Will Final Fantasy ever make a "Dark Side"?

Forgive if this has been asked/discussed before. I was wondering if Final Fantasy would ever be doing a "Horde" side? So we could make Dark/Evil Characters? Sometimes it's just fun to be bad. :rolleyes::D;)

Not in this story format, no. They'd have to write everything twice.

In games like World of Warcraft you're kind of a nameless, faceless footsoldier in a larger world. FFXIV is way too character and story driven to allow for different alignments like that. You're basically whatever the story needs you to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Not in this story format, no. They'd have to write everything twice.

---

Thanks! That makes sense.

Unlikely at this point given how far back they'd need to rewrite things. Also as Goji stated the very existence of the WoL and how they affect the story kinda prohibits a faction system from working alongside a well told and engaging narrative. Some games can pull it off successfully, SWTOR in it's initial release, but even they eventually collapse back down to a singular goal for their players to engage with with just mildly different dialogue flavors to account for the faction issues. At this point you're going to have to wait for the next FF MMO to potentially explore that concept.

dont think so, the theme of the game is pretty much like standard JRPG/dragon quest style where a hero vanquish the evil typical storyline.

at the best, the dark side we can get is probably the twist and turn we got in the story like the cutscene where people change to sineater in SHB, thats probably the darkest one i ever seen in this game

It wouldn't be impossible, though it would take a lot of extra resources. One point in its favour is that the game and writers themselves make it a point to show that good and evil are matter of perspectives rather than absolutes. We just happen to be seeing various conflicts through the eyes of one particular side.

Final Fantasy 4: The After Years has one or two "chapters" where you play as characters who are, or once were, villains. Kain's darkside is the lead character for one or two segments and Golbez is the lead character of his own chapter, an active party member in the penultimate chapter, and out of that game's huge cast he's one of the best party members for the final chapter of the game due to his overall high stats, high HP, and Taunt being an offense-oriented tanking ability.
Beyond that, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is somewhat notorious in that the game's protagonist, Marche, has a motivation you'd usually see in a story's villain: He wants to destroy the world the majority of the game takes place in to return to his own.
Oh, and there's the Dissida series, but those are fighting games and from what I recall, the story modes in those don't actually let you play as the villain characters.

Beyond that, I think this sort of system needs to be built into the game from the ground up, and part of the reason you rarely see it is because it doubles or even triples the workload on the developers' behalf without necessarily resulting in larger or longer player retention. World of Warcraft is the exception, and even then there's plenty of complaints to be had about the Horde's schizophrenic writing. Apparently it's really difficult to write "Dark Hero" factions without them gravitating towards extremely... odd... behavior. Like engaging in forever wars because they want to "kill hope", to use a recent example.

I'd give my left arm for a darker storyline.

I think a two sided story focused, you the hero driven, game could work, but it would need to be built that way from the start. Also could benefit a lot from an alt friendly setting, so you can play both views smoothly yet still enjoy freedom like the job system and side specific choices but in a semi-lore logical way. Might have some fun with it like your hero is made of multiple active souls, nameless one, changing god, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marxam

I'd give my left arm for a darker storyline.

---

Raubahn would like to know how to delete others posts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Not in this story format, no. They'd have to write everything twice.

---

mmo cliche #1: No matter how well developed two competing factions are, they will inevitably join forces for the "greater good" even if one is the self proclaimed "Bad Guys". This is primarily done to save production costs. :D

I don't want a system like that... we have WoW for that. I like this game for not having one, not everything needs to be at some player driven but not really important "war" with each other. I rather have SE work on making our WoL more character driven without taking away our choice. Sides... This game gets hella dark at parts. The first dungeon is pretty much a rape dungeon... ouch. Stormblood is pretty dark too and many people hail Heavenwards as the darkest in the game. We don't need to cut the playerbase into two halfs to be at a fake war for the plot to get abit dark. We have that in spades already. We're also just over powered anime protags so yeah... we 95.9 save the day at the end. And that's fine.


