolkit + Kardion auto heals are plenty to get through wall to wall pulls and then some.
I only get 1 Addersting charge per pull because I preshield the tank on the run between mobs, 2 at most. But that's about it. GCD shielding during the pull isn't necessary because Kardia, Physis I/II, Haima, Soteria, Holos and Panhaima plus Addersgall heals are more than enough so I never have to touch EDiagnosis.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maxilor

I noticed that, Addersgall fills very quickly. In Single Target you can use it if you got it unless your saving it for a Heavy Movement phase.

In Multiple Target though Dyskrasia is the better choice it looks like. So where does Toxicon fit?

---

I think you're confusing Addersgall and Addersting.
Addersgall gets 1 charge every 20s, even out of combat.
Addersting is a charge you get when Eukrasian Diagnosis, your GCD shield, breaks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

I honestly don't know where you'd get so many Toxikon. GCD shielding during the pull just to get Addersting to use Toxikon is a wasted GCD; the oGCD toolkit + Kardion auto heals are plenty to get through wall to wall pulls and then some.
I only get 1 Addersting charge per pull because I preshield the tank on the run between mobs, 2 at most. But that's about it. GCD shielding during the pull isn't necessary because Kardia, Physis I/II, Haima, Soteria, Holos and Panhaima plus Addersgall heals are more than enough so I never have to touch EDiagnosis.



I think you're confusing Addersgall and Addersting.
Addersgall gets 1 charge every 20s, even out of combat.
Addersting is a charge you get when Eukrasian Diagnosis, your GCD shield, breaks.

---

Thank you yes, I mixed them up.

Do you have an answer to my question though?

Maybe it's just how I am playing the sage but I feel like I have to use lucid dreaming on cooldown to prevent myself from going oom. It might be my use of Eukrasian Diagnosis religiously so I never run out of addersting charges and all the Dosis spam. On AST every card refunded mana so I never even thought about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivix

It might be my use of Eukrasian Diagnosis religiously so I never run out of addersting charges

---

Probably that. Addersting really isn't worth it. Your better off usign oGCDs to heal and GCDs to spam dosis.

It's a dps gain versus Dyskrasia spam and we only have 3 charges of Addersgall to ogcd heal a tank with. During boss fights Toxikon is barely useful for sure and I don't worry about gaining addersting stacks. Still have mana issues if I forget to use lucid dreaming on cd.

3 Charges of addersgall per minute is plenty, not to emntion only about half of Sage's oGCD Heals actually need it. And you probbaly want to actually use at least 1 stack of addersgall every 20s, to keep the cd on gaining them rolling, which means regianign 7% of your MP every 20s at the minimum.

Also even in AoE situations isn't toxikon a los over Dyskrasia, as you get 2 dyskraisa's of for every 1 toxikon you could get? Seeing as toxikon does 240 for the first enemy and then 120 compared to dyskrasia's 160 to, all so 320 potency over two gcds [It is a bit better with the IIs, but Toxikon 2 is still 330 potency with a 50% dropf off compared to the 340 with no dorp of from 2 dyskrasias]

Hm.. I think getting low on mana mainly comes when nothing makes you spend addersgall (like in situations where Kardia is enough and no need for extra heals).
Sage doesn't have a stack-dump like scholar has energy drain. May be worth (though feel bad) to throw out a addersgall spender (probably the one without CD) even when no healing is required, simply for the mana restore and to keep the charge CD going for continuous mana restores.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tabmow

So whats a good level 70 rotation? im kinda confused atm

---

Rotation ?
Just spam Eukrasia and linked skill xD...

Eukrasia ! Eukrasian Diagnosis ! Toxikon !
Eukrasia ! Eukrasian Prognosis !
Eukrasia ! Eukrasian Dosis ! Dosis ! Dosis ! Dosis !

It soon a meme. The only thing missing is that, like on Aion, your WoL shouts the spell names.
xD...

i've so far been using Kerachoel on cooldown, because unliek healign 10% dmg reduction is always good for something. And there usually was, at least for me, something worth usign an actual addersgall heal often enough that it lined up, somwehtat close to the regain CD in the end.

just gonna ask this here, am i the only one that feels phlegmas damage scaling is kinda weird ?

what i mean is that according to the tooltip phlegma deals 400 potency and than 30% less for every enemy afterwards, phlegma 3 (lets just ignore 2 as its even worse) deals 510 potency and than 50% less for each enemy afterwards leaving us with

phlegma =400+280 per additional enemy
phlegma3 =510+255 per additional enemy

at first glance the higher damage reduction may sound okay considering the higher base damage, but the reality is that at 5+ enemies Phlegma starts to pull ahead of Phlegma 3, which is just weird ?
I get that phlegma is also part of the single target rotation, and by virtue of that alone phlegma 3 is absolutely desirable and superior. It is however obviously designed with aoe in mind or it wouldn't have an aoe component.
I would understand it if we where talking 10+ enemies or something like that, at a certain point it's just fringe cases, especially given its limited range but 5 enemies as the turning point sounds weirdly low.

