To Be honest, I felt very disappoint for the change for Dark knight (DK) in Endwalker(EW). As for what I heard from others, The developer setting the dark knight direction to be more focus to damage mitigation with proper mana regen and less HP regen compare to other tank especially warrior (WAR) and paladin (PLD). WAR of course more focus to self healing with less mitigation, PLD more focus to party utility, self HP/Mana Regen and of course blocking attack, and Gunbreaker (GNB) more focus to dps.
However, for the change that they announced, Other tanks seem to have more mitigation than DK, which makes DK lose its position as one of the four tank available, not to mention all of them have more self healing. Even GNB, a dps tank had more self healing than DK.
Yes people may say DK had "The Blackest Night" (TBN), which is the best damage mitigation compared to other tank. However, this will not be a thing in EW since other tank had their own version of TBN. Even before EW, the only mitigation DK had as a tank that superior than other tank is TBN. Giving other tank their own TBN version will surely make DK loses its advantage.
Yes, people will say "but you can absorb damage equal to 25% of your HP, which makes 100% HP amount since TBN only had 15 second CD, combined with the new ability Oblation will become 35% every 15 second, which make up to 140%." No that's not true. Both are different type of mitigation, one as damage absorb and latter as damage taken reduction.
The reason why we use TBN is because we want it to break so that we could gain a charge of Edge of Darkness/Edge of shadow. Therefore maintaining dps since all the ability mentioned consume 3000MP. We wont pop TBN if we didn't assume the shield will break in time (TBN last 7 sec). Therefore, we only pop TBN when tank buster occur. Most of the dungeon boss normal attack won't break the shield in time (excluding those that had damage increase mechanics and damage taken increase debuff). The awkward situation is when you pop TBN to withstand boss attack, later on boss start performing tank buster and your TBN fade away (TBN still in CD), this became more difficult while fighting trial/raid boss where mechanics changing are harder to read.
DK dps is no quite decent compare to other tank, Most of the time is only on par or lesser than other tank. therefore the only thing tank has that is unique and superior is TBN. But this will not be a thing after EW release.
Dark Knight Change discussion
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10-23-2021, 03:25 PMCrimsonrockDark Knight Change discussion
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10-23-2021, 03:26 PMCrimsonrock
Therefore, I decide to give suggestions that DK can be improve to maintain competition with other tanks. The first thing to improve is the most important part of tank, Mitigation.
Firstly, TBN. The change I can think of is simply increase its duration to around 9s or 10s. which allows the shield to break in time more often, which prevent dps loss.
Now for damage mitigation, TBN is definetely not enough. The new oblation only increase 10% damage reduction, which other tank also had but with 3 to 4 additional effects which are pretty decent, also its CD is 1 min (2 charge) while other is 25 sec. Therefore, oblation definitely need also.
The first thing I can think of is add a effect that allows you to regen mana and create a shield that absorb damage equal to the amount you deal while landing a weaponskill. (can set a limit of maximun 300 to 400 potency shield if consider too OP). if these still consider too OP, then set it to only occur for certain weaponskills like bloodspiller and Quietus. since we won't cast these two so frequently outside or Blood Weapon (BW) and Delirium.
The second is add a self regen. Yes dk not suppose to focus on HP regen, but other tank had HP regen for their new mitigation ability and DK will be hard to compete without a HP regen since dk only HP regen is souleater and Abyssal Drain (1 min CD). Therefore, they may add something unique like immediately regen 15% to 20% of your HP when your HP drop below 50% (only occur once per charge of oblation). (reference form removed ability "Sole Survivor"). Maybe also a effect that regen mana while being attacked (reference from "Blood Price").
