Whispering during dungeons

I can understand why you wouldn't want your party to whisper during a dungeon, however every time I need to whisper or open my social tabs for something I'm never able to during a duty. Will there ever be a chance for them to let us whisper during dungeons and trials because there are many times where I want to whisper a friend and I'm never able to. I don't like the idea of everyone in the party chat reading what I'm saying if it doesn't involve them (which is why I never do it) when I could easily just whisper a friend in the dungeon or even whisper a friend outside a dungeon (also annoying how you can't whisper a friend that is inside a dungeon), I can understand it may bring some sort of negativity or "toxicity" by talking about the people in your group privately but honestly that happens either way and I think having the functionality of being able to whisper and use your social tab during dungeons is a better thing overall for the game.

I actually wish you could whisper to party members mid-instance as you'd be able to give advice/suggestions in private, and I feel like that would typically be better received than just broadcasting it in the party. On the flip side of course, you could get the prats who then take to /whisper insults, but I would hope that would be the minority of people.

If you have a specific friend, or a small group you want to be able to chat with always, you could make a linkshell or crossworld-linkshell just for that small group.

Set up a linkshell with that friend.
If you have space this is.
Linkshells, FC chat, and Novice Network can all be used in all instances.

“Lol this Healer sucks”
“Your Dance partner just died, gimme”

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

If you have a specific friend, or a small group you want to be able to chat with always, you could make a linkshell or crossworld-linkshell just for that small group.

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I'm assuming a linkshell is some sort of group chat type of thing, correct? If so there may be a scenario where you only want to message 1 person from that linkshell as well as not just flood yourself with a lot of linkshells, that being said though I'm not saying linkshells are bad, it's probably since I come from a lot of games where you can just instantly whisper the person and be on your way.

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Originally Posted by Woodenbucket

I'm assuming a linkshell is some sort of group chat type of thing, correct? If so there may be a scenario where you only want to message 1 person from that linkshell as well as not just flood yourself with a lot of linkshells, that being said though I'm not saying linkshells are bad, it's probably since I come from a lot of games where you can just instantly whisper the person and be on your way.

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How many people would you want to whisper in dungeons exactly?
You can have just 1 or 2 people in a LS if you want.
For example I have a couple of close friends and we have a LS just for us three (we're not always on at the same time though, so in practice it's just 2 of us at a time) then another one for the leaders of my FC which again is just 4 people, one of those being in the same LS as the first.
Then another group of friends have another larger LS.
Everyone else I regularly communicate to is in my FC and there's not much I would be bothered by sharing in FC chat either. Things like "you won't believe what this stupid tank just did" isn't unheard of as a venting avenue.

Each LS functions just like FC chat does, instead of /FC before your message you just type /L# with # being the number of the LS.

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Originally Posted by Woodenbucket

I'm assuming a linkshell is some sort of group chat type of thing, correct? If so there may be a scenario where you only want to message 1 person from that linkshell as well as not just flood yourself with a lot of linkshells, that being said though I'm not saying linkshells are bad, it's probably since I come from a lot of games where you can just instantly whisper the person and be on your way.

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Each linkshell can have up to 128 members, you can only invite players from your own server (and you cant do so in dungeons) - a linkshell is a permanent chat (until its deleted), so its always available to all of its members (exception being if they're visiting a different server, using the world visit system). You can also only have a maximum of 8 linkshells.
So much about linkshells...

...and with that being said: I have to disagree with your proposal.
If you want to correct a mistake a party member made or give some advice, you should be able to phrase that in a way thats appropriate to be said in a group envoriment in the first place - and secondly: That advice might be useful to more than just the person you sent the /tell to - or maybe someone else in the group can give even better advice (for example: I can tell a dragoon that they need to pay attention to their buffs and positionals, but thats about it - if there is someone in the group who actually mains dragoon, they might be able to give additional advice or pointers such as "This buff is more important than that one and placing your hotkeys in this order can help!").

