PSA: If a player takes your loot in an "owner needs" map party, they get to keep it

If another player takes your loot in a "your map your loot" party (also known by owner needs/others greed), they will be allowed to keep the item and you *will not* be reimbursed. Chances are they also face no consequences- no suspension or ban.

TL;DR: If another player steals loot from your map in one of these parties, you will not get it back and you're just SOL. Be careful.

In my case, I was running with a random group in PF on Famfrit- something very common, at least here on Primal. The party finder listed the rule: Map owner needs/other players greed. Very clear loot rules. When we got to my map, I happened to get two frontier cloth drops (the latest map material- was going for 1.64mil at that time) on which one of the other players rolled need on. He managed to win one of them. I asked him to give it back to me when the map finished, and he said "oops." Sure, it happens; muscle memory has caused me to hit need a few times when I wasn't supposed to, and I promptly traded it back afterwards. But after we got out, I sent a trade request, which was immediately declined. Sure, maybe he was doing something. Sent another. He gets a Disconnecting symbol.
Note: prior to my map, he went afk for around 15 minutes, getting carried through a Lyhe Ghiah portal and a few overworld maps. He suddenly came back when we couldn't move on due to him not rolling on loot and I asked if we should kick him. This was right before my map.
I reported him, and also got told that GMs cannot replace the item. I'll admit, having had an awful week and being incredibly annoyed over this, I have checked to see if any suspension or ban occurred- he has been happily doing whatever in the firmament ever since. (It's been well over a day since I was contacted by a game master)
I asked around a bit on discord, and this is not an isolated event. You're pretty much SOL if this happens to you, unless someone in your party feels bad enough to give one to you or something.

I'm sure others have seen the absolutely absurd reasons people get suspended or banned in this game lately- anything from spamming holy in city-states (admittedly annoying, but just as much of harassment as stealing loot from someone's map!) or even advertising an RP venue in the party finder.
So why are people allowed to steal materials from another person's map, where the loot rules were clearly defined as the owner of the map is the only one who is allowed to roll need (loot rules in which they agree to by joining the party finder), keep it, and basically just get away with it?
I was debating whether or not to post this as it may plant the idea in other's heads that they can get away with this, but I really hope this shows people the danger of running these loot rules, and maybe motivates people to finally do something about this.

Edit for clarity: The purpose of this post is primarily to warn others of the dangers of running these loot rules with randoms; you will lose these materials and never get them back. Please be careful.

Isn't the "your map your loot" thing a player made rule? If so, you're at the mercy of other players to not be scammed.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

Isn't the "your map your loot" thing a player made rule? If so, you're at the mercy of other players to not be scammed.

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This is quite literally why I made the post, to warn others that that's exactly how it goes. I should have specified that in the post, sorry.

We always go the all "Need" route when we do map parties, but then, we'll make a night of it and it's mostly friends. That said I would trust no one in the PF to keep their word when high stakes loot is in question. Buyer beware.

Owner need is a terrible loot rule for maps anyway. People should dump that awful arrangement and just stick with free for all.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Owner need is a terrible loot rule for maps anyway. People should dump that awful arrangement and just stick with free for all.

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Owner needs is a nice break as someone who's had awful RNG :(
Unfortunately I learned the hard way that it isn't worth it...

This should not work like in the Wow where Blizzard only intervenes in these cases when a deal is established between players and it is broken?

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Owner need is a terrible loot rule for maps anyway. People should dump that awful arrangement and just stick with free for all.

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It's a great concept provided everyone plays along. I wouldn't trust random strangers to abide by it though.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

This should not work like in the Wow where Blizzard only intervenes in these cases when a deal is established between players and it is broken?

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I think it should work exactly like this, but...well, it is what it is I guess.

I think if you want owner needs, then you need to pass lead and set lootmaster for every map.

The tool is there to use if you want (unless it doesn't work on map, never actually tried lootmaster, always go for FFA maps). Otherwise, if people can still need/greed the item, then it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I think if you want owner needs, then you need to pass lead and set lootmaster for every map.

The tool is there to use if you want. Otherwise, if people can still need/greed the item, then it is what it is.

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You cannot use lootmaster on map parties- that is the fundamental issue with these parties.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think it should work exactly like this, but...well, it is what it is I guess.