Another suggestion is simply add a damage absorb effect for bloodspiller and Quietus if didn't add those additional effect mentioned above to oblation. For example, like bloodspiller will regen 200 to 300 mana (since got a word blood) and create a shield that absorb damage equally to damage deal (could set a limit of 300 to 400 potency if consider too op). While Quietus will create a shield that absorb 50 to 80 potency per target hits (since is an aoe). this will be pretty decent when use with Delirium since it allows you to use 3 stack of the ability any time within 30 sec. (attack and defense in the same time sounds cool and I prefer more to it). -
10-23-2021, 03:27 PMCrimsonrock
Now for the dps part.
first of all, its OGCD. PLD got spirt within/Expiarcion, GNB got Blasting Zone and WAR have Upheaval/Orogency, There are all 30 second CD. Then why DK Carve and Spit is 1 min CD. Pls change it to 30 sec. if 600 mana regen for every 30 second as an OGCD consider too OP, then decrease the mana regen to 300 just like spirit within.
Abyssal Drain could have a increase in healing potency since is the only two HP regen DK had if no other additional HP regen add in EW. Or make it to 2 charge.
For the Plunge, while not just change the trait to allow if to have 3 charge instead of reduce 5 second cd for every Unmend cast. Not saying that I don't like the the current trait, it just felt wierd.
Furthermore, pls change the categories of aoe GCD attack of DK to Weaponskills. You know the reasons.
For Salted Earth, I don't have problem with it so not gonna say something to it.
For BW, can change it to like have duration of 15 sec instead of 10 second. is a dps lose when you pop it accidently and the boss immediately go to other phase that you can't do melee dps. Or can change it to like stacks just like Delirium. Or change it back to what it likes in HW, where it has 15 sec duration, increase your skill speed by 10% and regen mana. The current BW just felt not nice compared to other tanks.
Now for additional part I want a change is shadowbringer, its animation. The current one seems like a 3x/4x Floor of Shadow stacking together. I would like to have a cool animation, something like......."Getsuga tensoh" (Bleach reference). -
10-23-2021, 04:03 PMCrimsonrockDark Arts.
Some people complain about the Dark Arts mechanics. I actually started in shadowbringer so I not sure what they were complained initially. But after I take a look for how dark arts work in previous expansion. I get their reasons. The original dark arts works something like ninja Kassatsu where yo can augmented your ability. DK can augmented one of their their offensive as well as defensive OGCD every time after poping dark arts. But now, dark arts can other pop by TBN and only effect Edge of shadow and Flood of Shadow. which make DK felt less unique compared to other tank.
The first change I think of is make it to like how Ninja Kassatsu works. but that will be what just like previous expansion does. which people complain about how their fingers broke while continuous clicking dark arts ability.
So, I thinking about maybe make the dark arts able to stack up to 3 stacks. But after i monitor myself. These design will give rise to another problem.
Take a scenario as an example. while fighting boss, I have 2 stack of dark arts, and my mana is about to over leak. I choose to cast Edge of shadow/Flood of Shadow since it consume mana. However, due to how dark arts, my dark arts consumed instead of mana. which lead to my mana still over leak and no dark arts to empower my defensive OGCD to withstand tank buster and other boss mechanics.
Another example, I choose to wait for boss tank buster and mechanic so that I have dark arts to empower my Defensive OGCD. However, this will lead to decrease in dps due to the affect of darkside and Mana overleak.
Change of Dark Arts I could think of
So, after thinking, I suggest maybe the developer can make categories for dark arts. An offensive Dark Art, Defensive Dark Arts, and Omnipotent Dark Art (could use as both offensive and defensive dark Arts if none of these are stacked). Dark Arts can stll be stack up to 3 but each stack for different types of Dark Arts.
Offensive Dark Arts are use to empower offensive OGCD such as Carve and Spit and both Edge of shadow/Flood of Shadow(gain from doing combo such as Souleater and Stalwart Soul), Defensive Darts are use to empower defensive OGCD such as Shadow Wall (gain from TBN).
Omnipotent gained by poping a ability call "Dark Arts". (Dark Arts originally gain by just clicking "Dark Arts"). And it will provide defensive Dark Arts instead if Omnipotent had stacked. Provide Offensive if other two had stacked.
These way, if could make it more covenience for DK to pop both offensive and defensive abilities without colliding with others. -
10-23-2021, 04:09 PMBacent
This is more of a discussion for the actual tank forum -> https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...657-Tank-Roles
It'll probably get moved there by forum staff ekwehntually. -
10-23-2021, 04:31 PM_Pigzig:confused: I don't.Quote:
Furthermore, pls change the categories of aoe GCD attack of DK to Weaponskills. You know the reasons.
