All Bozja content should be easy and the raids should be a roulette w/ big rewards.

Like it or not, Bozja and relics ARE the casual endgame, and in this game casual content has an unlimited lifespan. Look at basically all of the roulettes; even if they stopped adding new dungeons those would never die. Bozja could be insanely popular and last forever if they did it right.

But no, it'll be dead in a couple weeks AGAIN, and the casual players who didn't get everything they needed done on week1 will be locked out of their relic and their endgame.

I do like the idea of extreme challenges being introduced into casual content, but it should be optional and, most importantly, it should be SOLO. I'd hit up every hardcore solo challenge this game offers, but in a raid where I'm only 1/24th of what determines whether the raid succeeds... No... F that... Just make it easy so I can get it done.

They shouldnt be easy. But the biggest problem with Bozja is the rewards. Doing the content outside of Bozja shouldnt be faster than doing it in Bozja. My major gripe with this relic is that they are practically begging you to not be in Bozja and get the relic by doing fates and alliance roulettes.

Something needs to change because in 2 or 3 weeks Bozja will be dead content again. If you didnt do it the first 3 weeks then you will be out of luck.

Nah, there’s more than enough in xiv that’s nerfed. Adjust.

This is exactly what people have been asking for at cap with content that's between normal mode faceroll and savage difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Derio

They shouldnt be easy. But the biggest problem with Bozja is the rewards. Doing the content outside of Bozja shouldnt be faster than doing it in Bozja. My major gripe with this relic is that they are practically begging you to not be in Bozja and get the relic by doing fates and alliance roulettes.

Something needs to change because in 2 or 3 weeks Bozja will be dead content again. If you didnt do it the first 3 weeks then you will be out of luck.

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Exactly. Bozja should be the best way to get the relic, with slower, grindier but easier alternatives. But it's the other way around and is a baffling design decision to me.

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Originally Posted by Derio

They shouldnt be easy. But the biggest problem with Bozja is the rewards. Doing the content outside of Bozja shouldnt be faster than doing it in Bozja. My major gripe with this relic is that they are practically begging you to not be in Bozja and get the relic by doing fates and alliance roulettes.

Something needs to change because in 2 or 3 weeks Bozja will be dead content again. If you didnt do it the first 3 weeks then you will be out of luck.

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It really should have been 75-90% chance from Skirmishes for memories(if not 100%), Critical Engagements should give 2 memories based on which zone they are in, Castrum should give 4-5 of each older memory and 2 of the new per clear, and Delubrum Reginae should give 6-8 of the older memories and 2-3 of the newer.

That would definitely give a LOT more incentive for people to run Castrum more, and do Delubrum more than just a few times/once a week for the weekly quest.

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Originally Posted by Derio

They shouldnt be easy. But the biggest problem with Bozja is the rewards. Doing the content outside of Bozja shouldnt be faster than doing it in Bozja. My major gripe with this relic is that they are practically begging you to not be in Bozja and get the relic by doing fates and alliance roulettes.

Something needs to change because in 2 or 3 weeks Bozja will be dead content again. If you didnt do it the first 3 weeks then you will be out of luck.

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It should be easy, though. It's the raids that die in a week, and the reasons are the difficulty, length and excessive punishments for failure. FATES and CE's haven't had any real participation issues because people actually enjoy them.

It doesn't matter how good you are at this game, there's NOTHING you can do as 1 person in a group of 24 to make a run succeed. Challenging content is for statics, guilds and SOLO instances. It doesn't belong in Bozja and it is exactly what's killing Bozja.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It should be easy, though. It's the raids that die in a week, and the reason is the difficulty and excessive punishments for failure. FATES and CE's haven't had any real participation issues because people actually enjoy them.

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You've got that entirely mixed up.

Castrum is reasonably easy and there's no real punishment to the casual player. FATE's and CE's have higher participation rates because they're simply more rewarding for the time invested. If you're in Bozja for exp for an alt class and/or some relic Memories on the side Castrum is a waste of time for you.

