Is anyon else tired of Ascians story?

The game's Ascians story was a bit interesting, but we already got to the point where it is tired, is like the creators ran out of ideas.
I would love to see other more creative stories.

I have no idea where you're coming from on this, and not just in a "can't relate" way.

Either way, dont frets. The Zodoark storyline will be coming to a close in 6.x or 7.x, so the game will move on to something different for you soon.

I think they realized that, which is why 6.x is supposedly going to put an end to their story arc.

It would not surprise me if they continue to be an occasional nuisance even if they aren't the main antagonists anymore, though. We've already seen multiple opting to pursue their own agendas in the absence of the unsundered so unless they somehow get wiped out in one fell swoop in the aftermath of 6.x MSQ, they're liable to continue stirring up trouble.

I personally am not. The further we go in the story, the more interesting it gets and the more I want to know.

I want to know more about the old world, I want to know more about Azem, I want WoL to regain some memories and find the rest of the pieces of their soul. That is probably wishful thinking though unless they either send us to visit every shard or find other ways to put our soul back together.

The antagonists in this game are inherently more interesting to me than the bland fare we get elsewhere. Limsa Lominsa used to intrigue me, for example, since pirates are fun, interesting and a classic trope in fantasy settings. Yet the recent patch made it clear that anything remotely controversial or 'gritty' is at risk of being eroded away almost completely.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The antagonists in this game are inherently more interesting to me than the bland fare we get elsewhere. Limsa Lominsa used to intrigue me, for example, since pirates are fun, interesting and a classic trope in fantasy settings. Yet the recent patch made it clear that anything remotely controversial or 'gritty' is at risk of being eroded away almost completely.

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This. Anyway, I think the Ascian arc has sort of come to an end already, with Elidibus and Emet-Selch now gone. I thought Fandaniel's re-branding as "Telophoroi" (bringers of the end) marked that, since it's squarely at odds with the true Ascian agenda, which it seems many of the sundered ones were on board with given the strength of the crystals the unsundered used to re-kindle their original memories. Their aim was always destruction of the present, shattered world because that's what was necessary to restore the Source to its full self, whereas Fandaniel just wants chaos for its own sake. I'm much keener to see the end of Zenos and Fandaniel at this point, so we can move onto something more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I'm much keener to see the end of Zenos and Fandaniel at this point, so we can move onto something more interesting.

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Agreed. Antagonists intrigue me, as they often have sympathetic and understandable motives. Villains with no redeeming qualities, however, quickly overstay their welcome. Worse yet, there isn't even the benefit of them doing anything interesting most of the time - I'd be very surprised if these 'scary' towers end up being an actual threat given that there's now conveniently a cure for Tempering.

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Originally Posted by SoulsGuardian

The game's Ascians story was a bit interesting, but we already got to the point where it is tired, is like the creators ran out of ideas.
I would love to see other more creative stories.

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I think i understand you, everytime a new Ascian comes with some hidden motives to ultimately be defeated by us, the structure feels the same, just the developement from introduction to disappearance is different, but still Asciians wanting the same thing
I'm not playing the game for it's story so i deal with it

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Originally Posted by Masked-dingus

I think i understand you, everytime a new Ascian comes with some hidden motives to ultimately be defeated by us, the structure feels the same, just the developement from introduction to disappearance is different, but still Asciians wanting the same thing
I'm not playing the game for it's story so i deal with it

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Exactly. it gets boring to aways have ascians behind it.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The antagonists in this game are inherently more interesting to me than the bland fare we get elsewhere. Limsa Lominsa used to intrigue me, for example, since pirates are fun, interesting and a classic trope in fantasy settings. Yet the recent patch made it clear that anything remotely controversial or 'gritty' is at risk of being eroded away almost completely.

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Saying the game is moving away from controversy or "grit" in the same patch children were torturing a man with a Branding Iron is so laughable it makes my head hurt.

The game isn't afraid of grit, the Limsa plotline is just moving in the direction it was pointed towards from the games start. Limsa had already moved from Pirates to Privateers. This shift was set up from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Slatersev

Saying the game is moving away from controversy or "grit" in the same patch children were torturing a man with a Branding Iron is so laughable it makes my head hurt.

The game isn't afraid of grit, the Limsa plotline is just moving in the direction it was pointed towards from the games start. Limsa had already moved from Pirates to Privateers. This shift was set up from the beginning.

