Why are the savage clear rates in the JP Datacenter so much higher than NA?

From the latest lucky bancho post:
https://i.imgur.com/UK3QAhE.png

I guess that shatters the myth that "Only 5% of the players attempt Savage".

How come the mentality of JP is so much better than NA. Why doesn't NA want to attempt anything hard at all?

Source:
https://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/55652337.html

We know why.

Actually true. NA tries and just cannot compete because they refuse to A) get better or B) put enough time for it. Too busy RP’ing in “Bars” to even care is somewhere on that list as well

Why would that break the fact that only 5% savage? In Wow everyone makes High End content and the% of the people who complete Mytic have reached 0.20% as was Blackhand in WoD.

HighEnd content has ALWAYS been content only dedicated to a dedicated group of players. Also the problem is that half of the playerbase of this game is Japanese, so the percentage on Japanese servers is much higher.

Here we go again. This won't end badly at all.

Because JP doesn't treat this game as a brothel simulator.

Obvious bait aside, I'll offer up my own experience as an anecdotal example.

Could I do savage content? Yes. Would I like to do savage content? Yes. For me, 100% of the difficultly is finding a static—I just don't know how to do it in this game. My experience in WoW was that it was never that hard to find a raiding guide at halfway decent hours—they'd advertise in general chat or PUG a couple people and then invite them, etc. In FF14, I just have no idea how it's done. While I don't mind PUGing reclears, I generally don't find progging in PUGs to be that much fun. (I recently decided to PUG diamond EX, which was fun, but it only worked in a PUG environment because the fight isn't particularly complicated.)

I have no sense of how that experience maps onto others nor am I suggesting that it representative of anything. As I said, offering up an anecdote!

For those of us who do not read Japanese at any decent level, can someone kindly translate what all the columns actually are? I'm curious, but I have no way of knowing.

Japan good ^-^
NA bad >:|
Except me, I’m very good ^-^

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

Japan good ^-^
NA bad >:|
Except me, I’m very good ^-^

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More like:
Aether good ^_^
Primal good ^_^
Crystal -------- Kek

It's more proof that Crystal is just a containment DC

For me, it's simple. Pugging sucks, and I am too fickle anymore to really want to join a static. I'd get bored after two weeks of progging, but feel obligated to continue doing it, at the expense of my time and sanity.

That's around the point where MMO's become an actual job; with schedules, conferencing (voice chat) and all the other soul crushing obligations that make real life feel like a death march.

In NA people play games to escape that nightmare. In Asian culture, however, everything is a job.

^Pugging takes A LOT of enegry and I can understand why people stop after a week or two, or just a couple of attempts.
I started progging E12s very late, and I could wait 1-2 hours for a fresh group to fill up. It's just not fun and that's the main reason why I stopped there for this tier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MPK

More like:
Aether good ^_^
Primal good ^_^
Crystal -------- Kek

It's more proof that Crystal is just a containment DC

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Nah, Aether has Siren that's a Crystal server in disguise. I am sorry, I've tried to change that.

Crystal is in a weird spot that I know a large number of people that spend most of their time on the DC but specifically have 1 char to raid on Aether or Primal because of the panic when the DC was split.

If the pug scene was good as it is in JP maybe people would be more inclined to try raiding but is pretty terrible if you can't commit to a static.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

HighEnd content has ALWAYS been content only dedicated to a dedicated group of players. Also the problem is that half of the playerbase of this game is Japanese, so the percentage on Japanese servers is much higher.

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xenophobic and wrong. 'specially the underlined.

The problem is JP will do it all, because "the devs took time to make it, we should at least try it."
Western mindsets is "I don't wanna try it so I'll make up excuses to justify why I won't do it."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MPK

More like:
Aether good ^_^
Primal good ^_^
Crystal -------- Kek

It's more proof that Crystal is just a containment DC

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Wrong and dumb take.
The problem is the pool of raiders is smaller on Crystal. The bads on crystal are just as bad as the bads on primal, except anecdotally the bads on crystal will not go 0-100 when an error is called out on them.
Source: I've pugged primal and crystal and frankly I prefer the pugs on crystal... whenever there are any, that is.