If you REALLY need to be at -war- with other people just stay on the forums or reddit. Or say all crystal is trash and be from primal or something. ( This part is a joke but you get my point )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Controller

I don't want a system like that... we have WoW for that. I like this game for not having one, not everything needs to be at some player driven but not really important "war" with each other. I rather have SE work on making our WoL more character driven without taking away our choice. Sides... This game gets hella dark at parts. The first dungeon is pretty much a rape dungeon... ouch. Stormblood is pretty dark too and many people hail Heavenwards as the darkest in the game. We don't need to cut the playerbase into two halfs to be at a fake war for the plot to get abit dark. We have that in spades already. We're also just over powered anime protags so yeah... we 95.9 save the day at the end. And that's fine.


If you REALLY need to be at -war- with other people just stay on the forums or reddit. Or say all crystal is trash and be from primal or something. ( This part is a joke but you get my point )

---

OP can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think their point of saying dark was in the essence of the game needs darker themes, as you and a few people point to some pretty dark happenings in the game, but in so much that they want to be the 'other guys'.

Maybe even dark isn't quite the right word for the Horde sometimes, since they're not looking to destroy the world or something (as a people, individual leaders.. different issue lol)- it's just two opposing factions who clearly don't see eye to eye lol. Classic civilization wars, your land is my land, nationalism, factionism, racism, bad blood history, etc.

I only mention this because I think a few people got that vibe as a takeaway, that they (OP) wanted the game to have darker themes (which we've obviously have some pretty dark moments, especially if you read side dialog), and having at least played WoW personally, and not having a vindetta against it like some have, I think when someone asks for a dark side it's just more like not the stereotypical pretty boys who might be eating with their dainty silver spoons and get everything handed to them on a gem encrusted pillow (the vaguely and generally fabulous classically civilized side, alliance, and the non-fabulous underdogs and misfits, horde).

Like I could easily imagine Garleans being a faction that might be seen as 'the bad guys' but if you played them you could explain a lot of their actions in a different light that makes them not pure evil (technically done in game at times already). Similarly to most of the Horde's actions. Of course there are some terrible choice makers in the horde, terrible people in the Garlean faction, but so there is too in part of our 'good guy' side. Here dark side might be better be seen as anti-heroes / rugged, or just in general a juxtaposition of whichever side is against it.

Wish it was possible. I dislike the way I get options but Alphinaud basically chooses which answers I can say

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Controller

I don't want a system like that... we have WoW for that. I like this game for not having one, not everything needs to be at some player driven but not really important "war" with each other. I rather have SE work on making our WoL more character driven without taking away our choice. Sides... This game gets hella dark at parts. The first dungeon is pretty much a rape dungeon... ouch. Stormblood is pretty dark too and many people hail Heavenwards as the darkest in the game. We don't need to cut the playerbase into two halfs to be at a fake war for the plot to get abit dark. We have that in spades already. We're also just over powered anime protags so yeah... we 95.9 save the day at the end. And that's fine.


If you REALLY need to be at -war- with other people just stay on the forums or reddit. Or say all crystal is trash and be from primal or something. ( This part is a joke but you get my point )

---

hang on imma try out some shitty baits see if i can catch something:
Undertale is a shit game
healers should rescue tanks into pulls
Savage is easy
league of legends is less toxic than ff14
ff6 was better than ff7
Yuna is trash
Haurchefant was a shit knight

I do think we could at least have some more sketchy stories and jobs. Dark Knight isn't evil for example but the edge is impressive; Sidurgu, your comrade, is rather ruthless.

Maybe we could see a necromancer job or something down the line that straddles the line.

I hope they don't, it started off fine but ended up being a big downside to WoW. The Horde weren't really "evil", the Alliance ended up just as corrupt in quite a few ways. The storyline nearly always deviated between working together and cooperating and then suddenly at war because ...well, no real reason really besides it being warcraft. World PvP mostly died and the faction split ended up only serving to split friends off from each other.

