Add DPS roles to Warrior ?

Since basicly Warriors can go Tank or DPS mode (Offtank in 8 man dungeons) but Warrior class (Berserker subjob maybe) for people who want just dps for fun ?

No.

Its a tank. Stop trying to make it not a tank. All tanks are DPS, they just also have to do tank things.

Not in 8 man's they arnt all they are is DPS offtank class if 4 man dungeon then yes they are tank class

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Originally Posted by Drakeos

Not in 8 man's they arnt all they are is DPS offtank class if 4 man dungeon then yes they are tank class

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They are still tanks in 8man. War isn't always offtank. PLD, DRK, GNB are also offtanks. It just depends on who wants to pull it.

War is not special.

So kinda like the split between SMN and SCH? If so that's likely never going to happen sadly. They've already expressed their frustrations over sub-jobs and how it makes balancing SMN and SCH a positive nightmare given the skills they share from arcanist. If they do something like that again it's likely that any DPS rendition of the class will be branching off at 1st level to avoid that particular headache - and due to that it likely won't even feel like WAR anymore aside from also having an axe model.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No.

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I'm starting to sense a theme with you....

Honestly, maybe it would add some spice to WAR, since its currently kinda meh/not fun anymore.
If im feeling like a tank, i go WAR, and if im in the mood for something different, i swap to (insert job name here) to DPS with an axe. (id imagine maiming gear, since i doubt they would want it having fending gear)
The SCH/SMN issue no longer applies, since they dont share stats anymore. And with the missing animations of old abilities, they even have something to give the new job, and save time with animations. Yeah... I could dig it.
(I know they wont do it, since their goal is to raise the starting level of new jobs, rather than go back to Lv30 unlocks)
Another alternative is to require MRD at LvX (Lets say 70, if next jobs start at 70) and unlike the SMN/SCH split, it doesnt share the same level, but is a completely different job from 1-90. But unlike current jobs, it just had a prerequisite class leveled. (could be much lower as well, doesnt have to be 70) Remember how PLD needed GLA and CNJ leveled? sort of like that, since the job would be related in lore. (WARs story could go more into the homeland of curious george, and talk about an alternative fighting style, which is now the new job)

In the end, this would actually increase the number of tanks, as people who never touched WAR would have to level it, just to unlock the DPS. (In case that was ever a concern)
I could see doing this for a few other jobs too. AST could be the prereq for TIM caster. CNJ can be the prereq to unlock GEO caster. Those two would increase healers in the game. We've seen plenty of complaints about WAR, DRK, and GNB being tanks instead of DPS, ever since each was introduced, so a possible DPS made of each maybe. Doesnt have to be each, just throwing out ideas.

Doesn't need to be part of WAR since it's highly unlikely they will add more diverging jobs. However I'd really love having a Furious Berserker DPS job, that archetype missing from this game while it's usually very popular in other MMOs. Personally I think I'd rather have a dual wielding fury Warrior type of job instead of heavy two handed, but not entirely sure.

Imo Claire described it best in another thread:

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Yeah, trying to explain theres a huge desire/void for the "I want to smash things with a big weapon, using aggressive angry force as a DPS" is very hard, since its something you 'feel', rather than a single word sums up easily. Unfortunately its easier to define it by what its not, than what it is. I've personally never cared for this type of DPS, but I did notice FF14 lacked it, and ive never seen an MMO do that before. Its usually the #1 most played DPS in every MMO, so to exclude this "type" surprises me. We could argue which needs to be added, for the sake of balance, but in the end of the day, I think it would be in SEs best interest to actually make stuff people want to play, and there is a large demand for.

(Another detail seems to be if the weapon is something you "Swing". Which seems like even a 1hander weapon can give this feel, unlike what was mentioned above. If they wielded a 1 handed mace/hammer, people would say it feels right, even if they hate those kinds of weapons. Along with the rest of the aesthetic looking more warrior/knight like)

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Not sure which other Final Fantasy job might fit into that, Viking maybe? Honestly, a potential reason for why SE is hesitant on adding such job is to make sure Tanks stay populated enough, since people who are in favor of such archetypes are kind of forced to play Tank right now and they might like to keep it that way to battle Tank shortage.