Would it be nice, in some cases, if the raiding population was higher? Sure. But you can find a static, a pug, for just about any turn on any DC including Ultimates. NA also has a tendency to play a lot riskier than JP, and I have a feeling the lack of utilizing macros for quick pre-pull positions and strategies intermixed with people who'll just drop from a party after a single screwup in a learning party contribute to the overall issue on some level. Becomes kind of hard to learn a fight when people rage quit after a shiva wipe in E12s when the PF listed is specifically for practicing and progging that specific mechanic. All that, and, PF can take a while to fill whereas queuing into a duty multiple people have down to reclear is, probably, faster. Are those the only reasons why JP would have a higher overall clear rate/raid participation? No, but some of it probably contributes.

But it doesn't really impact me if Chocobo has a ton of clears, Crystal tends to have the least due to new players being often pointed to it intermixed with it being predominantly a data center for RP and people pointing away from it as a place to go if you want to raid. And if people more interested in raiding content join a DC known for having a more active raiding population, the other DC's raiding populations tend to stay lower as more raid-interested players will opt for the DC with the higher population for the content they want to do. During the DC split a lot of the raiding population left to stay on Aether, usually since their statics were staying there (which was my case, initially), but I'd say the raiding population has kind of been rebuilding slowly. It's at least more active than I remember post-split on an alt looking through it.

PF is just PF at the end of the day on any DC. Aether PF can be just as messy as Crystal PF, Crystal PF can be as clean as Aether PF. One just has a smaller overall population, and tends to utilize different strategies (like how Aether seems to lean heavy towards Line Lions, while Crystal tends to lean heavily towards Billi Bili) and a big thing with the smaller population is that it generally takes a lot longer to fill a party for a fight. For statics, a lot of people really interested in high-end raiding (ie: speedkills, high logs, hardcore statics, world first groups and so on) will generally transfer where there's opportunities to do that. And in the reverse, people more interested in RP content will usually xfer eventually to Crystal if they don't have a particularly high motivation to raid.

And, the obvious thing, if the raiding population is actually smaller (or a lot newer), that'll also impact clear rates pretty heavily. But I figure that should go without saying.

I'd say a primary way to increase raid participation would be a community oriented thing to work on, providing easy to access and clear resources (which do exist, from SaltedXIV, Ahkmorning, The Balance, various content creator Discords like Momo Sama's, Rin Karigani's etc... and creating a more open space for people to ask questions, or have an easy "in" to start out with -- like Rin and Llama Todd, from what I know, tend to host a number of learning parties here and there to help people get into raiding, and pretty much any high end raider who makes video content, or guide content in general, tend to be more eager to answer questions and so on. Back in StB I know a lot of streamers -- at least -- tended to join clear parties to help out and provide information if asked/be that little extra edge to help push an otherwise capable group over the line which, sort of by proxy, provided the same advice to anyone watching them who might have an interest in the content and are checking it out that via their stream first).

But it's not a catch all, really. At least, that's my actual opinion if the thread's supposed to actually generate thoughtful conversation about the subject.

I mean, when I xferred back to Crystal I somehow shitposted my way into a TEA fresh prog pug for fun and, within half a lockout, we saw LL enrage. That's anecdotal and personal experience, but it does kinda stick with me a bit. Made me want to go back in, or at least do Ultimates in general, but I just tend to be a bit on the shier side so I haven't really committed to looking for a group.

Though, just posting graphs repeatedly and adding nothing isn't a conversation, or insightful. Kinda why I figure this is all just a troll, but I don't know, it's a topic I do somewhat think about from time to time and is kind of worth discussing. At least, more worth discussing than idk, Viera hats again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Wrong and dumb take.
The problem is the pool of raiders is smaller on Crystal. The bads on crystal are just as bad as the bads on primal, except anecdotally the bads on crystal will not go 0-100 when an error is called out on them.
Source: I've pugged primal and crystal and frankly I prefer the pugs on crystal... whenever there are any, that is.

