I have now almost played the game to level 80 - my first level 80. I really found the game exciting, but something that has been a bit strange throughout my leveling is; - that even though the world is full of mobs and NPCs and despite a really nice weather system, the world seems dead all over! The mobs stand still on the same spot or move only a few steps around, Even though a mob is killed 1 inch away from another mob, that mob don't respond at all! When you fly up in the sky and look down, you can see mobs scattered around for miles, but still it feels almost lifeless! Towns in general are often ghosttown, i was so exited to visit Ishgard, a really cool citadel; - but again.... dead! Today there is maby 100 npc in the main city's, but there should be thousands of npc's in all the main cities, and mobs roaming the area outside; - some mobs roaming in pact's; - even stealthed mobs from time to time, that would be scary to level up alone. Even if places around the world of the game is empty of players(IRL), nothing should feel empty or ghosted! Even if I was the only player on the server, the city's had to be buzzing with people(NPC) and their deeds.
I'm sure there will be more with a different opinion, others who think's the game is 100% perfect, but this is MY opinion; - my experience. I have taken my time in the game and have already played several hundred hours; - so I have a bit of experience and at the same time, a little fresh eyes on the game.
Final Fantasy XIV has otherwise taken me by storm, what a fantastic game and what a fantastic gripping story. Final Fantasy XIV is a wonderful experience, but is certainly not perfect; - and it probably never will be either. I look forward to the 'endgame', waiting anxiously to be surprised; - everyone says that this is where the fun starts!
Sorry I posted here but apparently did not have rights to post in: Website Feedback & Suggestions
Ghosttown's and stupid mobs
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08-11-2021, 10:43 PMMissPagenGhosttown's and stupid mobs
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08-11-2021, 10:59 PMSotaris
Ishgard feels dead cause it never was a hub and HW is like 6 years old content. You also need to progress through ARR to just get to it.
Kugane and kinda dead for same reason, old content and not a hub.
This is why Mor Dhona, Crystalirum, Eulmore still feels active (and the starting cities for other obvious reasons)
Sidenote though, I go there a lot cause I like the place. -
08-11-2021, 11:27 PMEvergrey
This is pretty common in a lot of MMOs. Once people have progressed and outleved an area it comes more or less irrelevant and no use to visit it unless due to farming materials.
And it's for this very reason I enjoy ESO as much as I do.
As they scale each zone with the player no zone becomes irrelevant due to levels and everything is can be gathered everywhere.
So people are free to go anywhere they feel like whenever.
I can find myself just traveling around different maps due to what I wanna experience at the moment.
This isn't something a level-based zones game really can do.
As once you're done there the game doesn't really give you much reasons to go back.
I think more MMOs should give scaling a chance.
But not all MMOs are built with that in mind so ofc it wouldn't work for all.
That the game world feels more or less lifeless is a more tricky thing to do in an MMO.
My take on FFXIVs zones is that they were better back in ARR when flying wasn't a thing.
The maps weren't as big, but they had more character and were fleshed out a lot more.
Now with flying the zones gotta be bigger to compensate the traveling speed of flying.
But with the bigger zones they have (imo) become less fleshed out.
There are big "flat" areas with little to it then some rocks and trees perhaps.
And one can clearly see the reuse of textures on the ground and surroundings.
Really makes it hard to enjoy the view then (imo).
Not gonna say that all zones since HW has been like this.
But there is a clear difference from ARR zones and past ones. -
08-12-2021, 12:10 AMGabadabs
Pretty much the standard in any MMO that releases expac after expac - people move on from older content. If there's nothing keeping people in a hub city, like in Ishgard, then people move on. It's unfortunate but to get people back they'd have to find good reasons to make the zones relevant again.
In terms of the static NPC's and stupid mobs, I always kind of blamed that on engine limitations, although I have no idea if that's true. -
08-12-2021, 01:07 AMkaynide
You're not wrong here. A lot of what I love in Guildwars 2 is that there is random actual voiced chatter as you roam the map/town. Like, there's a guided tour going on in one of the hubs that you could theoretically follow the NPC group and learn something.
There are kids that play tag and run around; there are people that actually have fairly elaborate errands they do. There are also "critters" (level 0, 1 hp animals) like seagulls or rats that just wander around adding life.