A dark questline could be fun, although you'd probably have to write it as the WoL being corrupted and later "saved" as it wouldn't click well with the overall story if you openly made evil choices. The other option is a series of quests from the perspective of an NPC with a darker side. We have quests where you play as NPC's, there's potential to work with there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Goji1639

In games like World of Warcraft you're kind of a nameless, faceless footsoldier in a larger world. FFXIV is way too character and story driven to allow for different alignments like that. You're basically whatever the story needs you to be.

---

Not anymore we're not. Over the last few expansions of WoW we have basically been the WoL-like character.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

OP can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think their point of saying dark was in the essence of the game needs darker themes, as you and a few people point to some pretty dark happenings in the game, but in so much that they want to be the 'other guys'.

Maybe even dark isn't quite the right word for the Horde sometimes, since they're not looking to destroy the world or something (as a people, individual leaders.. different issue lol)- it's just two opposing factions who clearly don't see eye to eye lol. Classic civilization wars, your land is my land, nationalism, factionism, racism, bad blood history, etc.

I only mention this because I think a few people got that vibe as a takeaway, that they (OP) wanted the game to have darker themes (which we've obviously have some pretty dark moments, especially if you read side dialog), and having at least played WoW personally, and not having a vindetta against it like some have, I think when someone asks for a dark side it's just more like not the stereotypical pretty boys who might be eating with their dainty silver spoons and get everything handed to them on a gem encrusted pillow (the vaguely and generally fabulous classically civilized side, alliance, and the non-fabulous underdogs and misfits, horde).

Like I could easily imagine Garleans being a faction that might be seen as 'the bad guys' but if you played them you could explain a lot of their actions in a different light that makes them not pure evil (technically done in game at times already). Similarly to most of the Horde's actions. Of course there are some terrible choice makers in the horde, terrible people in the Garlean faction, but so there is too in part of our 'good guy' side. Here dark side might be better be seen as anti-heroes / rugged, or just in general a juxtaposition of whichever side is against it.

---

That wouldn't make sense with how they plot the WoL and or the Garleans. The biggest take away is that the PC has to have access to every job and every race. And doing something like what WoW does would cut you off from half of the options and that's a no go. Tho I have to be honest.. who would you be if you could? The only other group in the game is Garleans and they can't use any of the jobs we have currently. So what'll be the point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

hang on imma try out some shitty baits see if i can catch something:
Undertale is a shit game
healers should rescue tanks into pulls
Savage is easy
league of legends is less toxic than ff14
ff6 was better than ff7
Yuna is trash
Haurchefant was a shit knight

---

LOL. I'd grab popcorn.

I wouldn't like to see a "dark" faction/side.
Outside of the fact that it's a tired cliché, it doesn't fit into FF14's mold and it has no need to copy what other people are doing.

I was originally hoping Shadowbringers was going to bring that darker story element based on the marketing for the expansion. But nope! We fought light with light! *sigh*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElazulHP

I was originally hoping Shadowbringers was going to bring that darker element based on the marketing for the expansion. But nope! We fought light with light! *sigh*

---

It definitely didn't go the direction I was expecting, but overall I'm glad it panned out the way it did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It definitely didn't go the direction I was expecting, but overall I'm glad it panned out the way it did.

---

did you know there was a thread in these forums asking if they can Sue se for false advertising. :^)

10/10 community
(oh and it wasnt a troll)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

did you know there was a thread in these forums asking if they can Sue se for false advertising. :^)

10/10 community
(oh and it wasnt a troll)

---

I think I remember something about that. Was too busy actually enjoying the story for a change. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Controller

That wouldn't make sense with how they plot the WoL and or the Garleans. The biggest take away is that the PC has to have access to every job and every race. And doing something like what WoW does would cut you off from half of the options and that's a no go. Tho I have to be honest.. who would you be if you could? The only other group in the game is Garleans and they can't use any of the jobs we have currently. So what'll be the point?