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Never said that raider on crystal are bad. It's just pretty clear that crystal cares more about other "content".

Guess which one of this is Crystal and which one is Gaia
https://i.imgur.com/RUydkak.png

Hint: Obviously there's a very strong correlation between the amount of Lalafells and total savage clears

Graphs without useful labels aren't that helpful...

Crystal's only in a bad spot because the vast majority of our raiders jumped ship with the data center split., Which is then exasperated by the continued perception that people here can't do the content so most raiders don't actually create characters anymore. It's essentially a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That said I'm pretty happy with how chill the data center happens to be. It's not hard to find people who want to do high end content and most people doing it tend to just vibe and be pretty chill all things considered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MPK

Never said that raider on crystal are bad. It's just pretty clear that crystal cares more about other "content".

Guess which one of this is Crystal and which one is Gaia
https://i.imgur.com/RUydkak.png

Obviously there's a very strong correlation between the amount of Lalafells and total savage clears

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Regarding the bold: no that's literally exactly what you implied.
Verbatim copy-paste, "Aether good ^_^
Primal good ^_^
Crystal -------- Kek"

Sure you didn't bluntly and directly say they were bad, you just asserted the other two were good, and Crystal wasn't. Let everyone else make their own assumption, am I right? :^)

EDIT::
Also, strawmanning implications where you bring up lalafells? While you yourself play as one? You must be a hit at drive-in theaters, with how great a projector you are. :^)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

-snip-

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Not that I agree with MPK's attempt to troll but the Lalafell graph is Gaia. JP Datacenters tend to have more Lalafell players than the NA ones do according to LuckyBancho.

I mean using these metrics Crystal is objectively not as good at clearing Savage content as any other datacenter. No other way to slice it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Enla

Not that I agree with MPK's attempt to troll but the Lalafell graph is Gaia. JP Datacenters tend to have more Lalafell players than the NA ones do according to LuckyBancho.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Graphs without useful labels aren't that helpful...

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ten characters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MPK

I guess that shatters the myth that "Only 5% of the players attempt Savage".

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Eh the last column is the number of characters with Eden savage “clear” versus normal “clear”. It says nothing about the attempts, and the rate is not based on total player population.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean using these metrics Crystal is objectively not as good at clearing Savage content as any other datacenter. No other way to slice it.

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*looks at initial chart*
*still has no idea what it means*
*assumes it might mean something, but without knowledge it's just garbage numbers*
*still waiting on that info I asked for*

Not going to lie. I can care less about savage and the people that choose to do it. If I wanted to be verbally abused for missing a single rotation or not having gold parses on every pull I would just go back to WoW where atleast I have 10 add ons that help with performance.

Also in WoW in this thing called a guild people that treat you like trash tend to get kicked out for toxicity and the guild helps you get better without treating you like dirt. FF14 statics are where the myth of this nice community gets thrown in the dumpster.

People who come here from WoW have little to no motivation to deal with that level of toxicity that I have seen and it is wide spread knowledge about FF14.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

ten characters.

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Which was likely the intent since LuckyBancho IS in English and that's where they're pulling these graphs from. It's just a low grade trolling attempt on their part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Not going to lie. I can care less about savage and the people that choose to do it. If I wanted to be verbally abused for missing a single rotation or not having gold parses on every pull I would just go back to WoW where atleast I have 10 add ons that help with performance.

Also in WoW in this thing called a guild people that treat you like trash tend to get kicked out for toxicity and the guild helps you get better without treating you like dirt. FF14 statics are where the myth of this nice community gets thrown in the dumpster.

