Living dead must change

Dark knight is the only tank that relies on a healer to use it's invulnerability, so as yoshi-p like to keep identity, my suggestion is instead of losing hp when activated it will instead gain hp equal to the damage taken, this will make it also unique and keep the lifesteal theme of dark knight

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Originally Posted by LeonardoRozsas

Dark knight is the only tank that relies on a healer to use it's invulnerability, so as yoshi-p like to keep identity, my suggestion is instead of losing hp when activated it will instead gain hp equal to the damage taken, this will make it also unique and keep the lifesteal theme of dark knight

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There is no job identity among tanks, its just 4 shades of WAR.
I think tanks would be far better off if only PLD had the immortality bubble and the rest of the tanks had something else entirely instead.

Holmgang for example could just do the snare and if the warrior shackles his target for the full duration, he can perform a finisher attack.

as for Living Dead, i think it would be better for DRK if it would allow the DRK to stand up on his own once AFTER he died for a set amount of time. During the duration, the DRK's HP stays at 0 and he can use skills normally, but drops dead again after the timer ends.

As for Super Bolide, i honestly don't know, maybe something that would allow the GNB to get a % dmg boost deoending on missing HP or improved effects for skills that require cardridge charges.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

There is no job identity among tanks, its just 4 shades of WAR.

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https://i.imgur.com/AbeOik6.jpg?fb

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Originally Posted by DaulBan

https://i.imgur.com/AbeOik6.jpg?fb

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That's some tasty bait there.

Sure would be a shame if

Someone

Took it.

I think invulns need to be sorely looked at by the development team now. This is especially true if they want to make a healer rework a priority in Endwalker. Tanking and healing are closely interlinked by necessity. Right now, raidwides are the primary healing 'challenge', rather than tank damage. Invulns are too powerful and too available.

Living Dead definitely needs to be looked at. If we're separating out healers into 'pure healers' and 'shield healers', then the rules will need to change for Walking Dead's heal or die check. Will shields count towards cleansing the effect? I'm not sure what direction this is going to go, but I'd love to see some dev thoughts on this.

Holmgang was changed this expansion. It no longer requires a target. It no longer roots you in place. It has a longer duration and a longer recast than it did previously, and it's enough that it's consistently better than Living Dead in every situation without having any associated drawback. Historically, there Living Dead's potential duration gave it some situational advantages over Holmgang. It was better suited for longer, multi-hit tankbuster sequences (i.e. Final Beam combo, Holy Scourge, Ultimate Embrace + Hyperdrive). Now it's pretty obvious that Living Dead is the worse choice all around.

There are a lot of technical issues with how Living Dead is implemented as well. You need to heal to prevent instant death, but healing paradoxically causes the cooldown to end early. Most of us have seen an early cleanse on a multihit tankbuster only to cause a death on a later hit. There's no gauge to let healers know how close they are to cleasing Walking Dead. And when you go the most reliable route, Benediction is three minutes and Living Dead is five. You're guaranteed to lose Benediction uses when you try to pair the two up. And don't get me started on the tooltip errors. There's no wonder why most of the playerbase doesn't know how it works.

In one of his early interviews, Yoshi-p mentioned that Invincible (Hallowed) was too strong, but that they couldn't really do anything about it given its history. The original Nisi cheese very nearly involved a PLD purely for the invuln, except for the fact that it was at a clear dps disadvantage. There have since been stealth nerfs (you no longer can use it to negate stack applications,) but it's still incredibly powerful. Living Dead and Superbolide try to tone it down some, but they still tend to overpower the rest of the cooldowns in their respective kits.

If Living Dead were to be reworked, what I would favour is this:

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Shadowform: For the next 10 seconds, any incoming damage and healing is negated. Damage and healing prevented this way is converted into a temporary shield of up to X% of max HP.

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This is essentially a modified version of Sigma's Kinetic Grasp.

As far as availability goes, I'd like to see 'higher difficulty' settings place team-wide limits on player access to invulns and rezzes. I think that Monster Hunter approach of having a shared 'pool' of deaths or resources forces you to play a bit more cautiously and work more closely with your team. If you could only invuln, say, three tankbusters per fight at a savage difficulty setting between the two of you (or two in an ultimate difficulty setting), then maybe cooldown management may become a thing again.

