Request: Please add Bozja Relic items to the Duty Roulette bonus

TL : DR Putting relic items on the various Duty Roulettes allows for daily progress and future proofs synced content that might be dead in a year or more while at the same time helping people who need leveling content most.

Pretty simple concept.

People currently are cheesing ST / Ivalice raids with BLUs and aren't really helping the people who need this content ran the most.

Adding relic items to certain roulettes would incentivize people to play them.

When was the last time someone did an 80 Roulette (not expert)? The rewards for it are terrible.

The 50/60/70 rewards are really bad currently as it is and many don't run them because of it.

The same goes for normal raids, alliance raids, pvp roulette etc etc.

I have every job at 80 and I don't even think to run these things because it is pointless for me to do so. I'd like to help people out if given the proper incentive.

If people want to rush Castrum Litore and Delubrum Reginae, because they love that content, let them.

Give other people a reasonable daily "other" way to accomplish this. 15 days per step isn't really that much. This also allows for future proofing the content when Bozja is completely dead in an expansion or two and no one is running the 48 man raid required to complete it.

I think putting them in PotD was their way of future proofing it. Unfortunately for me I find both PotD and DR extremely tedious. I wouldn't mind having other ways of getting the items but I'd be surprised if they added them to anything else.

ALSO I would love if they included PvP as a way to progress these things! I remember grinding out light for a few Anima weapons back in HW doing frontlines and it made the experience more enjoyable for me.

I feel bad for anyone wanting them in the future. Good thing I never need relics again :)

Hopefully they add this in 5.5, I only finished 2 ilvl 515 relics, and I already want to kill myself running anymore DR. And yes, I do rotate my jobs when I do them and still find them mind numbingly boring after 30+ runs.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

I think putting them in PotD was their way of future proofing it. Unfortunately for me I find both PotD and DR extremely tedious. I wouldn't mind having other ways of getting the items but I'd be surprised if they added them to anything else.

ALSO I would love if they included PvP as a way to progress these things! I remember grinding out light for a few Anima weapons back in HW doing frontlines and it made the experience more enjoyable for me.

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The only way to make the relic grind efficient in PoTD is to do a set group and go past floor 100. It's kind of crazy the amount of time you have to set aside to get the relic parts out of there, but it definitely beats the average DR runner by a mile once you get to floor 100+.

It will literally never be hard to get into the 50/60/70 alliance raids. People will always be doing them for one reason or another. They aren't dead now and they won't be in the future.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I'd like to help people out if given the proper incentive.

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And honestly this... I don't think you understand how scummy that sounds. If you actually like to help people, you wouldn't need an incentive.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It will literally never be hard to get into the 50/60/70 alliance raids. People will always be doing them for one reason or another. They aren't dead now and they won't be in the future.



And honestly this... I don't think you understand how scummy that sounds. If you actually like to help people, you wouldn't need an incentive.

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If offered an incentive than the question is if someone is doing it to help them or just help themselves by working with like minded individuals. Either way, I think incentives are pretty important for content to be done, though PoTD is up there with PvP and Bazja as far as repetitive content goes. I still say that PoTD is better than Eureka ever was, along with the new Bazja and Savage DR. Challenge should be from the content, not from the coordination needed to run the content.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It will literally never be hard to get into the 50/60/70 alliance raids. People will always be doing them for one reason or another. They aren't dead now and they won't be in the future.



And honestly this... I don't think you understand how scummy that sounds. If you actually like to help people, you wouldn't need an incentive.

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Can't speak for others.. but I run roulettes for the rewards.. not specifically to help others. Helping others by filling the numbers for otherwise potentially dead dungeons (looking at you Praetorium and Meridianum) is the happy and intended side effect. By providing people who've done the content already incentive to keep doing it, you help people who still need it done.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Can't speak for others.. but I run roulettes for the rewards.. not specifically to help others. Helping others by filling the numbers for otherwise potentially dead dungeons (looking at you Praetorium and Meridianum) is the happy and intended side effect. By providing people who've done the content already incentive to keep doing it, you help people who still need it done.

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Yeah, I'll lend a hand if someone asks (provided no one else speaks up) but I'm not running the roulettes purely out of the goodness of my heart. I'd wager very, very, VERY few people approach them that way.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Can't speak for others.. but I run roulettes for the rewards.. not specifically to help others. Helping others by filling the numbers for otherwise potentially dead dungeons (looking at you Praetorium and Meridianum) is the happy and intended side effect. By providing people who've done the content already incentive to keep doing it, you help people who still need it done.

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I would argue on the contrary that it's borderline abusive of SE to tell people who are paying sub that if they wanna progress on the brand new thing, they have to go do almost 10 year old content. ARR was a terrible expansion, and I was ecstatic to be over and done with it, because I thought I wouldn't be dragged back kicking and screaming every bloody patch.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

And honestly this... I don't think you understand how scummy that sounds. If you actually like to help people, you wouldn't need an incentive.

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I have no issue with wanting my time compensated for. By "helping others" I meant helping other people I don't know or who aren't in my FC.