The problem with Addersting and Toxicon is that the mechanic just isn't that relevant. It is a small DPS gain in dungeon pulls, but you are also losing a Kardion proc. I prefer to use Toxicon during bosses to keep DPS uptime (and not lose Kardion procs) but even then it's not a very exciting mechanic anyway, especially because I don't feel like I'm missing movement options with 1.5s Dosis, DoT and Phlegma.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivix

It's a dps gain versus Dyskrasia spam and we only have 3 charges of Addersgall to ogcd heal a tank with. During boss fights Toxikon is barely useful for sure and I don't worry about gaining addersting stacks. Still have mana issues if I forget to use lucid dreaming on cd.

---

No, it's not:
Dykrasia I is 160, Dyskrasia II 170 potency
Toxikon I is 300, Toxikon II is 330 potency with 50% fall off.

But Toxikon needs 2 GCDs to use because you first have to gain Addersting via EDiagnosis breaking; preshielding between pulls/ during transitions not counting, it's a major dps loss.
2 GCDS Dyskrasia II on 5 enemies is 1700 potency vs. 990 of Toxikon II. Something isn't a dps gain just because it would deal more damage in a vacuum, it's important to consider how you even build it up. In case of Toxikon it needs full GCD of you doing no damage at all.

Haima applies a 300 potency shield and up to 5 more 300 potency shields. That's 1800 potency worth of shielding without doing anything, it's basically immortal mode for tanks in a big pull for up to 15s.
Physis I is a strong regen and is often enough with regular Kardia heals, Physis II even has a 10% heal bonus tacked on and pairs well with the ST heals if the tank still dropped.
Even a fresh lv 70 Sage has a crazy strong toolkit for full dps uptime.

Also, you miss out on a lot of free heal from Kardia if you keep alternating EDiagnosis and Toxikon.

1 gcd vs 1 gcd is the comparison I made. If I was simply using Eukrasian Diagnosis to then use Toxikon sure that would be inefficient however I am using the shield anyway and already have the addersting charges so why would I cast Dykrasia for less? To assume I said alternating Ediagnosis and Toxikon is a dps gain is sort of bizarre when one isn't a dps skill at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rilifane

Something isn't a dps gain just because it would deal more damage in a vacuum, it's important to consider how you even build it up. In case of Toxikon it needs full GCD of you doing no damage at all.

---

This is the sole reason why I think Toxicon is a joke. The closest action in term of functionality imho would be WHM’s Afflatus Misery, but even weaker than that unfortunately.

Toxicon is a poor man’s Afflatus Misery. The only time it could be a gain is if the shield was applied during downtime or between pulls where there’s literally no Dyskrasia/Dosis cast to lose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivix

1 gcd vs 1 gcd is the comparison I made. If I was simply using Eukrasian Diagnosis to then use Toxikon sure that would be inefficient however I am using the shield anyway and already have the addersting charges so why would I cast Dykrasia for less? To assume I said alternating Ediagnosis and Toxikon is a dps gain is sort of bizarre when one isn't a dps skill at all.

---

But why do you need so many shields?
As I said, it's important to consider how you even build it up and to build of Toxikon, you need a GCD of doing no damage at all. And I still wonder why you even have to shield so much in the first place that you regulary use EDiagnosis anyway? Sage has a really strong toolkit.
I've spammed my Sage to 80+ with ShB leveling dungeons and the wall to walls were a joke even if a tank didn't nail cycling their mitigation.
Haima + Kerachole is basically an invuln for the tank for 15s, keeps the Addersgall running and you get one back right after it ran out.
Physis II + Taurochole means more gain from Taurochole and lower damage on the tank while the regen ticks.
And there's still Soteria and more Addersgall stacks. That's just the fresh 70 kit, with Rhizomata (boring as it is), Holos, Kerachole trait, Panhaima, Krasis, increased Kardia potency and Pneuma I just don't see why you would constantly need so much GCD shielding that Toxikon is again because "you're shielding anyway".

Sage is a new class and it takes some time getting used to all those buttons, so shielding for comfort while learning the class is good to minimize pointless wipes but the toolkit is incredibly strong in dungeons and not just close to max level or at max level.

Toxikon will hopefully get a rework because EDiagnosis as the only way to get Addersting and with such a low damage return makes it a mechanic that's best to ignore. But the rest of the toolkit? Damn.