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Originally Posted by DaulBan

https://i.imgur.com/AbeOik6.jpg?fb

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I can only hope to reach this level of genius.

The sad thing here is that tank identity has been mostly stamped out for balance and people complain about that. Yet one of the few things left giving tanks identity is the invulns, but people complain about the effect those have on balance too...

So the question here is, would you rather have tanks have unique, identity defining abilities that cause balance issues, or homogenised tanks that all play the same?

Either way I will say I agree living dead needs a rework, it is baffling that this move has gone untouched since its release when it has NEVER been a good move. It has never fit DRKs lore, it has never fit DRKs skill set, it has never fit the design of the game as a whole! (Being one of only two skills in the entire game that requires someone other than the user to know how it works).

How can an ability type be described as 'unique' and 'identity-defining' when every job in the role has it? There's a difference between 'gives me an identity' and 'gives me a competitive advantage'.

I personally think that easy access to invulns and rezzes enables sloppy gameplay. Yes, they lead to some clutch gameplay moments. But that's only true when they are rare. I think that if you want to scale up the difficulty of content, all you need to do is start placing caps on these.

The least they could do is add another piece of jargon to its tooltip...

Additional Effect: If Walking Dead effect expires, and the Dark Knight dies, then they aren't inflicted with weakness.

The idea being that they were trying to not die, and were somewhere between not restored at all, and completely restored, so why be weak?

I mean, I'd be in favor of a better rework, but I think that's the least they could do. Make the death that isn't the DRK's fault less penalizing.

From a healer PoV, even if you have a WHM in the group it doesn't make Living Dead great. Benediction is not just a rare emergency button, it's an extremely potent oGCD and great to weave in on a tank who is low or a dps who got hit by a mechanic to save heal GCD's. When your tank is a DRK and assigned to immune a tankbuster, you lose free access to that part of your toolkit. Other tanks don't have to be healed to full, you can throw a lily and a tetra on them or let the AST ED and any HoT's up or passive raid heals can handle the rest.

Holm is almost too good now. In some fights, having a WAR lets you immune more busters than a non-WAR comp. That's a huge advantage and makes healing so much easier, especially with an AST and because the tank can move the mitigation elsewhere. I'm surprised LD doesn't have the shorter CD so DRK could at least have filled that niche of an extra buster immune instead. But tbh immunes in general probably need looking at.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

From a healer PoV, even if you have a WHM in the group it doesn't make Living Dead great. Benediction is not just a rare emergency button, it's an extremely potent oGCD and great to weave in on a tank who is low or a dps who got hit by a mechanic to save heal GCD's. When your tank is a DRK and assigned to immune a tankbuster, you lose free access to that part of your toolkit. Other tanks don't have to be healed to full, you can throw a lily and a tetra on them or let the AST ED and any HoT's up or passive raid heals can handle the rest.

Holm is almost too good now. In some fights, having a WAR lets you immune more busters than a non-WAR comp. That's a huge advantage and makes healing so much easier, especially with an AST and because the tank can move the mitigation elsewhere. I'm surprised LD doesn't have the shorter CD so DRK could at least have filled that niche of an extra buster immune instead. But tbh immunes in general probably need looking at.

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I don’t check on the healer forums often but I wonder if there is this kind of sentiment, generally, on that side? It seems it would certainly be helpful if there was an outcry from healers to talk about LD being a less than desirable invulnerability that it would push the devs and Yoshi p to do rework it considering the symbiotic relationship between the two roles.

It needs to be changed. Especially considering the healers changing. Right now unless you have a WHM or extremly competent healers in your group LD is ok. But lets say they dont change it and you get paired up with a SCH and SAG. Unless SAG gets a move like Benediction which I highly doubt, then you are at the mercy of the healers to choose if you kill yourself or not.

LD is the only tank invuln where you have to have a Macro to tell your healers you are about to die. Sadly I doubt they will change it. DRK got a rework for SHB, if they arent going to fix it in the rework, I doubt they would fix it later.

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Originally Posted by Derio

It needs to be changed. Especially considering the healers changing. Right now unless you have a WHM or extremly competent healers in your group LD is ok. But lets say they dont change it and you get paired up with a SCH and SAG. Unless SAG gets a move like Benediction which I highly doubt, then you are at the mercy of the healers to choose if you kill yourself or not.