So you want longer ques to do a similar combat style without tank responsibilities or advantages? Am i getting that right? So samurai-ish hp, dragoon-ish defenses, monk-ish damage, and losing the defensive and healing skills? I would say no to that, but is that what you want?

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Originally Posted by Frizze

So you want longer ques to do a similar combat style without tank responsibilities or advantages? Am i getting that right? So samurai-ish hp, dragoon-ish defenses, monk-ish damage, and losing the defensive and healing skills? I would say no to that, but is that what you want?

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The tank aesthetic as well as gameplay style doesn't really facilitate the Fury Berserker Warrior type well. Berserkers would be all about DPS, going in an all out frenzy hitting stuff as hard as you can with little other considerations, that's what I'd like to imagine when being a berserker. Tanks however are there to protect allies, use defensive abilities, soak damage and control the flow of battle (which is rather limited in FFXIV though). I think it goes without saying that this doesn't fit a furious berserker's aesthetic as wel as playstyle very well. MMOs that do offer a barbarian type of Tank seem to also have a berserker-like DPS variance more focused on the archetype I've just described.

And this is coming from a WAR main who has the bear mount so it's not that I particularly dislike tanking, I'd just love to have an all out berserker dps as well.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

The tank aesthetic as well as gameplay style doesn't really facilitate the Fury Berserker Warrior type well. Berserkers would be all about DPS, going in an all out frenzy hitting stuff as hard as you can with little other considerations, that's what I'd like to imagine when being a berserker. Tanks however are there to protect allies, use defensive abilities, soak damage and control the flow of battle (which is rather limited in FFXIV though). I think it goes without saying that this doesn't fit a furious berserker's aesthetic as wel as playstyle very well. MMOs that do offer a barbarian type of Tank seem to also have a berserker-like DPS variance more focused on the archetype I've just described.

And this is coming from a WAR main who has the bear mount so it's not that I particularly dislike tanking, I'd just love to have an all out berserker dps as well.

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That's funny, I don't remember such complaints when WAR was "zomg overpowered 8×fellcleave420blazeit". It's almost like there is a reoccurring theme with guaranteed slot classes in previous expansions getting all uppity that they actually have to compete now and all they can seem to come up with as a rejoinder is "muh job aesthetics" when they had no complaints about the aesthetics of the job beforehand.

Just food for thought.

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Originally Posted by Razard

That's funny, I don't remember such complaints when WAR was "zomg overpowered 8×fellcleave420blazeit". It's almost like there is a reoccurring theme with guaranteed slot classes in previous expansions getting all uppity that they actually have to compete now and all they can seem to come up with as a rejoinder is "muh job aesthetics" when they had no complaints about the aesthetics of the job beforehand.

Just food for thought.

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I mean I kind of agree with this sentiment, but I don't see how that has anything to do with the person you're replying to.

WAR kind of is the odd man out of the tanks. PLD are literally high class body guards, DRK is about defending those who are trampled on by society, GNB also has roots in high class body guarding from what I remember.

WAR is about watching Curious Gorge mess up over and over again, I mean getting really mad and hitting people.

I'd love it if they ever add skill trees or something like that, I've had a paladin buddy main tank in a 4 man dungeon for me while I acted like I was a melee dps on war, it was pretty fun.

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Originally Posted by Razard

That's funny, I don't remember such complaints when WAR was "zomg overpowered 8×fellcleave420blazeit". It's almost like there is a reoccurring theme with guaranteed slot classes in previous expansions getting all uppity that they actually have to compete now and all they can seem to come up with as a rejoinder is "muh job aesthetics" when they had no complaints about the aesthetics of the job beforehand.

Just food for thought.

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Outside of like 3 posts I've only started posting on these forums since ShB so I might as well have expressed this desire earlier were I more active.

I didn't complain about current WAR, I'm expressing my desire for a non-tank berserker, a whole different job and I'm giving my reasoning for it. I'm not for turning current WAR into a dps, they can stay how they are. I'm for adding another DPS that fits the fury berserker archetype, as is evident in other posts I made earlier in this thread.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Why are you quoting me? What complaints? I didn't complain about current WAR, I'm expressing my desire for a non-tank berserker, a whole different job and I'm giving my reasoning for it. I'm not for turning current WAR into a dps, they can stay how they are. I'm for adding another DPS that fits the fury berserker archetype, as is evident in other posts I made earlier in this thread.

