Preface: I don't think SMN needs to be changed, I just like thinking about these things.
SMN currently has an identity crisis. On one hand it has permanent summons as pets. On another it has giant awesome summons for a short time on cds. On a third hand (yes SMN has three hands it's a mess) it has dots.
Now I love me some dots but they're not summons (though summons are indeed dots). I love dots so much I'd like to see a new job based entirely around them, so that's what I propose: Take the dot package from SMN, make it into a new job, and fill the void with moar summons while also making the summons more analogous.
Summoner
- Bio, Miasma, Fester, Bane, Painflare, Tri-Disaster, Energy Drain and Siphon - all gone.
- Replace with new abilities that have something to do with summons.
- Less mobile but has new summons to help get around (Atomos portal?).
- Permanent egis are lame, demis are better. Therefore all summons shall be demis to some degree, but will still call the small ones egis because it's easier.
- Demis still need to be way better than egis.
- Make trance more awesome.
- Moar primals.
Egis:
- 1 min cd, 30s duration.
- Have about 6 total to choose from - 2 single target dps (melee/ranged), 2 aoe dps (same), 1 "tank", 1 "heal".
- Add an Assault ability, give extra utility to some of the egis. Since they must be rotated we'll have more freedom to use one for a shield or speed boost or what have you.
- Active egis apply a small alteration to our core abilities. (Slight change in animation/color, bonus damage of a certain type, etc.)
Trance:
- Consumes active egi to use.
- Rather than reducing cast time by 2.5s, reduce it and our gcd by 1.5s.
- Casting spells raises a new trance meter.
- Trance meter can be spent on Deathflares and/or a big demi summon depending on how many casts you get in and what you need at the time.
- If you don't use trance on a demi summon the cd of trance is reduced (in such a way that overall dps is better if you do summon a demi).
- Trance ends either when you summon a demi or after 15s. OR duration is dependent on the sacrificed egi's duration.
- Should be able to summon a demi easily within 10s or Deathflare in 5s, if you're really good and plan ahead by saving ogcds you could maybe get a second Deathflare.
Demis:
- When your trance meter is full you'll have a choice of at least 3 demis to summon which could replace your egis to save bloat.
- Each demi has a cd so you have to rotate between at least two of them.
- All demis have a big effect upon summon.
- Active demis change your core abilities and your rotation, like Phoenix does now but more and they're all a bit different.
- Might be cool if the demis replaced the character entirely.
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New DoT Job
For starters we yank the SMN's abilities and expand Aetherflow into something bigger and better. Also moar dots. I would like to see a UI improvement that shows dots and their durations on enemies as well.
- 2 gcd dots: 1 with a cast time, 1 without.
- 2 ogcd dots, one with a short cd.
- Tri-Disaster applies 3 dots - all above except the ogcd with a cd. (Because it's called Tri-Disaster.)
- Bane functions the same, spreads all 4 dots.
- Bring Shadow Flare back.
- Most "mobile" caster thanks to dots always ticking but is slow and has phases where it really needs to stay still.
- Aetherflow caps at 5 and can be obtained from dot ticks as well as Energy Siphon.
- 1 Aetherflow can still be spent on Fester or Painflare but Painflare scales with dots.
- 3 Aetherflow can be spent on a new extremely potent dot (not spread by Bane or applied by Tri-Disaster).
- Channeled filler spells and a powerful cd or two.
- Cd to let you apply two copies of your dots to a target (because single target with dot classes can get very boring).
- Could also have a way to gain buffs for snapshotting but that might get too messy.
- As for the other spells, they could simply be short cds (in the 6-12s range) to be used whenever available that potentially reset Energy Siphon.
That's a good enough base. It definitely takes a bit from MoP's Shadow Priest because that was super fun. None of the casters in FFXIV have an unpredictable Dancer-like rotation so this job could fill that void. Dots can get pretty dull to maintain on their own so a bit of chaos would suit them well, and it would be fun to manage dots in addition to figuring out which spells to cast at any given time.
Splitting SMN in Two
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06-22-2021, 06:06 PMTulzschaSplitting SMN in Two
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06-22-2021, 07:05 PMVyrerus
New DoT job basically described BRD with two more DOTs. You want to play BRD. It's DOTs with chaos.
