We could really do much with Sch- A Shb Sch rework

"We coudn't really do that much about Scholar" I feel is one of the most unfortunate phrases I've heard since I started playing. Anyone who has played Sch for a fair amount of time know its not true but instead of making another thread complaining I think it could be more productive, in the unlikely case someone dev related read this, to have something showing how wrong that statement can be. These changes are that for me

The basic idea is to get Shb Sch with the Endwalker changes and evolve the job from that iteration, trying to tackle as many problems as possible, as such it will be focused on max level only and not leveling:

DPS STUFF (8 actions, comparable to SGE’s 7):

Broil: Reduced cast time

Miasma (NEW): Damage over time with a total potency higher than broil, 30s duration, GCD, 1.5s cast time, 2.5s recast time

Biolysis: Potency nerfed

Bane (NEW): Creates a Dot that lasts 15s, total potency 20 more than Broil, Spreads dots to nearby enemies + its own dot

Ruin2/4 (Rework): Potency increased to 50 less than Broil, Aetherflow actions would grant a Ruin 4 stack up to 3 charges, Ruin 4 has 20 more potency than Broil

The Single target buff they mentioned: Increase damage of a party member by X% against enemies afflicted by Sch dots, its effectiveness increases (X%+1, X%+2) depending on the number of dots the target has.

Energy Drain: Removed (It was bound to happen)

Chain Stratagem: Not changed

Art of War 2: Potency increase over Art of War

GCD HEAL STUFF:

Adlo/Succor: Cast times reduced

Physick: Removed

AETHERFLOW STUFF:

All Actions (Rework): Now give 5% MP upon using them, reduced potency (200 or so each, except Indom, that one 100-150 only), using any of them grant a "Ruin 4" stack

Lustrate (Rework): Becomes a 300 potency shield instead of heal, lets call it "Aethershield", stacks with all the other Sch Shields, gives 10 Fey gauge same recast time as now

Aetherflow (Rework): Gives 3 Aetherflow charges to use on the heals, restores 10% MP, gives 10 Fey gauge, upon reuse grants "Ruin 4" stacks equal to the amount of not used Aetherflow Stacks

Recitation: Can now be used on Lustrate, cannot be used out of combat.

TACTICS:

Emergency Tactics (Rework): Is now a stance, works on Galvanize, Catalyze and Aethershield

Deployment Tactics: Can deploy Aethershield too, when the target is affected by both Galvanize and Aethershield only deploys the one whose mitgation equals the highest HP value.

FAIRY STUFF:

General Changes: All fairy skills would work like ogcd egi assault, changing depending which one is on the field. All their potencies would be increased and any fairy related heal would cost fairy gauge. When I say real potency I mean after the pet scaling calculation.

Embrace/Seraphic Veil: Not changed

Fairy Skill 1 (Eos), Whispering Dawn (Rework): Regen real potency increases up to 600, gives 10% healing buff to spells and abilities, 1m cd, cost 10 fairy gauge

Fairy Skill 1 (Selene): Scholoton (NEW): 300 potency AoE Shield (Aethershield) + 10% damage mitigation + movement speed buff. 1m cd, cost 10 fairy gauge

Fairy Skill 2 (Eos), Fey Blessing (Rework): 250 real potency AoE heal + 500 total potency of AoE regen, 90s cd, cost 20 fairy gauge

Fairy Skill 2 (Selene), Fey Gift (NEW): 450 real potency AoE heal + 200 AoE Shield (Aethershield), 90s cd, cost 20 fairy gauge

Fey Illumination: Removed

Fey Switch (NEW): Gives 10 fairy gauge, changes one fairy for the other and reset their cooldowns, ogcd, 120s cd

Dissipation: Removed

Summon Seraph (Rework): Costs 20 Fairy gauge, Summons Seraph and give 6 seraphic veil stacks, every use of seraphic veil would use one stack, when the number of stacks reaches 0 seraph is unsummoned, effect ends upon reuse. 120s cd (Can't use fairy skill 2, use the fairy skill 1 of the fairy that was on field before its summoning)

Consolation: Real potency increased up to 325 (Around 460 in the tooltips)

Fey Union (Rework): Cost 20 fairy gauge. Immediately designate a party member and gain 10 “fairy tether”stacks, every embrace/seraphic veil used under this effect will be targeted to the designated party member and consume 1 “fairy tether” stack, increases potency of pet’s healing magic by 50%. Effect ends upon reuse, recast time is reduced by 18s for each not used “fairy tether” stack. 180s cd.