Ultimately, it's unnecessary to play the game.. but man it makes a difference. -
08-12-2021, 01:25 AMEvergreyOh yeah, critters.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaynide
Insignificant but they do bring life to the wildlife which otherwise is only based on hostile mobs. -
08-12-2021, 02:13 AMMissPagenSpot ON. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by kaynide
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08-12-2021, 02:32 AMLunalepsyFFXIV is one big lobby.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPagen
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08-12-2021, 05:31 AMDerio
Ishgard feels alive due to all the new players and the firmament. Idyllshire feels alive because most people go there for Khloe and other things. Crystarium can feel very very dead due to it not being a endgame hub, same for Kugane.
Mobs are line of sight. If you want tough mobs go to Eureka or Bozja. The regular areas are mainly for leveling. -
08-12-2021, 05:32 AMDerioPS4 is not the limitation. That falls on server side. Hopefully they raise the minimum PC specs to PS4 this expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo
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08-12-2021, 06:19 AMMissPagenYou have completely misunderstood my text; - I don't mean players (IRL). I think there is a great shortage of NPCs in general in the FF world. I mean, one should feel like the world is alive, even though I'm the only person on the server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derio
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08-12-2021, 06:40 AMNaoki34It must be your first MMO or you were not paying attention to this detail, before.Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPagen
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08-12-2021, 06:41 AMRae88The flip side of this is that people were sharing pictures of the new endzone town, Leyawiin, being absolutely deserted a few weeks after the expansion launch. Literally deserted. As in pictures of no people at all. Granted this was probably during non peak periods, but this was the new expansion. Doing the new expansion zone was extremely underwhelming when nobody was in the expansion zone a few weeks after launch. They all went digging for water nodes, or back to hanging out in Vvardenfell's crafting center, or maybe back to the Reach. That to me was extremely disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergrey
EDIT: Oh yeah, the lack of NPCs in Leyawiin also contributed to it feeling ... actually, ACTUALLY empty without players.
ESO has every zone relevant but there's far too many people spread out over so many zones. You meet far more people in FFXIV leveling, even without ESO megaservers, and you don't get the huge crowd of people flocking to do the new expansion content. There were more people hanging out in Eulmore last month, 2 years after the last expansion launched, than I could see in Leyawiin's hub less than a month into the new expansion and that was horrible.
Here is a picture of ESO's new expansion Hub TEN DAYS into launch - https://i.imgur.com/CpC6zdJ.png
Taken from this thread here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...wood-a-flop/p3
More people did tend to hang out in the crafting areas, but that's not sustainable because most people head back to Vivec to do their crafting because it's quicker, and there's no loading screen between them and the bank. So yeah, Blackwood ... empty as all get out. Was extremely, extremely disappointed. -
08-12-2021, 08:00 AMEvergreyTrue, the players are spread out more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rae88
But imo that just adds to the feeling of a living world.
Sure, a buzzling endgame hub in a new expansion feels lively.
But what about the rest of the game where zones are now deserted since it's no longer relevant.
I enjoy traveling around and see people wherever I go instead of just all gathered in a handful of carefully selected locations due to it being relevant to endgame.
And yeah, Leyawiin was pretty empty on people in a week after launch.
I was actually surprised by it myself, I quite enjoy that zone.
But one has to remember that the expansion was only 1 map which honestly could be done in a few days without even grinding it.
So I'm not surprised that once people bombrushed it, as we know people love to rush new content and then complain there's nothing to do, people left to do whatever they felt like doing.
And you gotta remember that Eulmore is still where you trade in all the endgame stuff like Tomes, tokens etc so it's still a relevant endgame hub, where Leyawiin is just another town added with nothing special to it than any other town.
No game can tend to everyones fancy, but I enjoy ESO for the feeling of freedom the world has where one can travel where ever when ever without restrictions and how living it feels with how detailed the maps are and all the NPCs walking around and the random encounters one can see while just exploring.
And I enjoy FFXIV for the good story telling and the more structured pace the combat has.
No game is perfect, so I'm playing different games for different reasons and have found a balance I enjoy through it. -
08-12-2021, 08:17 AMNeoyoshi
I think it depends on the server really; some places are more livelier then others because a particular server will have many large groups of people who focus their daily activities in certain places.
