Why is the Maturity Lvl of People Playing this game so much higher than that of WoW?

I just completed the dungeon "The Great Gobal Library". I read up on the mechanics of it because at this level you will die too much if you do not understand them. But even spending fifteen minutes or so going over them, my unfamiliarity with it caused me to die at least three or four times during the fighting.

I wasn't booted from the four person group. I wasn't bitched at by anyone. When I returned to the start after we all wiped on the last boss, it took me about five minutes to figure out how to get back because the others were already there. No one complained. When I got back, the tank patted me on the head.

This type of behavior was almost completely absent from Wow.

When I first began playing the game, almost a month ago now, I joined an FC. Someone sent me a join request and I accepted it. I was soured from guilds in WoW having been in quite a few. There was always at least one member who was such a jerk I had difficulty tolerating him. In my FC every single member is courteous, polite, friendly, considerate, and never vulgar. I thought I had just been very lucky. But, as with all FC's I people leave and new ones are constantly being invited. Still no jerks.

I know there have to be some immature people playing this game, but as I have not met a single one yet, so there cannot be very many.

What is it about this game that the immature do not like and therefore they do not play ity?

Is it that this game is more about traveling all around? And the story is deeply ingrained within it?

I know there must be others here who have also played WoW and have also realized the huge difference in maturity levels of the players here.

I would be interested in your thoughts as to why this is.

Thanks!

tbh it's not

the experienced you outlined I've had in WoW, and I've seen people in this game blow up at others for petty crap plenty of times. Communities are pretty much the same, just more people can be more directly aggressive about their misgivings in WoW than in FF where you'll get a lot more passive aggression.

I've loaded up in a dungeon in WoW, said "I'm new here" and people would say the similar "oh cool, the boss does x watch out for that" or "these mobs need to be interrupted/this debuff needs to be cleansed" etc...

I've also had people in FF absolutely blow up at someone else for a mistake, or call someone [Insert Insult] over, for example, casting Holy in Dohn Mheg.

Both things happen in both communities shrug emoji.

Don't worry, you'll see it when you start raiding.

I do not see a difference to be honest.

Both games have toxic players, both games have trolls, and both games have people who are willing to help one another.

FFXIV's endgame at least the party finder I find to generally be highly toxic. Pretty sure my blacklist is around 180 people now.

The maturity is high here?
My FC is full of bozos that laugh at my bad fart jokes and make silly voices in Discord.
Maybe all the mature people are just drawn to your server because it was named after a cigarette?

i personally think its because the "setting" and the "atmosphere" of the game.

in wow the setting is war, player can choose between alliance and horde and these 2 faction are always oppose each other, this alone shape the player mindset tend to be "hostile" the moment they see others, and the world in the game also encourage this.

in FF14 however, fight between players are put on the background, the main theme of this game is adventure and fighting together against evil. the setting of this game is "band together" basically it encourage you to be nice and positive toward other player.

i cant put it into words but basically FF14 did not focus like pvp, opposing each other, faction war or anything like that, these make people feel "at ease" and because of that there is no reason to be "jerk/jackass" toward other players. and on top of that everything surrounding FF14 outside combat just scream "having fun/silly stuff" with stuff like playing instrument, housing, furniture, pose, group pose, golden saucer, weird getup, etc.

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Originally Posted by gumas

i personally think its because the "setting" and the "atmosphere" of the game.

in wow the setting is war, player can choose between alliance and horde and these 2 faction are always oppose each other, this alone shape the player mindset tend to be "hostile" the moment they see others, and the world in the game also encourage this.

in FF14 however, fight between players are put on the background, the main theme of this game is adventure and fighting together against evil. the setting of this game is "band together" basically it encourage you to be nice and positive toward other player.

i cant put it into words but basically FF14 did not focus like pvp, opposing each other, faction war or anything like that, these make people feel "at ease" and because of that there is no reason to be "jerk/jackass" toward other players. and on top of that everything surrounding FF14 outside combat just scream "having fun/silly stuff" with stuff like playing instrument, housing, furniture, pose, group pose, golden saucer, weird getup, etc.

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I don't think faction wars have anything to do with why players are so hostile in WoW when it comes to player interactions. The design of the game at its core, however, is...as well as the general disdain between players and the dev team, which is the result of the core game design. lol Even so, this game's player base isn't any better depending on where you look, if not arguably worse in certain areas. Just in different ways. I think overall this community is more friendly, but I would never put it up on a pedestal.

