Lets have class only abilities and spells

Lets have class only abilities and spells. Really no reason for some Jobs to ever change back to classes. Some less party based abilities need to be added that are class only abilities and cant be equiped on Jobs.

I don't personally like the jobs to be honest. But I do like having choices and freedom of playing style.

I like the idea of an armory system, but the jobs just don't feel final fantasy at all.

It makes a lot more sense to me personally for DoH/DoL , eg starting off as an apprentice Blacksmith and then going upto something like Craftsman or something.

They should just decide what they want to keep. It's either jobs or classes.
The "class for solo, job for party"-idea is a failure, I don't see anyone using classes at all because jobs give you a bigger advantage even solo.

just change 5 skills from class to exclusive to that class, and add 5 new skills per job.

for example:

5 skills changed from GLA to DPS style, and add 5 tank skills to PLD.
5 skills changed from THM to Debuff, and add 5 DPS skills to BLM.
5 skills changed from CNJ to DPS, and add 5 Healer skills to WHM
5 skills changed from ARC to DPS, and add 5 support skills to BRD

etc etc

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Originally Posted by Avraym

I don't personally like the jobs to be honest. But I do like having choices and freedom of playing style.

I like the idea of an armory system, but the jobs just don't feel final fantasy at all.

It makes a lot more sense to me personally for DoH/DoL , eg starting off as an apprentice Blacksmith and then going upto something like Craftsman or something.

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how does job don't feel final fantasy at all? when was the class anything near too final fantasy? Jobs = DRG,WHM,WAR,PLD and so on which are names of final fantasy jobs and work and have around the same spell as ff jobs system.

Class in SE views are for low manning a soloing doing 4 man dungeons and jobs are for 8man dungeon. You still can go class and do 8 man dungeon but who would do that when jobs are better?

I don't understand why people dislike the job system so much it's the best thing added in ffxiv.

the job system is awesome the way it is. Classes can use abilites that jobs can not and thats the difference.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

how does job don't feel final fantasy at all? when was the class anything near too final fantasy? Jobs = DRG,WHM,WAR,PLD and so on which are names of final fantasy jobs and work and have around the same spell as ff jobs system.

Class in SE views are for low manning a soloing doing 4 man dungeons and jobs are for 8man dungeon. You still can go class and do 8 man dungeon but who would do that when jobs are better?

I don't understand why people dislike the job system so much it's the best thing added in ffxiv.

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The reason I dislike the current job system so much is because we now have 7 jobs and at least 5 of the classes are now completely useless in all situations, party or solo. If the job system had been implemented as promised, classes would be better for solo and jobs would be party based specializations of those classes, then I would love the job system. However, how jobs were implemented has rendered classes completely obsolete and useless with only minimal exceptions. I'm sure they have plans for balancing and adjustments, but if they don't make those adjustments to classes they might as well just drop classes entirely.

I couldn't disagree with you all any more. I find Jobs to be Vastly more useless than Classes. The only two that are actually better than the classes are the Mages. Not only are Jobs at a massive disadvantage in Solo play, but they are at a massive disadvantage in most boss fights too. Having Raise, Stoneskin and Cure in any Boss fight makes you better in the party and Jobs have the exact same stats as Classes. If your not to lazy to actually get Class gear it is easily just as good as AF. It's better if you go the extra mile.

If anything was a waste of time, it was the implementation of Jobs. They should have just given us the storylines.

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Originally Posted by DNO

the job system is awesome the way it is. Classes can use abilites that jobs can not and thats the difference.

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I agree with you but Job out perform classes in parties and since all end game content is group based, where does that leave classes?

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

They should just decide what they want to keep. It's either jobs or classes.
The "class for solo, job for party"-idea is a failure, I don't see anyone using classes at all because jobs give you a bigger advantage even solo.

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Don't think I agree with you at all on this point. When I solo I generally go back to classes. I've even been in parties where a few of the members have stayed on a class just to give a bit more survivability and help support the party. Not sure why a few keep asking for it to be "either / or" situation. Having both available is perfectly fine.

If you don't use the classes, that's fine, but just because you can't "see" something's use, doesn't mean others don't.

Yea abolish Classes in 2.0, I could live with that.

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Originally Posted by FraenirVolsung

The reason I dislike the current job system so much is because we now have 7 jobs and at least 5 of the classes are now completely useless in all situations, party or solo. If the job system had been implemented as promised, classes would be better for solo and jobs would be party based specializations of those classes, then I would love the job system. However, how jobs were implemented has rendered classes completely obsolete and useless with only minimal exceptions. I'm sure they have plans for balancing and adjustments, but if they don't make those adjustments to classes they might as well just drop classes entirely.