If someone in my FC asks for help with any dungeon or trial, I'm usually one of the few people who help out.

And when the next expansion drops I'll probably be running the hell out of all of these roulettes because I like to level, it's what I find enjoyment in the game.

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Originally Posted by Arkevorkhat

I would argue on the contrary that it's borderline abusive of SE to tell people who are paying sub that if they wanna progress on the brand new thing, they have to go do almost 10 year old content. ARR was a terrible expansion, and I was ecstatic to be over and done with it, because I thought I wouldn't be dragged back kicking and screaming every bloody patch.

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You already know why they do it. There's a constant influx of new players. These players need ARR content done, ensuring that there's always a section of veteran players doing the roulettes ensures that this ancient content doesn't become a stone wall for new players. Now if you're speaking of things like Relics and such, I assume the reasons are similar, but I can definitely understand that you don't want to be forced to farm say.. PotD or Crystal Tower to get things for Shadowbringers content.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

You already know why they do it. There's a constant influx of new players. These players need ARR content done, ensuring that there's always a section of veteran players doing the roulettes ensures that this ancient content doesn't become a stone wall for new players. Now if you're speaking of things like Relics and such, I assume the reasons are similar, but I can definitely understand that you don't want to be forced to farm say.. PotD or Crystal Tower to get things for Shadowbringers content.

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Well, there is some caveats to that. Even though I am super supportive of Yoshi P. and his team, one of the big areas of improvement they need to get down is that when they use old content to power some new feature, they need to revisit it and upgrade it so that it meets the standards of the new expansion. When you are no longer even using the proper rotation they push in the latest expansion when running content, something is wrong. You want all content released, including revisited content, to push and emphasize the current job and encounter design.

This is why many people do not run the older content for pre-existing rewards and why the moogle tomestone events they do yearly tend to become a thing. I already see diminishing returns on the moogle tomestones for existing players, especially those that participated in the prior two. What happened in SB is that they did a crafter push with the Foundation with the "be what you want" campaign. It was needed, but they had to take resources away from other things to pull it off and then we got hit by COVID-19 setbacks.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Well, there is some caveats to that. Even though I am super supportive of Yoshi P. and his team, one of the big areas of improvement they need to get down is that when they use old content to power some new feature, they need to revisit it and upgrade it so that it meets the standards of the new expansion. When you are no longer even using the proper rotation they push in the latest expansion when running content, something is wrong. You want all content released, including revisited content, to push and emphasize the current job and encounter design.

This is why many people do not run the older content for pre-existing rewards and why the moogle tomestone events they do yearly tend to become a thing. I already see diminishing returns on the moogle tomestones for existing players, especially those that participated in the prior two. What happened in SB is that they did a crafter push with the Foundation with the "be what you want" campaign. It was needed, but they had to take resources away from other things to pull it off and then we got hit by COVID-19 setbacks.

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Oh definitely, it is annoying that they're constantly pushing things like CT yet make no attempts or effort to actually do some much needed QoL passes on the content. People.. myself included since I only started in June, don't even learn the mechanics of CT raids anymore because there's neither a need nor a point for the most part. People just bumrush the bosses, in particularly bad runs causing wipes and people getting annoyed because 'oh my god now we actually have to try and perform some of the mechanics as intended rather than just greed through it'. there are some exceptions off course, like Cerberus

The encounter design is inevitable for that one. The only thing I wish they would do is make sure that the rotations people use are up to par with what they are going to use at 70+. That's been a huge problem this expansion since many jobs do not have that going for them. I think people do need a way to reboot into playing a different job, and level sync does solve that issue somewhat, but the jobs could also be simpler so that people don't have to.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The encounter design is inevitable for that one. The only thing I wish they would do is make sure that the rotations people use are up to par with what they are going to use at 70+. That's been a huge problem this expansion since many jobs do not have that going for them. I think people do need a way to reboot into playing a different job, and level sync does solve that issue somewhat, but the jobs could also be simpler so that people don't have to.

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I think at least part of the problem is how many spells/abilities are tied to job quests. On top of the rework itself being a huge undertaking they'd have to go back and make sure all that stuff still makes sense/is doable and possibly have to offer some new incentives for people to actually complete them so they aren't a waste of dev time.

Also, we should probably not deviate from the original point of the thread! More variety for relic/grind weapon completion!

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

I have no issue with wanting my time compensated for. By "helping others" I meant helping other people I don't know or who aren't in my FC.

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Rephrasing it doesn't really make a difference. Like I said, if you need an incentive to help people, you don't actually like helping people. Helping them is just a bonus while you get something for yourself. All I'm asking for is to call it what it is.

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Originally Posted by Arkevorkhat

I would argue on the contrary that it's borderline abusive of SE to tell people who are paying sub that if they wanna progress on the brand new thing, they have to go do almost 10 year old content. ARR was a terrible expansion, and I was ecstatic to be over and done with it, because I thought I wouldn't be dragged back kicking and screaming every bloody patch.