---

I think I might not have conveyed the intent of that example well, I did not mean that SE takes the current game and make Garlean's 'the others' (opposing faction) we can play. I meant that Garleans are the others of this game and could imagine playing them (if SE had made it from the start with that intent, which obviously we're way past the start now lol), that they've generally been marred but if you dig around you can find a lot of humanity / reasons things have happened are as they are (and especially if you remember that a leader does not necessarily make it's people, especially when the flow of information is being manipulated, there is tyranny within even, or there seems to be no other option, something that's easy for people to remember when talking about 'our' side but not 'their's'). Like the Horde, which is not really an evil group- they're more underdog, down trodden, wild, rascals, misfits, but not really evil.

I do not think FFXIV can easily make an opposing playable faction as it is, which is why in the first post I made to this thread I said I think making a real faction system would likely only work well if the game was made that way from the start. Also I added, which I think solves mostly your point about half content, that a game that is divided like that would benefit significantly from an intelligent alt system that encourages and builds up that alt concept as if they expect most of their players to make an alt at some point. Allowing one to both fracture and yet still offer the majority of players a complete experience.

Now if it's worth that really depends on what you're going to do with it lol, could make really neat options and a compelling story that feels like the game mechanics back it up, while still allowing players flexibility, or you could just add a bunch of hoops players have to jump through because.. because.. I think it could be neat, but you'd have to want to do it for a reason beyond just because.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jin-

Wish it was possible. I dislike the way I get options but Alphinaud basically chooses which answers I can say

---

This last patch was really bad for dialogue options in general. It was basically:

1. I will do anything for the greater good!
2. My heart breaks that I cannot do more!
3. What are we waiting for? Let’s go now!

I was sitting there like, oh please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

I think I might not have conveyed the intent of that example well, I did not mean that SE takes the current game and make Garlean's 'the others' (opposing faction) we can play. I meant that Garleans are the others of this game and could imagine playing them (if SE had made it from the start with that intent, which obviously we're way past the start now lol), that they've generally been marred but if you dig around you can find a lot of humanity / reasons things have happened are as they are (and especially if you remember that a leader does not necessarily make it's people, especially when the flow of information is being manipulated, there is tyranny within even, or there seems to be no other option, something that's easy for people to remember when talking about 'our' side but not 'their's'). Like the Horde, which is not really an evil group- they're more underdog, down trodden, wild, rascals, misfits, but not really evil.

I do not think FFXIV can easily make an opposing playable faction as it is, which is why in the first post I made to this thread I said I think making a real faction system would likely only work well if the game was made that way from the start. Also I added, which I think solves mostly your point about half content, that a game that is divided like that would benefit significantly from an intelligent alt system that encourages and builds up that alt concept as if they expect most of their players to make an alt at some point. Allowing one to both fracture and yet still offer the majority of players a complete experience.

Now if it's worth that really depends on what you're going to do with it lol, could make really neat options and a compelling story that feels like the game mechanics back it up, while still allowing players flexibility, or you could just add a bunch of hoops players have to jump through because.. because.. I think it could be neat, but you'd have to want to do it for a reason beyond just because.

---

I think I might've misread what you meant. I get what you mean now tho. But yeah XIV can't do it now.. it's way too late. >.> Do I think they should in the next one... my answer still leans towards no. But thats because I like being - The Guy-. Tera you were a nameless mook and not a main character and that sucked.. it was hard to get invested in the plot cause I didn't matter. Being the WoL is my calling. I like being the main deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pandemonium1960

Forgive if this has been asked/discussed before. I was wondering if Final Fantasy would ever be doing a "Horde" side? So we could make Dark/Evil Characters? Sometimes it's just fun to be bad. :rolleyes::D;)

---

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lalafell

Historically, even when the franchise allows you to play "dark" jobs, "dark" means literal dark and not morally dark. As in, use the powers of shadow or the Crystals of Darkness to perform acts of good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

Historically, even when the franchise allows you to play "dark" jobs, "dark" means literal dark and not morally dark. As in, use the powers of shadow or the Crystals of Darkness to perform acts of good.

---

I’ve heard this might be a cultural thing. In Japan they are very much into heroic good vanquishing evil. Especially in fantasy.