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I would use lancer over DRG for Ifrit any day of the week class are pointless for party but not for solo even if there are who cares the jobs are still the class just have 5 more spell and AF which change the job to be played more in party.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

I couldn't disagree with you all any more. I find Jobs to be Vastly more useless than Classes. The only two that are actually better than the classes are the Mages. Not only are Jobs at a massive disadvantage in Solo play, but they are at a massive disadvantage in most boss fights too. Having Raise, Stoneskin and Cure in any Boss fight makes you better in the party and Jobs have the exact same stats as Classes. If your not to lazy to actually get Class gear it is easily just as good as AF. It's better if you go the extra mile.

If anything was a waste of time, it was the implementation of Jobs. They should have just given us the storylines.

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You couldn't be more wrong about bosses. WHM 2x is more than enough to handle any sort of Raising/Stoneskinning/Curing. If you are a DD or THM/BLM you are hurting the party the longer you are not dealing damage, especially because current boss fights are a lot more difficult to clear the longer you take due to adds or other mechanics. If you are dying enough that you need more Raises your group needs more practice.

Just having 1 extra step on combos or an extra branch of combos significantly increases DPS while on Jobs. The extra abilities are also generally very strong for what that job is intended to do.

And to comment on what Zenaku said, Ifrit is the only fight in this game that isn't damaged by the DD being on classes so it is fine there. The fight was designed and balanced around the game before Jobs were around and Ifrit doesn't have any adds or stuff that makes it more difficult the longer it takes.

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Originally Posted by Katella_Avenlea

Don't think I agree with you at all on this point. When I solo I generally go back to classes. I've even been in parties where a few of the members have stayed on a class just to give a bit more survivability and help support the party. Not sure why a few keep asking for it to be "either / or" situation. Having both available is perfectly fine.

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There is really no need for a class in a party if you're not going to a spot suited for your level (=gaining optimal exp/hour), one/two WHM are perfectly fine.

The only case where you'd need classes is when you wipe, or if you want to use other classes skills, chameleon on whm for example. I wish they'd just improved the class system, making the "job" skills class exclusive without locking you out of half of armory.

I would be for them adding traits and abilities that further differentiate classes and jobs. I like the class/job system but there needs to be more of a noticeable difference between them.

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Originally Posted by Pyretta_Blaze

I would be for them adding traits and abilities that further differentiate classes and jobs. I like the class/job system but there needs to be more of a noticeable difference between them.

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Yeah I agree... My main gripe with class-only gear is that there's no need for them at the moment.

I mean tell me one piece of content that you'd do with your class rather than your job?

Topic assumes we'll be stuck at 50 forever.

personally i think when switching to a job you should lose 5 class skills and gain 10 job skills. I do like jobs how they are now though. My reasoning for this is so classes can branch off into more jobs and have it make sense. If war or glad get dark night and they only get 5 new skills that would be pretty dumb imo. For the way the game is setup now id prefer classes to only have one job because there wouldn't be that much to separate them as of now.

Honestly I was surprised when they made the class changes and then put the jobs on top of that. I expected them to leave classes as they were with none of the restrictions.

If you look at the current game then sure class is lacking and most people will only use jobs but gotta look at the big picture.

Gotta remember this game isn't going to stay at Lv50 cap forever, once the cap is lifted it will change how players decide on playing as class/jobs in solo/small group situations.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

If you look at the current game then sure class is lacking and most people will only use jobs but gotta look at the big picture.

Gotta remember this game isn't going to stay at Lv50 cap forever, once the cap is lifted it will change how players decide on playing as class/jobs in solo/small group situations.

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it would be nice if classes stopped gaining skills at 50 and skills after 50 were job only, then classes could support multiple jobs more efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

If you look at the current game then sure class is lacking and most people will only use jobs but gotta look at the big picture.

Gotta remember this game isn't going to stay at Lv50 cap forever, once the cap is lifted it will change how players decide on playing as class/jobs in solo/small group situations.

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This.

Except I'm still bothered by the "only use jobs" thing. As a PLD, there's a very clear advantage to switching back to GLA.

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Originally Posted by Venat

Lets have class only abilities and spells. Really no reason for some Jobs to ever change back to classes. Some less party based abilities need to be added that are class only abilities and cant be equiped on Jobs.

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There's tons of reasons. Hell, on half the events in this game, most pickup groups would rather you be on THM than BLM.

And honestly, If I had to choose, I'd rather jobs get more exclusive stuff and classes be downplayed.