Idk I ended up running Holminster a few times due to many low lvl reapers in queue for example and there were 10+ mobs in some pulls. I played Diurnal AST prior so it made sense to keep a shield on the tank like I kept regen on them as AST. After applying dots to the bigger mobs and using charges of Phlegma before anything else I used Toxikon on whatever was left and spammed Dosis with 2 or less mobs remaining. There were few times where enough mobs and time was left to spam Dyskrasia. It felt like scathe to me where I'd try to avoid being in situations where I should use it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Wish I can tell you but I'm still in q. RIP

---

I recommend playing with trust 70+ for sage and even Reaper. Good way to learn how to play the classes with the que troubles atm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivix

Idk I ended up running Holminster a few times due to many low lvl reapers in queue for example and there were 10+ mobs in some pulls. I played Diurnal AST prior so it made sense to keep a shield on the tank like I kept regen on them as AST. After applying dots to the bigger mobs and using charges of Phlegma before anything else I used Toxikon on whatever was left and spammed Dosis with 2 or less mobs remaining. There were few times where enough mobs and time was left to spam Dyskrasia. It felt like scathe to me where I'd try to avoid being in situations where I should use it.

---

Keeping up regens makes sense if someone keeps taking damage and they constantly suffer a HP loss that guarantees ticks don't overheal but GCD regens are more of a last resort than bread and butter in all situations. Keeping up shields makes no sense, though, as they're just a preemptive heal and usually have lower potency than direct heals. Unless it's to prevent a one shot, they're inferior to direct heals and regens.
When it comes to heal potency alone, EDiagnosis is even weaker than Druochole below 85 because it's on the GCD which means you lose the 130 free heal from Kardia in addition to the damage. And it's a lot weaker than Taurochole. At 85 it's roughly equal to Druochole in terms of heal potency alone but still on the GCD and a dps loss that can easily be avoided by using other tools.
The most effective way to heal on any healer is cycling oGCDs, not keeping GCD effects such as Asp. Benefic or EDiagnosis up. Worst case, a paper tank takes more than oGCDs on their own can cover but then you have e.g. the regen from Physis I/II as an addional heal.
In all ShB leveling dungeons every tank pulled wall to wall and healing was comfortable without resorting to GCDs; no matter how Dyskrasia feels, it's weaker in practice because of the fall off. The damage on the first target may look nice, but it's still weaker than Dyskrasia and spamming Dyskrasia means constant Kardia heals. Every GCD heal makes you miss out on 130/ 170 potency free healing, more during Soteria. Sage is even more encouraged to cycle oGCDs properly.

Thanks for going in depth. I am new to shield healers but also in that other mmo I come from healing is mainly from gcds and cooldowns were generally reserved for boss mechanics or mistakes. I probably need to take another look at all the potencies again.

That's probably the most common mistake people make that healed in other MMOs and came over to FFXIV, myself included. I never used Benediction on WHM in most runs because I thought I had to save it for when someone is about to die. Cooldowns were often longer in other games than here, constant healing was necessary and GCD heals were bread and butter. FFXIV has a completely different approach with its focus on dps for all roles and the vast oGCD toolkit tanks and healers have to mitigate and heal incoming damage. And cooldowns like 60s are nothing. Even 120s is much less than it sounds.
It helps thinking of oGCDs as the standard way to heal and GCDs as the "oh shit" buttons to fall back on when things go south.
But it's good that you're open to suggestions and willing to look at the skills again, not often someone does it. Even if it feels strange at first, you'll get used to it with practice and you're in no rush to suddenly let oGCDs do everything. Just using them more freely and frequently with each run and watching how it affects healing is already a huge improvement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

This is the sole reason why I think Toxicon is a joke. The closest action in term of functionality imho would be WHM’s Afflatus Misery, but even weaker than that unfortunately.

Toxicon is a poor man’s Afflatus Misery. The only time it could be a gain is if the shield was applied during downtime or between pulls where there’s literally no Dyskrasia/Dosis cast to lose.

---

This is my main gripe with SGE atm. Toxicon just feels like a complete waste of time outside of needing heavy movement.

It feels like something you should build up to, but often times just spamming Dosis and Phlegma while using all your OGCDs is more than enough.

I'm only 72 atm though so maybe it will become clearer later but Toxicon just seems all flash no substance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maxilor

This is my main gripe with SGE atm. Toxicon just feels like a complete waste of time outside of needing heavy movement.

It feels like something you should build up to, but often times just spamming Dosis and Phlegma while using all your OGCDs is more than enough.

I'm only 72 atm though so maybe it will become clearer later but Toxicon just seems all flash no substance.

---

It doesn't change later on. Toxicon is SGE's equivalent to Ruin II, pretty much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rewd

It doesn't change later on. Toxicon is SGE's equivalent to Ruin II, pretty much.

---

So much like Ruin II outside of needing to move, it's useless now with the lower cast speed on Dosis?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maxilor

This is my main gripe with SGE atm. Toxicon just feels like a complete waste of time outside of needing heavy movement.

It feels like something you should build up to, but often times just spamming Dosis and Phlegma while using all your OGCDs is more than enough.

I'm only 72 atm though so maybe it will become clearer later but Toxicon just seems all flash no substance.

---

I don't mind that it's a tool for moving around, but I find it a bit sad that addersting ends up so underused compared to addersgall as a resource.