You know when you spend the entire raid keeping your Tank alive - barely - and spamming medica 2 for dps and at the end the DPS says - nice raid when you have to heal yourself. Or the Tank says they always pull that big - what's wrong with you healer?
And yet most players are great and most runs are great but every so often you get these really toxic characters. Do we live with it?
Any other healers feeling this pain?
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10-06-2021, 09:24 PMJupiterJaxonNew white mage - but I may give it up after being verbally attacked by toxic players
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10-06-2021, 10:24 PMty_taurusYou can't avoid toxicity in online communities. FFXIV's a really good example of a community where toxicity is low (in-game at least), but you'll never escape it 100%, whether you're a healer, DPS, or tank. If you feel you're being attacked, the best thing you can do is report the person being toxic and ignore them. Giving up WHM won't stop the behavior, and it won't help you avoid it in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterJaxon
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10-06-2021, 11:43 PMLaphicet
Sounds like you're just a bad healer to me... Either undergeared or don't understand how healing works.
Let me summarize it briefly. A healer's duty is not to solely heal and to mend up every minor nick, cut, and bruise. Rather, your duty is to put out as much dps as possible while keeping people alive. So of course you're going to get ragged on for Medica II spam, because most of that was unnecessary and you also kept overwriting your own regens.
A good benchmark for a new player is 50%, as this is where certain abilities start becoming more valuable due to scaling or avoiding overheal... When the main tank drops below half HP, heal them up to about 80% and go back to DPSing. When more than half of the DPS+cotank drop below 40% hp, cast AOE heals. if a DPS is in critical health (25% or less) consider healing them before next raidwide as natural HP regen might not be enough. Also let regens do their work. In WHM's case: medica II gives a regen effect, and regen has more than the potency of cure II for the cost of cure I... if I recall right.
Also, OGCDs and/or cooldowns are not made to be saved for emergencies, use them or lose them is a better philosophy to have (with the exception of swiftcast, as some people save that for emergency raises).
Healing is incredibly easy in this game if you realize this and know how to utilize the stronger parts of your kit and rely on OGCDs. However, if you're curespamming or just constantly trying to get people to full and in a constant panic state over every little bit of HP lost, you make things a ton harder on yourself when you don't need to. And spamming your basic heals is just asking for a terrible time, as you'll eventually reach a point where that's not enough to even keep a tank from dying to autoattacks. Work smarter, not harder. And remember that the faster you kill the enemies, the less damage you have to heal.
If you're still struggling to heal while following this advice, you may be undergeared. in such case I recommend you seek out gear with better stats / iLVL. Or just higher level gear if you can get that.
You may find that you end up spamming a single button endlessly at this point due to how little healing is actually needed most times. Well, that's by design and you can blame sqeenix incompetence for that. They think that taking away DPS buttons magically makes healers focus more on healing, when that is something you do through fight design, not gutting kits. -
10-06-2021, 11:49 PMDBriggs304Yup. Nothing else to do but live with it. There will always be jerks no matter what but they are a small part of the community.Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterJaxon
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10-06-2021, 11:56 PMRoeshelWhat pain? Pain from what? It is easy to let everyone in your party die or let your co-healer heal instead of you in raids. DPS can't survive any raid on their own, nor a tank that is actually tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterJaxon
Maybe stop spam healing and start DPSing.
Tanks pulling big and not using CDs have inflated ego-s, you are better of kicking them from the party, saying something that will make them quit on their own or just not bothering with anything and leave the dungeon yourself. Unless you are spamming Cure, the fault is in the tank and/or DPS if they can't survive the pull. -
10-07-2021, 12:08 AMBrandedbladeYou are asking the wrong forum section for the question. "Should I give up on healing?"Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterJaxon
But to be honest, at this point in the game a healer will unfortunately be expected to keep up with large tank pulls. As a WHM you have one of the best tools to counter that, at least at the start of the pull, in Holy. Depending on what level the content is you'll have all of your other cooldowns and abilities that you can utilize as well. stacking regens to stabilize the tank, utilizing your lilies for free instant cures that you can weave your other skills.
