Ryne might be able to come back to the Source after all.

So I saw something on Reddit that makes sense in regards to Ryne. And it might allow her to return to the Source after all. Though it is purely speculation, I'm sure it's something many hope for. And if you think about it it makes sense.

Okay so you know how anyone from the Source is considered the "anchor" for the sundered souls. A soul jar, if you will, lol That once a shard disappears, any life on that shard combines with its counterpart from the Source. So that means every Source soul is 8/14, except for ours, since we remerged with Ardbert, so we are at 9/14. But there are two others who also might fit this specification.

The first is G'raha Tia, specifically as The Exarch; though this is debatable if it still hold true do to time travel. The Exarch version is from an alternate time-line where the 8th calamity did happen, so he would of been rejoined, but this might not be the same for the current G'raha Tia, since we prevented the First's rejoining.

Anyway, there is one more individual we are forgetting about. Ryne. Her physical form may be native to the First, but her soul was merged with Minfilia's. And at that point Minfilia already had 8/14 fragments rejoined. Ryne has become the new soul jar.

It's never stated in game, but it's implied, later on with the knowledge we gain, that the "reincarnated" girls Minfilia possessed aren't her reincarnated, but the girls who have the fragment of her original soul. Once Minfilia fully gave up her existence to Ryne, Ryne became the new host for all the fragments. She might be able to come with us to the Source after all.

What do you guys think? Is there hope with this knowledge, that although its not stated, makes sense given what we know.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

The first is G'raha Tia, specifically as The Exarch; though this is debatable if it still hold true do to time travel. The Exarch version is from an alternate time-line where the 8th calamity did happen, so he would of been rejoined, but this might not be the same for the current G'raha Tia, since we prevented the First's rejoining.

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So in regards to G'raha, speaking to him after finishing the MSQ reveals that his soul is about as dense as the Adventurer's. He theorizes this is due to living through another Rejoining. There is a bit more about soul shenanigans there if you want to look into it.

It is also important to note that she has just never tried to travel to the Source. It could be as simple as her walking through the mirror given that she and Minfilia share a body, much like we and Ardbert do.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

It is also important to note that she has just never tried to travel to the Source. It could be as simple as her walking through the mirror given that she and Minfilia share a body, much like we and Ardbert do.

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Given that the WoL is technically a sundered Ascian that might be why they are able to have their soul remain intact while moving through the rift. The same might not work for Ryne. Curious about whether Ryne will be on the Source though since shes awesome.

I wonder as well.

With the trust system, are they just going to block out Ryne for MSQ dungeons now that we're back on the source and a new dungeon just so happens to take place there? Would be a little jarring so I think she'll end up being very curious and pop in to see us next patch with Gaia in tow (after the events of the last raid tier naturally.) Maybe they use Eden as a means to traverse worlds? Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Honestly, now that she has that gunblade, I'd like to see a "Future Ryne" basically pop up and warn us about "impending doom" before the events of 6.0

Either that or have the next patch introduce an optional dungeon for once (then again I have to ask if Twinning and Akademia Ayndyr allow Trusts)

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

Honestly, now that she has that gunblade, I'd like to see a "Future Ryne" basically pop up and warn us about "impending doom" before the events of 6.0

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As much as I love time travel plots, we've literally just resolved an entire expansion of "future version of someone you know comes back to warn you of impending doom".

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Either that or have the next patch introduce an optional dungeon for once (then again I have to ask if Twinning and Akademia Ayndyr allow Trusts)

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They don't.

...oh man, I've just realised it's now a missed opportunity to take Raha in there as a trust companion. Temporal paradox, anyone?

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Originally Posted by Losara

Given that the WoL is technically a sundered Ascian that might be why they are able to have their soul remain intact while moving through the rift. The same might not work for Ryne. Curious about whether Ryne will be on the Source though since shes awesome.

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That description fits everyone though. We aren't a sundered Ascian, we are a sundered Ancient, like everyone else. The Ascians are what became of the Ancients after the sundering.

With out this getting into some heavy lore as to why and how, I believe it is possible for Ryne to come to the source and look like Minfilla, or even just be in Minfilla's source body.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the events of 5.4 and 5.5 put us and Estinien (because he's always been the one to save us at the most dire moments) in an inescapable bind only to be rescued by Ryne.