LD is the only tank invuln where you have to have a Macro to tell your healers you are about to die. Sadly I doubt they will change it. DRK got a rework for SHB, if they arent going to fix it in the rework, I doubt they would fix it later.

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Yeah, I agree. That’s why I’m playing other tanking classes for now and dps on rpr for EW. It seems to be the only SE pays attention.

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Originally Posted by Derio

It needs to be changed. Especially considering the healers changing. Right now unless you have a WHM or extremly competent healers in your group LD is ok. But lets say they dont change it and you get paired up with a SCH and SAG. Unless SAG gets a move like Benediction which I highly doubt, then you are at the mercy of the healers to choose if you kill yourself or not.

LD is the only tank invuln where you have to have a Macro to tell your healers you are about to die. Sadly I doubt they will change it. DRK got a rework for SHB, if they arent going to fix it in the rework, I doubt they would fix it later.

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It’ll probably be easier to just let the tank die and revive him after the changes and the expansion of they don’t change it. Lol...

Like a "Dark Ressurection". You die and insta rez with a regen. Dumb idea i know. Without weakness of course

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Originally Posted by Danelo

I don’t check on the healer forums often but I wonder if there is this kind of sentiment, generally, on that side? It seems it would certainly be helpful if there was an outcry from healers to talk about LD being a less than desirable invulnerability that it would push the devs and Yoshi p to do rework it considering the symbiotic relationship between the two roles.

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The last dedicated discussion on the subject was this one: Link

The answer to your question is Swiftcast + Raise.

I think that a stat squish could either ease or worsen the healing requirements on the ability. The proposed 'pure'/'shield' healer split doesn't bode well, unless it gets reworked such that shields count towards the effect.

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Originally Posted by LeonardoRozsas

Dark knight is the only tank that relies on a healer to use it's invulnerability, so as yoshi-p like to keep identity, my suggestion is instead of losing hp when activated it will instead gain hp equal to the damage taken

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I don't know about this.

Holmgang prevents WAR from falling below 0. I can sit at 1 HP for 8 seconds preventing me from dieing. Equilibrium or Nascent don't come close to getting me out of the danger zone raising from 1 HP. I have 190k unbuffed HP on my WAR, with the both for mentioned I would maybe get around 80k HP if my healing skills don't proc. Thrill of battle can push that up a little. Holmgang is a strange one though as I only used it if my warrior is critical. Like 10k HP. Last ditch effort to stay alive until I wait for a benediction or essential. Auri Doomstead is great example if I'm sitting at 1/2 HP I know that it's going to wipe me out. Holmgang prevents my death and if i'm not quick on the shirk or OT is slow on the Voke...i'm prolly going to die. Healer is definitely needed.

Superbolide is sort of the same but I use it whenever I want. You still need heals to get you back up. Healer needed and as a healer you need to pay attention closely when healing through multiple tank busters when tank decides to invuln.

Now Living Dead works fine, it's just wonky in timing I find, and getting used to it can be difficult. Which I think is the DRK class in a nutshell in how you use your dark arts, blackest night, and MP management in that it's all timing. Having said that Living dead is actually a VERY powerful Holmgang. The only caveat is once you fall below 0 your now walking dead. Then you need a bene, excog, essential.

I look at it this way.

10 seconds of living dead. 10 whole seconds of "insurance" that if I fall below 0 HP i'm good.

Now if I fall below 0 now my insurance company needs to help me out.

Walking dead is that policy with 10 MORE seconds of no damage, but the company requires the "premium" is payed...by being fully healed which is easy if your taking 0 damage.

That's 20 seconds of "It's ok if I die...I have insurance....just hope I pay the premium".

I have healed this many times with most DRK's and the one time it made sense to me is when the tank used it when they knew they were in trouble. Like around 20K HP, and they were right. The only difference was it didn't kill them, and that was the Invuln doing exactly what it was supposed to do. 10 secs of i'm immortal...it's ok if I die. As a healer I had to prevent them from dyeing.

Now if they did die it was due to my poor healing and then I have to bring them back within 10 seconds. That's easy with essential x2, celestial intersection, aspected benefic, lightspeed, Benefic 2. Maybe 8 seconds? guessing.