I'd be running lots of Bozja raids if they were actually rewarding. Enix really overestimated how much people would care about the gear.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It should be easy, though. It's the raids that die in a week, and the reason is the difficulty and excessive punishments for failure. FATES and CE's haven't had any real participation issues because people actually enjoy them.

It doesn't matter how good you are at this game, there's NOTHING you can do as 1 person in a group of 24 to make a run succeed. Challenging content is for statics, guilds and SOLO instances. It doesn't belong in Bozja and it is exactly what's killing Bozja.

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In that case any new raid should be nerfed after day one, because people dont know mechanics yet. DR is on the same level as NieR raids. The only thing that seems unattractive is the mettle loss, which is... totally fine. You dont need mettle, your rank doesnt go lower. The only thing you'd need mettle is unlocking savage, which casuals wont do anyway.
Along with the Gabriel mount, new hairstyle, chocobo barding, etc as a RNG reward in DR + the weekly quest (gold coin) for the Judges glam; I doubt it will die anytime soon.
As Derio said, main concern should be the reward system.

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

In that case any new raid should be nerfed after day one, because people dont know mechanics yet. DR is on the same level as NieR raids. The only thing that seems unattractive is the mettle loss, which is... totally fine. You dont need mettle, your rank doesnt go lower. The only thing you'd need mettle is unlocking savage, which casuals wont do anyway.
Along with the Gabriel mount, new hairstyle, chocobo barding, etc as a RNG reward in DR + the weekly quest (gold coin) for the Judges glam; I doubt it will die anytime soon.
As Derio said, main concern should be the reward system.

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People will care about the mettle loss until we know for sure that there aren't going to be any new resistance ranks or mettle requirements before Bozja and the relic end.

Getting rid of the punishments, improving the rewards and throwing both raids into a convenient roulette could save this. As it stands right now it's far less enticing and far more inconvenient than Alliance roulettes, which are the reason why most raids don't die almost immediately. DR will die just as fast as Castrum did; maybe faster because of the difficulty spike.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

You've got that entirely mixed up.

Castrum is reasonably easy and there's no real punishment to the casual player. FATE's and CE's have higher participation rates because they're simply more rewarding for the time invested. If you're in Bozja for exp for an alt class and/or some relic Memories on the side Castrum is a waste of time for you.

I'd be running lots of Bozja raids if they were actually rewarding. Enix really overestimated how much people would care about the gear.

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Castrum has the same excessive mettle punishments, which hurt casual players far more than hardcore ones. Given the time investment and punishments for failure the rewards would have to be absolutely phenomenal for most people to care.

I think simply making it less inconvenient and punishing is a more realistic goal than significant rewards being introduced.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'd be running lots of Bozja raids if they were actually rewarding. Enix really overestimated how much people would care about the gear.

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The only gear I'm interested in, is the Judge gear from the new stuff...but to get the augmented version, you need the augmented version of the older gear plus another item I'm not even sure where to get(iirc, only glanced at the costs of getting them while seeing how they dyed)

If the weapon at current stage turn out at ilevel 535 and best in slot, I don't mind keeping this difficulty, as at current point is worse than putting yourself together doing savage runs that is more or less scripted and does not rely on chance and 'lootboxes'

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Exactly. Bozja should be the best way to get the relic, with slower, grindier but easier alternatives. But it's the other way around and is a baffling design decision to me.

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It makes dispassionate sense.

Two options.

1 gives you 3 strength and 2 agility.
1 gives you 2.5 - 3 agility and 0 strength.

The first option can be, given circumstances, overall better choice. The first option is Bozja.

If you make FATEs equal to or lessor than Bozja then FATEs are 100% the worst choice. Also the difficulty of Bozja, outside of getting bodies to actually do stuff (like the castrum gating progression), is not that much (akin to the S rank hunts). Like Eureka. It's not like Bozja is savage content (in general, yes I know there is literally a savage option lol). So Bozja's difficulty doesn't really justify that it has to be much better when it already has an overall greater wealth than FATEs. People pick FATEs because they either don't know how to farm the content inside Bozja (certain activities reward differently) or their #1 priority was just relic (and not Bozja type content as a whole).