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06-23-2021, 03:25 AMExodus-E
Oh boy, another set of terrible ideas for "fixing" Summoner (while ignoring established lore).
Let's see here...
The Summoner job was conceptualized as an "anti-Primal" discipline by the Allagans, thus doesn't actually summon Primals but rather uses their essences/powers against them (in the form of constructs and powered up "states").Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
With that in mind, it wouldn't be able to use the power of voidsent (such as Atomos) because they are not Primals.
Subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
Especially since we still haven't seen what the Egis of other Primals would look like.
Once again, Summoner doesn't summon actual Primals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
Unless you meant more summon variety (which we were promised with the overdue Egi glamour system), in which case, I agree.
And there's a good reason for that: because it's not what their (sub) role is about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
Physical Ranged DPS, on the other hand, are meant to be (far) more mobile and bring more overall utility to the entire party, in exchange for lower damage (be it by raw numbers or by having a "random rotation").
Turning SMN into one with a "random rotation" would make it much weaker compared to what we have now (especially compared to other casters), so it's a hard disagree from me. -
06-23-2021, 05:10 AMKeramory
I still don't know why we need to split them. I know everyone talks about SMN either being 2.0 FFXIV or FFXI... but you can have both.
I think an easer solution is to have your summons/egis represent all your spells, period. The summons can cast primarily dot spells under their animations with the occasional giant nuke spell at the end of a particular rotation.
I never understood why me, as the character, need a book to cast Bio to begin with. I thought my book was to cast egis/summons. The only thing I should be doing is telling my summon what to do. Like it casting some variant of Bio for me. -
06-23-2021, 06:19 AMDyvid
{Thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass.}
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06-23-2021, 10:20 AMWarlyxtbh the bites arent even fun anymore , u use it on pull or if boss goes away /yawn iron jaws should apply and refresh dots come endwalker .Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrerus
smn are the same , with tri resetting u barely have to refresh dots and u can swiftcast miasma + bio there u go , not interesting at all -
06-23-2021, 01:50 PMTulzschaNot trying to "fix" anything as said at the start of my post, they're just ideas. Calm down, no need to be so rude. I find it fun to come up with designs and I posted them in case anyone else is the same way, that's all. It's not like it's going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus-E
Fair. Atomos was a summon in other FF games and that's the first thing that came to mind in regards to a summon that could offer mobility to the caster.Quote:
[SMN] wouldn't be able to use the power of voidsent (such as Atomos) because they are not Primals
Yep, that was an intentionally brusque comment. To elaborate, permanent egis don't feel as impactful as temporary demi summons. They cheapen the idea of summoning a bit, as summons in FF have traditionally been big dramatic events.Quote:
"Permanent egis are lame" - Subjective.
Especially since we still haven't seen what the Egis of other Primals would look like.
Yes, though the glamour system is apparently not coming for a while.Quote:
Once again, Summoner doesn't summon actual Primals.
Unless you meant more summon variety (which we were promised with the overdue Egi glamour system), in which case, I agree.
Quote:
And there's a good reason for that: because it's not what their (sub) role is about.
Physical Ranged DPS, on the other hand, are meant to be (far) more mobile and bring more overall utility to the entire party, in exchange for lower damage (be it by raw numbers or by having a "random rotation").
Turning SMN into one with a "random rotation" would make it much weaker compared to what we have now (especially compared to other casters), so it's a hard disagree from me.
Oi. First of all I wasn't talking about SMN here, it was for a potential dot-based caster, and a caster that relies heavily on damage over time effects would have some inherent amount of mobility thanks to the nature of said effects. This job in my mind would offer little to no utility and would still need to cast or channel for optimal dps. I don't see why casters can't be unpredictable though.
Yeah that would certainly make SMNs more summony and would give an excuse to have more summon variety in one way or another. Personally I just like the idea of a new dot-based caster (which we know isn't coming any time soon if ever). But how would dots from summons work? Would it be the same as now with different flavor or require a certain summon to be active? Would they always be available? What about Fester, Aetherflow, or Bane?Quote:
Originally Posted by Keramory
As for the book I believe it's just a way to cast spells in general. BLM and RDM use mediums, Arcanists use books which allows for but is not limited to summoning. -
06-24-2021, 04:36 AMEquitable_Remedy
Definitely thought that this thread was about something else...