I would highly recommend looking for a guide or 3 on whm and analyze what may be the issue on your end. However know this. Being the best healer in the world can only go so far before a bad tank will force you to compensate or drain yourself dry. -
10-07-2021, 12:19 AMSebazyHonestly, a bad tank changes little to nothing in this game, at least not that you can do anything about at least. I've done dungeons with tanks that had less HP than me, it was still absolutely fine with the caveat being that I did my best to ensure stuff died in a timely manner. In harder content? If the tank isn't doing their job it's probably just going to cause them to die or force a raid wipe depending on the content. Meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandedblade
If you're spamming Medica II at level 65, you are without a doubt absolutely doing it wrong. You might not be entirely at fault, but chances are you are not helping things. Consider recording yourself and watch your replays back for a couple of dungeons. It's surprising how different things can feel when viewed back without the pressure of the moment upon you. It'll make it much easier to figure out where you're going wrong without the 'toxic' opinions of those who may or may not actually be correct weighing on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterJaxon
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10-07-2021, 05:28 AMAverax
If your idea of good healing is spamming medica 2, i suggest you direct yourself to a healing guide.
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10-07-2021, 05:36 AMKDSilver
No content require to "spam Medica II", unless people drastically screw up, and even so, you don't only use that when you have tools like Asylum, Assize or Tetragramaton.
I won't say you deserve to get toxic comment, but I wouldn't be surprise if you might miss something in your healer toolkit.
It happens often that you look like you did everything you could and felt overwhelmed but didn't have the best priorities, not properly placing yourself to heal everyone...
There are a lot of unknown information. -
10-07-2021, 05:37 AMSylvain
I second the idea of recording yourself
Right now it's very hard to know if people in your raid were doing it wrong or you were.
As people have pointed, you did mention spamming Medica2 which clearly not a good thing unless you actually let your hots tick. But then I just wonder how a lv 50 or 60 raid can even come close to require a spam of medica2 to keep people alive.
Like, even when HW raid were brand new (and thus required much more healing than now) I was barely doing a medica2 after every raid burster which means once every 30-60s or so. -
10-07-2021, 11:15 AMRisvertasashi
Sorry you went through that. While the suggestions to record self and improve and all that are good, I feel like it's worth mentioning...
Even if you play completely perfectly, this is part of the healer experience. Sometimes I can show someone a death report that breaks down exactly what they did wrong by each fraction of a second, and I still get cussed out. The best you can do is try to surround yourself with people that aren't toxic for preformed-party content, but sometimes in DF content it still just happens, unfortunately. -
10-07-2021, 11:54 AMIckeDerTyp
What kind of raid was it? Something old? If people complained about ya in those..., use the 'eff' word - mentally and leave it behind ^^
If it was some endgame stuff, try harder! :3
Spamming heals is never a good thing, albeit sometimes needed, tho that's just me talking about undergeared wall to wall pulls in a few dungeons :D
Definetly not the norm!
Then again, I don't raid 'cept roulette stuff. Advice is, read what people wrote here and find out if you're playing the best you can, which you should always aim for imho!
Don't give up and goodluck Adventuring ^^ -
10-09-2021, 01:38 PMMellowMink
You should be outputting damage as well, not only healing, and you also don't need to constantly heal when someone only gets a papercut. More damage toward the enemy also means less battle time, which in turn means less overall healing needed.
That said, someone harassing you (not providing gameplay advice in a friendly manner) isn't acceptable behavior and can be reported within the game if it makes you really uncomfortable; I've used that report feature before for unnecessary attacks, and the moderators are often good at responding, sometimes asking follow-up questions too. I'm sorry that you had a negative experience, and I hope that things improve going forward. -
10-09-2021, 05:36 PMSaefinn
Whilst it sounds like there is room for improvement, but of course, I think that is a given considering your title says "new white mage", so that says you're earlier on in your learning curve, which is fine because you've got to start somewhere.