To put it simply, it’s only half true.
Just like any MMOs, they have their own fair share of polite and impolite players. Perhaps you just haven’t met the impolite players (hopefully not, but few times this is inevitable). They’re not too common... but they do exist.

Now slightly to the darker side:
”If you have to think you will offend certain somebody with your words, it might be wise to forget about it & type something else or nothing at all.”
A little bit hyperbolic, sure. But doesn’t mean it never happens.

Ffxiv is more mature, huh? Idk, this game is basically twitter lol

Because unlike most western companies SE actually cares about hiring GMs and enforcing their ToS and stopping toxicity at their tracks, meanwhile all big popular games with global chats are cesspools that the devs do nothing about because the western gamer TM has been far to accepting of slurs, hate speech, insults and attacks in general, that thankfully doesnt fly here which leads to a far superior community.

Plus because the game isnt designed to pander to high end only we have less people who are toxic and emotional because their ego depends on video game achievements and performance, FF14 has the rep of "casual" game which is a dirty word for WoW players who obsess over high end so much they become extreme tryhard metaslave elitists, and the dev design that keeps rewarding only high end and giving scraps to casuals and acceptance of addons from dps meters to raider io only leads to a more toxic and terrible community.

This feels like a bait thread but oh well.

This game's community is just as good/bad as most others, it just depends on who you happen to interact with on any given day and verbiage in certain ToS basically makes any interactions outside of your personal friend group a potential risk if you say something that someone just so happens to take offense with and then you have to hope a GM has a level head.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think overall this community is more friendly, but I would never put it up on a pedestal.

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indeed i think the community in this game is much more friendly than wow, but wow itself seems improving a little bit i guess? at least from my view, back in cata days the toxicity even showing in casual dungeon run, now in shadowlands everyone is surprisingly decent in casual dungeon run now, some people still quit the moment we got wiped but at least now they didnt say anything, i even see someone saying stuff like "hello/hi" at the start of dungeon now which for me is a massive improvement lol

i think the influx of new players in both wow and ff14 does shift the community a bit, and thankfully toward positive side, mmorpg back in vanilla days or everquest days is so hard, now? everything is so easy, in wow enemy level is now sync to your level so you can go anywhere and still feel powerful, FF14 give you so many option to get exp from quest, levequest, fate, duty, etc.

now the "hardcore" is much more tolerant at least on casual side

I've been playing MMOs for over 20 years(started back in Everquest before they had their first expansion and really, we can go back even further when I played text based MUDs) and I can honestly say that this community is no different than any other MMO community or any gaming community, for that matter.

While I am sure there are plenty of jerks running around I this game, there is that thread about DF horror stories that is really long, but the ratio does seem to be significantly lower here on FF 14. Now, I have not done content high enough to see the really bad ones yet, but I base my belief that the maturity level is a little higher here on the fact that here in the forums there is just so much less toxicity than there is on the WoW forums. I mean over there someone asks a simple question and they are immediately being insulted within the first five responses. Only thing I can figure is that WoW caters to the hardcore players more than the casuals and it is those higher end players that have those attitudes the most.

It's not. We live in a world ruled by fear of cancellation and alienation for wrong think and this directly correlates with the way the ToS for ffxiv is handled.

Chances are if people are silent it does not mean they don't mind you dying it just means them saying anything is not worth a possible permanent strike against their account.
If you ever get kicked from content in the future with no warning you'll know why now.

also lets not forget each of us here might playing on different time and different server and region, so experience definitely different for each person

in my case i play on jp server and my active time is usually when the general english speaking player (on my jp server) are sleeping so the one who active is usually the "adult" and "family" side, as for the jp people they tend not to say much toward us english speaker aside from simple greeting and auto text, and its not like we understand jp words anyway so most of the time my deal with jp is decent most of the time

WOW has aggressively catered to the worst people in society for years, and FFXIV doesn't. Just scroll through reading the posts about people who don't like getting account strikes for saying things they'd get slapped IRL for saying. That never happens in WOW, it happens in this game. Probably also a large overlap between the people complaining and the people who grew up playing WOW.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

It's not. We live in a world ruled by fear of cancellation and alienation for wrong think and this directly correlates with the way the ToS for ffxiv is handled.

Chances are if people are silent it does not mean they don't mind you dying it just means them saying anything is not worth a possible permanent strike against their account.
If you ever get kicked from content in the future with no warning you'll know why now.