But please correct me if I’m wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lium

I’ve heard this might be a cultural thing. In Japan they are very much into heroic good vanquishing evil. Especially in fantasy.

But please correct me if I’m wrong.

---

japan back in the old days love good heroic story, its why dragon quest was so big at that time, and now it branches to similar setting but with some twist and there, like MC is weakling, MC is silent protag, MC is pervert, etc

but the one that really hit the stride of popularity in these day is MC use dark power to do good, japan youngster eat this like pancake, MC use dark/evil power but actually still on the side of good (and some with extra stuff like MC is on edgy side or a total chuuni vibe)

and this is why japan has different take of "dark" power, when we talk dark power/class, we think an evil person who do evil deed and stuff. for japan "dark" power/class is just the power come from dark/evil aspect but the user is still on good side

even when they try to make the protag evil, they still need to pander it toward good, overlord anime is prime example for this. japan just love this kind of stuff this day.

We have a substantially different way of viewing good and evil, which in Asia is grounded in history now long gone. Much as is the case in the west and a more common Judeo-Christian viewpoint. Sometimes it's effects are subtle; we can all appreciate a 'jerk' amongst the laughter, regardless of where we are from after all. In others though, its far more thematically obvious. Japan commonly adheres to a pre-modern take on the origin of evil in its storytelling; and thus how its taken into your heart/why you are ''dark'' is fairly different. So then, that ''grey'' area of working together, will never be as frustrating as it understandably is for western audiences. Being 50/50 ethnically speaking, I find the differences between the views really interesting. I personally find merit in both!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jin-

Wish it was possible. I dislike the way I get options but Alphinaud basically chooses which answers I can say

---

The redundancy of the dialogue options always bothered me. Quite the strange system. Do you like to eat? Answer; Hell yes, Does Kan-E-Senna live in the forest!?, I am hungry, lets eat now? Lol. :rolleyes: Even the rare ''no'' is an excuse for Alphi telling you 'hurr durr, you meant yes bro' haha.

Love you Jinny <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gumas

even when they try to make the protag evil, they still need to pander it toward good, overlord anime is prime example for this. japan just love this kind of stuff this day.

---

Totally this. The poster child for "chunnibyo" (a young teenager who escapes the bleak drugery of reality by imagining him or herself having powers and being special) is a kid in a trenchcoat and possessing powerful magical abilities that cause society to shun them. This individual behaves in selfish ways, is prone to bouts of evil laughter and gloating over fallen foes - and yet, always seems to wind up directing their "evilness" against assholes who richy deserve it.

Essentially, they emulate fictional villains (who are typically powerful, aggressive, stylish, self-confident, and good looking - all things young nerds wish they could be but usually aren't), but can't really stomach the idea of actually doing evil things. Japanese stories cater toward this fantasy, and cater HARD.

Generally, when it comes to mainstream games, only Western games go that extra mile to allow players to do ACTUAL evil things, and truly make the protagonist into a real villain. (And, in my opinion, when they do, they generally don't do it consitently or well. :P)

Back to the original post - will this game ever add such an option. Almost certainly not. The amount of effort it would take to add an opposed faction (whether this faction is actually "evil" or just opposed to the current faction for other reasons) when the game wasn't built for that to begin with would be phenominal. Like, almost doubling the content of the game. At least, if players were to be given the option of joining this faction from the start. More reasonable would be to split off a faction later on - like, everyone follows the main story through Shadowbringers, and at the start of the next expansion are given the option to choose to join a new faction that emerges as part of the storyline. I see even this as being extremely unlikely, however, and if it DOES happen, the likelihood of your character actually becoming EVIL after such a long history of do-gooding as being next to non-existent. Neither you, nor the new faction, will be evil - just opposed, for whatever reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Totally this. The poster child for "chunnibyo" (a young teenager who escapes the bleak drugery of reality by imagining him or herself having powers and being special) is a kid in a trenchcoat and possessing powerful magical abilities that cause society to shun them. This individual behaves in selfish ways, is prone to bouts of evil laughter and gloating over fallen foes - and yet, always seems to wind up directing their "evilness" against assholes who richy deserve it.