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I was speaking of grit in the context of interesting flaws, not Saturday morning cartoon style evil for the sake of evil. We can agree to disagree in that Limsa was set to go in a specific direction. It was largely ignored in favour of Ul'dah getting the lion's share of attention out of the three base city states.

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Originally Posted by Masked-dingus

I think i understand you, everytime a new Ascian comes with some hidden motives to ultimately be defeated by us, the structure feels the same, just the developement from introduction to disappearance is different, but still Asciians wanting the same thing
I'm not playing the game for it's story so i deal with it

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Well he doesn't want the same thing really (restoration of the sundered world), he just wants destruction for the sake of it, in an almost suicidal manner. He's not materially different to Zenos in that they both seem to be doing it for thrills. Nonetheless, this pattern is going to be adopted for any antagonist regardless, so unless they drastically change their MO, you'll be dealing with it for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Slatersev

Saying the game is moving away from controversy or "grit" in the same patch children were torturing a man with a Branding Iron is so laughable it makes my head hurt.

The game isn't afraid of grit, the Limsa plotline is just moving in the direction it was pointed towards from the games start. Limsa had already moved from Pirates to Privateers. This shift was set up from the beginning.

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It's just cartoonish villainy for the sake of it, neatly tucked away in optional sidequest content. Meanwhile in the MSQ, a cure for tempering is devised in the same patch that hints at a tempered minion about to strike Lyse. Scarcely gritty.

I guess all that remains is Gridania and its Elementals and how they treat Duskwights and Keeper miqo'tes.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The antagonists in this game are inherently more interesting to me than the bland fare we get elsewhere. Limsa Lominsa used to intrigue me, for example, since pirates are fun, interesting and a classic trope in fantasy settings. Yet the recent patch made it clear that anything remotely controversial or 'gritty' is at risk of being eroded away almost completely.

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They could still introduce a pirate expansion on the high seas with heavy Lominsan involvement.
It just likely would be out of Limsa itself since that's mostly under control.

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Originally Posted by SoulsGuardian

The game's Ascians story was a bit interesting, but we already got to the point where it is tired, is like the creators ran out of ideas.
I would love to see other more creative stories.

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Sooo
2.0: Yeah man annoying
3.0: What is the point of these guys?
4.0 OMG NOT AGAIN
5.0: Grown man tears...best mmo story in years

So no I am fine with them because as you can see above there is always a long game from these lore writers.

We really lobotomized the Ascian threat in 5.3. Part of why the Ascians were so dangerous was because the Unsundered Ascians could use the Convocation Memory Stones to cause Ascians to remember their old memories of Amarot. As of 5.3, those stones are now gone and no Ascian can ever be raised up to full strength. At worst, they'll be the low-power versions in black masks... which can't possess living people and can be killed by... normal people.

The real power behind the Ascians is Zodiark though and we know that 6.0 is going to be the last part off the Zoidark/Hydaelyn conflict. The entire 1.0 to 6.0 "main story arc" will be about ending the Ascian threat for good most likely.

In before 7.0 introduces a new threat and new main villain, but keeps one or more of the Ascians alive just to be the "wild cards" of the story.

The Ascian threat is really mute and pointless right now.
Since we killed the most powerful one their story arc lost all the interest.
Fandaniel and Zenos are boring villains.
Also the Empire no longer poses an active threat as it crumbles and falls by its own weight and the chaos Zenos started.
I would like to see more Hydaelyn and Zodiark though. We are far from done with them.
I would also like to see Meracydia and the New World continents.
A subterranean kingdom/ areas with Duskwights is missing from the game.
Duskwights are really left out and forgotten.
They have an opportunity to create a really interesting story with a villain out of our grasp with the "Voice" that corrupted the Ancients.
5.0 raised the bar a lot. I hope the next patch will be as intriguing and interesting as 5.0

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Sooo
2.0: Yeah man annoying
3.0: Thordan and Nidhogg are the real villians, ascians relegated to the sidelines
4.0 No direct ascian involvement, indirect involvement left out until the 4.1-4.5 patch quests
5.0: Grown man tears...best mmo story in years

So no I am fine with them because as you can see above there is always a long game from these lore writers.