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10-23-2021, 10:26 PMItMeWhy attach mitigation to your burst window?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonrock
Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to be more in control of my mitigation, and not just become arbitrarily tankier during a certain part of my rotation.
It's so weak... I don't understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonrock
It feels like a holdover from the Dark Arts days and I'm surprised when we lost the ability to buff it that it wasn't replaced with a buffed version.
I totally agree. An upgrade would be good. -
10-23-2021, 10:42 PMHanayumi
If Pld gets a combo with big flashy swords, Drk could do for a Dark magical counterpart...
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10-23-2021, 10:46 PMSteelbreaker25Unleash, Stalwart Soul, and Unmend are classified as spells, which means they aren't affected by skill speed, so you get less out of them when using Blood Weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Pigzig
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10-24-2021, 12:33 AMJeeqbit
I disagree with your points on TBN. It works now so it will work in EW. In ShB you use TBN if it will break. If it's not breaking, you aren't taking enough damage, so you can use % mitigation instead like Shadow Wall.
Giving DRK a regen (beyond Souleater) would not be balanced because TBN is very powerful and makes some content soloable the way self-heals allow on other tanks.
For OGCD aoe, DRK already has Flood of Shadow and many other aoe abilities, so it doesn't need the OGCD aoe the other tanks got.
Abyssal Drain is supposed to take health from each enemy, so it can heal you to full if there are lots of enemies. -
10-24-2021, 02:21 AMTheMightyMollusk
I'd just like it to play more like its own thing, rather than edgy warrior.
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10-24-2021, 02:44 AMEndarielMan, i did not particularly like "dark arts" dark "dark arts" arts in SB, but now I kinda want it backQuote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
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10-24-2021, 05:19 AMLiam_HarperTBN is extremely overrated. It has been the justifying reason for DRK being inferior for too long. Someone always came along with "but we have the best mitigation ability in the game!". It's certainly a strong skill, but it's not enough to carry a class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
All the other tanks are getting their TBN equivalent massively buffed. Holy Sheltron, Bloodwhetting and Heart of Corundum are all incredibly good. They don't consume or rely on your main dps resource at all and there is no penalty if they don't break, leaving TBN as the odd one out apart from a slightly shorter recast time, which is really unnecessary because no content requires you blow TBN every 15 sec (and if you did, you wouldn't pop half of them).
On top of their arguably more useful TBN's, the other tanks will have better self heals in Endwalker too. DRK has been left behind. -
10-24-2021, 07:59 AMJeeqbitPLD needed the extra self-heals because it has been the one tank that, after mitigation and self-heals, had the lowest health even using Sheltron regularly, unless they used Clemency which is not done by most tanks because it's a GCD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
GNB needed these extra heals to be on the same level as the other tanks, because although a bit better than PLD in a party, it has been one of the hardest tanks to solo on. A PLD can self-heal as much as it likes, a WAR can use its abundance of self-heals including its combo and 3 healing abilities, a DRK can TBN endlessly, but for GNB to do the same it would have to spam Keen Edge and Brutal Shell, denting the damage a lot. Aurora doesn't compare to a GCD heal, 3 healing abilities or a 25% health shield on a 15 sec cooldown.
Bloodwhetting on WAR is a bit of a nerf. While in ShB you can combine Nascent Flash with Fell Cleaves or Inner Chaos for 590 or 920 potency, in EW it will be a fixed 400 potency heal which is still lower than the new potency of those actions. It will probably even out though because sometimes those actions are not available. Shake It Off will heal and Bloodwhetting reduces damage, so may make up for it a bit too. -
10-24-2021, 08:05 AMColt47As a warrior main I'm a little bothered by the nerf to self heals. We'll have to see how it plays out in the game but I'm ready to jump ship to paladin or Gunbreaker if it looks like Warrior is falling behind. I'm actually worried about warrior AND dark knight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
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10-24-2021, 01:56 PMCrimsonrock
Because, TBN is the only mitigation DK have beside rampart and shadow wall, reprisal and a not very helpful new ability oblation, which other tank also had (WAR is Thrill of Battle instead 30% mitigation) plus a new mitigation ability with same effect but with 3 or 4 powerful additional effect. Outside TBN, I can only rely on those. I usually only use TBN at tank bluster cause I can't fully read the boss mechanics changing timing, is awkward if you use TBN to absorb normal attack (and shield didn't break in time) and unable to pop for the tank bluster which come just after your TBN faded away (where TBN is still in cooldown) plus dps lose also.