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There is really no need for a class in a party if you're not going to a spot suited for your level (=gaining optimal exp/hour)

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Except an exp party isn't always going to gain you optimal exp/hour- I've had way too many cases where I was better off doing guildleves and also earning gil along with the EXP, than being in the bad party i got in. Solo EXP is still completely viable and when you're soloing, many classes are better off without their jobs in many cases.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I agree with you but Job out perform classes in parties and since all end game content is group based, where does that leave classes?

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Can't you read? lol. They stated Jobs are more specialization which in some cases has better use for end-game/raid content whereas classes are open ended and mainly intended for solo as you can pull from pretty much any class you want. The only real exception to this is THM for people who hate challenges.

As for topic, we already have class exclusive spells and abilities that you can't use on another, i.e you can't use what says "Required: Conjury" or "Required: Axe" and so on. The job system will be further expanded and classes will always remain the baseline for anything, this is what people wanted because classes were all the same and there was zero specialization or uniqueness about anything of them.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

it would be nice if classes stopped gaining skills at 50 and skills after 50 were job only, then classes could support multiple jobs more efficiently.

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I could probably live with this, but I'm just happy I have Dragoon and that I get to jump before everyone else does come 2.0

I'm happy with the job/class system. The only part I can't stand is the only being able to pull from two other classes (which when combined with the class exclusive skills leaves you with virtually no ability to personalize your job skillset).

While it's true that we don't have class specific abilities, we do have classes that can utilize niche's that other classes can't.
Take BLM for example. If you go to BLM. You can't cast Raise / Stoneskin.
If you go CNJ / WHM you can't dps with your THM spells.
Only THM allows you to play the primary role of high burst dps while also having the ability to Raise someone and adding another Stoneskin to the party.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Can't you read? lol. They stated Jobs are more specialization which in some cases has better use for end-game/raid content whereas classes are open ended and mainly intended for solo as you can pull from pretty much any class you want. The only real exception to this is THM for people who hate challenges.

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It seems you're the one who can't read. lol. If classes are for SOLO and endgame is PARTY, where does that leave classes? A means to get to max level? That's just dumb cuz they could just tweak jobs to solo better. I still don't see any real purpose to classes.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

It seems you're the one who can't read. lol. If classes are for SOLO and endgame is PARTY, where does that leave classes? A means to get to max level? That's just dumb cuz they could just tweak jobs to solo better. I still don't see any real purpose to classes.

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There isn't any real purpose ... the dev team obviously left classes because they were scared of the backlash that it would cause if they changed the game so drastically.

This thread is proof enough that even now when there is "no real need" of classes people still won't let go of them.

Adding gear specifically for classes is pretty stupid IMO, it's just creating unnecessary complexity just for the sake of it, you are supposed to be streamlining this game SE not making it more convoluted. :P

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

It seems you're the one who can't read. lol. If classes are for SOLO and endgame is PARTY, where does that leave classes? A means to get to max level? That's just dumb cuz they could just tweak jobs to solo better. I still don't see any real purpose to classes.

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Or they could introduce endgame solo content that's challenging enough to require the solo survivability that only Class offers.

I really don't understand why you guys want to take 1 step forward, 3 steps backward by getting rid of either jobs or classes. It's a cool system that just needs more development to flesh it out.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

Or they could introduce endgame solo content that's challenging enough to require the solo survivability that only Class offers.

I really don't understand why you guys want to take 1 step forward, 3 steps backward by getting rid of either jobs or classes. It's a cool system that just needs more development to flesh it out.

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The purpose of Solo content in endgame? I played many mmo and the only solo content there ever was for end game was crafting. I'm not saying to get rid of classes but as they are now they feel useless so they should tweak them to give them a better purpose.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

Or they could introduce endgame solo content that's challenging enough to require the solo survivability that only Class offers.

I really don't understand why you guys want to take 1 step forward, 3 steps backward by getting rid of either jobs or classes. It's a cool system that just needs more development to flesh it out.

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There is no need for it, which is his point and I completely agree, if BLM isn't strong enough to solo maybe SE should look into why that is and boost its survivability some how, if that happened there would be no reason to have THM.

And as for taking THM to Ifrit that just acts as a crutch for people to play badly and get away with it. (for example raising a scrub who can't avoid plumes and eruptions)

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

The purpose of Solo content in endgame?

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To challenge your own skills as a player.

A side thing when you can't find a group but still want to play.

A solo dungeon could provide different rewards than just EXP and gil. Guild Marks are still going to be a thing, if I'm not mistaken. OK I could be mistaken, but there's other avenues not explored yet for obtaining new and varied rewards.

Hell, maybe even take it a step further and make solo dungeons tailored to each class. Like a Test at the end of your 'guild training'. That way each class has its own unique challenge.