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As long as it's optional, I don't mind it. I think more of the rewards should have been integrated directly into Bozja, but the random chance of getting the items needed in any given engagement in there makes it kind of annoying. 100 Bozja coins could be turned in for the first tier of memories, 200 for a bitter or loathsome, 300 for a vexatious, and so forth, and combined with the random chance it would make the grind inside the zone more complete. And THEN have the optional older content outside for people who cannot stand Bozja and would, in fact, rather run Rabanastre a dozen times.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It will literally never be hard to get into the 50/60/70 alliance raids. People will always be doing them for one reason or another. They aren't dead now and they won't be in the future.

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Really now? Is that why Ivalice raids took upwards or beyond an hour prior to this relic step? Hell, they had to nerf Orbonne into the ground because people kept leaving. Alliance has been almost entirely CT. People don't always do the others. They aren't even a required unlock for the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

And honestly this... I don't think you understand how scummy that sounds. If you actually like to help people, you wouldn't need an incentive.

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How is that in any way scummy? You can want to help people but also be compensated for your time.

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Originally Posted by MPK

I feel bad for anyone wanting them in the future. Good thing I never need relics again :)

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CLL's going to be the problem there. Even though you can progress the relic without it after that point, you're REQUIRED to run it to advance the questline to the point where the relic quest is available. Even with their added incentives, it's still sometimes difficult to fill one and complete it.

Just let me queue for it. I promise I will.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

CLL's going to be the problem there. Even though you can progress the relic without it after that point, you're REQUIRED to run it to advance the questline to the point where the relic quest is available. Even with their added incentives, it's still sometimes difficult to fill one and complete it.

Just let me queue for it. I promise I will.

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My guess is when 6.0 comes out and the content thus becomes dated they'll either add a direct queue option for it via 'Duty Finder', or they'll add an absurd echo factor like they have done so with Eureka which will just make it a roflstomp. But overall I don't think CLL will be too much a drastic issue since they've pretty much made the entirety of Bozja equivalent to doing Heaven on High and Palace of the Dead, so people I think will be inclined to enter to gain EXP.. But then I guess that also depends if this subsequent zone will be level gated to 80s only or not.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

My guess is when 6.0 comes out and the content thus becomes dated they'll either add a direct queue option for it via 'Duty Finder', or they'll add an absurd echo factor like they have done so with Eureka which will just make it a roflstomp. But overall I don't think CLL will be too much a drastic issue since they've pretty much made the entirety of Bozja equivalent to doing Heaven on High and Palace of the Dead, so people I think will be inclined to enter to gain EXP.. But then I guess that also depends if this subsequent zone will be level gated to 80s only or not.

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This is pretty much the only reason I did it, because Bozja was faster than doing 20-30 HoH runs. It did also let me experience everything up to and including Delubrum Reginae, but that was never really my reason for doing the content.

They've been doing this for relics for a while FYI. The real issue is burnout on the content. PoTD is fast for the final step, but you're in there for at least 3 hours going to floor 150+ to cash in on that speed advantage for relic, and if someone has been running it constantly they will easily get sick of doing it eventually. This happened to me on the relic as well, and then they threw in moogle tomes again in the midst of it. You can't even get a map party going and I'd think maps would be a good spot to stick relic mats.

Assign relics to roulettes? That's crazy talk!
I mean, the actually enjoyable-to-farm relics that anyone I know has bothered to complete in ARR/HW were like that.
But surely, that could never, ever work!

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Rephrasing it doesn't really make a difference. Like I said, if you need an incentive to help people, you don't actually like helping people. Helping them is just a bonus while you get something for yourself. All I'm asking for is to call it what it is.

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Person A who helps people when given the incentive, is helping more players than person B who thinks it should be done without incentive but who never gets around to doing it.

For example, how many times a day do the people complaining about mentor roulette queue up for dungeons and raids without a reward? I bet it's far fewer than the mentors trying to get their mount. Virtue signaling doesn't keep the queues alive, rewards do.

they should just let the Delubrum weekly give you 2 extra artifacts.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

they should just let the Delubrum weekly give you 2 extra artifacts.

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They always nerf the drop rate and not the number needed. I would expect that at some point as well.

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Originally Posted by hobostew

I think putting them in PotD was their way of future proofing it. Unfortunately for me I find both PotD and DR extremely tedious. I wouldn't mind having other ways of getting the items but I'd be surprised if they added them to anything else.

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The problem with POTD as a future proof is that in order to get a halfway decent drop rate you need to be on floors 150+ and in order to do that, most people need to spend around 3 hours in the content to get there.

IMHO, it's a terrible separate way to be able to acquire the items.

Give me something I can do every day to make progress without requiring 23 other people. 4 person content is vastly preferred.

While we're at bozja items, could you (SE) please increase the rewards for savage run as well?
Light DC is getting less and less popular for the last boss practice lately and it would be really nice to get some more fragments. I dont understand why you would limit them to just 3-4 fragments PER RUN and also untradeable gear tokens. Savage will be dead once people get their upgraded judge gear + cerberus mount. Multiple kills provide basically no gain by doing them more than needed.