I find it fine...others would disagree. Like PLD mains. Hallowed Ground is pretty gold standard invuln.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

From a healer PoV, even if you have a WHM in the group it doesn't make Living Dead great. Benediction is not just a rare emergency button, it's an extremely potent oGCD and great to weave in on a tank who is low or a dps who got hit by a mechanic to save heal GCD's. When your tank is a DRK and assigned to immune a tankbuster, you lose free access to that part of your toolkit. Other tanks don't have to be healed to full, you can throw a lily and a tetra on them or let the AST ED and any HoT's up or passive raid heals can handle the rest.

Holm is almost too good now. In some fights, having a WAR lets you immune more busters than a non-WAR comp. That's a huge advantage and makes healing so much easier, especially with an AST and because the tank can move the mitigation elsewhere. I'm surprised LD doesn't have the shorter CD so DRK could at least have filled that niche of an extra buster immune instead. But tbh immunes in general probably need looking at.

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Holm is just as bad to heal from a healer perspective as superbolide. The WAR has an advantage with it's crazy healing skills. Thril + Equal + Nascent is around 150k ish. Healer won't need to bene. I run AST so one essential is really all I need to top them off. The rest I can Lightspeed Benenfic 2. Celestial intersection is REALLY good for low HP tanks, and gives me time to heal them up.

Living Dead in my opinion is ALL on the DRK when it comes to timing. If they do in fact die, then it's up to me as a healer to get them back up. When I have a DRK in the group I make it a point to watch for Living Dead. Lightspeed is a perfect skill for DRK's popping Living Dead. Just stop them from dieing and it's all good, and if they do die? I have 10 seconds of the DRK taking no damage until I can raise them to full HP. AST has no problem fully healing form 0 as I can do this with GNB, and WAR. Because 1 is only 1 more then 0. I don't see the issue bringing a GNB back from 1 to full health vs. brining a DRK back from 1 to full health.

If anything...they just lower the percentage of health required from 100% to 75%. Fixed.

Much of what you've said isn't right. Holmgang and Living Dead prevent your HP from going below 1, not 0. Living Dead does not give you a whole 10 seconds. When the clock strikes 0, you die. If you cleanse early, the invuln ends early. Holmgang and Superbolide won't kill you when they expire, so if there's no outgoing damage at that point due to a cast or phase transition, you can just as easily sit at 1 HP if you like. The '20 seconds' claim is a common statement, but is false. The only portion of Living Dead that provides any mitigation is when Walking Dead activates. All that the previous 10 seconds does is help you shave some time off the recast if you activate it early.

Also, regarding the healer required comment - DRK is the only tank which has to rely on Lost Manawall to complete the Aces High duel. With all other invulns a healer may be situationally necessary, but for DRK it is absolutely mandatory, regardless of circumstance.

"It's fine, every tank has to have something it's bad at, as much as it's got stuff it's good at!"

Today is a sad day for all us DRK Tank Mains. Today, Dark Knight is not fine. :(

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

That's easy with essential x2, celestial intersection, aspected benefic, lightspeed, Benefic 2. Maybe 8 seconds? guessing.

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And that is exactly where the problem lies with living dead. You say “ it’s easy” I just have to pump ALL my resources into the DRK to prevent their death after they USED AN INVULN. Know what you have to do for the other tanks to keep them alive after an invuln? NOTHING! Or more realistically, give them a single oGCD heal to get them up from 1hp combined with their own self heals which are not as insignificant as you make them out to be, especially WAR.

Living dead is a resource black hole, it’s using an invuln, every oGCD heal from the healer and probably some GCD heals to boot or a benediction which is so overkill, to pull off what the other tanks can do with little to no healing required.

I think Living Dead would be fine if Walking Dead gave a significant increase to healing received, like a 50% or even 100% increase. Basically something to make it easier to actually heal the Dark Knight for 100% of their total HP.

My greatest concern is that they will try to consider the stat squish a bandage for LD as the higher tank hp pools and lower heal numbers this expansion have exacerbated the problem with LD. It just sucks and playing around with the numbers won’t help. Kill off LD and make something new and in line with the rest of the invulnerabilities.