There are opportunities to improve Bozja's rewards (which it looks like SE tried a bit in the recent patch, which again to me says they're trying to do stuff (hence why in another post I said I feel sympathy)), but to suggest that FATEs (outside of Bozja) have to be worse or equal to the same rate as relic inside Bozja while Bozja ALSO provides other rewards on top of that and isn't necessarily that difficult... seems like "no, that's not right - that isn't really that fair". May suggest why it was even an option in the first place, which to say was clearly it was requested by quite a few people who didn't like Eureka in the first place (yet they also kind of boned those players in their recent move lol, so SE is not getting points from either side in some situations.. XD).

Thing is, apparently, this type of content has a very hard time justifying itself if it doesn't have relic because the rest of it is only "sort of worth it". People are clearly not doing it simply because of the fun of it (enough so at least that the content is having body troubles, not speaking for every person as an individual), or the other glamour potentials. I think that in and of itself speaks to the whole Eureka and Bozja design (for players at large). Naturally less bodies in the instance causes problems for those who do like it, but I guess I'm slightly reticent on the concept that if people don't prefer to do something that therefore you must force them to do it "for the good of the people" sort of thing (not that I'm completely against the concept, but I would need convincing for this particular situation- as I said.. reticent).

If anything I see a lot of people upset with the newer parts that force people to continue to use Bozja to relic, some of it due to castrum naturally but it looks like many who comment didn't really want to deal with that all in the first place.

I actually want to agree with Goji that Eureka like content would probably be better if they had made it more casual friendly (OR, not agree and say it should have been more hardcore and narrowed down in target audience- but SE needs to target an audience), perhaps less people in general (to reduce the zerg aspect) but still keep a ebb and flow of players running about while many things are achievable with much smaller groups (like castrum licky licky with 4 - 8 people). I think it's rather uncool to ask for relatively 'achievable' content (in a sense "easy", like most MSQ) but having watched many MMOs I think that is literally the most popular and desired type of content that constantly gets begged to be brought to those levels if not already. That is "the content" that most people do. You can see it simply by the achievements, very few people actually do hard content - especially on the chaotic western side where we can hardly agree on strategies for content lol (unified strategies make content 'easier', we just do poorly at that as an average group..). Because there are already ultimate and savage type gears I do think that the content goal of relic should absolutely be under the concept of "achievable" (general sense "easy"), especially as the relic is designed to lag behind most content (until the very very end).

To bring it full circle, if Bozja is to be FOR RELIC, which would increase the desire to do it obviously (as it seems that is a major reason people didn't do it for the first step, Bozja isn't enough of it's own value without it to get enough bodies to make it over the gate), then I think Bozja should be designed for casuals (that doesn't mean it has to lose all the goofy flavor, but certain concepts could absolutely be cut and or re-progression pathed and be a gain for that casual audience). Although as I said I don't think Eureka and relics have to be tied together, in which case Eureka can be as obtuse as it wants but then relic should absolutely maintain an entirely valid secondary path (like FATEs were in the first step of relic). If Eureka cannot validate itself outside of being the only good option for relics then I think that is a statement on the content itself (because it's not like it doesn't offer a wide array of other benefits- from unique gameplay that is different than the core usual experience, leveling and even glamours to mounts which some can be sold for gil, and more). Bozja is not just relics, but many people talk about it like that's the only reason to do it "bozja is bad because people are not forced to do it for relics" is the essence of what I read a lot of- to me that just reads as "bozja is bad because other people don't have to do what they didn't want to do".

A lot of decent reward concepts from the content but it seems like there is only one whistle wet enough to get people to want to do it and that's why people are not 'in the content' (relics), that's not a good comment on the situation - and to me speaks to the content itself as a whole rather than "SE did wrong by not forcing relic into the content". I would also balance that comment against the concept that not everything needs to be designed for "everyone" / "the general majority" but what and how much you put where becomes important then.