As you can guess the gameplay woudn't be especially hard, Sch's dps would be tied to dot and cd management while using Aetherflow as engine to get stronger actions both in the dps and heal side.

Would this be perfect? Not at all, the dps side could be expanded further, during the opener Sch would have to heal spam to get 3 ruin 4 stacks in the burst window and fairy responsiveness would need to be improved to name a few weak points but I think it would be far better than what we have now.

Honestly I would love if any of you share any ideas you have on how to improve this or rework sch in any way, maybe with a bit of luck someone listen us.

Nice and constructive idea OP~



Seems to me that a lotta jobs in FF14 don't want to sit with a capped meter or they lose out in some way.

DRK doesn't wanna blood to cap or it starts losing potential uses of delirium.

MCH doesn't want battery to stay capped or it'll start leaving Queen juice on the table.

Etc.

But SCH doesn't have an issue with it's fairy gauge maxing out. And especially since other jobs don't really play like that it feels really at odds with the rest of the game. Sure, you lose out on some future healing, but, like, if you didn't have a need or a chance to heap you're just venting your meter for the sake of it so it's better to just keep the points handy.
(Not to mention it can be hard to use Fey Union to heal cuts and scrapes and keep the meter from capping when
A.) Your fairy does extra healing you can't control
B.) It's an oGCD and SCH has a jank weave game)

I think it would be nice and nifty if either

- We got another use or two for the Fey gauge.
Maybe SCH could finally get an instant cast shield?
How about a move that refreshes the duration of apied shields?

- We had a trait that buffed SCH for having meter. That way it doesn't feel weird to have a resource we're just sitting on.
(Thinking Giovanna from Guilty Gear Strive)

Like the idea, but somethings i don't.
- Hate switching between Eos and Selene. Leave them like egi Glamours and add more colors.
- If the devs wanna make jobs more accesible IMO they should remove the fairy commands and make that the fairy has more range and just follow us. tbh using place/heel is not pet managment.
- I don't like Dissipation and removing my fairy from the field, so i wish we can summon Seraph to help EOS with more potent healing, AOE esuna, shields and regen.
- Remove fairy aggro.

This seems less of a rework and more like buffing SCH to the moon. I know you said ShB rework, but jeez. xD

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This seems less of a rework and more like buffing SCH to the moon. I know you said ShB rework, but jeez. xD

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Take the potencies and cd times and switch it however you feel is best, the gameplay idea of having aetherflow as baseline and fairies (not just eos) as the powerful heals + more dots and ruin 4 is the only really important thing , idm if numbers later on make sch the lowest rdps/hps healer of the game

I've been pondering on a real SCH rework myself. This was kind what I came up with...

GCD Healing:
Physick: 400 Potency Heal. 1.5 second cast time - 400 MP
Additional - Healing increases by 50% on allies with Galvanize or Catalyze
Adloquium: 500 Potency Galvanize barrier. 2 second cast time - 1000 MP
Additional - If Galvanize is broken, gain 1 Aetherflow
Succor: 280 Potency Catalyze barrier. 2 second cast time - 1000 MP
Resurrection: Resurrects target to a weakened state - 2400 MP

GCD DPS:
Broil V: 280 Potency attack. 1.5 second cast time - 400 MP
Biolysis: 70 Potency damage over time (30 seconds). Instant cast - 400 MP
Additional - Does not stack with Miasmolysis.
Miasmolysis: 70 Potency damage over time (30 seconds). Instant cast - 400 MP
Additional - Does not stack with Biolysis.
Noxicon: Changes between 3 spells depending on if the target has Biolysis, Miasmolysis, or both.
(On Biolysis) Scourge: - 70 Potency damage over time (60 seconds). Instant cast - 800 MP
(On Miasmolysis) Surpression: Places 5 stacks of Supression on the target. 2.5 second cast - 800 MP
Additional - Your Spells detonate Surpression dealing a 100 Potency attack.
(If Both) Apocalypse: 280 Potency attack to all enemies in range. Instant cast - 800 MP
Additional - Places Noxicon on a 15 second cooldown.
Art of War II: 180 Potency attack to all nearby enemies. Instant cast - 600 MP
Aetherologica: 240 Potency attack. Instant cast - 400 MP
Additional - Generates 10 Fey Gauge

Aetherflow Actions:
Meltdown: 280 Potency line AoE - 5 second recast
Rasp: 30 Potency damage over time (45 seconds) - 5 second recast
Shadowflare: 70 Potency damage over time in a designated area (15 seconds) - 45 second recast
Excogitation: If target ally's HP drops below 50% or effect expires, 800 Potency heal (45 seconds) - 45 second recast
Indomitability: 400 Potency heal to all nearby party members - 15 second recast

Faerie Actions:
Faeries have 4 buttons that change depending on the current pet. Faerie actions do not share a cooldown. Dawn's Embrace, Dusk's Spark, and Seraphic Veil default to being used automatically but can be manually cast after using Heel.