Agreed. Most of the solutions that change the healing requirements don't really solve the problem. We had a period of time between 4.4 and 5.0 when Sole Survivor could be timed against Living Dead to meet you 20% of that healing requirement. Your healers still don't have a gauge of how much healing is left to cleanse the effect. You still have no control over cleansing the effect yourself. It's not like you have WAR's self-heal potential. This ability is on the wrong tank.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Now if they did die it was due to my poor healing and then I have to bring them back within 10 seconds. That's easy with essential x2, celestial intersection, aspected benefic, lightspeed, Benefic 2. Maybe 8 seconds? guessing.

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You know what's even easier... ?

https://i.redd.it/vqb6bgdx6t841.png

GNB and WAR take 1 ED, or a Solace+Tetra, or an Excog and then whatever raid healing you have going handles the rest. Not a single hardcast heal. Superbolide is especially comfy for multi-hit busters. Your solution to DRK however is 4 oGCD's, a clip and 2 GCD heals. It also requires that you've been holding those valuable oGCD's. You shouldn't be letting ED sit at cap, LS is for movement and CI should be rolling on cd for tank heals. The DRK's immune is crippling your toolkit. How is that "fine"?

Hilarious that Living Dead essentially requires a rotation to manage and some people will still state that it's fine.

It's also the Invulnerability that can be ended early.
You can literally end up with ONE SECOND of after using it if you receive a benediction after dropping to 1 HP.

Honestly, LD could just be easily changed while still keeping the same flair to it. The only issue with LD is the 'all or nothing' bit; if they changed it to just a negative side-effect after WD expires, it would solve so many issues with LD.
Personally, if I were to design LD but keep its flair, I'd do this:

Living Dead: Grants the effect of Living Dead. When HP is reduced to 0 while under the effect of Living Dead, instead of becoming KO'd, your status will change to Walking Dead.
Walking Dead: While under the effect of Walking Dead, most attacks will not lower your HP below 1. During Walking Dead, all weaponskills and offensive abilities initiated by you will gain the effect of lifesteal (1:1). When the effect of Walking Dead expires, if 100% of your Max HP was not restored during the duration of walking dead, you will suffer the effect of Bleeding Out.
Bleeding Out: You will suffer damage equivalent to 1/4th of the difference between your maximum HP and the HP that was restored during the effect of Walking Dead. Duration: 12s.

Blackest night:
Additional effect: under the status of 'Walking Dead', The Blackest Night will also restore 25% of your maximum HP. Any 'The Blackest Night' still active on you when the effect of 'Walking Dead' expires will immediately break, granting you the effect of 'dark arts'.

This would place more control in the hands of the DRK, where in solo or low man instances they could contribute more to the healing requirement of walking dead, while also giving synergy with Blackest Night (which would make sense, given the job quest lore). This also removes the all or nothing condition: the healer could spend the extra resource or two to not have to deal with bleeding out, or they could just throw a single OGCD, let the DRK's attacks & Blackest night handle part of the healing, then deal with the DoT afterward.

the DoT is designed in such a way that it's not crazy invasive unless neither the healer or DRK did like, absolutely nothing during the duration of Walking Dead, but at the same time to act as a small punishment for not healing 100%. So if a DRK was healed 80k out of their 100k HP, then the DoT would tick 4x at 5k damage afterward

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Originally Posted by Tranquilmelody7

You can literally end up with ONE SECOND of after using it if you receive a benediction after dropping to 1 HP.

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Real WHM's don't Bene until 9.5 sec. Make your DRK sweat a little c:

"Liiiiaam? D:" Fun times.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

snip

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I genuinely don't understand the obsession people have with giving Living Dead a drawback. Seriously, it makes no sense to me. Is there a drawback to Paladin when Hallowed Ground ends? What about Warrior and Holmgang? Gunbreaker and Superbolide? No, there's no drawback. A Gunbreaker can blow it's brains out all over the arena but it doesn't end up with a Concussed debuff that lowers its Strength or something stupid like that. The invuln ends and Healers just have to make sure the Tank has some amount of HP leftover when the invuln ends so they don't immediately keel over dead to next auto. So why in the name of Hydaelyn does Living Dead have to punish the Dark Knight for not being healed for 100% of it's max HP? "Give it Weakness debuff!" "Give it a Bleed DoT!" "Break all it's gear for having the audacity to use it's invuln!" SE needs to stop punishing the Dark Knight for using an important part of it's toolkit, not give it a different punishment altogether.