And in regards to sending /tells to your friends about things that you cant say in a linkshell or FC-chat: Cant that wait til after the run (a run that should last something between 15 and 25 minutes, on average)?
Maybe I'm to... what would be the word... "pessimistic" here, but I believe that during a duty you should focus on that first, not on a conversation you're having with a friend (a conversation thats so private that you cant have it in a linkshell). FC-chats and linkshells seem kinda okay-ish to me, since there can be legitimate questions that you want to ask during a run (that cant be answered by the group), but even for those I've been in one to many runs where someone wasnt paying attention because they were chatting with their FC. I believe that would only get worse if you added private conversations to this mix, since those usually require even more attention than a group-chat (like LS, FC) that allows for you not responding for a few minutes.
Any conversation that needs to happen during a run with outside sources should be conversation that can be held non-privately - I'm thinking of things like "Anyone remember the mechanics for [boss]?" or "At what level is WHM getting Regen again? Because this guy isnt using it..." or even "Man, this tank here sucks...!"
Any private conversation that would require your attention should wait until the run is over - and if it cant wait, you either dont queue up or you leave the dungeon, have your conversation and re-queue once your penalty is over.

I see more harm than good in allowing for private conversations (aka /tells) during duty-runs - giving advice in group-chat seems preferable to me and having a little chat with your friend can wait until you actually have the time for that.

While doing mentor roulettes, I've had multiple run-ins with people who are doing extreme trials, but not actually reading party chat to know what the heck was going on so they really do need to permit some manner of communication in duties that can be seen at all times.

Some of them admitted to it after wiping the group several times and finally realizing that they must be doing something wrong, while I suspect others simply never bothered reading it at all.

There's something to be said about a gaming community when you have people unsure about the ethics/etiquette of sending tells to others in a dungeon.. this was a thing in all the other MMO's I've played, even FFXI, and it wasn't abused in such a way as people are fearing here. Even the devs obviously used some measure of social foresight when programming the chat system, and there's just a lot of stuff we can't do, that can be done in other games without much worry.

In the last 20 or so years, what's happened to people?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...and with that being said: I have to disagree with your proposal.
If you want to correct a mistake a party member made or give some advice, you should be able to phrase that in a way thats appropriate to be said in a group envoriment in the first place - and secondly: That advice might be useful to more than just the person you sent the /tell to - or maybe someone else in the group can give even better advice (for example: I can tell a dragoon that they need to pay attention to their buffs and positionals, but thats about it - if there is someone in the group who actually mains dragoon, they might be able to give additional advice or pointers such as "This buff is more important than that one and placing your hotkeys in this order can help!").

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My thought wasn't to whisper a random and tell them that they're doing something wrong, however there are quite a bit of people no matter how you phrase it that start to feel uncomfortable if someone is talking about them in a party, even if you're a group of friends the anxiety still kicks in. There have been multiple times I'm doing a roulette for example and I want to check my friends list to whisper something to a friend really quickly and not being able to have that functionality can get pretty annoying. Maybe they can figure out a way to whisper people you have in your friends list or something? I don't think going through the effort of having to make a linkshell with groups of friends is really a good way in doing things. There is also the chance that I only want to message 1 specific person from that linkshell which will force you to make multiple linkshells, it's similar to discord, you have your servers and then you have your dms both should be separate things.

For focusing in the dungeon, not to sound egotistical or anything but the dungeons (especially when just doing your roulettes) don't require much attention in general and sometimes just messaging people during that can make it more enjoyable, locking out almost everything social wise when entering a dungeon is just unethical in my opinion especially when you say if it is somewhat important being forced to leave the dungeon and suffer a penalty with something that could've been prevented by just having the ability to whisper during the dungeon. I think people just instantly assume the worst when it comes to whispers and I 100% see where they are coming from too, it can be very toxic and scary sometimes but I've noticed the FF community when it comes to toxicity handles it extremely well, also with my experience of MMO's I'd say 90% off all the whispers I have every received has not been in a toxic manner it's one of those things where a few people make it horrible for the rest.

I'm actually really glad that you can't send tells during dungeons. I sincerely wonder why people get into public content with others and don't have the common courtesy to focus on that content for the 15-20 minutes you're occupied. Hopefully SE never changes this. I mean, we have linkshells that do this anyway so this feels like a non-issue for people invested in being a decent player in a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by HadesNight

I'm actually really glad that you can't send tells during dungeons. I sincerely wonder why people get into public content with others and don't have the common courtesy to focus on that content for the 15-20 minutes you're occupied. Hopefully SE never changes this. I mean, we have linkshells that do this anyway so this feels like a non-issue for people invested in being a decent player in a dungeon.

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What about every other instanced area like Diadem where you can't mess up, my comment isn't just regarded towards dungeons itself but it's a good place to start

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

In the last 20 or so years, what's happened to people?

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It's just FF14 really.

