Warrior Suggestion: AOE abilities

After playing all the tanks a fair bit, I noticed that Warriors felt the worst when running wall to wall in dungeons. I suggest a simple reshuffling and renaming of a few abilities that would make the job not only feel a bit more streamlined but just make more sense.

Step 1: Rename Mythril Tempest to Steel Cyclone, rename Steel Cyclone to Mythril Tempest

Step 2: Change AOE combo to Steel Cyclone > Mythril Tempest. Steel to Mythril is a common progression in FF games throughout the series.

Steel Cyclone
Lv. 10 Weaponskill
Range: 0
Radius: 5y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 130 to all nearby enemies

Mythril Tempest
Lv. 40 Weaponskill
Range: 0
Radius: 5y
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to all nearby enemies.
Combo Action: Steel Cyclone
Combo Potency: 200
Combo Bonus: Extends Storm's Eye duration by 30s to a maximum of 60s
Combo Bonus: Increases Beast Gauge by 20

As it stands, Warrior AOE combo is at a distinct disadvantage from the other 3 tanks as their first weaponskill in the combo requires both A) a target and B) is only a cone. This shift of abilities brings all tanks to the same level.

Step 3: Replace the old Steel Cyclone with Overpower, and restore it's original animation.

Overpower
Lv. 45 Weaponskill
Range: 8y
Radius: 8y (cone)
Delivers an attack with a potency of 220 to all enemies in a cone before you.
Beast Gauge Cost: 50

Step 4: Replace Steel Cyclone Mastery with Overpower Mastery
Upgrades Overpower to Decimate.

With these 4 steps, you have a more streamlined AoE combo for warriors that focuses on spinning their axe around them from an aesthetics standpoint. You also have a Beast Gauge combo that upgrades from a cone to a 360 aoe as well. It makes Overpower's cone much less likely to miss as you typically have everything gathered before generating the beast gauge to use it, and in terms of feeling like a visual upgrade, Overpower and Decimate both involve smashing your axe into the ground.

Or, just change Overpower to be a 360 AOE around the Warrior. They did it with Monk's Rock Breaker, there is no reason they couldn't do it here.

Ehhh I rather WAR stay unique with it's AOE. Mythril Tempest just needs to go replaced with a wide rectangular AOE and make it gain 10 gauge in the early levels so Steel Cyclone/Decimate don't just sit on my hotbar looking pretty.

its just my opinion but i think warrior style should be keep like it is, cause if we make all tank works exatally the same, will be like wow classes, all work same losing job identity.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Or, just change Overpower to be a 360 AOE around the Warrior. They did it with Monk's Rock Breaker, there is no reason they couldn't do it here.

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One of the big reasons for these changes is because losing Steel Cyclone's animation but keeping the Overpower one is a travesty. Especially the new Overpower animation.

That's an issue with GNB and DRK, too. GNB gets ammo but nothing to spend it on for aoe. DRK doesn't generate blood and just spams Unleash as they don't even get their 2nd weaponskill until 72.

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Originally Posted by Fellgon

its just my opinion but i think warrior style should be keep like it is, cause if we make all tank works exatally the same, will be like wow classes, all work same losing job identity.

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They would still work different, as they have different resources and abilities. They all have their 1 2 3 combo, they all have their ranged attack, they all have their gap closers. The flavor comes from their secondary resources (or tertiary for DRK).

What is it with all these threads popping up lately about redesigning Overpower? The ability is not only the least of warrior's issues but also completely fine if you stop trying to use it like a circle aoe and play towards it's strengths.

Overpower's cone AOE is fine but I really would like for them to remove the target requirement and made it purely sourced from your character's position and facing. It's frustrating when a mob moves just a hair too far into my character and now I can't use it or if tabbing doesn't go to the target I expect and it's too far to the side or out of range.

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Originally Posted by Tarrick

Overpower's cone AOE is fine but I really would like for them to remove the target requirement and made it purely sourced from your character's position and facing. It's frustrating when a mob moves just a hair too far into my character and now I can't use it or if tabbing doesn't go to the target I expect and it's too far to the side or out of range.

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That's a bad suggestion, as that takes away one of the two ways you use Overpower to pick up trash, either as you run towards them you Overpower, or as you run through you rely on the auto-face to spin your character so you can Overpower the mobs behind you, which can be better as mobs are better grouped more frequently than the former method.

On a side note, no reason not to have an enemy targeted anyways, otherwise you're missing dmg from auto attacks.

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Originally Posted by Tarrick

Overpower's cone AOE is fine but I really would like for them to remove the target requirement and made it purely sourced from your character's position and facing. It's frustrating when a mob moves just a hair too far into my character and now I can't use it or if tabbing doesn't go to the target I expect and it's too far to the side or out of range.