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08-12-2021, 08:17 AMRae88The problem is you don't really, because there's not enough players to populate zones wherever you go. So you see a handful of locations populated, base game cities like Auridon, Crafting hubs like Vivec, anywhere an event is currently going on, places like The Reach currently, and whole swathes of maps which aren't populated like starting islands (great for picking nodes because few people are usually around with a couple of exceptions and they're tightly packed) Northern Elswyr, Bangkorai, even Coldharbour is pretty deserted. I don't recall seeing many people in Rivenspire, Western Skyrim, Wrothgar (though it became popular for a couple of weeks when TamrielTradeSecrets showed a treaure chest loop to pick up gear you could sell for midyear mayhem, but otherwise pretty deserted) and others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergrey
Edit: Clockwork city outside an event. I mean sure, there's a few people hanging around ... the Brass Fortress I think it's called? Maybe cause of the transmute station. But try and do the darn world bosses, nobody's there :(
Edit 2: Auridon not Alinor. Whoops -
08-12-2021, 09:14 AMTheMightyMollusk
Nobody tell Spirit Halloween about all these abandoned buildings.
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08-12-2021, 04:31 PMMissPagenI am 56 and have played(tryed) ALL MMO in the market since 1990. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoki34
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08-12-2021, 05:06 PMPayadopa
In termsoverworld design Guild Wars 2 gives XIV a run for its money, hands down.
The big flaws with MMOs in general is that people are so used to bad ones. If they had bad stories -> 'What do you expect, it's an MMO. Duh.' If the zones are boring -> 'Who cares, all I care about is eNdGaMe'
So on an so forth.
I really appreciate that XIV fleshes out its world more but, let's be honest here, the overworld is really lacking. -
08-12-2021, 05:10 PMJandorOne of the things that I like in ARR that I don't recall seeing in the expansions, some of the mobs aren't automatically hostile. Animals like the antelopes and stuff will just mind their own business unless you attack them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergrey
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08-12-2021, 05:12 PMKageTokage
It is rather silly that everything in the expansions is hostile regardless of what kind of creature it is.
Even enemy types that are normally passive in ARR areas are suddenly murderous when you run into them in HW onwards. -
08-12-2021, 05:20 PMTeraRamis
At some point, there's going to need to be a sequel. That's all there is to it. I know people rage at that idea, but the hardware has moved on; MMORPG design in general is rapidly evolving. We don't require a replacement yet, but we will - because, quite simply, the engine this thing was built on wasn't that hot to begin with, and what SE can do with the product is inherently limited by the capabilities of the PS4.
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08-12-2021, 05:22 PMkaynideThis is another thing that is on point. If the devs wanted the world to be a generally safe place or to be “safe”, they should just not have mobs idling around like they do. Like sure put a few packs of danger like the raptor nest in blackshroud…but most of the mobs might as well just be passive critters. It just doesn’t make sense to have a town built right next to the giant murder plant spider ladies.Quote:
Originally Posted by KageTokage
Especially if eventually the mobs are gonna ignore you anyway once you are over leveled for the zone.
Again, something guildwars does reasonably well is monster placement generally makes sense…albeit at a loss of monster variety in a particular zone. -
08-12-2021, 05:34 PMPayadopaI'm still hoping for another calamity or a time skip come 7.x. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by TeraRamis
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08-12-2021, 06:20 PMSotarisWhen what, going to complain PS5 holds the game back when the fact is they still have to cater to low spec pc's. PS4 isn't what holds back the development or innovation of this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo
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08-12-2021, 07:37 PMEvergreyYeah, it is inevitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraRamis
Nothing lasts forever and sooner or later things will have to move on. -
08-12-2021, 08:11 PMStriderShinryu
I will say that more mobs that aren't immediately aggro would be nice, as would some more aggro mobs and a return to linking mobs in the overworld. It was a small thing in one selected place, but I also really liked the mobs in Tempest that actually attacked each other. It's not a big thing but that sort of diversity is a low key way to just make the overworld feel a little more alive.