Or, she, like Minfilla before her, becomes the talking piece of Hydaelyn because of Hydaelyn's weakened condition finds it difficult to communicate to us.

Minfilia's Source body was consumed when she was spirited away to the Aetherial Sea by Hydaelyn back in 2.55.

I fully expect Ryne to join us on the Source. It seems really weird to have such an important character get sidelined like that.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I fully expect Ryne to join us on the Source. It seems really weird to have such an important character get sidelined like that.

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Why does it seem weird? Its basically what happend to Estinien after Heavensward and Lyse and Hien after Stormblood - they're all "feature characters" of their expansion, but after their story is told, they take their place at the sideline, appearing only sporadically because they're busy with their own problems in their own countries. I dont see Ryne being any different - she is not Minfilia, she is not part of the Scions and as she said herself: She needs to help her own people rebuild now.

I wouldnt be surprised if we visited Norvrandt once in a while again because she calls for our help with something, but there is no reason to bring her to the Source.

I'm not sure Estinien has been side lined by any means. Even at this point in the story he hasn't been seen since 5.1 and left because he had business to attend to.

Obviously he's up to something that I'm sure will come to light in the future.

The only reason she isn't with us now is because she is a key part of the Eden Raid. Once that is finished she will be joining us in the Source, I know it.

Besides, Yshtola already said she is going to look into finding a way to travel from the Source to the First just to see people again. Now consider the Crystal Tower now has been... recharged... Thanks old buddy.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

Besides, Yshtola already said she is going to look into finding a way to travel from the Source to the First just to see people again. Now consider the Crystal Tower now has been... recharged... Thanks old buddy.

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If they do pull it off, I'll be interested to see what G'raha would make of the prospect of going back... It would be really strange for him (in his own experience) to be back there but in a different body.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If they do pull it off, I'll be interested to see what G'raha would make of the prospect of going back... It would be really strange for him (in his own experience) to be back there but in a different body.

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Sure would be nice for him and Lyna to have a nice long chat now that the First doesn't have any immediate threats, no?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Why does it seem weird? Its basically what happend to Estinien after Heavensward and Lyse and Hien after Stormblood - they're all "feature characters" of their expansion, but after their story is told, they take their place at the sideline, appearing only sporadically because they're busy with their own problems in their own countries. I dont see Ryne being any different - she is not Minfilia, she is not part of the Scions and as she said herself: She needs to help her own people rebuild now.

I wouldnt be surprised if we visited Norvrandt once in a while again because she calls for our help with something, but there is no reason to bring her to the Source.

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I mean, Ryne is the Oracle of Light and directly tied to Hydaelyn, which kind of puts her import level a touch higher than those characters to me (especially as Estinien is still around and active, even if he didn't go with the group, he feels Krille level almost). We will see, but personally I expect it to happen.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

Sure would be nice for him and Lyna to have a nice long chat now that the First doesn't have any immediate threats, no?

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Well, yeah, of course. They'd both want to see each other again, but all the same, it would have to be strange for both of them. Probably more so for Lyna - it's one thing to know that your adoptive grandfather is still alive, somewhere beyond your reach, and quite another to see him come back to you as a young man! And G'raha would be conscious of that.

(Not, of course, that he looked that much different as the Exarch, but he seemed old and you could convince yourself he looked ageless rather than young. G'raha, not so much.)

It would seem okay in the end, probably, but it would be enough to make him hesitate over whether they should meet again or just let Lyna (and all the people of the Crystarium) remember him as he was.

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Originally Posted by Riastrad

The only reason she isn't with us now is because she is a key part of the Eden Raid. Once that is finished she will be joining us in the Source, I know it.

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I mentioned this in another thread, but I think it's entirely possible that once the Eden Raid is finished, BFFs Ryne and Gaia will truck on over to the Thirteenth Shard with Eden to start work on repairing the damage there, essentially writing both of them out of the story (Minfillia-style) unless the writers decide to revisit them later.

It's only one possible outcome, but I see this as being totally in-character for something she'd like to do. Also, the Thirteenth is WAY more accessable than the Source is, given that Voidsent are constantly sneaking in and out, and she has the Emissary of Darkness at her side to help, as well.

The story already tells you its possible if the WoL is just touching them, and "considers them a possession". So if push came to shove, that would be the "last resort" that is possible.
Not that I think they would go that route with the WoL (maybe Zenos, would do something like that) so yeah, we all know its going to happen, but we dont know which method they plan to use.