Essentially, they emulate fictional villains (who are typically powerful, aggressive, stylish, self-confident, and good looking - all things young nerds wish they could be but usually aren't), but can't really stomach the idea of actually doing evil things. Japanese stories cater toward this fantasy, and cater HARD.

Generally, when it comes to mainstream games, only Western games go that extra mile to allow players to do ACTUAL evil things, and truly make the protagonist into a real villain. (And, in my opinion, when they do, they generally don't do it consitently or well. :P)

Back to the original post - will this game ever add such an option. Almost certainly not. The amount of effort it would take to add an opposed faction (whether this faction is actually "evil" or just opposed to the current faction for other reasons) when the game wasn't built for that to begin with would be phenominal. Like, almost doubling the content of the game. At least, if players were to be given the option of joining this faction from the start. More reasonable would be to split off a faction later on - like, everyone follows the main story through Shadowbringers, and at the start of the next expansion are given the option to choose to join a new faction that emerges as part of the storyline. I see even this as being extremely unlikely, however, and if it DOES happen, the likelihood of your character actually becoming EVIL after such a long history of do-gooding as being next to non-existent. Neither you, nor the new faction, will be evil - just opposed, for whatever reason.

---

They won't even do THAT. These games - Final Fantasy - games were never about you controlling the villain or freedom of choice. They are all railroad one path tracks to whatever ending SE has prerendered in pure awesomeness. So in other words... this option will never be an option for XIV or any FF mmo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Controller

They won't even do THAT. These games - Final Fantasy - games were never about you controlling the villain or freedom of choice. They are all railroad one path tracks to whatever ending SE has prerendered in pure awesomeness. So in other words... this option will never be an option for XIV or any FF mmo.

---

And that isn't a bad thing.

Games are entertainment and different people are entertained by different things. Not everyone needs or wants a "dark edgy side" to their protagonists to make the story worthwhile and enjoyable.

The writers have made it clear that 'good' and 'evil' are ultimately a matter of perspective for the majority of factions and characters in the game, anyway. Only Zenos stands out as lacking any sympathetic qualities whatsoever.

I'm sure that if the MSQ's allowed for a bit more freedom and player choice that it'd go down very well. Especially if it were optional. A handful of Final Fantasy games have allowed for antagonists to be playable at certain points and they often have a number of sympathetic antagonists/friendly rivals who end up surviving the game's events and rising to great heights when it comes to popularity.

FFXIV would do well to introduce more characters along the lines of Rufus Shinra and The Turks from FF7R or General Beatrix from FFIX. It'd help balance out the bland, one note characters like Alisae which is an added bonus!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lium

This last patch was really bad for dialogue options in general. It was basically:

1. I will do anything for the greater good!
2. My heart breaks that I cannot do more!
3. What are we waiting for? Let’s go now!

I was sitting there like, oh please.

---

The responses boil down to railroading of course - if not by your choice then by the person you're talking to - but it still feels like "giving the character a voice". Right there on the screen, your character actually said a thing instead of smiling and nodding, or mime-talking without subtitles. You choose to make them excited or hesitant or sarcastic.

This is especially important at key story points, like at the end of Shadowbringers. The dialogue options are barely options - there's one thing you clearly should say, and the others are just there for padding and people who didn't do the should-be-prerequisite quests so it can be presented in a "select dialogue" menu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Totally this. The poster child for "chunnibyo" (a young teenager who escapes the bleak drugery of reality by imagining him or herself having powers and being special) is a kid in a trenchcoat and possessing powerful magical abilities that cause society to shun them. This individual behaves in selfish ways, is prone to bouts of evil laughter and gloating over fallen foes - and yet, always seems to wind up directing their "evilness" against assholes who richy deserve it.

Essentially, they emulate fictional villains (who are typically powerful, aggressive, stylish, self-confident, and good looking - all things young nerds wish they could be but usually aren't), but can't really stomach the idea of actually doing evil things. Japanese stories cater toward this fantasy, and cater HARD.