... carry on. -
06-24-2021, 06:45 AMNYCLouisGamerYou pervert :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy
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06-24-2021, 11:20 AMAriel_Valmont
Although it has some minor nit picks SMN is a great job that plays well at every level of content (synced/current) stop trying to get the devs to give it the MNK treatment and gut it to a shell if it’s former self.
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06-26-2021, 02:34 AMSeraphor
Yeah, you don't need to make a new DOT class. Just prune some of SMNs DOTs and replace them with summon or summon related skills.
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06-26-2021, 03:55 AMdezzmontDon't even need to do that really. SMN just badly needs a 'visual overhaul.' The Egi is a pretty big part of your DPS and has high potency, its just that visuals matter way more than actual potency for job feel (Which can be quite useful: barrage is a big DPS boost for bard but isn't an important part of its identity or optimization compared to using its songs correctly, so despite barrage granting you an extra 230 potency over a fully charged pitched perfect, pitch perfect is visually way more impressive in order to make it clear that is what bard is 'about') and most of the egi's animations are very low key 'basic attacks' that are almost invisible in a fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
Egi assault just needs to turn your egi into a demi to shoot an ability out for ya (with no change in functionality otherwise, besides being made more responsive obviously) to 'fix summoner.' The problems with SMN that make it a 'pain point' job are ones of job fantasy failing to be delivered, not through mechanics. In fact, I would say mechanically the cycle of building up trances to get 'super spells' is probably the best way to implement a FF style summoner in an MMO because summons are often actually just fancy limit breaks, so the job having a 'private LB gauge' it is fighting to fill while its doing a lot of its DPS via dots fits quite well. Its just that SMN as a job visually undersells the SMN aspects so hard that is a problem. -
06-26-2021, 07:16 AMSeraphorSMN has always had an identity problem with DOTs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzmont
The problem with having so many DOTs as your main form of damage is that they all have to be ridiculously weak individually so you're not completely OP.
SMN has TWO DOTs, plus Egis, which are another more elaborate DOT.
Just axe one of the regular DOT spells already so that summons can actually be somewhat impactful. -
06-26-2021, 09:42 AMDyvid
Summoner doesn't have an "identity crisis"; a few people just don't like the identity.
All damage is "Damage over time" it just depends on how it is used. BLM has massive Burst damage while Summoner has death by 1000 cuts and Red Mage lives somewhere in between. Remove all the visuals of a job and you'll notice that the dummy is taking slow big hits from one, faster milder hits from another, and a steady stream of hits from the other. -
06-26-2021, 07:02 PMdezzmontIts mechanical identity is sublime. Its thematic identity is... baaaaaad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
Its bad. Lets not mince words. SMN's visuals and ties to its fantasy (both in the greater Final Fantasy series, and in universe where pretty much every Egi we encounter is way cooler than ours despite Egis being 'the point') is really bad. I suspect almost all of the complaints about SMN would vanish overnight if it solved the '2.0 visuals' problem. Its sorta up there with Monk in how bad the visuals and impact of their abilities hold back the job.
This is an interesting thought experiment because, yeah, if you removed all visuals a lot of jobs people really like might do a lot worse, and vice versa. Like BLM is probably safe despite Fire IV being one of the most satisfying spells in terms of 'impact' in the game, but BRD comes to mind as a job that does a lot of 'heavy lifting' with visual flair. And heck, people might actually like MNK a lot more once its not dragged into the dirt by how not visually rewarding its main mechanics are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
And that isn't a trivial or petty complaint. Visual design is a key element of game design, and its a huge part of the FF series overall. And summoner is a super iconic job. Summoner. Not SMN. I think Summoner could exist in SMN, but right now it doesn't, and a lot of discussions by SMN mains seem to admit this as if it isn't a big problem that puts the entire mechanical identity of SMN at risk, because I don't believe the devs would preserve SMN, the job from one game, over Summoner, the iconic FF job that utilizes some of the most iconic abilities in the series.