You fine with it, maybe cause you can accurately read the boss mechanics changing timing, but not me. So I only use if for tank bluster, and I'm vulnerable if other mitigation still in cooldown cause DK had the less self healing compare to other tank (GNB gain 2 charge of self regen in EW). You still fine tanking using DK and compete with other tanks in SHB, but will highly no be a thing once EW release with the changes of other tanks. Souleater doesn't heal a lot, is roughly 10% of health every 7 to 7.5 second (doesn't include the time you pop bloodspiller and Quietus instead of souleater combo). And abssyal drain only heal a lot if you pulling a huge pack plus 1 min cd, which less effective while fighting dungeon/trial/raid boss.
And we don't very know how the boss mechanics going to be in EW (especially when other tank receive decent buff for EW). The boss would quite likely be harder than SHB. I can only solo tank some of the bosses in Stormblood without a healer (yes I weak). Don't even think about solo tanking SHB dungeon bosses. And take a look of how of the self healing other tank going to received in EW.
The OGCD AOE is just a suggestion for the Dark Arts design. Is fine if you don't like it. And I highly hope they change the cooldown to 30 sec (with less mana regen if 600MP every 30 sec consider too op) -
10-24-2021, 02:05 PMCrimsonrockWe classified it as a burst window since is only 10 second for popping free bloodspiller and Quietus, then the only thing we do is using these two as much as we can before the time runs out, therefore becoming a burst window. But since Delirium going to change to 3 stack that can use anytime within 30 sec in EW instead of popping as much as you can within 10 second, why not make use of it by adding additional self effect like a shield or something for extra mitigation as it works within 30 sec since other tank going to have more mitigation than DK in EW if this doesn't change.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
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10-24-2021, 02:06 PMCrimsonrockBecause, TBN is the only mitigation DK have beside rampart and shadow wall, reprisal and a not very helpful new ability oblation, which other tank also had (WAR is Thrill of Battle instead 30% mitigation) plus a new mitigation ability with same effect but with 3 or 4 powerful additional effect. Outside TBN, I can only rely on those. I usually only use TBN at tank bluster cause I can't fully read the boss mechanics changing timing, is awkward if you use TBN to absorb normal attack (and shield didn't break in time) and unable to pop for the tank bluster which come just after your TBN faded away (where TBN is still in cooldown) plus dps lose also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
You fine with it, maybe cause you can accurately read the boss mechanics changing timing, but not me. So I only use if for tank bluster, and I'm vulnerable if other mitigation still in cooldown cause DK had the less self healing compare to other tank (GNB gain 2 charge of self regen in EW). You still fine tanking using DK and compete with other tanks in SHB, but will highly no be a thing once EW release with the changes of other tanks. Souleater doesn't heal a lot, is roughly 10% of health every 7 to 7.5 second (doesn't include the time you pop bloodspiller and Quietus instead of souleater combo). And abssyal drain only heal a lot if you pulling a huge pack plus 1 min cd, which less effective while fighting dungeon/trial/raid boss.
And we don't very know how the boss mechanics going to be in EW (especially when other tank receive decent buff for EW). The boss would quite likely be harder than SHB. I can only solo tank some of the bosses in Stormblood without a healer (yes I weak). Don't even think about solo tanking SHB dungeon bosses. And take a look of how of the self healing other tank going to received in EW.
The OGCD AOE is just a suggestion for the Dark Arts design. Is fine if you don't like it. And I highly hope they change the cooldown to 30 sec (with less mana regen if 600MP every 30 sec consider too op) -
10-24-2021, 02:42 PMYeol
The way %mitigation works is that it gets less effective the more you stack them.
using Rampart will reduce damage by 20%
using Shadow Wall will reduce damage by 30%
using both Rampart and Shadow wall will reduce damage by 44%
Shields on the other hand do not have this disadvantage (As long as they don't overwrite each other).