Ultimately though it seems clear that Eureka's design (3.0, if that) needs to find a better fixed target audience goal (either it'll be generally quite casual friendly or perhaps even more hardcore- but then I don't think relic should be strictly tied to it, if people can't get over a split relationship then it should be removed from Eureka 3.0 entirely as I think that is an unhealthy expectation, the math of FATEs being equal or worse devalues the work for someone who doesn't like Bozja while Bozja is not 'that' hard- like S rank hunts are not really that hard). Something is off and it seems both parties are upset (casual and not). Casual/'modern era' MMO players want to take their ball else where, or change the stadium's structure, and medium-hardcore want to make it a bad choice to do that and force the casual to go into their stadium (with many, from what I've read, wanting some of the systems that Eureka 1.0 used). There is a fundamental of player difference between the two, neither are entirely right or wrong (99% opinions), but naturally on top of a structural issue there is also some design issues like castrum having entrance problems (needs too many people OR just isn't valuable enough, I imagine that castrum is salt in the wound making all of these problems bigger for everyone- as both parties suffer at the gates of castrum and other body count gates, although with slightly different end goals in mind).

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Nah, there’s more than enough in xiv that’s nerfed. Adjust.

This is exactly what people have been asking for at cap with content that's between normal mode faceroll and savage difficulty.

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And that content exists.

It's EX trials and POTD/HOH top floors.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And that content exists.

It's EX trials and POTD/HOH top floors.

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Okay, but I want a Deep Dungeon where I can use all my level 80 skills. :'(

(I recognize Bozja is the equivalent for this expansion when it comes to leveling. I am even insane enough to enjoy Bozja. But I love roguelikes and I have people I regularly run the Deep Dungeons with, and so the lack of a current endgame Deep Dungeon does still give me Large Sads.)

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And that content exists.

It's EX trials and POTD/HOH top floors.

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It's Bozja now, too. Keep it that way; too many got accustomed to free relics.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

It's Bozja now, too. Keep it that way; too many got accustomed to free relics.

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Back in my (our) day we got relics for hecking the bed!

The main issue with Bozja is the time commitment required for certain rewards, and it being a suboptimal path to getting the relic.

The difficulty is completely fine; If my SO can get through Castrum death free while playing this game for maybe 3-4 hours a week in total, anyone can. She legitimately plays this game at a 'pushing random buttons' level of casual, but still managed to pilot her character through all of Bozja. If anyone is finding Bozja prohibitively difficult, I'm genuinely concerned for them >.>

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Originally Posted by Avatre

The only gear I'm interested in, is the Judge gear from the new stuff...but to get the augmented version, you need the augmented version of the older gear plus another item I'm not even sure where to get(iirc, only glanced at the costs of getting them while seeing how they dyed)

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the items you need to hand in with the two sets of gear for the dyeable judge gear is from Delubrium savage.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

It's Bozja now, too. Keep it that way; too many got accustomed to free relics.

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Tbf I actually liked the "free" relics. Call me crazy but I like that there was a weapon option for the classes that I don't play often enough that I can justify spending gil on a crafted weapon. I'm sure that many casual players who only logged on to play occasionally also felt the same way about having an easy to get catch-up weapon.

I think that a lot of people who want the relics to be hard to get because they're gated by more difficult content forget that elitism comes at the cost of the enjoyment of the average "casual" player. Especially in the case of suddenly gatekeeping previously casual friendly items like the Bozja relics.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

the items you need to hand in with the two sets of gear for the dyeable judge gear is from Delubrium savage.

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Ah, so a low drop chance item like the upgrade items from Castrum then.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Tbf I actually liked the "free" relics. Call me crazy but I like that there was a weapon option for the classes that I don't play often enough that I can justify spending gil on a crafted weapon. I'm sure that many casual players who only logged on to play occasionally also felt the same way about having an easy to get catch-up weapon.

I think that a lot of people who want the relics to be hard to get because they're gated by more difficult content forget that elitism comes at the cost of the enjoyment of the average "casual" player. Especially in the case of suddenly gatekeeping previously casual friendly items like the Bozja relics.

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They shouldn't simply be "free" considering that they are not just catch-up weapons but end up being the best weapons available towards the end of the expansion.