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No it's not fine, this isn't class flavour or any stupidity like that, it's straight up inferior and annoying. Warriors have been years asking for this change, I don't know why is it taking so long...

Inferior is not a word that I would ever have used to describe WAR's AoE gameplay.

There really isn't any add pick-up that you can pull off with a PBAoE that you can't with a conal, but I recognize that it does create a skill differential. Cross-class Flash was a crutch in ARR/Heavensward, and you avoided its use when optimizing if you had the skill to do so.

With AoEs, there tends to be a trade-off between versatility and ease of execution. For example, a placeable AoE (i.e. Salted Earth) is even more flexible than either a conal or PBAoE, but has a much higher skill ceiling to execute without delays, which is why it seems to be slowly devalued and will probably be discontinued next expansion. Most players object to anything that creates a measurable skill differential.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

No it's not fine, this isn't class flavour or any stupidity like that, it's straight up inferior and annoying. Warriors have been years asking for this change, I don't know why is it taking so long...

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Maybe because it is not only completely fine but in certain scenarios superior to circle aoes? Overpower not only has 3 yalms more range but towards the end of the cone it is also 3 yalms wider.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

No it's not fine, this isn't class flavour or any stupidity like that, it's straight up inferior and annoying. Warriors have been years asking for this change, I don't know why is it taking so long...

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Correction, bad warriors and people who don't main it have been asking for it.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

Correction, bad warriors and people who don't main it have been asking for it.

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Correction of correction, anybody who disagrees with your opinion must be bad or don't play the job. You are also allowed to speak for all Warriors.

No arguments required either.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

Correction of correction, anybody who disagrees with your opinion must be bad or don't play the job. You are also allowed to speak for all Warriors.

No arguments required either.

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No need to be salty, I think most people who play this game are bad.

Sign here if you'd like to join the club, it comes with "take Onslaught off the gauge" membership.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

No need to be salty, I think most people who play this game are bad.

Sign here if you'd like to join the club, it comes with "take Onslaught off the gauge" membership.

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Indeed taking Onslaught off the gauge would be a huge quality of life for Warrior.

There's people like you that are really really scared of changes, luckily for me there's few of you, so even if you come here and get a couple likes, SE will eventually change it. Judging by your responses I'm prety sure you also think War rotation is fine and doesn't need more oGCDs to fill the boring rotation, lol.

Have a great day, hopeless being who thinks that can speak for everybody and has the truth of the world <3 (but for some reason you're afraid of changes...?)

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

There's people like you that are really really scared of changes, luckily for me there's few of you, so even if you come here and get a couple likes, SE will eventually change it. Judging by your responses I'm prety sure you also think War rotation is fine and doesn't need more oGCDs to fill the boring rotation, lol.

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Just a quick FYI. You do realize people wanting the AoE cone changed to a circle are in the minority, correct? While yes, no one can truly speak for any given demographic, the reality here is that people that are well versed in the use of the class (and indeed, most of the people who are not) very much like the AoE shape as it is. It provides a great many options that are not available to jobs with purely circular AoEs, and it does so without costing them any opportunities.

There's absolutely no problem in having WAR use purely circular AoEs. SE absolutely loves these sort of suggestions. It's just like designing the newest iteration of Stone 17 for healers. They'd probably just introduce the new spin punch move as a level 83 "upgrade" to Overpower.

Taking Onslaught off the gauge would be yet another clever change. If you kept it as it is, you'd be forced to use it every 10 seconds and wouldn't be able to really use it as a gap closer. If you changed it to become identical to Plunge/Intervene/Rough Divide, you wouldn't be able to use it for a full minute leading into IR, because you'd have to land both charges within the window.

This is very much a case of being careful of what you wish for.

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Originally Posted by Marc-Vigar

Indeed taking Onslaught off the gauge would be a huge quality of life for Warrior.

There's people like you that are really really scared of changes, luckily for me there's few of you, so even if you come here and get a couple likes, SE will eventually change it. Judging by your responses I'm prety sure you also think War rotation is fine and doesn't need more oGCDs to fill the boring rotation, lol.

Have a great day, hopeless being who thinks that can speak for everybody and has the truth of the world <3 (but for some reason you're afraid of changes...?)

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Well now you're just being petty.

Look sir, ultimately you're just asking for more homogeny when tanks have been heavily homogenized already. You'd know this if you actually played them, also I want drastic changes not a different coat of paint.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Maybe because it is not only completely fine but in certain scenarios superior to circle aoes? Overpower not only has 3 yalms more range but towards the end of the cone it is also 3 yalms wider.

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It's still a smaller area of effect than the circular aoe, and is meaningless once the mobs are in your face. So you can hit things slightly farther away, of you just take 2 steps and do a circle faster than you can target/aim.