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Originally Posted by MaraD_

So yeah, we all know its going to happen, but we dont know which method they plan to use.

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This exactly.

5.3 spoilers

We could always ask a certain someone to summon her to the Source, in the same manner that he summoned us to the First. He's had lots of practice by now—I doubt he'd screw it up and end up grabbing the wrong person again.

(Let me just preface this by saying I am supes stoked I don't need to distinguish between Source G'raha and Exarch G'raha anymore, since they're the same person!)

While it would be nice to bring smol Minfilia along for the ride, there are a number of reasons I don't think it's very likely.

First, the spell G'raha used to pull us over there takes a boatload of energy. It was only possible thanks to using the Crystal Tower, and while we did go in there to wake him up it's been resealed - and I doubt anyone's going to open it back up to pull smol Minfilia over unless we had a mighty need!

Second, our soul density had nothing to do with it. The spell literally punched a hole in reality specifically to let us through; dragging the other Scions out of their bodies and pulling them over to the First was an unintended consequence of error. Before Shadowbringers' climax our souls were no more dense than anyone else's.

Third, we can't repeat the process used to bring the Scions back because Minfilia's body is gone. It disappeared into the Lifestream with Flow and was absorbed by Hydaelyn except when she needed to project it to communicate with the few people who made it to her. Even if we had G'raha make a soul vessel for Ryne there'd be nothing to put her soul in once we took it to the Source.

Fourth, she still has an adventure to complete on the First in the form of Eden.

Fifth, the First needs her more unless something drastically changes. While the Sin Eater threat has been greatly diminished there are still some around (like the giant flocks that attack us during E7) and as the Oracle of Light she's much more useful taking care of those. The Eaters probably won't go away in her lifetime (given it's going to take decades or even centuries to completely restore the Empty, where most of the remaining Eaters reside), so pulling her over would put a lot of people over there in jeopardy.

Tears were shed, smol no-longer-Minfilia will be missed, but like Lyse after Stormblood she's just not going to be that important moving forward.

... probably. (Never say never!)

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Originally Posted by Cilia

First, the spell G'raha used to pull us over there takes a boatload of energy. It was only possible thanks to using the Crystal Tower, and while we did go in there to wake him up it's been resealed - and I doubt anyone's going to open it back up to pull smol Minfilia over unless we had a mighty need!

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Not only that, but it's more than simply "using the Crystal Tower" - it may well require the additional power he gained by giving up his humanity to bind himself to it. It's one thing for him to do that to save the world, quite another just because Ryne wants to come visit.

Okay, so just random thought here:

What if we haven't stopped the 8th Calamity? Maybe we have changed how it will play out. Maybe we won't die in the chaos, but it still comes to pass and the 1st is rejoined?

Ironically, she'd end up on the source anyway.

Because if we aren't going to the moon to fight Zodiark in 6.0, it stands to reason a calamity happens to enable his awakening.

It's not impossible for people to physically move from shard to shard, or from a shard to the Source. Cylva and Unukalhai (poor neglected Unukalhai...) are proof of that. It requires a lot of currently impossible to reproduce Ascian shenanigans to accomplish it though.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

It's not impossible for people to physically move from shard to shard, or from a shard to the Source. Cylva and Unukalhai (poor neglected Unukalhai...) are proof of that. It requires a lot of currently impossible to reproduce Ascian shenanigans to accomplish it though.

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I'd put those 2 in the realm of either corporeal spirits like the Scions were, or body snatchers. Emet specifically mentions that we, the Adventurer, are the first to travel between worlds with our own body, i.e., physically, in his talk to Crystal G'raha while we are in Amh Areng with Thancred and co.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Ironically, she'd end up on the source anyway.

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No, she'd be dead along with everyone else in the First. It would just mean her+Minfilia's soul is now back in the Source's Lifestream to eventually be reborn there rather than in the First.

Also we've specifically removed the Light-saturated state that had primed the First for rejoining. It shouldn't be able to happen now, even if (heavens forbid) the Garleans still set off Black Rose, which would of course still be horrendous but much more localised without the supercharge it got from the First's aether.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

I'd put those 2 in the realm of either corporeal spirits like the Scions were, or body snatchers. Emet specifically mentions that we, the Adventurer, are the first to travel between worlds with our own body, i.e., physically, in his talk to Crystal G'raha while we are in Amh Areng with Thancred and co.