Generally, when it comes to mainstream games, only Western games go that extra mile to allow players to do ACTUAL evil things, and truly make the protagonist into a real villain. (And, in my opinion, when they do, they generally don't do it consitently or well. :P)

Back to the original post - will this game ever add such an option. Almost certainly not. The amount of effort it would take to add an opposed faction (whether this faction is actually "evil" or just opposed to the current faction for other reasons) when the game wasn't built for that to begin with would be phenominal. Like, almost doubling the content of the game. At least, if players were to be given the option of joining this faction from the start. More reasonable would be to split off a faction later on - like, everyone follows the main story through Shadowbringers, and at the start of the next expansion are given the option to choose to join a new faction that emerges as part of the storyline. I see even this as being extremely unlikely, however, and if it DOES happen, the likelihood of your character actually becoming EVIL after such a long history of do-gooding as being next to non-existent. Neither you, nor the new faction, will be evil - just opposed, for whatever reason.

---

I only see it as unlikely (sadly) because of where the game is in its lifecycle - I do hope, if/when designing a future MMO, they take into account the possibility of introducing this from the ground up. I really like these kind of choices in RPGs.

It's difficult to put in a genuinely "evil" faction into a game, but WAR and SWTOR both did something like that, depending on how you parse the chaos faction, or the Sith code of ethics; certainly they're anathema to most western ethical systems. Unfortunately, those MMOs are/were plagued by other issues that make/made them unappealing compared to the likes of FFXIV. A shame, because they could have been interesting in the hands of a better developer.

That said, I don't think a FF game would need to go that far, but certainly the option to embrace darkness would be nice. It's not like the light-aligned heroes aren't pandering to a similar image many "young nerds" wish they could be. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

The writers have made it clear that 'good' and 'evil' are ultimately a matter of perspective for the majority of factions and characters in the game, anyway. Only Zenos stands out as lacking any sympathetic qualities whatsoever.

I'm sure that if the MSQ's allowed for a bit more freedom and player choice that it'd go down very well. Especially if it were optional. A handful of Final Fantasy games have allowed for antagonists to be playable at certain points and they often have a number of sympathetic antagonists/friendly rivals who end up surviving the game's events and rising to great heights when it comes to popularity.

FFXIV would do well to introduce more characters along the lines of Rufus Shinra and The Turks from FF7R or General Beatrix from FFIX. It'd help balance out the bland, one note characters like Alisae which is an added bonus!

---

Agreed. That'd also be welcome, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

The writers have made it clear that 'good' and 'evil' are ultimately a matter of perspective for the majority of factions and characters in the game, anyway. Only Zenos stands out as lacking any sympathetic qualities whatsoever.

I'm sure that if the MSQ's allowed for a bit more freedom and player choice that it'd go down very well. Especially if it were optional. A handful of Final Fantasy games have allowed for antagonists to be playable at certain points and they often have a number of sympathetic antagonists/friendly rivals who end up surviving the game's events and rising to great heights when it comes to popularity.

FFXIV would do well to introduce more characters along the lines of Rufus Shinra and The Turks from FF7R or General Beatrix from FFIX. It'd help balance out the bland, one note characters like Alisae which is an added bonus!

---

I would love to be able to play as one of the other side characters through the role play system, I think there are a lot of interesting stories to tell that way. Thought it could be particularly interesting both gameplay wise and for the story if we could play as an Ascian, could be present day or even in the past . . :3. Extra fun if they somehow gave players the opportunity to play as a true form lol. Of course besides the leaders of the military being potential options can also go to a smaller scale to show the perspective of just a normal person, how they feel and view everything, as well as remind people they're also human.