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FTFY /10char

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Originally Posted by Riardon

The Ascian threat is really mute and pointless right now.
Since we killed the most powerful one their story arc lost all the interest.
Fandaniel and Zenos are boring villains.
Also the Empire no longer poses an active threat as it crumbles and falls by its own weight and the chaos Zenos started.
I would like to see more Hydaelyn and Zodiark though. We are far from done with them.
I would also like to see Meracydia and the New World continents.
A subterranean kingdom/ areas with Duskwights is missing from the game.
Duskwights are really left out and forgotten.
They have an opportunity to create a really interesting story with a villain out of our grasp with the "Voice" that corrupted the Ancients.
5.0 raised the bar a lot. I hope the next patch will be as intriguing and interesting as 5.0

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We're about to be done with them. It was confirmed that their stuff will be done by 6.3. So in terms of the Ascian plot, we're basically at endgame. Meaning we only have 5 major patches (expansion included) left until they and the Ascians are permanently dealt with.

I like Ascians in MSQ up until 5.0, and here and there when they have been meddling.
I am getting a bit tired of the shift we had since Emet Selch were the game tries to give them a bit more depth and while it did work on Emet, I think it fell flat for Elidibus or the Mitron Loghrif bit we had in Eden. I have absolutely no interest in neither Zenos nor Fandaniel right now, so I'm only curious about the end of the Hydealyn / Zodiark story and that's about it.

I don't think FFXIV will have another big story ark running for multiple expansions, and I'd be far happier with smaller self contained arks that last for an expansion. They aren't that good with keeping long plot points updated (Elidibus and Zenos mostly) relevant, but I love the little story bubbles like 5.0, or 4.2 / 4.3 with the end of the Doman storyline.
The Ascians honestly felt lackluster in the whole 2.X to 4.4 (or 4.5 ? when we learn about them being behind Garlemald in the first place), sometimes tying them back in because they weren't involved for some time felt a bit awkward (understand : all scenes with Elidibus mumbling on the moon, shaking his fist to hydealyn). I was very disappointed to see them appear in Eden, I felt it was lazy.

I was fine with how it played out in Shadowbringers' story arc (4.4 - 5.3); my main problem with the Ascians was how they were basically the Illuminati beforehand: always responsible for whatever new ill was plaguing the world, but too powerful to kill outright so fights against them felt largely pointless. Add in the fact they just tease us with knowledge of what's really going on with every appearance, and it gets downright frustrating they don't just tell us the truth (even Emet-Selch needed prompting in the form of the Ronkan murals).

I am cautiously optimistic about what's coming. On the one hand both Zenos and Fandaniel are pretty boring right now. On the other, that gives them potential moving forward, though between Zenos' absolute apathy toward everything other than his long sought-after rematch with the PC and Fandaniel's omnicidal intentions I have a pretty hard time believing anything particularly interesting is going to come of them.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The real power behind the Ascians is Zodiark though and we know that 6.0 is going to be the last part off the Zoidark/Hydaelyn conflict. The entire 1.0 to 6.0 "main story arc" will be about ending the Ascian threat for good most likely.

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The issue I have is that we had the actual heart of Zodiark come down and go "my plans and goals are beyond your understanding" and when we actually asked him what those plans were, he went "I have no idea who I am or why I'm here, I only know that I must fight".

I'm not confident that Zodiark's ultimate goal (beyond the immediate Rejoinings) is any more coherent than Elidibus's. Like, Zodiark had a chance to communicate his viewpoint to us by sending a spokesperson, and that spokesperson was senile.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

The issue I have is that we had the actual heart of Zodiark come down and go "my plans and goals are beyond your understanding" and when we actually asked him what those plans were, he went "I have no idea who I am or why I'm here, I only know that I must fight".

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I mean, he wasn't wrong. If even he couldn't understand his plans and goals, how could we ever hope to?

But yeah, I'm not expecting anything more than Blind Idiot God behavior from Zodiark at this point.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

I mean, he wasn't wrong. If even he couldn't understand his plans and goals, how could we ever hope to?

But yeah, I'm not expecting anything more than Blind Idiot God behavior from Zodiark at this point.

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I assume Zodiark is more of a power MacGuffin for Fandaniel or someone else to channel or absorb/pilot by this point.