8y cone = (π8²)/4 =50.265y²
5y circle = π5² = 78.540y²

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Originally Posted by Ashenspire

It's still a smaller area of effect than the circular aoe, and is meaningless once the mobs are in your face. So you can hit things slightly farther away, of you just take 2 steps and do a circle faster than you can target/aim.

8y cone = (π8²)/4 =50.265y²
5y circle = π5² = 78.540y²

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Any tank should be keeping mobs in a group infront of them to the best of their ability anyway, so you will be hitting everything with either AoE pattern anyway. This also makes it easier for casters to find a middle target for maximum coverage and any AoEs that are targetted on the tank won't hinder Melee's as much.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Any tank should be keeping mobs in a group infront of them to the best of their ability anyway, so you will be hitting everything with either AoE pattern anyway. This also makes it easier for casters to find a middle target for maximum coverage and any AoEs that are targetted on the tank won't hinder Melee's as much.

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Of course they should, and I didn't make any claim to the contrary. However, when trying to gather all the mobs while running wall to wall, the circular aoe is simply easier than a targeted, aimed cone.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

That's a bad suggestion, as that takes away one of the two ways you use Overpower to pick up trash, either as you run towards them you Overpower, or as you run through you rely on the auto-face to spin your character so you can Overpower the mobs behind you, which can be better as mobs are better grouped more frequently than the former method.

On a side note, no reason not to have an enemy targeted anyways, otherwise you're missing dmg from auto attacks.

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I didn't say don't target an enemy. I said remove the target requirement from the ability. This would allow it to still cast in the direction that you're facing regardless of where your target is on-screen, giving you full control over it. If you have an enemy on one side of you, you can't simply turn and Overpower enemies on the other side of you without changing targets, which isn't always going to reliably change to the one you expect immediately. The ability feels rather weird to use because at the moment it's a mix of both. It requires a target, but as long as that target is _somewhere_ within the area, you have control over the direction and AoE. So, you can hit stuff off the side but you have to make sure you rotate around and keep your target within the invisible angle to do so.

Perhaps you have better luck with auto-facing, but for me it does weird and unexpected things when I'm trying to move and position so I prefer not to use it. I like having complete control over my character. And while it may work for the situation you cited, it does not resolve the situation that I mentioned. If I were to use auto-facing when trying to use Overpower and my target moved just a bit too far to the side or moved through my model just a bit too much, then my character would turn to face them and use it, potentially not hitting anything else at all and certainly not placing it where I wanted it to go.

A thread suggesting to make all the tanks have the same aoe combos in a forum that wants all the tanks to be different. Disagree with the OP but I also understand that there are newer players so maybe a compromise is to change it to a 180 degree aoe to keep the same feel and range of overpower but make it easier for newer players to pick up mobs. Personally I always wanted OP to be more like Ripper Blast from SO2 and have WAR do more cone/line aoes but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by Tarrick

Perhaps you have better luck with auto-facing, but for me it does weird and unexpected things when I'm trying to move and position so I prefer not to use it. I like having complete control over my character. And while it may work for the situation you cited, it does not resolve the situation that I mentioned. If I were to use auto-facing when trying to use Overpower and my target moved just a bit too far to the side or moved through my model just a bit too much, then my character would turn to face them and use it, potentially not hitting anything else at all and certainly not placing it where I wanted it to go.

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You can turn auto face target off in character config. Its technically useless because back in the day you needed to face your target to auto attack them but since that's no longer the case you don't need to turn it on.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

A thread suggesting to make all the tanks have the same aoe combos in a forum that wants all the tanks to be different. Disagree with the OP but I also understand that there are newer players so maybe a compromise is to change it to a 180 degree aoe to keep the same feel and range of overpower but make it easier for newer players to pick up mobs. Personally I always wanted OP to be more like Ripper Blast from SO2 and have WAR do more cone/line aoes but that's just me.



You can turn auto face target off in character config. Its technically useless because back in the day you needed to face your target to auto attack them but since that's no longer the case you don't need to turn it on.

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Yeah shooting out stalagmites from the ground also lines up with that Warrior NPCs can do.

overpower is fine
its range is far greater and if you want to walk up and Aoe just use Mythril Tempest raw you will generate enough aggro to keep them anyway with how tank stance works now.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

You can turn auto face target off in character config. Its technically useless because back in the day you needed to face your target to auto attack them but since that's no longer the case you don't need to turn it on.

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It's still incredibly useful for things like keeping GCD uptime while moving enemies or during the "look away" gaze mechanic. The big problem however is if you use standard instead of legacy movement because then it simply doesn't work correctly.

When you press W to move forward with legacy movement it will move you towards the direction that your camera is facing, whereas W on standard movement will move your character in the direction that your character is facing. With this in mind the problem becomes obvious, if you try to hit a target behind you while you have auto-facing on and use standard movement you will do a 180° turn and run into the opposite direction.

I'm assuming Tarrick is using the former considering the issues they're having with auto-facing.