The game is rather strange in that the devs go out of their way to handhold and protect their playerbase from things that are perfectly fine in pretty much any other game and the playerbase defends it to the death. Mailing alts, whispering in dungeons, endgame parsers, PvP communication and so on. Nope, can't have that, it'd cause toxic behavior. We must have one of the most toxic communities of any game ever made if it needs to be kept in check so strictly.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's just FF14 really.

The game is rather strange in that the devs go out of their way to handhold and protect their playerbase from things that are perfectly fine in pretty much any other game and the playerbase defends it to the death. Mailing alts, whispering in dungeons, endgame parsers, PvP communication and so on. Nope, can't have that, it'd cause toxic behavior. We must have one of the most toxic communities of any game ever made if it needs to be kept in check so strictly.

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It's odd, though I suppose it's just an unfortunate reflection of society. Quite a lot of players in this game seem to operate with a massive chip on their shoulder to the point where they cannot handle differences in opinion or attitude. They've also learned how to 'weaponise' the report system, by making a huge fuss over things that could easily be resolved by just agreeing to disagree or making use of the mature language filter/block system.

In my experience, the same players eager to report any and all slights against them are actually among the most spiteful, horrid players to interact with.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's just FF14 really.

The game is rather strange in that the devs go out of their way to handhold and protect their playerbase from things that are perfectly fine in pretty much any other game and the playerbase defends it to the death. Mailing alts, whispering in dungeons, endgame parsers, PvP communication and so on. Nope, can't have that, it'd cause toxic behavior. We must have one of the most toxic communities of any game ever made if it needs to be kept in check so strictly.

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I think it's just silly how this is the only MMO I've every played where these systems even exist, and I can never get used to it no matter the circumstance there have been multiple times where I've been in an instanced room and it just locks you out, I can understand the logic behind not being too fond of parsing (coming from someone that really enjoys to min-max) but I can't wrap my head around locking out your character from basically everything in certain scenarios. If people genuinely don't like the system I think they just shouldn't use it instead of completely removing it, because I have seen a 50/50 response where people do and don't want it.

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Originally Posted by Woodenbucket

What about every other instanced area like Diadem where you can't mess up, my comment isn't just regarded towards dungeons itself but it's a good place to start

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You can send tells in The Diadem.

I've seen people say some pretty horrid things to people in more public chats, but sometimes they're met with people calling them out. I've also had people world visit to mine after a duty just to whisper me and say obscenities to me because I didn't perform to their standard or that I pointed out that they were griefing or AFKing for a free ride or something.

Since it doesn't seem to be a technical thing, I'm sure SE has their reasons for not allowing it. Like others have said, it's possible to just use FC or linkshell chat. Or use an outside messaging system like Discord. And generally if what you want to say to someone could be perceived as too mean or something even if it's to help them, consider rephrasing it. Maybe adding a "please". Actually scratch that last part, people seem to get more mad if I say "please". Either way.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

You can send tells in The Diadem.

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you can't open your friends list/ fc up though so pretty much redundant

It's sort of strange to me that /tells are disabled in dungeons. The one time I actually tried to use one was to commend a healer for basically salvaging an absolutely terrible run in a way that wouldn't call the rest of the group out "publicly." But nope.

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Originally Posted by Woodenbucket

you can't open your friends list/ fc up though so pretty much redundant

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it is just within diadem and eureka even, and it is quite easy to find or see the people you wanna whisper too within diadem and eureka

GM's btw can send you tells in dungeons. So it is not an entirely impossible system.

I don't know if it's really an issue though, it doesn't have a huge impact on the gameplay if I can write in party alliance map or whisper chat.
WoW has each of their racial capital trading channels combined to one global channel, it could be used for guild recruiting in ff14 for example, easy to turn off and on. The ability to see the level,job of the person who spoke, might be interesting too - as an optional feature.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's just FF14 really.

The game is rather strange in that the devs go out of their way to handhold and protect their playerbase from things that are perfectly fine in pretty much any other game and the playerbase defends it to the death. Mailing alts, whispering in dungeons, endgame parsers, PvP communication and so on. Nope, can't have that, it'd cause toxic behavior. We must have one of the most toxic communities of any game ever made if it needs to be kept in check so strictly.