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Originally Posted by Beddict

I genuinely don't understand the obsession people have with giving Living Dead a drawback. Seriously, it makes no sense to me. Is there a drawback to Paladin when Hallowed Ground ends? What about Warrior and Holmgang? Gunbreaker and Superbolide? No, there's no drawback. A Gunbreaker can blow it's brains out all over the arena but it doesn't end up with a Concussed debuff that lowers its Strength or something stupid like that. The invuln ends and Healers just have to make sure the Tank has some amount of HP leftover when the invuln ends so they don't immediately keel over dead to next auto. So why in the name of Hydaelyn does Living Dead have to punish the Dark Knight for not being healed for 100% of it's max HP? "Give it Weakness debuff!" "Give it a Bleed DoT!" "Break all it's gear for having the audacity to use it's invuln!" SE needs to stop punishing the Dark Knight for using an important part of it's toolkit, not give it a different punishment altogether.

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Because people like the theme of Living Dead but they agree that it's too much, so they want to compromise the desire of it being an invuln that punishes improper management without making it require the huge resource dump it currently does. It IS possible to enjoy a concept but hate it's execution after all.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

You know what's even easier... ?

https://i.redd.it/vqb6bgdx6t841.png

GNB and WAR take 1 ED, or a Solace+Tetra, or an Excog and then whatever raid healing you have going handles the rest. Not a single hardcast heal. Superbolide is especially comfy for multi-hit busters. Your solution to DRK however is 4 oGCD's, a clip and 2 GCD heals. It also requires that you've been holding those valuable oGCD's. You shouldn't be letting ED sit at cap, LS is for movement and CI should be rolling on cd for tank heals. The DRK's immune is crippling your toolkit. How is that "fine"?

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This just says to me that SQEX needs to buff those kits. Make those numbers chonky enough that I can just use one or two buttons SQEX, I wanna ignore my ever swelling glut of healing skills and get back to casting Broil.
/sarcasm

Seriously though Living Dead is like some of the status effects we've had bosses put on us.
It feels wholly inappropriate to inflict it upon yourself. I've died to it so many times I've stopped using it outside my static, and have adopted the mentality "well, if [rando] can't heal me up before living dead they probably can't afterwards either..."

Also, nice pic~

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

It IS possible to enjoy a concept but hate it's execution after all.

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I could get on board with this if the other invulnerabilities had as massive a downside (or any downside) as LD. As far as I’m concerned (& most others based on the posting it seems) it’s just bad concept and bad execution. And the fact that Holmgang was buffed but nothing for LD was akin to SE giving DRK mains the four finger salute. How disconnected must they be?

Remember when pacification was a thing on WAR's Berserk, and players hated it and insisted on seeing it changed? The vitriol towards Living Dead is similar, except that it has a much worse drawback and a much more difficult dispel condition. There's a difference between risk/reward trade-offs and being actively punished for using your toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Remember when pacification was a thing on WAR's Berserk, and players hated it and insisted on seeing it changed? The vitriol towards Living Dead is similar, except that it has a much worse drawback and a much more difficult dispel condition. There's a difference between risk/reward trade-offs and being actively punished for using your toolkit.

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Plot twist, people hated it mostly cause of warriors their damn macros.

Berserk Macro

It was an ambivalent response, really. Some healers liked having the heads up on when to cast Esuna/Leeches, others wrote up macros of their own with mocking replies. Then it eventually became a BRD problem.

Some people use alert macros with Living Dead as well, the key differences being that healers universally want to know when you're using it, and it's more than a passing inconvenience to die from it.

What if Living Dead inflicted you with Doom upon triggering, to be cured by an Esuna OR getting full HP ?
Increasing recharge time accordingly.

What if walking dead upon being failed to be healed turned the tank into an enemy zombie that had to be killed by the party instead?

Also if the zombie is alive for too long it explodes and wipes the party?

Plus they changed walking dead healing received to be 50% more.

Sounds more like a boss/raid mechanic applies after a tankbuster.

I think that any rework in which cleansing the Walking Dead effect requires the assistance of another player is going to be a poor one, be it casting heals, using Esuna, or using Raise after you die. Heal or die only works if you have the self-healing capabilities to cleanse the effect yourself. WAR could pull it off.