Summon Eos: Summons Eos and dismisses Selene. - OGCD 3 second recast
Additional - Shares a recast timer with Summon Selene
Summon Selene: Summons Selene and dismisses Eos - OGCD 3 second recast
Additional - Shares a recast timer with Summon Eos
Summon Seraph: Summons Seraph and dismisses Eos or Selene - OGCD 120 second recast - Consumes 50 Fey Gauge
Equinox: 120 Potency barrier to all nearby party members and swaps between Eos and Selene - OGCD 30 second recast - 2 charges

Eos
Dawn's Embrace: 250 Potency heal. - 3 second recast - Consumes 5 Fey Gauge
Fey Lustrate: 800 Potency heal - 3 second recast - Consumes 20 Fey Gauge
Fey Blessing: 500 Potency heal for all nearby party members - 30 second recast - Consumes 20 Fey Gauge
Fey Illumination: Increases healing received by 10% and decreases magic damage taken by 5% (20 seconds) - 120 second recast - No Fey Gauge cost

Selene
Dusk's Spark: Blinds an enemy (8 seconds) - 3 second recast - Generates 5 Fey Gauge
Fey Tricks: Spreads DoTs to nearby enemies & inflicts Toad (8 seconds) - 15 second recast - No Fey Gauge Cost
Additional - Allows Biolysis and Miasmolysis to stack while spreading.
Fey Gift: Allows all party members to detonate Supression stacks (12 seconds) - 90 second recast - Generates 20 Fey Gauge
Fey Hex: Increases the rate at which target takes critical hits by 10% (15 seconds) - 120 second recast - No Fey Gauge Cost

Seraph
Seraphic Veil: 200 Potency heal & barrier - 3 second recast - No Fey Gauge Cost
Elysium: 800 Potency heal - 15 second recast - No Fey Gauge Cost
Additional - If the target is KOed, resurrects them to a weakened state and heals them
Consolation: 300 Potency heal & Barrier to all nearby allies - 30 second recast - 2 charges - No Fey Gauge Cost
Angel's Light: Generates 3 Aetherflow - 30 second recast - No Fey Gauge Cost

Other Actions:

Aetherflow: Restores 10% of MP and Generates 3 Aetherflow - OGCD 60 second recast
Additional - Can only be executed in combat
Emergency Tactics: The next cast of Adloquium or Succor heals instead of barriers. - OGCD 5 second recast
Deployment Tactics: Spreads Galvanize and Assuage to all nearby allies - OGCD - 120 second recast
Recitation: Allows the next use of Adloquium, Succor, Excogitation, or Indomitability are cast without consuming resources and while ensuring critical heal or critical barrier - OGCD 90 second recast
Assuage: 80 Potency barrier on one ally (20s) - OGCD 90 second recast
Additional - Assuage barrier does not get consumed when attacked and subtracts damage taken by its value for the duration of the effect.
Float: Decreases damage taken for self and ally party members by 20% (15 seconds) - OGCD 180 second recast
Additional - Also causes ground-targeting AoEs to always miss (such as orange AoEs).

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Take the potencies and cd times and switch it however you feel is best, the gameplay idea of having aetherflow as baseline and fairies (not just eos) as the powerful heals + more dots and ruin 4 is the only really important thing , idm if numbers later on make sch the lowest rdps/hps healer of the game

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It's the multiple DoTs and Ruin 4 that are the main things making me say, "Jeez". There's just too much HW/SB SCH (perhaps ACN) incorporated into that kit, and just feels like a blast to the past. But as I said before, I understand that this is a ShB rework, and not really a rework going forward. Nothing wrong with having some fun with some ideas, and there is some stuff in that kit that I really like.

However, the rework I envision nukes probably about 70% of that kit. They would obviously retain the bare essentials for a barrier healer, and still have Lily; I don't even know if they would still have Aetherflow after I cocoon it. At least not in its current state. I would introduce entirely new mechanics to this job that would likely involve the SCH getting something when/if their shields are broken. Shields that release a heal when broken (think a less potent version of excog, but with mitigation tied to it) can most certainly be a thing as well. The Fey gauge would get reworked as well, I am just not sure how this resource will be built or spent. I just know that I would like the skills tied to it to be somehow linked to Lily, and Lily would no longer function as a pet, but a familiar.