The best damage reduction is: shield + %mitigation. Which DRK can do with TBN + any %mitigation.
The downside is that TBN comes at a cost (3000 MP). If it doesn't' break, it's a DPS loss for DRK.
If DRK cannot get TBN to break, they will stop using it for said mechanic == DRK has the least %mitigation compared to other tanks after EW updates.
Other tanks can use long CD %mitigation alongside the short CD mitigation which also has added %mitigation after EW.
Migration-wise, this makes DRK the best tank for situations where TBN breaks, but the worst tank if their TBN doesn't break. Really wish they remove the cost on TBN. -
10-24-2021, 02:45 PMNihility
from my perspective dark knight is pretty good just statistically
The Blackest Night was already the best of the short cooldown tank cooldowns. I don't really have developer data but maybe increasing all the other ones was bringing them up to par. shadow wall and rampart are the same as every other tank and dark mind and dark missionary are strong and have a generally shorter cooldown than other tank equivalents and oblation was like here's even more. every other tank got the improvement rolled into their 25s cd, dark knight was the only one that gets to use them together or at different times depending on situation.
The current potencies don't really much either but currently they look to be up there for dps too
My only real problem with dark knight is all the ogc relics of it's original incarnation. Salted Earth, Carve and Spit, Abyssal Drain, Blood Weapon, maybe even more I'm missing
They all kind of suck and they were just altered in a fitting a square peg into a round hole sort of fashion, They also just make the job needlessly over-busy and they keep adding more.
One of the coolest parts of dark knight aesthetic to me was how they are swinging a giant heavy weapon and the main combo shows it. They are actually struggling to maintain balance from the swings. It's a really nice touch
But with this insane flood of OGC dark knights have it's maybe even twitchier than gunbreaker and the animations look ridiculous when constantly broken
Dark Knight should be like reaper is, fairly slow most of the time but every hit has that OOMPH! weight to it
And just a general gripe with all tanks having gap closers being part of dps, simple solution too, minimum range requirement for them to do damage. Can use them whereever you want but if your not far enough they just get you closer. No longer worthwhile to try and force them and they can be used for the utility they're meant for freely -
10-24-2021, 03:03 PMCrimsonrock
Most of the tank receive buffs especially self regen in EW. PLD have Intervention, Holy sheltron (both have 250 cure potency for 12 sec, not sure is 250 every 3 with 12 sec or 250 over 12 sec), while Intervention had 10% damage mitigation every 10 sec with is already better than oblation, sheltron had upgrade to 8 sec blockinhg attack plus 4 sec 15% mitigation plus self healing, which could possible on par with TBN with no penalty. PLD also had burst window with dots that come right after a total of 1600 cure potency every minute. (beside self healing, DK might still able to catch up by popping the BW equilibrium, living shadow and shadowbringer at the same time but living shadow is 2 min cooldown which hard to conduct). I won't say too much about PLD since is the poster of EW so I ok with PLD op changing.
For GNB, Yes I agree with extra self healing, and 2 charge of Aurora and a bit self healing from upgraded version of heart of stone, Heart of Corundum (HOC) is what they received.
DK had souleater (300 cure potency), Abyssal Drain (200 cure potency, a lot for pulling packs), while Aurora is a 1200 potency every min (2400 for 36 sec in 2 charge) and Brutal Shell (200 cure potency plus shield) with a bit of self healing form HOC, That's already more than DK while fighting boss beside pulling packs. And it you count mitigation, GNB is not very fall behind a lot from DK in terms of mitigation, not to mention GNB position is a dps tank. Yes DK had TBN, but we don't pop it every 15 second as what I mentioned before. With these, GNB is almost reaching somewhere close to DK in term of damage mitigation (which DK suppose to be more superior compare to other tank), plus more self healing than DK in some situation, and already a higher dps tank than other tanks. This already put DK in a rather disadvantage position. People say GNB is the less favorite tank for healer to group in duty route (just behind DK). But this will likely to change once EW release.