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It would surprise me if this was not the case, if there is a deal between players established in the text chat and it is broken, it should be considered a scam in this way you avoid any problem between players or what happens many times on the maps.

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Originally Posted by QueenKitty

You cannot use lootmaster on map parties- that is the fundamental issue with these parties.

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Yeah, I made an edit. Guess that's a feature request possibility, unless they really want FFA on maps.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yeah, I made an edit. Guess that's a feature request possibility, unless they really want FFA on maps.

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I think it might be due to the way the map dungeons don't go through the actual Duty Finder? Which is the same reason you're able to enter a map portal if you have the 30 minute penalty from leaving a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by QueenKitty

You cannot use lootmaster on map parties- that is the fundamental issue with these parties.

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I think it would be a great addition, though I could also see players change the loot rules prior to completing a map or rolling on loot in some cases. There are drawbacks to every system though because people love to exploit every possible weakness.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think it would be a great addition, though I could also see players change the loot rules prior to completing a map or rolling on loot in some cases.

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I'd hope it would be like the current Duty Finder, where you can see the loot rule in the queue window prior to entering. If that were the case, it would be no different than someone attempting to queue a free loot Extreme farm as lootmaster.

quick edit: I'm aware maps have no queue window, so perhaps having one added or using an equivalent.

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Originally Posted by QueenKitty

I think it might be due to the way the map dungeons don't go through the actual Duty Finder? Which is the same reason you're able to enter a map portal if you have the 30 minute penalty from leaving a dungeon.

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Wait, are you serious? Interesting. But anyways, it is a feature to think about regardless.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Wait, are you serious? Interesting. But anyways, it is a feature to think about regardless.

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Yes, the way maps work seems quite odd. I'd imagine you'd get something about spaghetti code as an answer for why.

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Originally Posted by QueenKitty

Owner needs is a nice break as someone who's had awful RNG :(
Unfortunately I learned the hard way that it isn't worth it...

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This is a good argument for Owner Need, regardless trust is an issue in PF groups. I tend to avoid, but there's not always enough ppl around in the ol FC so sometimes risks must be taken I guess.

This is why I only do maps with friends and FC.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Owner need is a terrible loot rule for maps anyway. People should dump that awful arrangement and just stick with free for all.

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Honestly, yes. I was in an "Owner Need" map party where I brought literally half of the maps we did, but had terrible luck on portals -- or the drops in the few I got. Meanwhile, I watched someone else get what I was hoping for on the one map they brought. It was a depressing evening.

I actually really like the rule my FC has for map parties: everyone rolls "Need", but if you've already gotten one of whatever that night, you roll Greed on it after that. So if, for instance, Frontier Cloth drops, everyone can roll Need. If I won that cloth, I would then roll Greed on all the future drops of the cloth for the evening but I could roll Need on, say, Calf Leather. I wouldn't win another roll for Frontier cloth unless literally everyone in the group who wanted Frontier cloth had already gotten it.

It works well, but admittedly that's also because when my FC does map parties, we tend to set aside like three hours and blast through 24 maps or something; there are more chances for everyone to get something.

(It's also nice because you don't have to spend brainpower tracking who's gotten what and have to tally stuff up for "can I roll on this one now"; since you start rolling Greed, you can't win a roll until everyone else has, and as soon as they have... well, at that point everyone is rolling Greed, so your Greed rolls could now win you stuff again.)

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Originally Posted by QueenKitty

Owner needs is a nice break as someone who's had awful RNG :(
Unfortunately I learned the hard way that it isn't worth it...

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It goes both ways. If it's "owner needs", RNG can spite you and have everything you want drop from someone else's map where you're not allowed to have it. Your map could be a dud that doesn't even spawn a portal.

Our FC just goes everyone rolls need on what they want. It has caused some drama with newer members because poor ring but it serves its purpose well enough.

This is why when our fc does maps we have it that one person collects all the loot (normally me as I have most retainers) Sells everything and then equally shares out the gil after. If someone wants and item they buy it directly from me for current mb value. Everyone brings in 2 or 3 maps depending on how many came and everyone gets equal money back ultimate fairness.