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This is a very real thing right here. You can't even offer people friendly advice on how to improve without "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" in this game. So, it will always be a silent kick instead.

^this really take me back when wow is still at the peak of toxicity and the hardcore players "trend"

i got kicked out of party.... many times.... just because i said "hi/hello this is my first time" or "i'll try my best" at the start of the run

i swear sometimes you cant even be nice to others, even in virtual world lol

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Originally Posted by Raltar

This is a very real thing right here. You can't even offer people friendly advice on how to improve without "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" in this game. So, it will always be a silent kick instead.

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Pretty much this. And even on the rare occasion that something is said, it is usually short and sweet. "Please heal", said my tank earlier in a Dun Scaith run when one healer was dead 90% of the run and the other just stood there 98% of it. Normally I say nothing (in game...) when something goes horribly wrong, but I couldn't help but type a quick "^" to show I agreed with the tank.

I have noticed that the forums can be incredibly immature, but the in-game community generally is mature.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

I have noticed that the forums can be incredibly immature, but the in-game community generally is mature.

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i forgot who but last year or is it 2 years ago, someone post the exact post like you and someone reply with...

"because the mature keep playing the game and having fun, while the immature stop playing the game and keep complaining in the forum" lol

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Originally Posted by gumas

i forgot who but last year or is it 2 years ago, someone post the exact post like you and someone reply with...

"because the mature keep playing the game and having fun, while the immature stop playing the game and keep complaining in the forum" lol

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They are a very familiar face if you've been around long enough. And not the good kind of familiar.

The people aren’t more mature, it’s just the rules are more enforced in this game.

One thing I'd like to point out is that the MMO genre has finally had time to age, and we are finding a lot more older people (who are more likely to be more mature) playing MMOs nowadays than 20 years ago. So that may contribute to the general improvement in the playerbase, because not every player you meet are teenagers and college students who are more likely to have little to no experience in respecting others than people who's worked for decades earning a living and knowing the real world.

Part of it is literal on "maturity".
With the game constantly paying homage to the actually-good FFs of the late 80s and early 90s, you've got a lot of folks pushing 40.
And a few more in their late 20s / early 30s, who played FF11 in its prime back before WoW was really even a thing.

I played FFXI for like 10 years and FF14 for like 8 now. Neither have ever had the toxicity of WoW. Are there toxic people? Yes of course. Is that common? no

With the game constantly paying homage to the actually-good FFs of the late 80s and early 90s, you've got a lot of folks pushing 40.
And a few more in their late 20s / early 30s, who played FF11 in its prime back before WoW was really even a thing.

That's a good point Jennah! A lot of the people in my FC have been playing the FF series for a long time. Some have even played every one of them.

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Originally Posted by qaija

With the game constantly paying homage to the actually-good FFs of the late 80s and early 90s, you've got a lot of folks pushing 40.
And a few more in their late 20s / early 30s, who played FF11 in its prime back before WoW was really even a thing.

That's a good point Jennah! A lot of the people in my FC have been playing the FF series for a long time. Some have even played every one of them.

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I honestly wouldnt say age has that much to do with it because WoW's playerbase is pretty old as well, it is almost always late 20s+ yet the way that playerbase behaves is very different than how the FF14 playerbase behaves.

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Originally Posted by MachaYum

Ffxiv is more mature, huh? Idk, this game is basically twitter lol

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Light is nice and I don't see any twitter snowflakes there.

There are mainly two reasons. The first one isn't really about the maturity, its, as others already said, about the rules. Square takes the rules serious. If people break them, they'll get punished. It may scare some people from saying what they think, but i never heard anything about someone getting punished by stating is opinion in a polite way.

The second reason is the content in this game.

1. PVP

Every game with more than one fix player faction splits the community in two or more. I played Aion for years and did quite a lot PVP there. It creates tension. People are badmouthing others because they are on the other side. Because we are WE, we are better, the others are the enemies. May it be in the forum or in the game (people create characters on both sides but most of them still feel a stronger feeling to one side or another) We dont have that in FF14.

2. story and beginning

The main content in FF14 is the story. It kinda acts as a filter. The game starts VERY slow in almost every aspect (Story, Skills and Fights). A huge chunk of the mindless and aggressive Players arent able to make it through the story. I would even say People who enjoy stories are more likely to be patient, polite and open.