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I mean:

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The tank aesthetic as well as gameplay style doesn't really facilitate the Fury Berserker Warrior type well.

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Even though "Fury Berserker Warrior type" is the entire lore and aesthetic of the job. It's just about focusing it into a protective force rather than an indiscriminate destructive one. Besides what does such a theorectical class bring to the table in terms of gameplay, varety and lore that WAR doesn't? Other than higher numbers and a red icon.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Outside of like 3 posts I've only started posting on these forums since ShB so I might as well have expressed this desire earlier were I more active.

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Also lol, Whatever you say captain contrarian. No need to get defensive. I'm just giving you some Feedback ;).

More to the point, I was using your post as a vector to express a current malady of the forums as of late. You in particular may not have made this "complaint". But I have seen these sorts of feelings being expressed and then fall silent when thier place on the tier list falls then rises again. Look at Summoner for ready confirmation that any complaints about "Job Identity" go down the toilet after a good hard buffing. Apart from outlier weirdo's who think Egi Glamours should be a top priority (lol).

Just mulling through thoughts I guess.

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Originally Posted by Razard

I mean:

Even though "Fury Berserker Warrior type" is the entire lore and aesthetic of the job. It's just about focusing it into a protective force rather than an indiscriminate destructive one. Besides what does such a theorectical class bring to the table in terms of gameplay, varety and lore that WAR doesn't? Other than higher numbers and a red icon.

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Gameplay variety wise I think it can be done by making them a fast one handed dual wield berserker instead of big two handed. One with lower GCD like the other melee dps or with many oGCDs to the point they feel fast and brutal. Lore wise, keeping it Final Fantasy they could go with Viking perhaps? They seem to usually be tanks though in other FF games but perhaps wouldn't matter much if they rebrand it.

Just looked up and seems that some FF games also have distinct Berserker job. They could go with just "Berserker" and add some unique lore to it. It might fit with the Dalmascan?

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Originally Posted by Razard

Also lol, Whatever you say captain contrarian. No need to get defensive. I'm just giving you some Feedback ;).

More to the point, I was using your post as a vector to express a current malady of the forums as of late. You in particular may not have made this "complaint". But I have seen these sorts of feelings being expressed and then fall silent when thier place on the tier list falls then rises again. Look at Summoner for ready confirmation that any complaints about "Job Identity" go down the toilet after a good hard buffing. Apart from outlier weirdo's who think Egi Glamours should be a top priority (lol).

Just mulling through thoughts I guess.

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I see what you mean. I have only been active in FFXIV forums since Shb as I had said earlier so I wouldn't know if this is the case. If this were true I don't think the complaints have to be completely invalid though, it could very well be that the dissatisfaction with the job theme/aesthetic was always there but the fact that your job is OP or very well placed in meta trumps the theme dissatisfaction for some people and makes people tolerate it more and deem it less worthy of complaining, perhaps out of fear to lose the meta position.

Could also be a coincidence and/or faulty/biased correlation, idk.

...They used to be able to do that via Deliverance, but the idea of tank DPS stances aren't a thing anymore. We've come full circle now - most of you are asking for things you didn't like, to come back now because you realize they were good after all.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

...They used to be able to do that via Deliverance, but the idea of tank DPS stances aren't a thing anymore. We've come full circle now - most of you are asking for things you didn't like, to come back now because you realize they were good after all.

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Honestly, Tank gameplay boiled down to

>Have aggro

>Never use tank stance ever again

Stance dancing wasn't a thing at the end of Stormblood, and it's for the best that tank stances got canned.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

The tank aesthetic as well as gameplay style doesn't really facilitate the Fury Berserker Warrior type well. Berserkers would be all about DPS, going in an all out frenzy hitting stuff as hard as you can with little other considerations, that's what I'd like to imagine when being a berserker. Tanks however are there to protect allies, use defensive abilities, soak damage and control the flow of battle (which is rather limited in FFXIV though). I think it goes without saying that this doesn't fit a furious berserker's aesthetic as wel as playstyle very well. MMOs that do offer a barbarian type of Tank seem to also have a berserker-like DPS variance more focused on the archetype I've just described.