As for warrior, yea I agree with the self healing part, since WAR rely heavily on self healing apart for mitigation, but since they change other ability also so I not quite sure how will it work in EW also. -
10-24-2021, 03:12 PMCrimsonrockYup I agree with TBN part. Don't know how people get a 35% damage absorb for TBN and oblation, both are different type of mitigation. And we need the shield to break in time so we unlikely to pop TBN with other mitigations together unless the boss damage is pretty high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeol
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10-24-2021, 03:14 PMCrimsonrockMost of the tank receive buffs especially self regen in EW. PLD have Intervention, Holy sheltron (both have 250 cure potency for 12 sec, not sure is 250 every 3 with 12 sec or 250 over 12 sec), while Intervention had 10% damage mitigation every 10 sec with is already better than oblation, sheltron had upgrade to 8 sec blockinhg attack plus 4 sec 15% mitigation plus self healing, which could possible on par with TBN with no penalty. PLD also had burst window with dots that come right after a total of 1600 cure potency every minute. (beside self healing, DK might still able to catch up by popping the BW equilibrium, living shadow and shadowbringer at the same time but living shadow is 2 min cooldown which hard to conduct).Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
I won't say too much about PLD since is the poster of EW so I ok with PLD op changing. And is not ridiculously OP actually. -
10-24-2021, 03:15 PMCrimsonrockFor GNB, Yes I agree with extra self healing, and 2 charge of Aurora and a bit self healing from upgraded version of heart of stone, Heart of Corundum (HOC) is what they received.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
DK had souleater (300 cure potency), Abyssal Drain (200 cure potency, a lot for pulling packs), while Aurora is a 1200 potency every min (2400 for 36 sec in 2 charge) and Brutal Shell (200 cure potency plus shield) with a bit of self healing form HOC, That's already more than DK while fighting boss beside pulling packs. And it you count mitigation, GNB is not very fall behind a lot from DK in terms of mitigation, not to mention GNB position is a dps tank. Yes DK had TBN, but we don't pop it every 15 second as what I mentioned before. With these, GNB is almost reaching somewhere close to DK in term of damage mitigation (which DK suppose to be more superior compare to other tank), plus more self healing than DK in some situation, and already a higher dps tank than other tanks. This already put DK in a rather disadvantage position. People say GNB is the less favorite tank for healer to group in duty route (just behind DK). But this will likely to change once EW release.
As for warrior, yea I agree with the self healing part, since WAR rely heavily on self healing apart for mitigation, but since they change other ability also so I not quite sure how will it work in EW also. -
10-24-2021, 03:22 PMCrimsonrockQuote:
Originally Posted by Nihility
Yup, the magic damage mitigation is powerful, the disadvantage is it squeeze hotbar space. And oblation, a not very usefull mitigation squeeze the hotbar space even more. I rather they add the cold mind into dark missionary, and add useful additional effect into oblation.
I actually ok with salted earth change. I also hope they change Carve and Split, Abyssal Drain and BW. -
10-24-2021, 03:31 PMCrimsonrockYea, initially I don't know why they complained about Dark Arts and say is merely a WAR clone (although DK did function similar to warrior). But after I saw the previous version of dark arts, now I also want to try it and it felts unique compared to other tanks. I hope they change it but not exactly same as how it function like HW/SB, cause my finger will also broke while continuously popping dark arts and we have less hotbar space to space.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk
Basically all the design idea for dark arts I could think had listed in this thread already. I know my idea is definitely not the best one for DK so I don't mind if you have better idea to share. -
10-24-2021, 04:23 PMCrimsonrock
Actually for the dark arts design.
I think can just cast aside the Defensive Dark Arts idea if the developer add some change like give extra damage absorb shield while casting bloodspiller and Quietus and add additional effect like extra mitigation or self HP regen for oblation. This change could quite likely make DK able to compete with other tanks in EW.
After that, they could just make dark arts to empower not just edge of darkness/Flood of Darkness but also empower other Offensive OGCD like plunge, Carve and Split and Abyssal Drain since "Dark Arts potency" and "Dark Arts Affect" were a thing during HW and Stormblood.