The differences with HW's relics however (we don't talk about ARR because that was just painful) was that you could basically progress your relic by just playing the game however you wanted. Sure it was actually an even worse grind, but it was a grind you were already doing anyway by simply playing the game. Now you're forced to do a very specific type of content and you can not progress the relic with the content you want to do or when you want to do it, because you run the risk of being too late to the party. Granted Eureka had the same issue and it was bad for almost the exact same reasons, the only difference being that all you had to do was NMs and since they scaled to the amount of players in the zone you never hit an actual roadblock.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Like it or not, Bozja and relics ARE the casual endgame, and in this game casual content has an unlimited lifespan. Look at basically all of the roulettes; even if they stopped adding new dungeons those would never die. Bozja could be insanely popular and last forever if they did it right.

But no, it'll be dead in a couple weeks AGAIN, and the casual players who didn't get everything they needed done on week1 will be locked out of their relic and their endgame.

I do like the idea of extreme challenges being introduced into casual content, but it should be optional and, most importantly, it should be SOLO. I'd hit up every hardcore solo challenge this game offers, but in a raid where I'm only 1/24th of what determines whether the raid succeeds... No... F that... Just make it easy so I can get it done.

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Relics have never been casual. They have been accessible. Big difference.

What I’m getting from this thread is you want SE give everyone a relic for afking in limsa by the retainer bell and playing meme songs on bard.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I do like the idea of extreme challenges being introduced into casual content, but it should be optional and, most importantly, it should be SOLO. I'd hit up every hardcore solo challenge this game offers, but in a raid where I'm only 1/24th of what determines whether the raid succeeds... No... F that... Just make it easy so I can get it done.

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I did the raid (normal) and I had a blast. We cleared everything on the first try and like half the people got the first try achievement. Are you honestly telling me that this equates to an [extreme challenge]?

Why aren't we allowed to have mid tier content? It's either Savage or Sastasha. How about we get more middle ground? I don't want to watch a guide and practice for a few days but I do t want to face roll either. Bozja is finally something that's slightly challenging.
Was so much fun.

My issue is the gate that is lacus litore. No one does it because it's a one clear and never do it again mission. They should've given it that weekly quest like the new one to help get people through so they aren't SoL for being late to the bozdja party.

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Originally Posted by Vickii

Relics have never been casual. They have been accessible. Big difference.

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I don't see what's so accessible about locking relics behind content that'll be dead in a month or two

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I don't see what's so accessible about locking relics behind content that'll be dead in a month or two

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I mean they’ve been accessible in the way that anyone can do them regardless of skill.

But they’ve never been casual. Eureka was a similar thing with content that had a lifespan. And the original ARR relics had horrific drop rates. But they could effectively be done by all.

If you want a casual weapon, it’s the Eden tomestone one. Log in once a week, afk while DF people kill four bosses for you, get your weapon.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

My issue is the gate that is lacus litore. No one does it because it's a one clear and never do it again mission. They should've given it that weekly quest like the new one to help get people through so they aren't SoL for being late to the bozdja party.

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Yep, this is the main issue with Bozja and has been from the start. Their ‘fix’ isn’t nearly enough.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

My issue is the gate that is lacus litore. No one does it because it's a one clear and never do it again mission. They should've given it that weekly quest like the new one to help get people through so they aren't SoL for being late to the bozdja party.

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Agreed. Castrum needs a weekly too, one that can guarantee tokens (a new kind) that can go towards the Bozjan Runner's upgrade items. 2 weeks for helm/gloves/boots, and 3 weeks for chest/legs would be a good way to do it IMO. Also make it so Castrum is queued into from inside/outside Bozja like Delebrum.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

They shouldn't simply be "free" considering that they are not just catch-up weapons but end up being the best weapons available towards the end of the expansion.

The differences with HW's relics however (we don't talk about ARR because that was just painful) was that you could basically progress your relic by just playing the game however you wanted. Sure it was actually an even worse grind, but it was a grind you were already doing anyway by simply playing the game. Now you're forced to do a very specific type of content and you can not progress the relic with the content you want to do or when you want to do it, because you run the risk of being too late to the party. Granted Eureka had the same issue and it was bad for almost the exact same reasons, the only difference being that all you had to do was NMs and since they scaled to the amount of players in the zone you never hit an actual roadblock.