3. Endcontent

compared to other games... there isnt much raiding content at once. A lot of player want more raids, more action, and they want it now. They want to start the game today and want to have enjoyed the raids yesterday already. Other kind of Endcontent is in the game, a lot of them made by the players themselves, but housing, glamour and RP isnt what these black sheeps from other games want.



That being said, i put the people with these reasons kinda in groups.... but if you think about it, it actually tends to be like that. of course, there are always exceptions for everything!

So it doesnt SEEM to have as many black sheeps in FF14 as in other games, but that also leads to another problem. There seem to be more and more people who are offended or hurt rather quickly by minor things. That would kinda be the other opposite and it would almost be more trouble because it would hinder you to communicate with people. (i mean nowadays it is like that in RL too, but that is another discussion)

Player bad mouths the game: everyone comes out defending it

This guy says something nice about it: everyone’s out calling it toxic, immature

Can’t win lol

It really depends on the Datacenter to he honest

As a former WoW player, I don't think FFXIV's community is better than WoW's.

In WoW, you learn to develop a thick skin pretty quickly. People throw words at each other all the time in chat, but all the fragile people were filtered out long ago, or they quickly acclimated to it. Seeing a screenshot of a WoW chat seems shocking to non-WoW players, but once you've acclimated to the environment you don't think too much about it.

The real nice thing about WoW is that people have no tolerance for crap. If someone is under performing, people aren't afraid to call it out and offer advice. If you don't get with the program and take that advice and change what you're doing, you're going to get kicked real fast. People's time is precious and they're not going to waste the few hours they have after work to raid on people messing around.

Contrast that with FFXIV, which has a more fragile demeanor in my experience. People like to act nice... if only because if they say anything remotely negative, they're going to be dogpiled. FFXIV's english fandom seems to have a lot of overlap with the r/Anime fandom, which is a niceness echochamber and creates fragility. People are content to spend hours in party finder carrying people who clearly aren't capable of performing basic mechanical checks, and god forbid kicking them. No one calls out anyone on anything and problems are never addressed.

As a person on another forum said: WoW demands basic player competence. FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I don't think faction wars have anything to do with why players are so hostile in WoW when it comes to player interactions. The design of the game at its core, however, is...as well as the general disdain between players and the dev team, which is the result of the core game design. lol Even so, this game's player base isn't any better depending on where you look, if not arguably worse in certain areas. Just in different ways. I think overall this community is more friendly, but I would never put it up on a pedestal.

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I think that the faction tribalism that Blizzard has encouraged has actually had some effect on some part of the WoW fandom, but not the entire fandom.

Blizzard's bad attitude towards their own customers, however, has really soured the WoW fandom over the past 6 years. I don't think it has made people more assholish towards each other, but definitely made the playerbase more irreverent towards the devs. If the devs won't take their own fans seriously, why should the fans take the devs seriously? There is reason why a lot of the WoW fandom's jokes are at Blizzard's expense, laughing at the devs, not with them.

Whereas the FFXIV fandom seems to have an unhealthy cult revolving around Yoshida and Ishikawa. Feels like a positive feel-good echochamber TBH.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

In WoW, you learn to develop a thick skin pretty quickly. People throw words at each other all the time in chat, but all the fragile people were filtered out long ago, or they quickly acclimated to it.

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Yeah I honestly dont see this as something to be proud of or good, the normalization of insults, attacks, hate speech, slurs in most of western gaming is quite abhorrent which is why FF14 surprised me so much when I realized there's a company who actually cares about its community enough to hire GMs to enforce the ToS instead of let cesspool of global chats reign unopposed.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

People are content to spend hours in party finder carrying people who clearly aren't capable of performing basic mechanical checks, and god forbid kicking them. No one calls out anyone on anything and problems are never addressed.

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Which is a good thing in my view, especially when said content doesnt require everyone to be competent, if everyone was competent there would be no challenge just like there is no real challenge for most mythic bosses in world first where they are roflstomped because everyone is competent enough, I love queing for extremes in duty finder(JP dc) because it is a different game every time, if everyone knew everything and didnt do mistakes it would be an absolutely boring roflstomp

And i am unsure about the "no one calls out ANYTHING", yeah calling out PEOPLE is bad, but calling out problems is not, it is very easy to explain how this mechanic needs to be done by saying "Need avoid overlapping those circles or they can instant kill" unlike WoW's "OMFG NOOB, YOU ARE USELESS, GET OUT, reroll to fotm" which has resulted in a toxic community that rivals the LoL community, and like you said is extremely unfriendly unless you adopt their quite disgusting culture. You have no idea how happy I was to read in the rules "you arent allowed to influence other's playstyle".