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I also remember they kept mentioning in interviews, in the lead up to SHB, they wanted to reduce healer/tank "stress" and "anxiety". And yet I frequently hear players of both these roles complaining that they have been watered down and become very boring, with a few exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I also remember they kept mentioning in interviews, in the lead up to SHB, they wanted to reduce healer/tank "stress" and "anxiety". And yet I frequently hear players of both these roles complaining that they have been watered down and become very boring, with a few exceptions.

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Those players are only speaking for themselves, not for everyone.

Easy or not, if I'm in an instance I've chosen to devote my time to that group and don't want to be distracted from what I'm doing by random tells made by people who bored. People send tells for the dumbest reasons with no regard for what the other player might be doing. If I'm healing a boss fight, I don't want to be hearing how someone's dog just peed on the bed and how they hate they now have to clean it up (and that's hardly the dumbest of the tells I used to get while in the middle of raiding in WoW). Save it for when I'm out of the dungeon and not otherwise busy if you want to vent at me.

Maybe if more players had the common sense and basic courtesy to ask themselves "is what I'm going to say important enough to interrupt my friend and distract them from what they're doing?", there would be less need to block tells within instances. Maybe if fewer players weren't doing it intentionally to harass and distract the other player at a time when they know the player will have difficulty responding to their rude interruption, there would be no need.

If there's an actual emergency that needs to interrupt what someone is doing, friends and family will have ways to contact the player outside of game chat to get their attention.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I also remember they kept mentioning in interviews, in the lead up to SHB, they wanted to reduce healer/tank "stress" and "anxiety". And yet I frequently hear players of both these roles complaining that they have been watered down and become very boring, with a few exceptions.

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I don't think that's really "stress" or "anxiety". That is just boredom and people being unhappy with their job changes. I started to tank full time with Shadowbringers, and I can most definitely say that tank/healer anxiety is a thing. Even after tanking for months and then taking a break for a few more and coming back...it's still there to some degree, but once I threw myself off the deep end by queueing for literally every roulette I'm largely getting over it again. When I played FF XI I was a PLD, and I had the confidence. After playing damage classes since quitting FF XI it's quite a change to go from 0 responsibility to looking after your party.

Would be nice give people advice via whisper maybe more would take it to heart because it does not invole blowing up their spot by calling them out infront of the entire group.

I want this now, if it gets people to actually talk to me.

Imo let us whisper pl in duty, but dont let them answer, so you can reach them and they can react after it.

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Originally Posted by Woodenbucket

you can't open your friends list/ fc up though so pretty much redundant

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/tell Wooden Bucket@Jenova You can still do it this way
/tell Wooden Bucket@Jenova It's pretty neat

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Those players are only speaking for themselves, not for everyone.

Easy or not, if I'm in an instance I've chosen to devote my time to that group and don't want to be distracted from what I'm doing by random tells made by people who bored. People send tells for the dumbest reasons with no regard for what the other player might be doing. If I'm healing a boss fight, I don't want to be hearing how someone's dog just peed on the bed and how they hate they now have to clean it up (and that's hardly the dumbest of the tells I used to get while in the middle of raiding in WoW). Save it for when I'm out of the dungeon and not otherwise busy if you want to vent at me.

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Well then introduce a do not disturb mode where it doesn't send the tell, also in wow you could create multiple tabs to ignore the whisper anyways.

No this will just lead to more toxic behavior, most people who want to use whispers during dungeons just want to sh*t-talk another player that is playing badly.

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Originally Posted by HadesNight

I'm actually really glad that you can't send tells during dungeons. I sincerely wonder why people get into public content with others and don't have the common courtesy to focus on that content for the 15-20 minutes you're occupied. Hopefully SE never changes this. I mean, we have linkshells that do this anyway so this feels like a non-issue for people invested in being a decent player in a dungeon.

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You do realize that you have a chatlog?
I'd love to be able to greet friends from other servers when coming online. They don't have to respond right away (I certainly wouldn't during a fight) but they can see it later.

Instead, I constantly get the "forbidden zone" idiocy and it can be several DAYS until I manage to be lucky to get through.

Linkshells are limited in number, so they are only a bandaid, not a solution.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I started to tank full time with Shadowbringers, and I can most definitely say that tank/healer anxiety is a thing. Even after tanking for months and then taking a break for a few more and coming back...it's still there to some degree, but once I threw myself off the deep end by queueing for literally every roulette I'm largely getting over it again. When I played FF XI I was a PLD, and I had the confidence. After playing damage classes since quitting FF XI it's quite a change to go from 0 responsibility to looking after your party.