Of course they would get some damage abilities. Anywhere from 6-8 of them AAMOF, and they would be very satisfying to use. One such ability I thought of is a DoT that the SCH applies and after inflicting an enemy with it they can also increase the potency of damage it does up to a max. While I know Yoshi leaned towards not giving healers this kind of responsibility it actually isn't a rotation. It is simply a mech where the SCH doesn't just cast a DoT and forget about it until the timer is about to expire; they can actually increase its potency by casting it again while the enemy is inflicted with it; or augmenting it somehow to give it that effect.

That is how I am thinking when it comes to SCH changes. I want absolutely nothing to do with SCH in its current or previous states. So long as they retain their fairy and shields, their identity remains intact.

Overall, i like the direction this Idea goes, but some changes, i think should be approached a bit different.

-Physick: increased Potency and 2,5sec cast time and it has now its own Cooldown with 20-30Seconds (basically doing Emergency Tactics Job as single target Heal)

-Emergency Tactics: turns one single target Heal/Shield into a AoE (Cooldown should be arround the same as Physick, maybe even longer)

-Chain Stratagem should allow something more than just a unsignificant crit buff, maybe something like being a marker for when you Mark Target A with it and Attack Target B with a single attack, Target A gets also hit by the single target effect.

-Bane: I think a better approach on this would be if the effect would explode already existing DoTs on the target for the remaining duration and then apply the unique DoT that follows afterwards.

-Art of War: should get a additional effect, something like bind or knockback for example.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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Its true it has a lot throwbacks of older iteration and mechanics, I dont know how bad the coding of this game is so I thought that the best way to get realistic changes was refurbishing older already coded mechanics. It is one of the reasons why I didnt add any Dot changing mechanic as much as I liked them (outside bane) because I dont know if its even possible to code in game. I really like the idea of having returns for using shield and I hope the devs add it somewhere in the future tho

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Originally Posted by Anhra

-Physick: increased Potency and 2,5sec cast time and it has now its own Cooldown with 20-30Seconds (basically doing Emergency Tactics Job as single target Heal)

-Emergency Tactics: turns one single target Heal/Shield into a AoE (Cooldown should be arround the same as Physick, maybe even longer)

-Bane: I think a better approach on this would be if the effect would explode already existing DoTs on the target for the remaining duration and then apply the unique DoT that follows afterwards.

-Art of War: should get a additional effect, something like bind or knockback for example.

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The thing with physick and ET is to make Sch a healer that without having to use ogcd heals can reliably heal doom like mechanics, thats why its a stance and there isnt a timer anywhere because you dont really know how much gcd heals you may need. The ideas you propose for physick and ET for example can make Sch struggle to heal living dead for example, on top of that, now that sch has shield in its ogcds actions ET would make sure you can get 100% of the heal from them, otherwise heals like lustrate would be meaningless to a target that has recived scholoton and the job would flow worse, at least in my opinion.

For Art of war I think anything movement related would make it worse, knockback would make the melee AoE worse as they would miss targets in dungeons and in wall to walls a bind would break the pull since enemies woudnt be able to follow the tank, I agree that maybe a bit more could be added tho

And really like the idea of Bane however idk if something like that is possible with the code this game has.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Its true it has a lot throwbacks of older iteration and mechanics, I dont know how bad the coding of this game is so I thought that the best way to get realistic changes was refurbishing older already coded mechanics. It is one of the reasons why I didnt add any Dot changing mechanic as much as I liked them (outside bane) because I dont know if its even possible to code in game. I really like the idea of having returns for using shield and I hope the devs add it somewhere in the future tho.

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I wouldn't worry about the spaghetti code. It's not the 10 commandments. It's all about their willingness to give SCH the attention it needs. A lot of past and present iterations of SCH mechanics retain a lot of ARR concepts that are extremely outdated. Things like Deployment and Emergency Tactics only serve to make SCH less efficient instead of enhance their kit and gameplay. The same goes for Lily acting as middleman to abilities SCH needs quick access to. There are just too many issues to try and tackle them individually, or as a unit.

SCH is like an old car that is still reasonably reliable to get you from point A to point B; but the AC doesn't work, and the heater takes forever to defrost the windshield. It's time to ditch the beater and just get a new car.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's all about their willingness to give SCH the attention it needs.