Annoyingly some people get into that mindset of you're either "good" or "bad", fortunately it's a minority. But they may rarely take it into consideration somebody might be new and inexperienced and being called "bad" can be demoralising as a new healer.
I would say throw aside anything that isn't constructive and learn from your experiences too. Sadly it's unavoidable in any online game even if this one tends to be better than a lot of others.
I'd say not give up on it, because there are aspects to healing that are rewarding and why people end up being healers.
However, to answer your question, "do we live with it?" the answer is 'yes', because even at an experienced level there's people make comments like that but at an experienced level I guess it's easier to laugh about it than to feel self conscious about it.
Heck even at an experienced level we make mistakes and people die. And a part of the healing learning curve is people dying. But carrying the philosophy of "mistakes happen, it's what you do about it that counts" I feel is always a good one to go by, you can learn from mistakes and become a stronger healer and it's that experience that can be pretty rewarding because you start to see how you're capable of bringing parties from the brink of death when they're the ones making mistakes. -
10-10-2021, 01:23 AMKarthunkIf you have multiple DPS taking damage when they shouldn't then that is on them. Give them a medical II and let natural selection take over. Your job is not to be in panic mode an entire raid to keep a few terrible DPS players alive. Chances are if they can't stay out of the glowy circles and lines they aren't doing much DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by JupiterJaxon
As far as dungeons go... If you can't handle large pulls chances are you are undergeared. Gear makes a massive difference in your healing. -
10-10-2021, 12:33 PMDrkdays
Things I'll say when someone dies when I'm healing:
"I figured I'd try turning you off and on to see if you work better."
"I'm practicing my clutch healing. Ty for volunteering your body."
"Don't stand in that."
"Well, now you know how tough you are.Yw."
"You aren't more important than my ham sandwich."
"Oops."
"Actually, the HEALER sets the pace." -
10-12-2021, 04:22 AMBrandedbladeI'm so glad you're so amazing at this game. But I was trying be nice to the newer player and let him know that yes, things happen that aren't always his fault. If the other players aren't doing their best then that puts more strain on others to compensate, at some point the straw will break the camels back. Is he playing perfectly? No, ofc he isn't, I even advised him to look up some healing guides to see what he's doing wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebazy
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10-12-2021, 04:54 AMSebazyIf you think you need to be amazing at any point in dungeons then well, that just reflects on you TBH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandedblade
There's three main differences here:
I've analysed my own runs enough to understand that most dungeons simply aren't threatening to the tank. Right now, there are only two pulls I will be apprehensive on. The first pulls in Bardams and Akadaemia Anyder. Outside of that, there just isn't any need to care. Regen > Asylum > Benison and start holying away, maybe burn a lily if it'll get me a Misery whilst the pack is still up. With Regen up a tank pretty much needs to AFK in a pack of ground markers to have any risk of dieing. Why panic when there's just no need to? That's your cue to congratulate my amazing play of the game btw.
Secondly, peoples mistakes are on them. Don't get me wrong, if I can save someone from the bad I absolutely will. I don't play this game to watch people die and step over their corpses. But if they are eating the bad repeatedly to the extent where I have to chose between letting them or the tank die. They will die and I will shed precisely 0 tears over it. They made the mistakes, not me. I will do what I can. If that's not enough, so be it. In all the years I've played this game, I've had exactly one DPS go off on me. And ironically it was because I was getting killed by the collar on Baelsar's wall. Again, there was nothing more I could do in that situation. No sleep was lost that day.