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Bruh, what static hurt you? I've had the same one for going on three years now and we even play other games. Its a pretty sweet deal if you give it a chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MPK

More like:
Aether good ^_^
Primal good ^_^
Crystal -------- Kek

It's more proof that Crystal is just a containment DC

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Hey we didn't ask for all the free transfers to Mateus that turned it in to an RP server. Some of us liked the small server with no queues where 30 people at an S rank was a huge turnout. Though as someone that has cleared e12s a few times and is from Mateus the chart made me laugh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alaray

Though, just posting graphs repeatedly and adding nothing isn't a conversation, or insightful. Kinda why I figure this is all just a troll, but I don't know, it's a topic I do somewhat think about from time to time and is kind of worth discussing. At least, more worth discussing than idk, Viera hats again.

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Did someone say viera hats?!
More NA players would complete savage if they locked viera hats behind it.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

Did someone say viera hats?!
More NA players would complete savage if they locked viera hats behind it.

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More NA players would *complain* about completing savage in that case. (/mostlyjoking)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Bruh, what static hurt you? I've had the same one for going on three years now and we even play other games. Its a pretty sweet deal if you give it a chance.

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There is no reason and it is completely hit or miss. If I were going to go for Savage then I would want to go for Ultimate and at that point I am basically back playing WoW without half of the things that made it bearable. I have no patience anymore for people talking to me like a child when I am a grown adult playing a fantasy game to escape reality.

People come to FF14 to escape the MMO toxicity that has become a cancer across multiple titles especially WoW. This place is famous for the community but listen to ANYONE describe LFR or the hunt for a good static and you will quickly understand why raiding is so niche in this MMO.

It makes no sense that statics even exist. It made sense when the MMO was dying and you needed to group with whoever you could find but the fact FC's are only used for leveling bonuses is just strange. Square Enix has done nothing to change this and that is why the hard content end game in FF14 will always be based around 8 man content.

They tried Savage with more people in Delubrum and it was a mess. This MMO is not build for large difficult raid content with these horrible UI's, lack of add on support and literally no organization with FC's for it.

There is a reason the latest Ultimate was delayed so much in favor of expansion features like a Pet Island. Square Enix realizes this is not a raiding or pvp MMO and casuals flock here for that reason. If the goal of the FF14 raiding community was to make it as niche as possible by being as toxic as possible then congratulations you guys succeeded.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

That's around the point where MMO's become an actual job; with schedules, conferencing (voice chat) and all the other soul crushing obligations that make real life feel like a death march.

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The scheduling issue does kind of suck for savage I'll agree with that.

But the "conferencing" is more about actual coordination and call outs for fights where you'll be grateful to have them, especially when there's lots of stuff happening at once. But it's really not that bad once you master the fights and get them down.

My static does all our re-clears Tuesday night, takes about 2-2.5 hours including breaks, and then we're done for the entire week.

Although I find the static fights and how unforgiving they are fun and challenging, your mileage may vary.

Honstly the difference comes largely down to how the duty / raid finder is used..

Here you essentially need a static and most statics expect you to raid 25 hours a day 8 days a week.. which is why so many of them fall apart.

Then you have players who basically expect to be carried by everyone else and don't ever try. this then leads to the faxct that western players totally avoid the duty finder and raid finder tools for such content because the failure rates were super high...

Compare that to the jp side where all the accessibilty tools in the game are more or less used properly... You can get home jump in the game. decide to do a piece of content. hit the raid finder and go. No statics, No massive commitments, nothing. just get in, get done, and get out... Thats why the participatipn is so much higher because its so much more accessible there as people use the tools properly.

Here you wouldnt dare use the raid finder because theres always going to be a couple of people who use the wrong settings and expect to be carried. and then they complain that queues for said content take as long as they do...