Well since I have been dealing with ascians since 2010 in one form or another, yes. But if I could have kept Emet Selch alive and kicking I would have. He was an amazing antagonist, and much like Yotsuyu and Iceheart, was killed off much too quickly. They seem to like to do that though, create these amazing villains and kill them off real quick while the bland and annoying ones who would make headlines repeatedly on cringetopia *cough Zenos cough* they just refuse to get rid of. Even in the post emet storyline, they seemed to be working toward something with Elidibus, then just killed him off for a completely ridiculous, over the top, overused trope character in the form of fandanial. The conflict with Elidibus could have easily lasted another expac which could have been ended with what so many have been waiting for... moving the battle to garlemald which culminates in the fight against zodiarc and the fall of the empire. But noooooooooo.

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Originally Posted by SoulsGuardian

The game's Ascians story was a bit interesting, but we already got to the point where it is tired, is like the creators ran out of ideas.
I would love to see other more creative stories.

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Not really. Considering that...

...we are an Ascian as well.

So, unless that gets retconned, Ascians are here to stay in some form until the game is shut down.

While the Ascians were an antagonistic organization up to this point, I don't think it will remain so. Without leadership, the sundered Ascians will choose different paths, so we might end up finding allies among the remaining Ascians, ones that oppose Fandaniel's mad nihilistic plans.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Not really. Considering that...

...we are an Ascian as well.

So, unless that gets retconned, Ascians are here to stay in some form until the game is shut down.

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I think you have misunderstood the what makes an "Ascian". Although like the Ascians, the WOL is a reincarnated Ancient soul, but very much unlike the Ascians, the WOL is not tempered to Zodiark. It's the latter that makes you an "Ascian," not the former.

But the issue with Ascians being here to stay is really a plurality problem. There are at least 13 of them, and we've only put about half of them to the sword. There will always be more of them for the foreseeable future.

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but very much unlike the Ascians, the WOL is not tempered to Zodiark. It's the latter that makes you an "Ascian," not the former.

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We have no real evidence that the sundered Ascians are tempered. Fandaniel's behavior would suggest just the opposite, really.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

We have no real evidence that the sundered Ascians are tempered. Fandaniel's behavior would suggest just the opposite, really.

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Didn't Emet at some point mention that "of course" Zodiark tempered them as he's a primal? Can't remember the full original sentence from him though so can't say for sure if he meant only the unsundered or every Ascian.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

We have no real evidence that the sundered Ascians are tempered. Fandaniel's behavior would suggest just the opposite, really.

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There is no real evidence that they are not tempered. Emet stated they were. That being said, he can be seen as an unreliable source.

Furthermore, I'm not sure we can take a villain (Fandaniel) who has had 4 scenes of screen time as proof he isn't tempered. What we can take from his limited screen time is that is up to something bigger, and that clearly involves Zodiark, so even though this isn't the best evidence, how can say you he definitively isn't tempered?

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Originally Posted by Kesey

There is no real evidence that they are not tempered. Emet stated they were. That being said, he can be seen as an unreliable source.

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I took it as the Convocation was tempered, before the whole Hydaelyn stuff. We can't be sure if fragments of the once tempered soul stays tempered after the sundering or not. After Eden I'd say it's more in favor of "no, they're not". That, of course, if Emet was saying the truth about them being tempered in the first place.

They used to be as boring as ...well Zenos with just being harbingers of chaos cuz “we evil” *spoilers*

ARR taught us they are immortal in most angles except ...one

HW taught us they have had a hand at humanity destruction for eons

SB taught us they govern the very enemy of the world. The Empire

SHB taught us they are beings yearning for the world they lost and just like that it adds so much to them

TBA so far had side lined them to a more ....lack of better terms boorish approach with these one dimensional villains that I hope are given justice

If Emet-Selch says the Ascians are tempered, I'm inclined to believe him. It's not as if the story has made that a point of contention, either. Nobody ever questions if the Ascians are really tempered, like Ardbert does with himself and the WoL when it comes to Hydaelyn. Nobody ever uses it as an argument against them, either. It's treated more akin to a piece of trivia. That's kind of weird, but then so are a lot of moment to moment beats in this game's plot. I'm still not entirely over Ryne's random "I've never heard Hydaelyn's voice" line in 5.3, when right at the end of 5.2 we had that big scene where it turns out Hydaelyn is actively calling out to anyone who can hear Her.