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That is one the biggest issues tbh, If what the devs said in the latest LL is true it seems there is none

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

The thing with physick and ET is to make Sch a healer that without having to use ogcd heals can reliably heal doom like mechanics, thats why its a stance and there isnt a timer anywhere because you dont really know how much gcd heals you may need. The ideas you propose for physick and ET for example can make Sch struggle to heal living dead for example, on top of that, now that sch has shield in its ogcds actions ET would make sure you can get 100% of the heal from them, otherwise heals like lustrate would be meaningless to a target that has recived scholoton and the job would flow worse, at least in my opinion.

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The Idea with Physick on this, is to make the SCH less reliant and limited on classic Healing abilities so that the focus on Shield Abilities would overall improve. As for Living Dead related issues, i think it would be a far better approach to rework Living Dead itself (maybe in a way where only a certain amount of HP needs to be healed in order for Walking Dead to get removed, like 50% HP) since alot of Players overall are dissatisfied with the Ability anyway. And even if SCH would overall struggle on such a situation, all it would take is to make Recitation work on Physick as well since my suggested Physick should have a good amount of Potency anyway (like 1200-1500 Potency, but keep in mind, with long cast time and 30sec CD, and it is the only pure Heal that doesnt require Aetherflow)

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

And really like the idea of Bane however idk if something like that is possible with the code this game has.

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BLM's Thunder Spell already work in a similar fashion where the existing DoT is being consumed for damage, so i doubt there would be any Coding difficulties. Also, the Dev Team isnt a small Indie Companie, i am sure they would be able to figure things out even if it is a brand new idea.



Another Idea on Shields in general i had, is to make them work in a way, where they not only absorb a certain amount of Potency, but a certain amount of Hits as well (for Balance reasons). For example, Adlo could absorb a total amount (noncrit) of 10.000 Dmg or 3 hits, so even if a enemy does 3 auto attacks that deal less than 10.000 Dmg, the Shield would break down anyway. That way, Shielding in itself will never be truly overpowered or underperforming in any way, as long as it is deployed correctly.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

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I gave you the living dead idea to put an example of common doom mechanic, something like TG in Orbonne or that simply forces AoE hp heal would put Sch at an insane disadvantage and with what you propose you would have to had 1st recitation ready, 2nd physick and 3rd emergency tactics just to have a chance to heal it, not mentioning how recitation even tough it works with gcd heals is used with aetherflow heals as its a dps gain, I think its an aproach too clunky when you consider SGE doesnt face those problems by default. What is keeping Sch now from using shields its not how many of hp/regens there are but how expensive shields are, we avoid gcds like a plague and 2/3 ways we have to give shields are gcd tied only 1 is not tied to any gcd and its under a 120s cooldown so thats why Sch doesnt shield that much and why at least in my rework the ogcd sourced of shielding are implemented

With the shields I'm more fond of the idea Gemina proposed of having returns from a shield breaking, reason being that when planning our heals we treat shields as part of the total potency of a heal (i.e for us a succor is 405 potency not 180) making a shield that can break after X amount of hits will mean that we have a variation factor that would make planning more weird and for mechanics that hit multiple times with weak hits basically using them would be waste.

Totally forgot about thunder 4 tbh and its something that would be fun to work with

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

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I dont think even with the suggestions i made, SCH would have much trouble going through any Doom-like mechanics, since they are rather rare in the first place, and when it comes on a larger scale where the entire party can get hit, you have a co-healer on your side (who will always be a "pure healer" with the start of Endwanker) anyway.

but let us assume this happens in Orbonne and your co-healer is either a WHM or AST and ignore the fact that your co-healer is most likely more than capable of providing alot of raw healing on the AoE side, SCH still has (if we take both our ideas into consideration):

-AoE regen and heal that gives a +10% heal bonus
-the heal nuke from physick from my idea with estimated 1200-1500 Potency that will most likely, get one dps back to full HP in one go if it crits
-Indomitability which is if we leave it as it is, 400 potency aoe heal
-Fey gift with a 450 potency Heal
-Emergency Tactics turns one single Target Ability into a AoE (Physick)

That's in my Book at least, quite a good response to any Doom-like mechanic even on a larger scale, and if it doesnt work out, numbers can always be changed. Also, any GCD Shielding Ability can still be used as a backup as a "basic form of healing" if it gets really tough, but i doubt that it will be necessary. If i had any worries on this, its more that my suggested Physick idea would probably need a bigger cast time to balance it out more.