And this is coming from a WAR main who has the bear mount so it's not that I particularly dislike tanking, I'd just love to have an all out berserker dps as well.

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I mean, for what it's worth, Berserker in DnD was a tank in 4E, at least partially. I'm not sure on the exact specifics of how it worked but given part of how Berserkers work is continuing to power forward even if they're injured and drawing a lot of attention in so doing I can see how it works perfectly fine as a tank. Tanking doesn't have to mean super protective and more just "biggest threat and able to handle the heat".

As far as the proposed solution, while I would definitely be on board with some sort of DPS swap for all non DPS and a Tank/Healer/Support swap for all existing DPS I don't really see it happening.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I mean, for what it's worth, Berserker in DnD was a tank in 4E, at least partially. I'm not sure on the exact specifics of how it worked but given part of how Berserkers work is continuing to power forward even if they're injured and drawing a lot of attention in so doing I can see how it works perfectly fine as a tank. Tanking doesn't have to mean super protective and more just "biggest threat and able to handle the heat".

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I think most (MMO)RPGs have a berserker type of class as Tank, and I get why and how that works. There's usually one or multiple dps variances too though and that's what imo is missing in this game, for the reasons I've described in that post. Monk is the closest thing in this game when it comes to that, but the mystic shaolin kung fu theme kind of ruins the resemblance (as it should, being a Monk). All the other Melee dps are more "precision" strikers.

FF in general doesn't have a ton of those jobs so it's not too surprising. It's not really the kind of aesthetics JRPGs go for. Even Dragoon, who is a heavy fighter of some sort, is a lot more along the lines of refined than a Berserker.

I was mostly just pointing out that Berserkers can be tanks. Honestly I'm kind of surprised they went the road they did with Warrior as opposed to a different theme. Granted the only ideas I have would basically be either another knight (as we already basically have three I'm not a huge fan of that idea) or taking from existing melee DPS.

Not gonna happen.
But I do think we're due a melee class that wields giant hammers and maces, could share maiming gear with DRG.

No? Tanks are already hard enough to come by, and you want to let 1/4th of all tanks play as dps instead?

Want to play as a dps? Level a dps, this game is designed around making leveling multiple jobs as easy as possible. Bored with the job you're playing? Well you can have an entirely different play experience with a literal click of a button. Same character, same account, same resources. Tacking on a DPS option to WAR just so some players can fulfill some aesthetic power fantasy just sounds silly.

Personally, I'd prefer they create a new job called Berserker or Viking that dual wields one handed axes (or hammers if they want to change it up more.) It could be an all out dos purely focused on dealing damage. Give it a buff called Berserker Fury OGCD that works like Blood for Blood (or something similar). All in all, they could make a cool class out of it if they did introduce it as dps. I'd be really happy, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Drez

No? Tanks are already hard enough to come by, and you want to let 1/4th of all tanks play as dps instead?

Want to play as a dps? Level a dps, this game is designed around making leveling multiple jobs as easy as possible. Bored with the job you're playing? Well you can have an entirely different play experience with a literal click of a button. Same character, same account, same resources. Tacking on a DPS option to WAR just so some players can fulfill some aesthetic power fantasy just sounds silly.

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Eh, while I certainly understand that I can emphasize with the fact that the DPS style they want isn't really present. Wanting a job that fits the particular style you want isn't exactly an unreasonable ask, and given FF doesn't have Berserker style jobs much (and the one we have arguably has eaten up the space of any remaining ones (I don't entirely agree, but it's not an unreasonable opinion)) trying to find a way to get that in some manner still is understandable. The reason any of us ask for new jobs in general is because there is some aesthetic or mechanical implementation we want to see that isn't currently in the game. With four melee DPS already and likely the new jobs coming to a halt soon enough it's not like there is much space for a full new job either.