With these, I hope they can change the TBN, like not gain dark arts after shield break but gain it immediately after shield fade away. since other tank don't have penalty for their short CD mitigation.
The last idea I could think of is made an additional effect at level 88 or 90 that allows your living shadow also grand you TBN/Oblation when your HP drop to a certain percentage or before the time duration runs out. We Living dead (Our inner anger /hatred as a form of Fray), we get TBN (a manifest of our feeling of guilty as a form of Myste) why not combine it together as a form of living shadow that fight alongside you. (Can forgot about this idea if it sounds too OP to you, this is just a random idea came out from my mind.) -
10-24-2021, 04:44 PMHazama999
Before you read the rest of this comment, a caveat: I don't raid ultimate, savage, hell, don't even do extremes. My issues with DRK as a job stem purely from the entirely subjective feel of the job when I get my hands on it. What follows has absolutely jack to do with balance, or how "well" the job is doing in the meta or anything.
Anyways,
I don't like DRK's current design, and from what I have seen of the media tour info, I don't think I'll like 6.0's version of DRK.
DRK was my main in 3.0 and 4.0. I enjoyed the feel of the job the most in 3.0, and it has been mostly on a bland decline ever since. TBN was the best thing about DRK in 4.0, but that's about it.
As we got closer to 5.0, I remember being excited about being able to summon Fray, so much so that I hadn't really considered the possibility of Fray just being a really fancy DoT. Come 5.0, and that's pretty much what it was. Delirium being used to spam Bloodspiller as you weave oGCDs, TBN granting DA which would be consumed on using "of Shadow" abilities... Did nothing for me. This wasn't exciting, especially because I've simply grown tired of the "now you can do this skill A BUNCH OF TIMES IN A ROW" thing some jobs have going. Anyways, 5.0's DRK didn't really feel fun or satisfying to play, certainly not how it did back in 3.0, and I have to say I do miss some of those old skills. They had some flavor to em. Sole Survivor, Dark Passenger, Low Blow resets... Hell, even the MP drain effect Darkside used to have! And that was such a small thing! It was an inconvenience, being a drain and all, but I think it was not so difficult to manage it. More importantly it was one of the small things which made the job feel distinct to me.
Fast forward to 6.0 and we got a follow up to Salted Earth, Delirium stacks... Fray passives (lmao)?
Far be it from me to call the devs lazy, because I wholeheartedly believe they are incredibly hard-working to a fault. No, this doesn't feel like laziness. This feels like... lack of imagination? I am sure that there's a strong point to be made on behalf of balance and the importance of maintaining DRK "where it is" under the tried and true adage of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
...But where's the punch? Where's the sauce? The flavor?? DRK feels utterly vapid to me.
To me, to me, to me.
I started this comment with a caveat, and have to end it echoing that these are just my thoughts and feelings on it. -
10-24-2021, 08:14 PMOttkins
Feels like DRK drew the short straw.
Odds are I'm switching to WAR or PLD if what we see is what we'll get.
I dunno what they were thinking, but I definitely don't like the idea of being daisy chained to my Simulacrum. -
10-24-2021, 08:25 PMredheadturk
I for one like how DRK plays now. I never picked up PLD beyond level 60 because I never got how to work the magic combo which meant for me the way it played just did not flow. DRK prior to 4.0/5.0 just had too many things for me to try to keep track of for it to be enjoyable to play for me. Now, when I don't have to keep up with MP drain beyond TBN, it's in a perfect spot for it to be fun for me to play without it being too busy.
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10-24-2021, 09:44 PMAelin_Ashryver
DRK sucks vs the other tanks now with their changes. Shb DRK felt like garbage to me as it is vs SB. Setting it down permanently until it changes. Sad it's my fave tank in terms of aesthetics but I now prefer GNB or PLD in terms of gameplay now. DRK feels like a snail. Fix blood weapon, do something about the pointless ogcd bloat, fix living dead to not be a black hole of healing resources, give it back some actual complexity because right now it is totally brain dead, remove the mana cost on TBN having a mitigation tool linked to your damage is ridiculous.