---
Or might allow us a more sympathetic perspective onto Zenos than the one we currently have which is "bad guy, because I'm just bad to the bone, I've no redeeming qualities so far". Could do something like as you play Zenos in the past, during some sort of death march mission with his men falling all around and his strength waning (you fighting as Zenos in segments between scenes), the world seems a bit off, little dark strands of aether creeping onto the screen occasionally, and as you're more and more alone fighting as a pincushion full of arrows the whispers start. Fracture in reality opens up beckoning him to reach out and with that he'll have the might to punish his enemies- reaching out only shortly before having a second thought to stand again. Those he trained with all dead around him, enemies closing in, he was going to make it his last stand- besides they sent him on this death march anyways so he might as well do it proper. After a few more kills with very weak swings he falls again, seeing the faces of his soldiers, bodies mangled, he begins to cry and try to get up again, but is too weak to lift himself up, this time the fracture opening up inches away and even reaching out pulling him to touch it (literally magically pulling him), but before the dark crystal forces him to connect a holy hand clasps onto his and lifts him up (healing him).

The scene is quickly interrupted as he is assaulted again, and after cleaning out a few more enemies they retreat at the unkillable unstoppable warrior- the holy figure no where to be seen. A short scene of the void closing, with a tiny dark sliver of crystal, like a thin needle, is left behind - the blood from enemies and allies tracing it's way cross the ground to gently lift and bob it onto the surface. As he returns his 'breeders' are furious as all he had to do was reach out in a near death state (hence why they don't just try to kill him via torture, as the scenario would lead to just 'kill me' and he'd not reach out, may also suggest they tried that before already and it didn't work)- failing what he was bred for and finding out the reason why the planned didn't work they begin work to magically break his attunements to the elements (like shattering a soul) such that contact from hydaelyn is damaging and impossible to be helpful any more (nearing a sort of lich / zombification process, but for the soul specifically). Some scenes shouldn't include the father, some should, he's a terrible dad, but he wants his son to be a god and use that power to defend their people, he believes the will of his son great enough for a star and raised him to be that ironbull of a star, not because he enjoys watching his son in pain (believes his son strong, the strongest, and seeing him pain is a disappointment, not an enjoyment, because of his distorted and perverted faith and belief of what his son will accomplish through strength of body, will, and mind). Later in an experiment using the dark needle, soaked in his soldier's blood (from the battlefield), to pierce his third eye and permanently haunting him emotionally, physically, and metaphysically- forever throwing him out of balance and in their hope making the connection a possibility again as he's put closer than ever before to zodiark's alter. (many other events to be included- a life long process from childhood, not just these few to make him as he is, this was just a vague for fun-zy sketch).

In this way his only joy becomes being able to add dismay to the faces that attempted and failed to make him to their will, that he seeks out every challenger, seeking out strength to be able to do so, he's never going to reach out so pitifully for help again, especially to that which keeps asking for his help. Might is right, and weakness is to be abandoned- there is no other purpose to life. Maybe that might be a fun way to introduce Zenos was bred to be a potential vessel for Zodiark or something, his humanity be damned, the reason why he is so broken and yet so skilled, a sort of serious Joker- broken to the core. There is no way to redeem him, just a lesson on what can make a monster. Unfortunately due to Zeno's might make right perspective he may one day willingly come to Zodiark, not to be a vessel, but in attempt to champion Zodiark to his will. . which will be a mistake.

I'd like to note that I hope that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are not going to end up being pure evil and pure good but like each one embodies a type of living and their behavior is more like very very advanced programming- since they are primals anyways. Like Zodiark would ensure peace, but at the cost of freedom- organization and unity at all costs, while Hydaelyn defends freedom even if it has the cost of peace- neither going about to cause harm because it's fun - might look at it like the god that intervenes and regularly shows up (Zodiark) vs the god that prefers to go as hands off as possible and let their children live as they will (Hydaelyn), which might also be able to make allusions to templars vs assasins in their ideal forms.
---

If they really wanted to they might even be able to have sort of story boosted characters, past the point where it's no longer really weird, that you could play as a the 'other side' as main character too- say like how WoW is now letting players start from a specific expansion with their new level squish and then go right into the new expansion. Using MSQ+ to do old content could be a bit weird though XD- never take off your headgear.... haha..

Just think that if they wanted to do an actual faction system, red vs blue, like horde vs alliance would be a very heavy task (not so much if they built the game that way from the start, but we're past that lol).