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Originally Posted by Drez

No? Tanks are already hard enough to come by, and you want to let 1/4th of all tanks play as dps instead?

Want to play as a dps? Level a dps, this game is designed around making leveling multiple jobs as easy as possible. Bored with the job you're playing? Well you can have an entirely different play experience with a literal click of a button. Same character, same account, same resources. Tacking on a DPS option to WAR just so some players can fulfill some aesthetic power fantasy just sounds silly.

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Or people simply go play other MMOs which do have that type of class, or people don't even start playing FFXIV because it doesn't have that type of class. It's usually a very popular archetype (e.g. in WoW, the "Fury Warrior" spec has always been one of the most popular).

Don't underestimate how big of a difference it can make in player enjoyment for many considering if they can identify and express their fantasy archetype in a game or not. It's why when you google any MMO name, one of the first autofill suggestions is always "... classes", even for FFXIV the autofill "FFXIV classes" shows up (even though it's "jobs"). I believe it's people looking up which classes are available in an MMO before they even consider starting the game, I do the same thing before I consider another MMO.

Given the usual popularity of such archetype, could implementing it perhaps mean an influx of new players (just like how GNB might have drawn in some players)? Could it mean some players would be more satisfied (=more chance they stay subbed)? It's for SE to weigh that consideration I guess.

1 good point perhaps is the tank role shortage, I can see it increase if such job would come out and perhaps that's a big reason for why it's not on the table.

edit: note that I'm talking about a whole new job, I realize we won't be getting any diverging jobs from existing classes.

Being able to switch WAR to a DPS mode would require to make a new Job, which also needs its own kit of skills, wear a different gear set (maiming maybe?), and also use a different weapon (honestly, i hate the idea of having another axe in my inventory). SMN and SCH already were/are a pain in the ass for SE to balance, so i don't think they will ever try to do something similar again.



Ohh, right, this will also need it's own set of Job Quests

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

They are still tanks in 8man. War isn't always offtank. PLD, DRK, GNB are also offtanks. It just depends on who wants to pull it.

War is not special.

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It also depends on if the other tanks decide to provoke instantly off the WAR, even if they just got ressed....so many times I'm tanking something as WAR(like the Goliath tanks at the end of Copied Factory) and one of the other tanks decides to provoke it...when I haven't even been hit by the massive beam yet. Or the other tank just got back up after going splat, is barely at half HP, and provokes. I just let them have it, it's their parties issue, not mine.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

It also depends on if the other tanks decide to provoke instantly off the WAR, even if they just got ressed....so many times I'm tanking something as WAR(like the Goliath tanks at the end of Copied Factory) and one of the other tanks decides to provoke it...when I haven't even been hit by the massive beam yet. Or the other tank just got back up after going splat, is barely at half HP, and provokes. I just let them have it, it's their parties issue, not mine.

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I really hate when other tanks decide suddenly, at the end of a raid, that they want to spam provoke and try to rip aggro off me. I feel your pain.

I personally wish all tanks had a mode that essentially made them DPS. More options are never bad.

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Originally Posted by Klaleara

I personally wish all tanks had a mode that essentially made them DPS. More options are never bad.

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If you like 30 minute queues or more, sure.

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Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe

I really hate when other tanks decide suddenly, at the end of a raid, that they want to spam provoke and try to rip aggro off me. I feel your pain.

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It's one reason I always start any raid with tank stance off. I will take over for a dead tank, or one that gets ripped into a mechanic(Orbonne second boss), but if they suddenly get ressed, or come back...don't just provoke to try and prove something. I'm tanking perfectly fine, and if both my healers are dead, and I'm at 1/4 HP, sure, take over...but if I'm at nearly full and not dropping much, keep your provoke for when I am actually in trouble.

If you want a DPS role as warrior, just play machinist. It’s surprisingly similar.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

If you like 30 minute queues or more, sure.

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I mean, if we are denying an option purely because of queues in a game, things are done wrong.

Why not make it so depending on the mode they are in when they queue, is dependent on tank or dps queue?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No.

Its a tank. Stop trying to make it not a tank. All tanks are DPS, they just also have to do tank things.