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10-24-2021, 09:47 PMReinha
Why did Delirium have to be an inferior Warrior skill for two expansions in a row? Make them do different things, ffs.
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10-24-2021, 10:00 PMClaire_Pendragon
someone pointed out "why is LD only 10s or less, when all other tanks are 10s, but not possibly less" given the circumstances.
which, in ShB, and EW, they have mostly moved to make things easier on casual players. but this wasnt changed.
then you pointed out TBN, and getting it to pop. which im fine with the timer, but considering SEs adjustments to jobs in EW, im extremely surprised this wasnt changed in EW as well (to last longer, so it can pop easier for the casual players)
hm odd.
anyways, besides everyones normal complaints about the jobs, something that still matters to me, is making jobs feel as close to the OG FF jobs as possible. Sometimes u cant even get that close, but at least put something in to reflect the OG jobs. Many of the jobs in 14 could have been much closer to their inspiration (with the current design of 14) but one of the main things holding them back, is that they will give a jobs ability(s) to another job thats either not the right fit for the ability (in theme) or is the *lesser fit. (*by "lesser", i mean sometimes 2 jobs could reasonably be given an ability, based on past FF titles, but 1 is the better fit.) -
10-24-2021, 10:00 PMLyth
Don't worry, next expansion DRK will get an inferior version of Primal Rend that does half the potency, can't crit or DH, and doesn't gap close as their level 100 action.
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10-24-2021, 10:42 PMClaire_PendragonIts nearly the same amount of things to keep track of, except now you also have a blood gauge. (Id argue current DRK has more things to "keep track of" not that u actually "have to" on either version of DRK. I think you just spent enough time on it, that it no longer feels like a lot to you, which was the case for 3.0 DRK. Once i spent a few hours on it, it stopped feeling like a lot. it was mostly just press 123, press any oGCD thats not darkened. (i had a hotbar with all abilities i needed to keep dark) and press 4 if ur MP is almost too full. (in ShB case, its press 4 if ur blood gauge is too full)Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadturk
I think this was ur main issue. how "busy" it would be. I disliked 4.0 DRK for being both busy, AND that the business lacked the substance that 3.0 had.Quote:
Originally Posted by redheadturk
currently you press oGCDs less often than you did in 4.0 and id assume the main thing u dislike is needing to double weave oGCDs.
you probably would have been fine with 3.0/4.0 DRKs if they replaced DA with the current flood/edge, but everything else remained the same. -
10-24-2021, 11:19 PMRyuDragnier
It really makes no sense that they thought that every tank should have some form of healing sustain EXCEPT for Dark Knight. Then there's Oblation, which is an insult of a tank action for when you get it. A 2 charge 10% mitigation at level 82, AFTER we've had TBN for 12 levels!? That's an insult. They could have rolled that into Dark Mind innately at lower levels, and given us something far better. Once again, I'm seeing my child neglected and treated badly by the devs. First it was Stormblood, now it's Endwalker. I crave the love and care DRK had during Heavensward...
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10-25-2021, 12:54 AMJeeqbitCommunity is like "SE shouldn't homogenize tanks".Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
When they aren't homogenized it's like "Why aren't SE homogenizing tanks?" -
10-25-2021, 01:12 AMRyuDragnierHere's the thing, you can have things somewhat homogenized while the tanks still contain their own flavor. Compare WAR, PLD, and GNB rotations. They feel nothing alike. There are a few similarities with their kits, but outside of that they do not play the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeqbit
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10-25-2021, 02:06 AMItMeAttaching mitigation to a resource you won't always have access to just doesn't sound like it'll feel good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonrock
Especially since it's extra mitigation that you'll never need. I imagine it'll feel as weird and awkward as AST's old card based mitigation it wouldn't always have when most desired.
Sure, with this mitigation coming from part of your rotation you'll have non-random access to it, but attaching it to some of your biggest DPS abilities... we just wanna put those inside raid buff windows.
For me, the mitigation on the side feels even more at odds with DRK's fell cleaves than the movement speed buff feels at odds with SCH's new party mitigation tool.