Thirdly, players in this game have an almost comical aversion to death. It's genuinely both intriguing and borderline comical. I've seen people handle their deaths better in full Everquest 1 Plane of Hate/Fear raid wipes that ended up needing a second raid to recover the bodies. Meanwhile in FFXIV, there is basically no meaningful death penalty for a wipe in a dungeon. Stuff doesn't respawn. Items don't get lost. Corpses don't need to be recovered. Yet some people absolutely flip off the rails over it. I remember at the launch of SB, I got caught napping when I started spamming Bardam's on SCH. I was busy slurping my coffee and didn't realise I didn't have aetherflow or a pet until the barrier dropped and the tank sprinted off. I didn't quite have enough in my pocket to keep the tank up and wound up with a stray add on my back as well. It was a dumb wipe and I'll happily take the blame for it as I should have had an extra 3 aetherflow charges and been closer to the tank if I wasn't dozing at the start. Lesson learned on my part but amusingly the tank flipped their wig over it and refused to budge from the start. So myself and the DPS just carried on clearing without them.
Making mistakes and dieing is only a bad thing if you are too pigheaded to learn from it. I've died plenty in this game (Sorry to disappoint on the amazing front sir).
Rather than whine or blame game, I look back at the shadowplay and even if it wasn't my fault, I'll see if I can adapt and improve to prevent it happening again. Can't run shadowplay? Run a private passworded stream to somewhere like twitch or YouTubetv. I used to use a private hitbox.tv account when I was doing progression raid so the other FC healers would also watch and help analyse or suggest things. There's a multitude of easy ways to really improve ones play if one is willing to actually make the effort to do so. Unfortunately many simply aren't. -
10-12-2021, 07:21 AMLoonies
Mostly of the dungeons i heal only, not enough time to do dps, specially wall by wall pull. First time in these dungeons and with the bosses there is plenty to note, so to survive is my first goal for me and my team members. It might be different in the endgame with good equip, i will see then. But for leveling dungeons i dont care about my dps, enough fun while healing.
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10-12-2021, 07:27 AMKolainaThat’s all I needed to know. That’s a really bad habit to do as whm. Not everyone needs regents and heals all the time. Full hp? Don’t need heal. Nearly full hp? Prolly don’t need a heal and definitely not medica 2. Learn how to whm. Maybe they weren’t being toxic and just being critical. How else would you of known you aren’t good at itQuote:
Originally Posted by JupiterJaxon
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10-12-2021, 02:28 PMKageTokage
Healing probably has the highest level of decision-making involved out of any role.
Ideally, it should just be "Is anyone in immediate danger of being killed by unavoidable damage? If not, then DPS", but if you're working with a group of random people who are more prone to getting hit by avoidable damage, it's prudent to just top them off immediately instead of using Medica II or other regens as you'll probably lose more raid DPS if one of them messes up and dies then you would from spending an extra GCD or two on healing.
You may also have to just largely give up on DPSing if you're working with one of those tanks who doesn't know how to mitigate damage properly and/or is extremely undergeared.
I feel being flexible based on the skill level of the players you're working with is part of being a good healer...unless you're doing harder content with pre-formed groups, in which case you shouldn't be having to pick up the slack of others. -
10-12-2021, 07:48 PMLastelliThat might be true for Ex+ content, but normal content? Nah. The only right decision is to keep spamming glare/malefic/broil while using the occasional oGCD heal. Unless you're running dungeons undergeared with wall to wall pulls, in that case you might also need a few single target heals on the tank, but that's really it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
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10-13-2021, 09:54 AMKageTokage
You will probably have to adjust more if you get one of the hyper cursed groups that's a combo of an undergeared tank doing big pulls plus DPS that don't know how to AoE.
Thankfully, that doesn't happen too often, though my worst experiences tend to be with Bardarm's Mettle or Doma Castle as you run into those newbie GNBs who haven't upgraded their starting gear at all. -
10-13-2021, 10:41 AMSpiralMask
sucks to hear that OP, just ignore any haters--if you're keeping them off the floor, you're doing fine.