As for the Shield matter, keep in mind that Scholar has Shields on GCD and that fact alone, will make this matter on the smaller scale of things, hardly any different. The only big difference it would make, is that Shielding can't be used anymore to cheese Content for Players on a lower level than you, if anything and i doubt thats a serious concern to be considered. There is also rare Monsters with multi-attacks like the wild namazuos in yanxia (which have a 3 hit combo attack) which maybe, could break through your Shield with ease with weak attacks, but let's think again, are those critters, really a danger?

I’m not well versed to disgust these as I’m not a SCH main but I love topics like these and I adore the title

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Originally Posted by Anhra

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For the Physick, yes that could heal but once again you're dumping a lot of resources into one mechanic while other healers even in the same category (sage) dont need to, if that mechanic is planned yes you can deal with it but if its by surprise or because shit hits the fan (living dead) then Sch has no reliable way to tackle the situation while the other 3 have, also while emergency tactis could work to make a heal aoe, I dont think would fit well outside physick because in realistic terms out of all the heals only Excog and that Physick would benefit from that, all of the fairy heals are already AoE, 2 out of the 4 Aetherflow heals are Aoe and Lustrate and to some extend Adlo becoming AoE can be achieved by using deployment tactics, an emergency tactics that makes shields into heals in the scope of the rework I said would interact with 5 heals and its effect woudnt overlap with any other skill. There is also the thing of Physick being a gcd heal so probably woudnt see much use in the majority of content outside those niche scenarios and personally I think its better if Sch has niche skills in the ogcd kit more than the gcd kit (less oportunity cost).

For the Shields, I get you but what real purpose would that fill? At high end content if you're going to cheese is almost always 1 or 2 hits by stacking shields (look at E10s) so the 3 hit rule woudn't avoid it and when you're healing lower level players is almost always overworld contet so, Who cares if you cheese it? In fact I'd say its possitive for the whole "look how strong I can get in the future" from the newbie point of view, I simply see it as limiting the shield mechanic for the sake of limiting it.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

I gave you the living dead idea to put an example of common doom mechanic, something like TG in Orbonne or that simply forces AoE hp heal would put Sch at an insane disadvantage and with what you propose you would have to had 1st recitation ready, 2nd physick and 3rd emergency tactics just to have a chance to heal it, not mentioning how recitation even tough it works with gcd heals is used with aetherflow heals as its a dps gain, I think its an aproach too clunky when you consider SGE doesnt face those problems by default. What is keeping Sch now from using shields its not how many of hp/regens there are but how expensive shields are, we avoid gcds like a plague and 2/3 ways we have to give shields are gcd tied only 1 is not tied to any gcd and its under a 120s cooldown so thats why Sch doesnt shield that much and why at least in my rework the ogcd sourced of shielding are implemented

With the shields I'm more fond of the idea Gemina proposed of having returns from a shield breaking, reason being that when planning our heals we treat shields as part of the total potency of a heal (i.e for us a succor is 405 potency not 180) making a shield that can break after X amount of hits will mean that we have a variation factor that would make planning more weird and for mechanics that hit multiple times with weak hits basically using them would be waste.

Totally forgot about thunder 4 tbh and its something that would be fun to work with

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You can fully top the party for White Hole mechanics with the current scholar kit just fine if you’re prepared for it. I’ve done it for WoL consistently. Does it take a ton of resources? Yes, but it takes similar effort for any solo healer effort. Reci-Indom + ET Succor + Soil and/or Whispering Dawn with Excog on the main tank and a lustrate for the off tank. Sequence it properly and you’ll get Dissipation for that Succor and only need to use one GCD heal (sometimes I’ve had to use a second Lustrate).

Current Scholar has enough raw throughput for those mechanics. The minimum I’d want is charges on ET for extra consistency, even if it means that gets a cooldown nerf. It’s not my go-to ability for those situations but it certainly helps. If Indom got changed so it had more throughput when used in conjunction with Physick (Ex. Indom now shares a CD with Lustrate, but its potency goes down to 300 while Phyaick grants a buff that increases it and Lustrate’s potency by 40-50%) then you’d have an easier time with Living Dead and White Hole solo while still preferring the aid of another healer to some degree.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

You can fully top the party for White Hole mechanics with the current scholar kit just fine if you’re prepared for it. I’ve done it for WoL consistently. Does it take a ton of resources? Yes, but it takes similar effort for any solo healer effort. Reci-Indom + ET Succor + Soil and/or Whispering Dawn with Excog on the main tank and a lustrate for the off tank. Sequence it properly and you’ll get Dissipation for that Succor and only need to use one GCD heal (sometimes I’ve had to use a second Lustrate).