Again, I think most of the 'SMN is actually not really a Summoner at all" complaints come from how bad the job is at conveying what is actually happening with your egi and egi assaults and how clunky those feel. I am hoping the overhaul is just that, but considering the Egi mechanically doesn't exist for most purposes besides weird cast delays and pre-setting the AoE for Devotion I suspect it will be more substantial. -
06-27-2021, 02:33 AMTulzschaThe point is that SMN has two different ideas going on at the same time: summons and the Miasma/Bio/Fester/etc. package. And while yes spamming Ruin deals damage over time Ruin is not a damage over time spell, those are specifically spells like Bio that put a debuff on an enemy and deal damage... over time, without any additional input from the caster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
Yes SMN is very fun to play (imo) which is the most important thing. Thematically the dots have nothing to do with the summons and egis look, feel, and are weak. When you think "Summoner" you think someone who summons things to deal with enemies for them and we don't really do that. The vast majority of our damage comes from Ruin, dots, and Fester. Egis exist more to enable Ruin IV than anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzmont
Before demi summons came along we were essentially Warlocks with a different name. And I'm cool with that, I like Warlocks, but they're not Summoners. Now that we have Bahamut and Phoenix we're starting to feel more like actual Summoners but much of our kit is cut off from them both mechanically and thematically. -
06-27-2021, 03:35 AMdezzmontits interesting for you to say that Egis are weak but Demis are strong when Egis are more damage output than either Demi (though, admittedly not both). For perspective, apparently the output of the egi is on par with the output of Bard's song mechanics of Bloodletter and Pitch Perfect, and this is ignoring Ruin IV entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
They aren't weak at all, they are as strong as many job's 'main' mechanics, its just that they are visually so terribly designed most people wouldn't ever notice because you get so little visual impact from hitting an egi assault button it feels like nothing, despite it actually being a weavable 250 potency (ok, pet scaling being what it is, probably 200) attack, which is extremely strong for a weave and you having the ability to hit that weave every 15 seconds.
Dots make sense for summoner in a few ways thematically (For example, carbuncle in FF is historically a DOT summon, so them being our first """"Summon"""" despite lorewise not being a summon makes it work a bit better), and they aren't actually detracting that much from the Egi. Its just that the Egi, again, looks so freakin baaaaaaad. Its on par with Bootshine in terms of hiding how much its actually doing for you and creating a very lackluster feel to them.
I personally think the fact we DON'T have Demis up all the time is important to the mechanical feel of SMN AND making it feel like a summoner. Summoners in FF overall don't just 'have' their summons, they are in the games generally either that game's limit-break system and are character specific (ex: Snow in FF13 summons Shiva), are super spells that have huge charge times or mana costs (Ex: 6 and 7), or are a character's 'ultimate ability' that override's the party and is not meant to be generally used because it has serious weaknesses (ex: FFX). The concept of 'charging up' the demi via trances and mostly fighting personally is actually EXTREMELY FF summoner, and while its kinda bad there isn't a good thematic link between dreadwyrm trance into summoning Bahumat (and maybe holding dreadwyrm aether should give you a little glow to make it more clear you 'charged up' the summon), it actually makes a lot of sense thematically and mechanically the summoner has to 'earn' Bahumat and Phoenix (and, if we ever get egi-glams, maybe other glammed demis as well, so its more clear a demi is just a 'powered up' egi).
This is why I am not a fan of proposed SMN reworks despite generally sitting in the 'Actually no SMN is in a really bad spot right now.' It MECHANICALLY feels a LOT like a summoner! Its just that what the visuals prioritize and creates in game doesn't at all.
Its just that nuance is hard and language is imprecise and 'The character animations undersell what is happening too much' is a really fiddly opinion that no one is going to naturally reach unless they just happen to look and go 'hey wait Flaming Crush and Crimson Cyclone are actually a LOT of potency that come off cooldown VERY fast, despite the animations being so downplayed I can't even see them while looking for them and it feeling like nothing happens besides me getting Ruin IV when I hit this button." -
06-27-2021, 03:06 PMTulzschaWhen you completely ignore uptime sure Egis deal more damage than Demis. They're still weaker. It's not all about visuals, the fact that they're out all the time makes them less meaningful and the fact that their abilities are ogcd makes them feel unimpactful. Like you said with Demis, it's important that they're not out all the time and I don't think we should always have a Demi out because those are special moments, but we could bring up the Egis a bit and make them more special.Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzmont
The main reasons I like the idea of a rotating Egi system are to add more variety, utility, and interactions with summons to the job. We would still always have an Egi out but they could at least do something cool upon summon so they're less of an afterthought, only to be utilized in between the "important" spells (as spells on the gcd have more weight to them).