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Your posts are on fire, saying basically what I'd like to say- just a lot less mean. I appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Or people simply go play other MMOs which do have that type of class, or people don't even start playing FFXIV because it doesn't have that type of class. It's usually a very popular archetype (e.g. in WoW, the "Fury Warrior" spec has always been one of the most popular).

Don't underestimate how big of a difference it can make in player enjoyment for many considering if they can identify and express their fantasy archetype in a game or not. It's why when you google any MMO name, one of the first autofill suggestions is always "... classes", even for FFXIV the autofill "FFXIV classes" shows up (even though it's "jobs"). I believe it's people looking up which classes are available in an MMO before they even consider starting the game, I do the same thing before I consider another MMO.

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Then then should go play that MMO? Not every game is going to fill every desire for every player. If another MMO fulfills what someone wants better than XIV then they should be playing that game instead. If I liked WoW more than XIV I would be playing WoW I owe no loyalty to Square or this game. I'm not going to personally disregard the entirety of a game as huge as XIV because one class isn't exactly how I want it to be. That's just being short sighted and reductive.

Case in point: I was a Red Mage main in Final Fantasy XI for EIGHT years. When I started playing XIV I didn't jump up and down and throw a tantrum because RDM wasn't in the game at all. I found a different job that I enjoyed and played that instead.

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Originally Posted by Drez

Then then should go play that MMO? Not every game is going to fill every desire for every player. If another MMO fulfills what someone wants better than XIV then they should be playing that game instead. If I liked WoW more than XIV I would be playing WoW I owe no loyalty to Square or this game. I'm not going to personally disregard the entirety of a game as huge as XIV because one class isn't exactly how I want it to be. That's just being short sighted and reductive.

Case in point: I was a Red Mage main in Final Fantasy XI for EIGHT years. When I started playing XIV I didn't jump up and down and throw a tantrum because RDM wasn't in the game at all. I found a different job that I enjoyed and played that instead.

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I kind of explained my point in the remainder of that post which you didn't include in the quote. I'm just saying that it's something that may be worth considering. Nobody owns loyalty to this game, it's just about feedback and player satisfaction.

I wouldn't really consider it shortsighted if you decide to leave a game because it doesn't support your fantasy archetype, it's a RPG - role playing game - after all, and that aspect is more important to some than others (for their enjoyment).

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I kind of explained my point in the remainder of that post which you didn't include in the quote. I'm just saying that it's something that may be worth considering. Nobody owns loyalty to this game, it's just about feedback and player satisfaction.

I wouldn't really consider it shortsighted if you decide to leave a game because it doesn't support your fantasy archetype, it's a RPG - role playing game - after all, and that aspect is more important to some than others (for their enjoyment).

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I would agree, but how well a request can work is important to take into account. What’s being proposed would, effectively, likely mean all non DPS jobs can be DPS, as it being for Warrior only is unlikely. So at least in terms of this current proposed solution it’s not exactly plausible. Things don’t exist in a vacuum and taking that into account is important.

And ultimately it’s not something FF does a whole lot of, Berserkers. You could probably count the number of jobs that fit that kind of theme on one hand, and FF has a lot of jobs. More popular jobs than those ones too, if the poll here is to be taken into account.

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Originally Posted by MirronTulaxia

I would agree, but how well a request can work is important to take into account. What’s being proposed would, effectively, likely mean all non DPS jobs can be DPS, as it being for Warrior only is unlikely. So at least in terms of this current proposed solution it’s not exactly plausible. Things don’t exist in a vacuum and taking that into account is important.

And ultimately it’s not something FF does a whole lot of, Berserkers. You could probably count the number of jobs that fit that kind of theme on one hand, and FF has a lot of jobs. More popular jobs than those ones too, if the poll here is to be taken into account.

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The proposal could be reinterpeted in a need for berserker DPS, regardless of being part of WAR or not. It could be a unique job too that, except for the energy, doesn't resemble current WAR at all. Example I gave is a one handed dual wielding berserker, which is quite unique for this game. Just something that's resembles that theme more than Monk does would already be great imo. I think GNB could potentially have fit it decently enough if it were a DPS.

If you want to play a DPS, there's 10 options to do it. 11 if you count Blue Mage.