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There is no need for it, which is his point and I completely agree, if BLM isn't strong enough to solo maybe SE should look into why that is and boost its survivability some how, if that happened there would be no reason to have THM.

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Tweaking jobs to be more survivable will make them loose their uniqueness in party play. Which was the original reason for adding jobs, if you recall.

It sounds to me like you just want FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

To challenge your own skills as a player.

A side thing when you can't find a group but still want to play.

A solo dungeon could provide different rewards than just EXP and gil. Guild Marks are still going to be a thing, if I'm not mistaken.

Hell, maybe even take it a step further and make solo dungeons tailored to each class. Like a Test at the end of your 'guild training'. That way each class has its own unique challenge.

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devs said they have no plans to start using guildmarks again

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Originally Posted by Jinko

There is no need for it, which is his point and I completely agree, if BLM isn't strong enough to solo maybe SE should look into why that is and boost its survivability some how, if that happened there would be no reason to have THM.

And as for taking THM to Ifrit that just acts as a crutch for people to play badly and get away with it. (for example raising a scrub who can't avoid plumes and eruptions)

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They could Cap Classes to L30 and then force you to take on a job with multiple job choices per class. Classes could be kind of like the Novice Job in Ragnarok online. kind of a starting point for each character where you learn how to play the basics and learn your first spells/abilities. Then you chose a job in order to decide which role you want to play in the game. Remove the ability of using spells from other classes when using a class and make that a Job thing which would enable Jobs to solo content all the way to max level.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

And as for taking THM to Ifrit that just acts as a crutch for people to play badly and get away with it. (for example raising a scrub who can't avoid plumes and eruptions)

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I disagree with this~ If anything THM is more useful for PUGs simply because of the other people that wipe...

In a situation: Oh great, i'm the only ranged alive... Shit i'm on BLM! Well, guess one of the WHM is going to have to raise... Damn it! the other WHM let the tank die >_<"

It happens ALL the time in PUGs and going BLM is only acceptable when someone else can handle backpacking the newer players in the fight. When it comes down to it, DPS is the only thing that matters in ifrit... Dead BLMs don't = DPS and only experienced players should go BLM. Far too often I see new players going BLM just to die, waste a raise and die again.

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Originally Posted by Sabaku_Usagi

I disagree with this~ If anything THM is more useful for PUGs simply because of the other people that wipe...

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Isn't that what I said though, its a crutch so that people can play poorly and fall back on someone to raise them.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

This is really it. Especially since people forgot that Ifrit used to be "STACK LANCERS!" Then people realized that took actual thinking to do and now they fall back on THM purely for having access to additional raises.

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Especially this:

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Originally Posted by Sabaku_Usagi

It happens ALL the time in PUGs and going BLM is only acceptable when someone else can handle backpacking the newer players in the fight.

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Assuming newer players will automatically just flatout suck is the biggest problem. I've won plenty of Ifrits with pickup groups because said newer players actually did their research and actually studied how the battle goes.

Sure knowing is half the battle, but those who don't even attempt to do said half are why as said, it's basically a crutch, otherwise there's almost no reason to go THM over BLM beyond bad playstyle...hell I seen a LNC (who is absolutely new to the game) do better than a "veteran/omg elite" LNC/DRG that couldn't get a combo off to save his life.

You people are so closed minded it's painful. What purpose would removing Classes serve? How would that improve the game in any way?

Classes give the ability to create Solo Content. Jobs give the ability to maximize your potential in a single party role. It allows players to have more play style options without degrading either play style. Classes do not hurt jobs in any way. There is no downside to having both.

This is like people Claiming that we should have nothing but instanced raids even though some people want non-instanced content. There is no down side to having both. It is just more stuff in the game.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

You people are so closed minded it's painful. What purpose would removing Classes serve? How would that improve the game in any way?

Classes give the ability to create Solo Content. Jobs give the ability to maximize your potential in a single party role. It allows players to have more play style options without degrading either play style. Classes do not hurt jobs in any way. There is no downside to having both.

This is like people Claiming that we should have nothing but instanced raids even though some people want non-instanced content. There is no down side to having both. It is just more stuff in the game.

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There is very little point to having classes at the same time, you are just saying lets keep them because they are in the game.

I would rather SE remove them and work on maximising roles, lets not forget that having multiple classes as well as jobs tacked on is just asking for balancing issues later on when the level cap raises.

Part of me likes the idea that one class can have multiple jobs, but then i think about it for a minute and realise that a separate job of its own would be much more unique and easier to balance.

You may think that's close minded I just think its being objective.