Coming from WoW myself, I am really loving how much friendlier and positive this community is and no doubt it is that because of SE's actual concern for stopping toxicity through taking ToS seriously and banning openly talking about dps meters which has helped a lot to pre preemptively deal with a lot of sources of toxicity. Unlike most western companies who let global chats become cesspools because lol hiring GMs will hurt our profits D:

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

As a former WoW player, I don't think FFXIV's community is better than WoW's.

In WoW, you learn to develop a thick skin pretty quickly. People throw words at each other all the time in chat, but all the fragile people were filtered out long ago, or they quickly acclimated to it. Seeing a screenshot of a WoW chat seems shocking to non-WoW players, but once you've acclimated to the environment you don't think too much about it.

The real nice thing about WoW is that people have no tolerance for crap. If someone is under performing, people aren't afraid to call it out and offer advice. If you don't get with the program and take that advice and change what you're doing, you're going to get kicked real fast. People's time is precious and they're not going to waste the few hours they have after work to raid on people messing around.

Contrast that with FFXIV, which has a more fragile demeanor in my experience. People like to act nice... if only because if they say anything remotely negative, they're going to be dogpiled. FFXIV's english fandom seems to have a lot of overlap with the r/Anime fandom, which is a niceness echochamber and creates fragility. People are content to spend hours in party finder carrying people who clearly aren't capable of performing basic mechanical checks, and god forbid kicking them. No one calls out anyone on anything and problems are never addressed.

As a person on another forum said: WoW demands basic player competence. FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it.



I think that the faction tribalism that Blizzard has encouraged has actually had some effect on some part of the WoW fandom, but not the entire fandom.

Blizzard's bad attitude towards their own customers, however, has really soured the WoW fandom over the past 6 years. I don't think it has made people more assholish towards each other, but definitely made the playerbase more irreverent towards the devs. If the devs won't take their own fans seriously, why should the fans take the devs seriously? There is reason why a lot of the WoW fandom's jokes are at Blizzard's expense, laughing at the devs, not with them.

Whereas the FFXIV fandom seems to have an unhealthy cult revolving around Yoshida and Ishikawa. Feels like a positive feel-good echochamber TBH.

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I haven't played WoW but I definitely see the XIV stuff mentioned and completely agree.

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Originally Posted by MoofiaBossVal

In WoW, you learn to develop a thick skin pretty quickly. People throw words at each other all the time in chat, but all the fragile people were filtered out long ago, or they quickly acclimated to it. Seeing a screenshot of a WoW chat seems shocking to non-WoW players, but once you've acclimated to the environment you don't think too much about it.

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I'm just gonna echo chamber the person two posts above and say, this isn't okay. The fact that people actually normalized that kind of treatment is pretty depressing to be honest. You would think you would want to create a positive environment for a game so that all players can feel welcome and find a place rather than having players numb themselves to shitty treatment as a pre-requisite.

The more people die the more fun I have as a healer, honestly. lol
And we all were new once. I prefer 'noobie' parties over that silly rushing.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

The more people die the more fun I have as a healer, honestly. lol
And we all were new once. I prefer 'noobie' parties over that silly rushing.

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Honestly this, what makes fights fun is the fact that people are far from perfect so things arent as predictable, each fight feels a tad big different because of it and in a sense provides a slightly different challenge, dps lacking? Means fight lasts longer and you need to push harder yourself, healing lacking? Means you sometimes have to focus on suitability over dps and use your defensive/heals well, tank lacking? Ok not much you can do then as dps but suprisingly I have found this to be pretty rare unless some boss has some rly tight swaps/mechanics xD

If everyone was competent it would be an absolutely boring roflstomp that is the same every single time.

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Originally Posted by Ralph2449

Which is a good thing in my view, especially when said content doesnt require everyone to be competent, if everyone was competent there would be no challenge just like there is no real challenge for most mythic bosses in world first where they are roflstomped because everyone is competent enough, I love queing for extremes in duty finder(JP dc) because it is a different game every time, if everyone knew everything and didnt do mistakes it would be an absolutely boring roflstomp

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Hello all, please take the above quoted comment as a pinch of salt. This is 1 of the reason why JP ONRY pt exists. You join a party of 7 others without being competent yourself and then waste the time of 7 others just so you can be satisfied is not accepted. You will only be blacklisted so do it at your own risk come 6.0 DC wide travel.