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Mobs in dungeons hit like wet noodles, and nowadays you get the aggro by sneezing in the general direction of a mob. What exactly is there to take responsibility for?
I feel that people who moan about "anxiety" in regards to a VIDEO GAME are waaay out there, making a mountain out of a ... grain of sand.

I primarily heal and tank in this game. Sure, some savage raid mechanic may be of interest to a tank but most of the content is just a snoozefest, especially as a tank.
Back in the days of eld, when a mob could cleave the healer/DPS with one hit, healing aggro was a problem and a runaway mob was difficult to catch and regain control over: yeah I played in those days and there tanking could be frustrating/intimidating. Esp in early WoW with very little reliable AoE, constantly cycling through the mobs to keep tabs on all.

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Originally Posted by RagingStallion

No this will just lead to more toxic behavior, most people who want to use whispers during dungeons just want to sh*t-talk another player that is playing badly.

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Right click -> ignore player.
Works wonders for WoW. For everything else, whispering is very convenient. Esp giving tips w/o public embarrassment.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Easy or not, if I'm in an instance I've chosen to devote my time to that group and don't want to be distracted from what I'm doing by random tells made by people who bored. People send tells for the dumbest reasons with no regard for what the other player might be doing.

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Then don't read the chat straight away? Filter out tells in a background tab and read it after the fight?
Still leagues better than not being able to contact s/o at all because "lol duty".

BTW: SE could implement sth from Deadly Boss Mods in WoW, where, if you are infight, the whispering party gets an automated response of who you fight against, letting them know not to expect an immediate response.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Mobs in dungeons hit like wet noodles, and nowadays you get the aggro by sneezing in the general direction of a mob. What exactly is there to take responsibility for?
I feel that people who moan about "anxiety" in regards to a VIDEO GAME are waaay out there, making a mountain out of a ... grain of sand.

I primarily heal and tank in this game. Sure, some savage raid mechanic may be of interest to a tank but most of the content is just a snoozefest, especially as a tank.
Back in the days of eld, when a mob could cleave the healer/DPS with one hit, healing aggro was a problem and a runaway mob was difficult to catch and regain control over: yeah I played in those days and there tanking could be frustrating/intimidating. Esp in early WoW with very little reliable AoE, constantly cycling through the mobs to keep tabs on all.

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I'm sure a 6 years experienced tank/healer can fulfil his job eyes close while answering PM from a friend all that with one hand wandering somewhere but there is also people who don't have 6 years or more experience at tanking/healing in this game.

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Originally Posted by Kamome-chan

I'm sure a 6 years experienced tank/healer can fulfil his job eyes close while answering PM from a friend all that with one hand wandering somewhere but there is also people who don't have 6 years or more experience at tanking/healing in this game.

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As I said: tanking used to be challenging and scary. SE (and Blizzard too for that matter, since WoW is FF-XIV's role model) went to great lengths in order to eliminate virtually any hard stuff from both, healing and tanking alike.

With the exception of savage/ultimate, as usual but people that do that kind of content aren't the ones having "anxiety about tanking in a video game".

And no: even with MMO-Experience since 2007, I do not answer tells during combat. When in combat, I am there 100%, whether that is a leveling dungeon or a savage raid.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

As I said: tanking used to be challenging and scary. SE (and Blizzard too for that matter, since WoW is FF-XIV's role model) went to great lengths in order to eliminate virtually any hard stuff from both, healing and tanking alike.

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While maybe that's how SE intends for things to go, healing and tanking is rarely easy in general content. For some reason I see players that almost look like they're trying to take damage, like chasing people with AoE markers, running into and standing in damage, etc.

Saying tanking and healing is easy implies that everyone does their job correctly at all times, which is not the case. Sometimes when I'm healing I don't even have time to raise someone (even with Swiftcast) because if I stop for one second half of the DPS will die because they can't seem to avoid damage. And that has nothing to do with my ability to heal at all. Yesterday I was in Rabanastre and I pulled my alliance back from the brink of total annihilation (without LB) because somehow only the tank and I were left all of a sudden. It's not always a cakewalk.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It's not always a cakewalk.

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Obviously, not even SE can fix incompetent players.
LOOKING AT YOU THANCRED! :D

That has little effect on tanking though. Aggro is so easy that incompetent players don't manage to grab it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

In the last 20 or so years, what's happened to people?

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I presume it has something to do with the skeletons in society's closets being revealed and laid bare for all to see?