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08-12-2021, 10:35 PMWilford111I don't know about that. Isn't it up to the game designers to make a game fun? You could have the best engine in the world but it won't mean anything if the design sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraRamis
I personally don't think FFXIV needs to "evolve" or "catch up" with it's competition. I think there is a constant room for improvement, but nothing drastic. -
08-12-2021, 10:53 PMLarirawiel
That's a thing i also don't like in FF14. The open world feels dead, artifical and is an absolute immersion killer, IMHO. It will be sligtly better in the later expansions but even Everquest was way better in the term of open world. I find WoW vanilla/classic has the best immersive open world design.
Cheers -
08-12-2021, 11:25 PMCatwho
FATES are supposed to be what brings life to the otherwise static overworld. So you will see NPCs traveling, or groups of unusual mobs descending from elsewhere, etc. FATE chains especially are little mini storylines unique to the zone that are told through big scale battles. As for why you don't see tons and tons of NPCs doing stuff like tilling the fields or traveling, outside of the FATES, the lore reason is that the monsters make it dangerous to travel or farm in many places, so it only happens in well guarded (read: low level) areas.
Could they have done it better? In 2021 with modern technology, absolutely. I've seen some amazing procedurally generated landscapes in modern game engines that look amazing and the same stuff could be applied to anything - monsters, NPCs, beast tribes, other adventurers. For 2013 tech, the FATE system (itself any evolution of a proto system from FF9 if I remember right) was an elegant solution that immediately displays "something different is here" on the overworld map. -
08-12-2021, 11:34 PMEvergreyThing with FATEs to me that doesn't make it feel like it brings life to the overword is that it's still staged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwho
They spawn on the same locations and are more or less a small temporary quest where you gotta do something to complete it.
In ESO there are random encounters that aren't quest or relevant at all.
Like you can walk on a road and come across 2 NPCs arguing and when talking to them you gotta decide which one you agree with to solve that argument.
It's only a small conversation but adds life to the overworld where NPCs are living their own lives.
And then we simply got random things one can find.
Like I found a skeleton in a chair once with an arrow in his head and a letter next to it saying something like "no one screws me other and gets away with it".
there are a lot of random things in the overworld that adds life that tells a tale.
FFXIV overworld is extremely scripted with little small things to find that isn't tied to a quest in a way or another.
And it's this scripted feeling that makes the FFXIV world so lifeless to me.
Not much is put in FFXIV unless it has a direct connection to something.
Side Note, I know I bring out ESO for a comparison a lot.
But that is simply that it's an MMO I've played for years lately so my memory and impression of that game is still fresh. -
08-13-2021, 12:12 AMkaynideThis is another general failure of the FATE system I feel. The chains are really lackluster outside of a very few specific examples. I mean it's a good idea on paper. But in game...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwho
I mean, yeah I wanna help people... but it's kinda hard to want to help when there's no one there. Why am I killing random mobs in the middle of the desert where nobody is anyway?
The FATE system itself I always felt was a good attempt at something Guildwars' had an entire year prior.
I've said this more or less in other posts, so apologies if it looks familiar!
The big differences are:
1) In GW2, they are generally more fun to do, or more interactive.
2) You never have to sync level, which honestly is 1/2 the reason I just don't fates. I have to stop everything I'm doing, push a button, then get into it..and god forbid I step outside the blue area. (GW's entire zones are level sync'd with several different level ranges in different parts of the same zone)
3) There's at least 3 ways to complete a GW2 event, so if I don't wanna fight the bad guys, I don't have to. I can instead, I dunno, put out fires.
4) There is also just more variety in general. -
08-13-2021, 12:33 AMCatwho
I suspect the reason that entire overworld zones aren't synced down is because people are doing other things there, and getting forced to drop to level 60 just because you're there to kill a mob for a level 80 quest would get massively annoying. It means the monsters would become aggressive again.
I set Level Sync to a macro and just mash it when I start up, so I barely even notice it. -
08-13-2021, 12:36 AMkaynide
Oh yeah, it's really apples and oranges to be honest.
The world of Guild Wars is always dangerous, and even a big giant monster boss in a level 1-10 zone is just gonna be level 10. There simply aren't creatures outside the range. But it does mean that as long as I'm in a certain zone, and I'm leveled over it, I can still do things and get meaningful gains and/or engage in everything the zone has to offer.
In GW2 having a higher level doesn't really mean anything other than "Has access to more zones/activities".