I'm still waiting for the trigger to be pulled on that one. But I also expect and fear that 5.5 will be the last time we ever see or hear from Ryne, and that's if we actually get to see that follow-up festival.

But that's a tangent for another thread and another time. The point I wanted to make is that there's a lot of leeway when it comes to the way a primal's thralls behave. There has to be—they wouldn't be capable of infiltration otherwise (see: 4.1's Lakshmi appearance). Heck, the Serpent Reavers are a band of pirates explicitly under Leviathan's thrall, and yet Captain Madison is a pretty normal guy aside from that. Even in his second appearance, where he's ten feet tall with a kraken for a head, he acts about the same.

Unsundered Ascians are tempered, but question remains if sundering or rebirth canceled the tempering for others.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

I'm still not entirely over Ryne's random "I've never heard Hydaelyn's voice" line in 5.3, when right at the end of 5.2 we had that big scene where it turns out Hydaelyn is actively calling out to anyone who can hear Her.

I'm still waiting for the trigger to be pulled on that one. But I also expect and fear that 5.5 will be the last time we ever see or hear from Ryne, and that's if we actually get to see that follow-up festival.

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I think, and this is just my theory as the game doesn't spell it out in so many words, but Ryne doesn't have the echo like Minfillia had because she did, she'd be able to travel back and forth between the source and 1st like the WOL does.

That being said, the implied meaning of the joke the WOL can make to Gaia at the end of Eden arc about how she can go tell Thancred and Urianger what ended up happening, implies that Gaia can hop worlds, and by extension take Ryne with her.

So there is the possibility to bring her back if the writers what to. Also she may become a major player in the new story line on the 1st, but we'll just have to wait and see how that pans out.

I didn't take that scene to mean that Gaia could take Ryne with her. Just that since Gaia is an Ascian, once she learns how to control her powers, she can shard hop. I don't think Ascians have the ability to take people with them. That's why Ardbert and his WoLs had to give up their flesh (die) in order to come to the Source.

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how can say you he definitively isn't tempered?

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I said his behavior suggests he isn't tempered. First because he's positively elated at the idea that Elidibus is dead, as it means he's now free to do whatever he wants, if he was tempered obviously he'd be bound to Zodiark still. Secondly, because his stated motivations and goals aren't compatible with serving Zodiark, as he just intends to cause as much death as possible and then die himself.

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Unsundered Ascians are tempered, but question remains if sundering or rebirth canceled the tempering for others.

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We can very definitively say that it does. Random people aren't born tempered to ancient Primals, and Gaia is a pretty explicit subject case showing that the sundered souls of the Convocation members didn't just stay tempered after their deaths. Emet himself is also very indicative of this given that as he reappeared from the Lifestream, he directly worked against Elidibus and therefore Zodiark by saving WoL during the Seat of Sacrifice, suggesting that his soul is no longer tempered either.

The question then becomes, are the sundered Ascians tempered, and if so, how? The current state of Zodiark is pretty up in the air, and it's very arguable as to whether or not whatever current existence he has is capable of tempering anyone. Since the sundered can't have remained tempered from his original summoning like the the Unsundered, given they all died, how could it have happened to them?
Looking at the sundered in the recent story, we kind of have the indication that they aren't tempered at all. Fandaniel I talked about before, but the more pertinent case is probably Mitron. His goals in Eden have nothing whatsoever to do with Zodiark, and in fact directly oppose the Ascian's plans relating to him. Condensing all time down into a single moment to live out eternity with the woman he loved is really not advancing the cause of Zodiark in any regard.

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I think, and this is just my theory as the game doesn't spell it out in so many words, but Ryne doesn't have the echo like Minfillia had because she did, she'd be able to travel back and forth between the source and 1st like the WOL does.

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It's not the Echo that allows WoL to do that, it was being successfully summoned by G'raha.

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Originally Posted by Lium

I didn't take that scene to mean that Gaia could take Ryne with her. Just that since Gaia is an Ascian, once she learns how to control her powers, she can shard hop. I don't think Ascians have the ability to take people with them. That's why Ardbert and his WoLs had to give up their flesh (die) in order to come to the Source.

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Elidibus was able to move Unukalhai from the 13th to the source and Cylva from the 13th to 1st.