I do really like the idea of putting more emphasis on Trance again to make summons feel more impactful as stated in my first post here, and if our lesser summons could be involved in the process rather than temporarily discarded in favor of something stronger, all the better.
Also I've always known Carbuncle to cast Reflect on the party, not sure where it being a dot summon comes from. (FFXI maybe? Haven't played that one.) -
06-27-2021, 06:03 PMdezzmontYes, if your talking about burst damage, demis are weaker. However uptime does NOT make abilities less special or worse. Fire 4 is probably the best visual design of any spell in the game and single handedly makes black mage feel amazing because you get to do this awesome spell ALL THE TIME. Monk rarely gets to use Forbidden Chakra but it still feels like trash because the spell looks like trash. Its a question of how good the ability feels to use, not how often you get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
The problem is not 'you always have egis.' Trust me, as a former Black Mage main, its very possible for you to always be able to do something and it still feeling great every time due A++ visual and sound design. If egi assaults had the exact animations and sounds of fire 4 and flare instead of their current assaults, with the exact same mechanics and potencies, people would not be complaining Egis felt pointless. You can watch a GIF of those spells and feel powerful. Same with Fell Cleave, same with Akh Morn, or even Apex Arrow (An ability most bards actively don't like mechanically! But you can't deny it looks cool and feels cool to fire even if it actively mucks with the job!).
While I agree with the goal of making Egis more impactful and 'present' forcibly rotating egis on the summoner and making un-summoning them a frequently payed cost is such a bad idea, as is forcing the summoner to 'stance change' what their egis do. It leans even harder on the ability of pets to rapidly act, and scuttles egi glamming once and for all, which is awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
Also, as many others have said, Bard exists and already does this 'change between 3 stances that alter their abilities' thing. Its just not a good idea and it doesn't actually address the problems of SMN.
What does this system legitimately add to SMN mechanically other than a lot of tedium, when what you are trying to do is make the presence of egis noticable, which, again, is almost entirely a spell animation issue that has nothing to do with mechanics (because, trust me, its SUPER noticeable when the SMN doesn't use egi assault. Again, on par with BRD just not bothering to use pitch perfect ever).
It was from XI, as well as its first appearance in V as an enemy. Bio is sorta on again off again a signature spell of Carbuncle, and I can see a 6 style 'your summons also teach you spells' angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
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06-28-2021, 12:24 AMDyvidSo I agree with Dezzmont on this. Everyone views Egi as weak because of the visual design, not the DPS it's produces. There is actually combat data on unmentioned sites where you can see how much DPS the pets do. Also, I'm not sure why you keep calling Egi DoTs. They are, for a better word, a NPC that auto attacks but require input from Summoner to perform actions. Currently Summoner DPS splits between 65-70% player 30-35% pet. I would personally like to see a 50/50 split but I understand that the job does have the "mobility tax"; yes after doing relic grind in 50/60/70 24man raids again the job is very mobile because of DoTs, commanding Egi while moving, and instant cast from Trance. In fact the only spells you have to hard cast is Ruin and miasama on occasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulzscha
But back to Dezz's point, if you replaced Garuda and Ifrit with say FFXI Avatars, most of the Egi complaints would die down.
As for the DoT complain, the real problem is SMN has too many mechanics that have built up over the years; DoTs, Aetherflow, Trance, Egi's, Demi's, Ruin Mage. Some of the stuff needs to be pruned or combined. DoT's have been apart of SMN since 2.0 but has been diminished over the years (old players will remember this: Miasama, Bio, Bio II, Shadowflare). DWT, Demi Bahamut; FWT + Demi Phoenix showcase another issue on how disjointed things have become in 5.XX. Aetherflow is another as it feels like a relic as well. Removing DoTs isn't really going to help Egi's feel better nor would adding them to a rotation Trance thing because people will still be put off by the design. Plus that would cut into the already established Trance rotation the job already has.