Sophia ex was about the only time the raidfinder ever worked well here and even then people were using it wrong. you'd queue to help someone duty incomplete phase 3 duty completion... and then find a bunchof people using those same settings despite never getting past the first phase or adds. and then they call it toxicity or elitism and blame everyone else when the group disbands..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

There is no reason and it is completely hit or miss. If I were going to go for Savage then I would want to go for Ultimate and at that point I am basically back playing WoW without half of the things that made it bearable. I have no patience anymore for people talking to me like a child when I am a grown adult playing a fantasy game to escape reality.

People come to FF14 to escape the MMO toxicity that has become a cancer across multiple titles especially WoW. This place is famous for the community but listen to ANYONE describe LFR or the hunt for a good static and you will quickly understand why raiding is so niche in this MMO.

It makes no sense that statics even exist. It made sense when the MMO was dying and you needed to group with whoever you could find but the fact FC's are only used for leveling bonuses is just strange. Square Enix has done nothing to change this and that is why the hard content end game in FF14 will always be based around 8 man content.

They tried Savage with more people in Delubrum and it was a mess. This MMO is not build for large difficult raid content with these horrible UI's, lack of add on support and literally no organization with FC's for it.

There is a reason the latest Ultimate was delayed so much in favor of expansion features like a Pet Island. Square Enix realizes this is not a raiding or pvp MMO and casuals flock here for that reason. If the goal of the FF14 raiding community was to make it as niche as possible by being as toxic as possible then congratulations you guys succeeded.

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I think choosing to take a dump on a part of the community that enjoys content you do not with uninformed opinions about it, is about the same mentality as what you say you detest to see. Ironically.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

I think choosing to take a dump on a part of the community that enjoys content you do not with uninformed opinions about it, is about the same mentality as what you say you detest to see. Ironically.

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There is a LITERAL 31 page thread 2 post below this that has every single reason why the high end community in this MMO gate keeps the content. It is a static concept where you expect to find 8 people doing these perfect rotations, all using ACT and all with these schedules to devote to the content.

In literally every single other MMO that is called a guild but in FF14 it is this loose group of people that raid a few times once every 6 months when new content drops then vanish again or going into the party finder and beat your head against a wall.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...nabling/page31

Most of NA came from other MMO's that had guilds that organized this kind of stuff. Casual guilds...hardcore guilds but in FF14 everyone is told this static thing is how the MMO works and personally I think it is really stupid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

There is no reason and it is completely hit or miss. If I were going to go for Savage then I would want to go for Ultimate and at that point I am basically back playing WoW without half of the things that made it bearable. I have no patience anymore for people talking to me like a child when I am a grown adult playing a fantasy game to escape reality.

People come to FF14 to escape the MMO toxicity that has become a cancer across multiple titles especially WoW. This place is famous for the community but listen to ANYONE describe LFR or the hunt for a good static and you will quickly understand why raiding is so niche in this MMO.

It makes no sense that statics even exist. It made sense when the MMO was dying and you needed to group with whoever you could find but the fact FC's are only used for leveling bonuses is just strange. Square Enix has done nothing to change this and that is why the hard content end game in FF14 will always be based around 8 man content.

They tried Savage with more people in Delubrum and it was a mess. This MMO is not build for large difficult raid content with these horrible UI's, lack of add on support and literally no organization with FC's for it.

There is a reason the latest Ultimate was delayed so much in favor of expansion features like a Pet Island. Square Enix realizes this is not a raiding or pvp MMO and casuals flock here for that reason. If the goal of the FF14 raiding community was to make it as niche as possible by being as toxic as possible then congratulations you guys succeeded.

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Just say you're a bad player and couldn't find a static that would carry you and be done with it. Players already pug savage and clear it on week 1 and you're making the process of finding a static an impossible feat rofl.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Just say you're a bad player and couldn't find a static that would carry you and be done with it. Players already pug savage and clear it on week 1 and you're making the process of finding a static an impossible feat rofl.

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Thanks for proving my point about how childish you guys are and why people avoid it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Thanks for proving my point about how childish you guys are and why people avoid it.

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I mean, that's just the most obvious bait I've seen in a while.