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The kid (can't spell his name) actually specifically says that he was on the brink of death when Elidibus came and saved him.

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And as I lay dying, beaten and broken in my failed last stand, 'twas a white-robed Ascian who found my tormented spirit and bore me away to the rift betwixt worlds. Elidibus has been my master ever since.

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The Last Pillar to Fall quest

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Originally Posted by Rannie

He actually specifically says that he was on the brink of death when Elidibus came and saved him.

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Maybe he doesn't know he has suffered a bodily death. Cylva has been on the First for a century and hasn't aged a year, let alone a decade. The usual rules of aging don't seem to apply, and thus corporeal spirits is the most likely answer to both of these 13th survivors.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Maybe he doesn't know he has suffered a bodily death. Cylva has been on the First for a century and hasn't aged a year, let alone a decade. The usual rules of aging don't seem to apply, and thus corporeal spirits is the most likely answer to both of these 13th survivors.

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Eh he does know read my edit ^_^ got it directly from Garland Tools I was also speaking of the kid just can never spell his name right

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Originally Posted by Cilia

First, the spell G'raha used to pull us over there takes a boatload of energy. It was only possible thanks to using the Crystal Tower, and while we did go in there to wake him up it's been resealed - and I doubt anyone's going to open it back up to pull smol Minfilia over unless we had a mighty need!

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Not only that, but it's more than simply "using the Crystal Tower" - it may well require the additional power he gained by giving up his humanity to bind himself to it. It's one thing for him to do that to save the world, quite another just because Ryne wants to come visit.

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Call me hopeful, but I believe those limitations will be worked through at some point in the future. Extraordinary feats have a habit of being rendered mundane with time, both in real life and in fiction.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Eh he does know read my edit ^_^ got it directly from Garland Tools I was also speaking of the kid just can never spell his name right

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By what is said, it was his "spirit" not his "body" that was saved. Which is firmly in line with how we know Ascians go between worlds, soul only.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

By what is said, it was his "spirit" not his "body" that was saved. Which is firmly in line with how we know Ascians go between worlds, soul only.

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Honestly I haven't been arguing with you on the point of it being a spirit ya know, more of the agreement and pointing out what the kid specifically said... his body is deader than a door nail and has been for over a millennia. Including that chick. Just like Ardbert and co for their bodies or were (minus elidibus and such taking over).

If it came across as such that wasn't my intention.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

So I saw something on Reddit that makes sense in regards to Ryne. And it might allow her to return to the Source after all.

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She can't return to the Source since she never has been there in the first place. Travel to the Source, possibly, but look how much trouble traveling between the worlds caused the Scions. Doesn't seem like something one want to do without a very, very, VERY good reason for it.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Call me hopeful, but I believe those limitations will be worked through at some point in the future. Extraordinary feats have a habit of being rendered mundane with time, both in real life and in fiction.

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It's pretty clear that the limitations will be worked through if the writers see a need for it. Consider G'raha himself, who was not expected to be awakened until the technology of today surpassed that of the Allagans and so they had no more need of the power of the Crystal Tower... except he's now running around as a Scion of the Seventh Dawn not even a year from when he sealed himself inside. (Subjectively, it was a few hundred years, due to time and dimension travel shenanigans.)

So honestly Ryne arriving on the Source would be the sort of thing that is impossible now, but maybe in 7.0 or something suddenly it's entirely possible, and due to time bubble also within the same year.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Honestly I haven't been arguing with you on the point of it being a spirit ya know, more of the agreement and pointing out what the kid specifically said... his body is deader than a door nail and has been for over a millennia. Including that chick. Just like Ardbert and co for their bodies or were (minus elidibus and such taking over).

If it came across as such that wasn't my intention.

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Ah, my apologies. Totally misread your intention. Let us put this unfortunate discourse behind us.

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Ah, my apologies. Totally misread your intention. Let us put this unfortunate discourse behind us.

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Put what behind us? ^_^

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

She can't return to the Source since she never has been there in the first place. Travel to the Source, possibly, but look how much trouble traveling between the worlds caused the Scions. Doesn't seem like something one want to do without a very, very, VERY good reason for it.

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Gotta love semantics, T.T