Current Scholar has enough raw throughput for those mechanics. The minimum I’d want is charges on ET for extra consistency, even if it means that gets a cooldown nerf. It’s not my go-to ability for those situations but it certainly helps. If Indom got changed so it had more throughput when used in conjunction with Physick (Ex. Indom now shares a CD with Lustrate, but its potency goes down to 300 while Phyaick grants a buff that increases it and Lustrate’s potency by 40-50%) then you’d have an easier time with Living Dead and White Hole solo while still preferring the aid of another healer to some degree.

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Yes as you said it, "If you're prepared for it" thats the problem I see with current Sch that for those mechanics you need to be prepared while the rest of the healers of the game doesnt have to, Ast/Whm is obvious why not but even if you look at SGE heals it can do it by gcds alone, obviously no one would heal those mechanics with gcds if they can use other tools but given the case I feel weird that the "shit's hit the fan" heals can't be reliable under those circunstances.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Yes as you said it, "If you're prepared for it" thats the problem I see with current Sch that for those mechanics you need to be prepared while the rest of the healers of the game doesnt have to, Ast/Whm is obvious why not but even if you look at SGE heals it can do it by gcds alone, obviously no one would heal those mechanics with gcds if they can use other tools but given the case I feel weird that the "shit's hit the fan" heals can't be reliable under those circunstances.

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Personally I think we need healers to emulate SCH’s need for planning more, not less. WHM despite having Cure III can avoid casting it multiple times through the use of Assize, asylum, and PI. AST is nigh guaranteed to spam Helios if they mess up Star but still has Horoscope, CO/CU, and dignity for the tanks. I haven’t looked at Sage’s tool tips but I hear they have an empowered Medica II cooldown that stacks with another regen and they can ‘pop’ their shields in a manner akin to horoscope that should make them only require one GCD if any.

The only difference between them and SCH is 120-150 potency on their worst fallback option.

I actually agree on the planning, I think its key to the healers to effiencly plan their heals but at the same time since our mistakes can cause the deaths of other people on a concept level and other's mistakes can break our rotation/planning I feel we need to have some filler in case shit hits the fan and imo gcd heals fill that role, nothing major nor efficient but something that can get the basic of keeping alive people done to some degree (obviously not through high damage and such)

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

I actually agree on the planning, I think its key to the healers to effiencly plan their heals but at the same time since our mistakes can cause the deaths of other people on a concept level and other's mistakes can break our rotation/planning I feel we need to have some filler in case shit hits the fan and imo gcd heals fill that role, nothing major nor efficient but something that can get the basic of keeping alive people done to some degree (obviously not through high damage and such)

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Not having perfect answers to everything is part of what makes a balanced healing kit. That said, Charges on ET solve this ‘problem’ at minimal cost. I’d rather SE actually lean in on the mitigation side and make SCH and SGE GCD shields full on shield potency instead of half and half, mostly to counteract the problem of actual mitigation supplanting their role if your item level is even a smidge above the minimum.

Consider the fact that WHM and AST have twice as long cooldowns on average for their go-to options and you then see that SCH is the one that’s actually able to deal with actual content the best. Only slightly less powerful oGCDs that are up more is what equates to them having more power budget overall, mathematically speaking. Whether you see it that way or not is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Not having perfect answers to everything is part of what makes a balanced healing kit. That said, Charges on ET solve this ‘problem’ at minimal cost. I’d rather SE actually lean in on the mitigation side and make SCH and SGE GCD shields full on shield potency instead of half and half, mostly to counteract the problem of actual mitigation supplanting their role if your item level is even a smidge above the minimum.

Consider the fact that WHM and AST have twice as long cooldowns on average for their go-to options and you then see that SCH is the one that’s actually able to deal with actual content the best. Only slightly less powerful oGCDs that are up more is what equates to them having more power budget overall, mathematically speaking. Whether you see it that way or not is irrelevant.

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Yes, the not having perfect answers is completely true but I think no one asks gcds to be perfect answers just to be some kind of answer, Sch lacks this in their gcds especially in comparision with SGE (basically sge has hp heals and a "shield" emergency tactics, not exactly 1 to 1 but you get the idea), its like if everyone had a similar first aid kit with scissors and disinfectant while sch had a knife and water. I agree with you that charges on ET would solve it and honestly I'd like to see both SGE and SCH having full shield gcds as it would force healers of said roles to familiarize with the "barrier" thing of barrier healers but I can't see SE going that route.