But the reality is SE has most likely finished their Summoner 6.0 design and all we can do is sit and wait for it to be reveled to the public. -
06-28-2021, 11:48 AMFlanaI would infinitely rather have the current egis over the plastic action figures that just slide around. Not to mention just model swapping would do nothing for the major source of complaints, which is ability ghosting. If you want to solve that immediately, Demi pets have to go. Forced petswaps force in so much more jank than the egi's ever had before Stormblood. Not to mention this is a problem endemic to demis. If you deleted egis you would still have ghosting issues because the demi is a hard swap once the timer runs out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
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06-28-2021, 02:56 PMdezzmontI don't think its a modeling problem. Heck, even the model's animations themselves are quite decent. Its more effects and what the animations are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
Ifrit's base attack, for example, would actually be a pretty rad mid-grade melee attack (Like an upgraded rotation, or a minor oGCD). Its a cool side slash with a flame effect, just look at it!
But its actually going to look more like this. Or... worse, imagine like 3 other melee going ham on that dummy and also your casting spells too.
What would be an awesome ability for a samurai to cast looks terrible for a caster or ranged, because the jobs have different needs. For them, the animation needs to read clear and well from a distance and have a lot of impact. This is the case for their assaults too. Flaming Crush is... kinda an explosion? But its a melee sorta explosion, like inner release.
Caster and ranged 'impact animations' are subtly different than melee ones. Their particle effects are more 'busy' because the focus isn't on a character doing something awesome like screaming into the air Inner Release style, and they tend to 'rise' higher as a rule so you can see them. If you look at fire 4, deathflare, xenoglosy, pitch perfect, ect, you notice they try to fly over the 'melee line' so they aren't obstructed, or are giant pillars that you will definitely see. A subtle and clever method of making sure your cool spells aren't easily obstructed by your Warrior.
Only Inferno is really appropriate for a 'caster animation' and even then its sorta minor, and your character doesn't do too much. It would be nice for say... egi assault 1 or 2, but your capstone on a 2 minute cooldown? No way.
This is why I think an animation pass is so necessary. A lot of the animations would work fine for a melee and were designed from that perspective without really thinking of how they look to the summoner and how they fit into caster/ranged animations, which go out of their way to 'go high.' Which is really cool and clever and subtle design you might not notice unless your looking for it, and which is absent noticably from the egi.
In my opinion, the fix is admitting egi movement management is silly and only exists to let you pre-place devotion's AOE and to make some of your egi-centered AOEs frustratingly miss sometimes. Biting the bullet and making it your pokemon that follows you around and does ALL its attacks at range by your side frees you up to basically intertwine its cast animations with yours and allows you to design its 'impact' animations as caster/ranged animations, and get rid of all the pet control jank. -
06-28-2021, 03:03 PMAnhra
I like the Idea posted by the OP.
Some of the Skills which SMN loses, such as the DoT skills, fester, bane as well as the Ruin Spells should be given to SCH, maybe not with the same potencies, but it would clearly make the job more interesting, as it is now.
As for Egis, i think a good way to design them would be to give them a "enrage bar" that fills up during combat, as long as the egi is out, once it "enrages", it can take its demi-form for a limited time and gets a new set of skills. In order to properly balance this, it would require Egis to be killable again (as well as updating the way they are controlled). The Demi Summon also gets additional stats such as increased HP and stats befitting its Role. -
06-29-2021, 12:22 PMFlanaThis only introduces even more ghosting points because now the kit has dramatically increased the amount of forced pet swaps instead of just every ~60 and ~80 seconds. You can lose abilities going into the phase and you can lose abilities going out of the phase. Also pets taking damage has never been an engaging mechanic because its either useless chip damage or the pet gets one shot, and in the latter case that could cause even more resetting problems in the job if the bar dies when the pet does, which is how similar mechanics already work for them (such as Garuda and Titan AoEs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhra
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06-29-2021, 02:02 PMAnhraThere are plenty of other MMOs out there far older than FFXIV, which did a far better job not only designing classes, but also Summoner Classes with killable Pets, i am certain IF Squeenix would properly put their mind into it, they could pull it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flana
Back then during SB, Egis didn't had proper Defense values added to them, and Summoner clearly doesn't had and has, many skills in managing/controlling them in general, but Tanking with Titan did worked for certain content like deep dungeons (and Ramuh, from what ive heard in HW, but that again, was Squeenix failing to properly balance the job).
A killable (and more importantly, targetable) Summon could also add alot of variety many people dont think about at first. Selene/Eos for example, could greatly boost SCH range of influence with adlo + deployment tactics, just by standing at the right place, at the right time, that kind of gameplay element is something SMN should have.