Just don't do 'owner needs' parties. If everyone brings a map, then it really doesn't matter whose map is whose, it's all RNG and they're all free-for-all.

I see a lot of people mentioning FCs or friends instead for maps, but that isn't an option for everyone. I, for one, wouldn't have resorted to PF if I had any friends/a proper FC in this game.

Free for all makes more sense in the long run I feel. You end up with the same amount of loot on average and it avoids situations where people steal, or the party disbands before everyone has had a chance to run their map. RNG may be a thing, but even with "Map owner needs" you can be subject to bad rng where your map yields no rare items and others maps do.

Free for all is the only way to do it. Fair, not subject to someone getting good rng on portal spawns, everyone has equal chance on items.

You also REALLY don't need a party of 8 to do maps, I've been to the bottom and beaten it as 3-4 people, so usually I just grab a few friends and we talk with each other on items (usually I get the mats and make things for the others, give people minion if we have it, etc).

make sure you put into the chat logs that you all agree to a your map your loot policy. and have everyone say yes. if someone breaks those rules you can report them to support desk for breaking a written agreement. this can be enforced and it does work.

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Originally Posted by Arrhin

We always go the all "Need" route when we do map parties, but then, we'll make a night of it and it's mostly friends. That said I would trust no one in the PF to keep their word when high stakes loot is in question. Buyer beware.

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Honestly I don't get why people don't just do this. The other way is just needlessly convoluted and confusing and people can mess up even by accident. And with pugs, no accountability.

That's why I only ever run with "FFA" map parties.

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Originally Posted by QueenKitty

I see a lot of people mentioning FCs or friends instead for maps, but that isn't an option for everyone. I, for one, wouldn't have resorted to PF if I had any friends/a proper FC in this game.

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Getting into an FC that has people interested in doing maps is the easiest thing in the world.

Going solo all the time in a mmorpg, even if it's XIV, will have drawbacks. As it should.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Owner need is a terrible loot rule for maps anyway. People should dump that awful arrangement and just stick with free for all.

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...thats nice and fun until you get that guy rolling a 20 mill worth of loot from you and your friends as he keeps rolling high...

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

...thats nice and fun until you get that guy rolling a 20 mill worth of loot from you and your friends as he keeps rolling high...

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RNG is RNG how is that any different from 'oh this guy got super lucky with the loot from his map but mine sucked'?

That's why I only go with friends. We all agree on the owner need, everyone else greed. And since we don't have issues with that, we're all happy to keep doing it that way.

It's unfortunate, yeah. But that's why "Owner needs" rules are something that require a modicum of trust. And if there are people who you should not trust when loot is involved, it's strangers you meet in a PF.

There aren't many options for folks not in an FC/having friends, but unless SE changes maps to have their own unique set of loot rules, that's how it be.

If map owner is rolling need everyone else is just wasting their time rolling greed. Just spare your teammates by letting them know when you intend to roll and when you dont. If you dont roll then they greed if you do roll they can just pass.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

RNG is RNG how is that any different from 'oh this guy got super lucky with the loot from his map but mine sucked'?

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This pretty much! It's not any worse than all your maps being duds while everyone else gets portals and loot drops.

Everyone is at risk of getting nothing. Everyone has the potential to win everything. But, more importantly, with FFA every single map is an opportunity to win. In owner need, you get one map out of every 8 where something good might happen and the other 7 you're stuck praying for no portals.

That's no good. I'll never agree that a loot rule which causes people to root *against* portals is a good way to handle maps.

There's no reason for the owner need parties to exist in the first place. FFA is far more relaxed and social, and everyone will walk away with something even if it's just gil (which is usually a fairly considerable amount by the end if everyone has brought at least 2 maps).

If you're bothered by others winning a loot roll on a map you provided, stick to using solo maps.

owner needs has always been a terrible loot rule. what? just cause it's your map, you should get all the good loot despite the fact that everyone's killing mobs and junk? everyone contributes. so everyone should be able to roll need.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

If map owner is rolling need everyone else is just wasting their time rolling greed. Just spare your teammates by letting them know when you intend to roll and when you dont. If you dont roll then they greed if you do roll they can just pass.

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It's not like it's any more effort to press the Greed button than the Pass button though. Discussing it every time wouldn't achieve anything.