I'm not saying Sch is lackluster in hps tho, I know the strenghts of the job and how well it can heal, it just that its gcds seemed to be not fit for some of the mechanics in the game and other jobs for no real reason at all and in the context of the rework with ogcd shields being a thing a way to make them into hp to avoid shield stacking problems seems like a must

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

That is one the biggest issues tbh, If what the devs said in the latest LL is true it seems there is none

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Indeed. That hit hard. However, it is possible to spin it in a good way. Especially if you're in the camp who feels that SCH should just be reworked. Reason being is because if they have reached a point where they just don't know what to do with the job anymore, then this usually signals for the rework to happen. Even if SCH wasn't getting all the negative feedback, I think the devs would still arrive at the decision to rework the job. 'The next one in the queue', so-to-speak.

I love the idea of each fairy rod selene and seraphs having four abilities that change with each. Why can’t they give scholars that? Also have summon instacast.

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Originally Posted by glamazon

I love the idea of each fairy rod selene and seraphs having four abilities that change with each. Why can’t they give scholars that? Also have summon instacast.

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I don’t like the idea of healer trances that close off abilities. Isn’t that the complaint of Dissipation, Aetherpact, and Summon Seraph? That using one locks out/contradicts using the other one?

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Originally Posted by ToodlesElNoodles

I don’t like the idea of healer trances that close off abilities. Isn’t that the complaint of Dissipation, Aetherpact, and Summon Seraph? That using one locks out/contradicts using the other one?

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Both Dissipation and Aetherpact are disliked because they deliberately sacrifice one of the most useful and interesting aspects of the job for passive gains. In both cases, several of your more important tools for healing are being disabled, and there's nothing new that you're gaining for that sacrifice. That's not to say that these actions don't have uses, but they feel terrible to use. I don't think anyone dislikes Summon Seraph for that reason, but are maybe frustrated with the potential ghosting issues that can come with Seraph.

The reason being is because the Seraph is not taking away your actions--she's simply upgraded them for a limited time. The reason people want the faeries to be different is because unlike Dissipation and Aetherpact, you're not handicapping a chunk of your kit by having a different faerie, but swapping between different sets of tools that offer different benefits in alternative situations.

One thing I'd love SCH to have is more oGCD barriers. It feels like WHM and AST have a lot of insta-heal/barrier situations while SCH has like... 2? Plus some fairy skills that take a few seconds to actually execute after you pressed them. It'd be nice to have succor as an instant cast or reduced cast.

I'm genuinely pleased to see a sch rework that actually takes into account energy drain removal AND replaces it with something else that actually seems to work at first glance. Barriers are stronger which is good.

Some points to raise:
1. I'm not certain the fey gauge is quick enough at the start of an encounter or after heavy healing phases, unless I'm getting the rotation wrong? Perhaps a button to regain 50 fey gauge?
2. Does the fairy move to fixed positions or stay by you? Does it still have embrace or is it just me being unable to read first thing in the morning
3. Can aetherflow be used outside of combat?
4. no shadowflare :(

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Indeed. That hit hard. However, it is possible to spin it in a good way. Especially if you're in the camp who feels that SCH should just be reworked. Reason being is because if they have reached a point where they just don't know what to do with the job anymore, then this usually signals for the rework to happen. Even if SCH wasn't getting all the negative feedback, I think the devs would still arrive at the decision to rework the job. 'The next one in the queue', so-to-speak.

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Ngl I'm wishing Sch to have low playerbase so that reworks happens soon

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

I'm genuinely pleased to see a sch rework that actually takes into account energy drain removal AND replaces it with something else that actually seems to work at first glance. Barriers are stronger which is good.

Some points to raise:
1. I'm not certain the fey gauge is quick enough at the start of an encounter or after heavy healing phases, unless I'm getting the rotation wrong? Perhaps a button to regain 50 fey gauge?
2. Does the fairy move to fixed positions or stay by you? Does it still have embrace or is it just me being unable to read first thing in the morning
3. Can aetherflow be used outside of combat?
4. no shadowflare :(

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1: Maybe, since the fairy is stronger now didnt want to give a huge amount of fairy gauge so efficiency among those heals is valued, in the first minute a sch could raise up to 60 guage tho (10 from aetherflow, 10 from switch, 10 from recitation with an aetherflow heal, 30 from 3 aetherflow heals), that is something that like potencies would have to be playtested

2: Same as today, we can place it and embrace works like now

3: No, same reason why recitation can't be used too, as its a tool that is a dps gain having it out of combat would make the ideal pull timer way too long

4: Sadge, thought of adding it but wanted to focus on the gcd rotation first