Splitting SMN in Two

[Tulzscha]

Preface: I don't think SMN needs to be changed, I just like thinking about these things.

SMN currently has an identity crisis. On one hand it has permanent summons as pets. On another it has giant awesome summons for a short time on cds. On a third hand (yes SMN has three hands it's a mess) it has dots.

Now I love me some dots but they're not summons (though summons are indeed dots). I love dots so much I'd like to see a new job based entirely around them, so that's what I propose: Take the dot package from SMN, make it into a new job, and fill the void with moar summons while also making the summons more analogous.

Summoner

• Bio, Miasma, Fester, Bane, Painflare, Tri-Disaster, Energy Drain and Siphon - all gone.
• Replace with new abilities that have something to do with summons.
• Less mobile but has new summons to help get around (Atomos portal?).
• Permanent egis are lame, demis are better. Therefore all summons shall be demis to some degree, but will still call the small ones egis because it's easier.
• Demis still need to be way better than egis.
• Make trance more awesome.
• Moar primals.

Egis:

• 1 min cd, 30s duration.
• Have about 6 total to choose from - 2 single target dps (melee/ranged), 2 aoe dps (same), 1 "tank", 1 "heal".
• Add an Assault ability, give extra utility to some of the egis. Since they must be rotated we'll have more freedom to use one for a shield or speed boost or what have you.
• Active egis apply a small alteration to our core abilities. (Slight change in animation/color, bonus damage of a certain type, etc.)

Trance:

• Consumes active egi to use.
• Rather than reducing cast time by 2.5s, reduce it and our gcd by 1.5s.
• Casting spells raises a new trance meter.
• Trance meter can be spent on Deathflares and/or a big demi summon depending on how many casts you get in and what you need at the time.
• If you don't use trance on a demi summon the cd of trance is reduced (in such a way that overall dps is better if you do summon a demi).
• Trance ends either when you summon a demi or after 15s. OR duration is dependent on the sacrificed egi's duration.
• Should be able to summon a demi easily within 10s or Deathflare in 5s, if you're really good and plan ahead by saving ogcds you could maybe get a second Deathflare.

Demis:

• When your trance meter is full you'll have a choice of at least 3 demis to summon which could replace your egis to save bloat.
• Each demi has a cd so you have to rotate between at least two of them.
• All demis have a big effect upon summon.
• Active demis change your core abilities and your rotation, like Phoenix does now but more and they're all a bit different.
• Might be cool if the demis replaced the character entirely.

****************

New DoT Job

For starters we yank the SMN's abilities and expand Aetherflow into something bigger and better. Also moar dots. I would like to see a UI improvement that shows dots and their durations on enemies as well.

• 2 gcd dots: 1 with a cast time, 1 without.
• 2 ogcd dots, one with a short cd.
• Tri-Disaster applies 3 dots - all above except the ogcd with a cd. (Because it's called Tri-Disaster.)
• Bane functions the same, spreads all 4 dots.
• Bring Shadow Flare back.
• Most "mobile" caster thanks to dots always ticking but is slow and has phases where it really needs to stay still.

• Aetherflow caps at 5 and can be obtained from dot ticks as well as Energy Siphon.
• 1 Aetherflow can still be spent on Fester or Painflare but Painflare scales with dots.
• 3 Aetherflow can be spent on a new extremely potent dot (not spread by Bane or applied by Tri-Disaster).
• Channeled filler spells and a powerful cd or two.
• Cd to let you apply two copies of your dots to a target (because single target with dot classes can get very boring).
• Could also have a way to gain buffs for snapshotting but that might get too messy.
• As for the other spells, they could simply be short cds (in the 6-12s range) to be used whenever available that potentially reset Energy Siphon.

That's a good enough base. It definitely takes a bit from MoP's Shadow Priest because that was super fun. None of the casters in FFXIV have an unpredictable Dancer-like rotation so this job could fill that void. Dots can get pretty dull to maintain on their own so a bit of chaos would suit them well, and it would be fun to manage dots in addition to figuring out which spells to cast at any given time.

[Vyrerus]

New DoT job basically described BRD with two more DOTs. You want to play BRD. It's DOTs with chaos.

[Exodus-E]

Oh boy, another set of terrible ideas for "fixing" Summoner (while ignoring established lore).
Let's see here...

Less mobile but has new summons to help get around (Atomos portal?).

The Summoner job was conceptualized as an "anti-Primal" discipline by the Allagans, thus doesn't actually summon Primals but rather uses their essences/powers against them (in the form of constructs and powered up "states").
With that in mind, it wouldn't be able to use the power of voidsent (such as Atomos) because they are not Primals.

Permanent egis are lame, demis are better. Therefore all summons shall be demis to some degree, but will still call the small ones egis because it's easier.