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Exactly! You didn't have to take all your game and only focus on this one place and grind it in only this specific way. You had options. You logged on and did your normal thing and you made some progress. You did this one daily quest each day to get this specific item. That made it very friendly to the casual playerbase these were intended for, since they could have limited time but could still progress through the grind over a longer amount of time than through something like Extreme or Savage weapons. And they weren't locked to time limited content. You can go back now and do your ARR and your HW weapons a little at a time, piece by piece, a bit easier than when they were current, but completely at your own pace. That is not true with Eureka and Bozja.

Rewards just need to be a bit better to incentivize people to run, like, Castrum regularly.

The difficulty is fine, IMO. Dying in Castrum isn't as big of a deal as people say, outside of just losing some mettle that stops mattering after rank 15. Only Savage Bozja has the resurrection restrictions (and even then, Lost Arise + the passive revive item and healer LB3 work).

Only reason the content itself will die is when something newer and shinier replaces it and the rewards are no longer relevant, or it holds no re-playable value in getting cosmetic items (or getting and selling cosmetic items). Once people get all they want from it, they tend to stop running it.

And those Discord communities tend to last after the content generally expires, making completion still possible if a little annoying due to signing up via a queue and coordinating via PF.

I'd rather have something that at least makes me pay some modicum of attention, if all content were like current day LoTA this would barely be a game at that point. And, with the variance of objectives I have in Bozja (Leveling, Clusters, Fragments, Augments, Coins) I feel like I'm working towards multiple ends instead of grinding pretty... uninteresting dungeons incessantly just for the poetics to spend on a weapon.

Personally I prefer this system, despite the flaws present. I find it more engaging and fun, even if the issue with rewards will likely be a sticking point later on.

Different strokes, I spose.

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Originally Posted by Alaray

I'd rather have something that at least makes me pay some modicum of attention, if all content were like current day LoTA this would barely be a game at that point. And, with the variance of objectives I have in Bozja (Leveling, Clusters, Fragments, Augments, Coins) I feel like I'm working towards multiple ends instead of grinding pretty... uninteresting dungeons incessantly just for the poetics to spend on a weapon.

Personally I prefer this system, despite the flaws present. I find it more engaging and fun, even if the issue with rewards will likely be a sticking point later on.

Different strokes, I spose.

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That and the story brings back some coil vibes so some players (like myself) actually want to help players get through it, not just to help new players get onto the next step of the relic but the story as well. Nobody is serious enough to give that excuse for getting people through Eureka/BA minus the achievment and shiver emote. And after clearing Castrum and walk into Delubrum really brought a sense of "wow. I'm with players who cleared a previous big trial that required extensive communication. We really are the frontline explorers". So with us, our run was pretty straightforward and well coordinated(being a MT hroth for it was epic too imo ^^;). Our player skill from clearing Castrum was taken into consideration for Delebrum but with a more condensed party with strict trial and error. I just want more interesting rewards to sped coins/clusters on like the emotes (since no haircuts T_T) and cosmetic gear based on Bozjan culture. For the relic, it was icing on the cake since in the end you were still ilv sync. Maybe like with Eureka some additional stats or effects could apply in Bozja. The main concept is nice and decently engaging for me but I would'nt mind more improvements for rewards and make Castrum pop easier with a weekly mettle cushion quest ala Delebrum

Castrim REALLY needs to increase drop rate of augments and add a 50k mettle reward at the end

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Originally Posted by Duskane

Castrim REALLY needs to increase drop rate of augments and add a 50k mettle reward at the end

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Castrum simply needs a DF option before anything.

For the love of god SE do not nerf the fights, just add an option to be able to queue for castrum(just like DR) and add maybe some other rewards to DR (aside from silver coins, the mount,last relic materials and the hairstyle).

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Originally Posted by OrpheusKappa

For the love of god SE do not nerf the fights, just add an option to be able to queue for castrum(just like DR) and add maybe some other rewards to DR (aside from silver coins, the mount,last relic materials and the hairstyle).

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The fights aren't bad per se, but you have to depend on groups that are separated from each other during the fight.