Subjective.
Especially since we still haven't seen what the Egis of other Primals would look like.

Moar primals.

Once again, Summoner doesn't summon actual Primals.
Unless you meant more summon variety (which we were promised with the overdue Egi glamour system), in which case, I agree.

That's a good enough base. It definitely takes a bit from MoP's Shadow Priest because that was super fun. None of the casters in FFXIV have an unpredictable Dancer-like rotation so this job could fill that void. Dots can get pretty dull to maintain on their own so a bit of chaos would suit them well, and it would be fun to manage dots in addition to figuring out which spells to cast at any given time.

And there's a good reason for that: because it's not what their (sub) role is about.
Physical Ranged DPS, on the other hand, are meant to be (far) more mobile and bring more overall utility to the entire party, in exchange for lower damage (be it by raw numbers or by having a "random rotation").
Turning SMN into one with a "random rotation" would make it much weaker compared to what we have now (especially compared to other casters), so it's a hard disagree from me.

[Keramory]

I still don't know why we need to split them. I know everyone talks about SMN either being 2.0 FFXIV or FFXI... but you can have both.

I think an easer solution is to have your summons/egis represent all your spells, period. The summons can cast primarily dot spells under their animations with the occasional giant nuke spell at the end of a particular rotation.

I never understood why me, as the character, need a book to cast Bio to begin with. I thought my book was to cast egis/summons. The only thing I should be doing is telling my summon what to do. Like it casting some variant of Bio for me.

[Dyvid]

{Thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass.}

[Warlyx]

New DoT job basically described BRD with two more DOTs. You want to play BRD. It's DOTs with chaos.

tbh the bites arent even fun anymore , u use it on pull or if boss goes away /yawn iron jaws should apply and refresh dots come endwalker .

smn are the same , with tri resetting u barely have to refresh dots and u can swiftcast miasma + bio there u go , not interesting at all

[Tulzscha]

Oh boy, another set of terrible ideas for "fixing" Summoner (while ignoring established lore).

Not trying to "fix" anything as said at the start of my post, they're just ideas. Calm down, no need to be so rude. I find it fun to come up with designs and I posted them in case anyone else is the same way, that's all. It's not like it's going to happen.

[SMN] wouldn't be able to use the power of voidsent (such as Atomos) because they are not Primals

Fair. Atomos was a summon in other FF games and that's the first thing that came to mind in regards to a summon that could offer mobility to the caster.

"Permanent egis are lame" - Subjective.
Especially since we still haven't seen what the Egis of other Primals would look like.

Yep, that was an intentionally brusque comment. To elaborate, permanent egis don't feel as impactful as temporary demi summons. They cheapen the idea of summoning a bit, as summons in FF have traditionally been big dramatic events.

Once again, Summoner doesn't summon actual Primals.
Unless you meant more summon variety (which we were promised with the overdue Egi glamour system), in which case, I agree.

Yes, though the glamour system is apparently not coming for a while.

And there's a good reason for that: because it's not what their (sub) role is about.
Physical Ranged DPS, on the other hand, are meant to be (far) more mobile and bring more overall utility to the entire party, in exchange for lower damage (be it by raw numbers or by having a "random rotation").
Turning SMN into one with a "random rotation" would make it much weaker compared to what we have now (especially compared to other casters), so it's a hard disagree from me.

Oi. First of all I wasn't talking about SMN here, it was for a potential dot-based caster, and a caster that relies heavily on damage over time effects would have some inherent amount of mobility thanks to the nature of said effects. This job in my mind would offer little to no utility and would still need to cast or channel for optimal dps. I don't see why casters can't be unpredictable though.

I think an easier solution is to have your summons/egis represent all your spells, period. The summons can cast primarily dot spells under their animations with the occasional giant nuke spell at the end of a particular rotation.

I never understood why me, as the character, need a book to cast Bio to begin with.

Yeah that would certainly make SMNs more summony and would give an excuse to have more summon variety in one way or another. Personally I just like the idea of a new dot-based caster (which we know isn't coming any time soon if ever). But how would dots from summons work? Would it be the same as now with different flavor or require a certain summon to be active? Would they always be available? What about Fester, Aetherflow, or Bane?

As for the book I believe it's just a way to cast spells in general. BLM and RDM use mediums, Arcanists use books which allows for but is not limited to summoning.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Definitely thought that this thread was about something else...

... carry on.

[NYCLouisGamer]

Definitely thought that this thread was about something else...

... carry on.

You pervert

[Ariel_Valmont]

Although it has some minor nit picks SMN is a great job that plays well at every level of content (synced/current) stop trying to get the devs to give it the MNK treatment and gut it to a shell if it’s former self.