On the first battle you can still mitigate the progress gap by adjusting the DPS, but on the one where you have to put your faith on a single group to deal with the beastmaster at top (which is basically a DPS/Survival check) and the group fails, it wipes the whole raid.

And I have seen my share of self-proclaimed 'DPS Groups' that either fail the check or get their bodies tossed back into the arena, with the raid getting killed soon after. And that gets people upset and really agitated, thus quitting the run.

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Tbf I actually liked the "free" relics. Call me crazy but I like that there was a weapon option for the classes that I don't play often enough that I can justify spending gil on a crafted weapon. I'm sure that many casual players who only logged on to play occasionally also felt the same way about having an easy to get catch-up weapon.

I think that a lot of people who want the relics to be hard to get because they're gated by more difficult content forget that elitism comes at the cost of the enjoyment of the average "casual" player. Especially in the case of suddenly gatekeeping previously casual friendly items like the Bozja relics.

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It isn't elitism to ask what will become the best weapon this expansion to require more than "roll your face across your keyboard". Your easy catch up weapon for alt jobs is crafted, Tome or Primal. All three are more than adequate, especially for jobs you admittedly aren't going to play often. The crafted weapons alone are vastly overpowered for any content outside Savage or Ultimate. And come 5.5, the crafted weapons can all be augmented to i520 for practically nothing. That is the casual option.

The issue is they added harder content without offering justifiable rewards for completing it. Obtaining the Augmented Judge sets are absurd, and the relics themselves are inconsistent mess when it comes to farming for all the drops. They need to better incentivize Bozja while also adding more additional methods outside of it that aren't also the most efficient option.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

It isn't elitism to ask what will become the best weapon this expansion to require more than "roll your face across your keyboard". Your easy catch up weapon for alt jobs is crafted, Tome or Primal. All three are more than adequate, especially for jobs you admittedly aren't going to play often. The crafted weapons alone are vastly overpowered for any content outside Savage or Ultimate. And come 5.5, the crafted weapons can all be augmented to i520 for practically nothing. That is the casual option.

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Yes and the ex primal / savage raid / ultimate raid are the hardcore options. Just leave the relic alone please, I love easy faceroll content wich I can grind for hours.
(Well, I still hate Bozja. Grinding dungeons in ARR and HW was much more fun)

I don't like difficult content. But I want something to do. Running expert roulette 5 times a week and get a weapon as a reward doesn't keep me entertained.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Yes and the ex primal / savage raid / ultimate raid are the hardcore options. Just leave the relic alone please, I love easy faceroll content wich I can grind for hours.
(Well, I still hate Bozja. Grinding dungeons in ARR and HW was much more fun)

I don't like difficult content. But I want something to do. Running expert roulette 5 times a week and get a weapon as a reward doesn't keep me entertained.

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It takes 8 clears to farm a Savage weapon (if you are unlucky). Outside of that, there's very few reasons to continue playing in Savage. Content from previous patches is dead, no one wants to go there and most Savage players just go to the new raids. Trying to do e1s-e8s in pf will make you wait hours for maybe 1 run and ppl might stop.

Extreme is still alive thanks to mounts, but if you don't like to do them 99x times (if you are unlucky), it's not worth it.10 clears for the weapons btw and getting the most recent raid is again the best thing to do.

Some players will gladly take relics as an excuse to go into Savage or extreme again. The only thing needed is a reward worth the effort.

I'd like to see the relics guive some options to everyone tbh.

The difficulty is not fine for content that's meant to be run repeatedly with random groups. Can you honestly say that reteaching the mechanics to every new group, in an instance that can take over an hour to complete, isn't going to get old pretty much immediately for most of this community? Add the fact that you're pretty much guaranteed to eat significant mettle loss and we have content that may not even survive until the end of this week.

It's dumb. This community is not nearly as tough as it talks; you praise difficult content and avoid it like the plague at the same time. This content will be abandoned by this community so fast it'll be comical, and all of this "yay! challenging mid tier content!" will prove to be nothing but hot air. Meanwhile MSQ roulette will still be running strong 5 years from now.

Just make it easy so it will be alive long enough for casual players to actually get a chance to play through it.