Next new job better be heals

Better get a new healer job next

Why? And what are you going to do if we don't get it?

Lmao. Honestly, I hope there isn't a healer next expac. SE can't handle healer balance without making them "WHM but with...." I'd rather have 3 boring classes over 4 boring classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Why? And what are you going to do if we don't get it?

---

I hope it involves force-feeding them insects or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

Why? And what are you going to do if we don't get it?

---

Don't know about him, but I'll unsub.

New Healer or not, they have a chance to either realize their mistakes and take some feed back, or keep messing up.

They mess up again, I'm completely done with Healing as they will have shown to not get healing and trusting them to fix it is a mistake.

At this point it would be such a poor choice on their part not to include a healer that they 100% will add a healer. Of course it won't do them or us any good if they keep the current healer status quo. We'll just have 4 jobs we play but kinda don't want to play, instead of 3.

I kinda hope so too, I haven’t given up hope that SE cant make a good healer, and frankly the only way we’ll be able to really see if SE has absolutely no clue what their doing with healer design is to wait for 6.0 and see if it fixes or double downs on 5.0’s issues, and depending on what happens we’ll have our definitive answer.

There's 2 levels of head scratching with this one. How do we design a new healer that's distinct enough gameplay-wise and also distinct thematically. It's hard to theory because nothing naturally fits there and I've never seen anyone hit a home run on ideas for this. Necromancer doesn't make sense to me as a healer. Shooting healing darts is weird too. Chemist encroaches on alchemist, we got the potions already they just don't go out into the field throwing them on people. On a gameplay level we are already covering the very limited ways healing can make sense in a game with this kind of encounter design.

I like seeing ideas, I just haven't seen any that get me hyped enough to think they gotta do this. I guess my personal wish would be an Ivalician arithmetician who has an option to store and stack up the smaller heals, addition them (combine) into one big heal when burst healing is needed. If we got too complicated on some of the calculation abilities it would upset people who are bad at math but I think that would be an interesting option for people who are into that. Jobs don't need to appeal to everybody that's why we got a lot of options.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MintnHoney

I hope it involves force-feeding them insects or something.

---

An Entomancer could be interesting. :D
Maybe they could control a swarm of aether-eating insects that drain aether from an enemy target and grant the party heals from it.

Personally? I think adding a forth healer could address a couple of the issues going on. The one I'm thinking about is the idea that all the current healer design philosophies from ShB could go into the new healer and bring the other healers into a state that respects their design better and what people got out of them before being put in the state they are now. It means the people who praise the changes have got something and those whose preferred healers have changed for the worst can get back what they loved.

But the cynic in me, past experience and looking at where we are with healers and the damning silence from the devs on it agrees more with Billy. My biggest concern with a 4th healer is that it'll be subject to the same issues we've got and be a bit 'meh'. It'll likely feel good to begin with because new healer role to learn with new shinies, but once the initial novelty goes and the healer problems set in, it'll not feel worth having the 4th healer. I'd prefer them to address the big problem of how healers play. It feels like this problem needs dealing with first IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

There's 2 levels of head scratching with this one. How do we design a new healer that's distinct enough gameplay-wise and also distinct thematically. It's hard to theory because nothing naturally fits there and I've never seen anyone hit a home run on ideas for this. Necromancer doesn't make sense to me as a healer. Shooting healing darts is weird too. Chemist encroaches on alchemist, we got the potions already they just don't go out into the field throwing them on people. On a gameplay level we are already covering the very limited ways healing can make sense in a game with this kind of encounter design.

I like seeing ideas, I just haven't seen any that get me hyped enough to think they gotta do this. I guess my personal wish would be an Ivalician arithmetician who has an option to store and stack up the smaller heals, addition them (combine) into one big heal when burst healing is needed. If we got too complicated on some of the calculation abilities it would upset people who are bad at math but I think that would be an interesting option for people who are into that. Jobs don't need to appeal to everybody that's why we got a lot of options.

---

I mean, Chemist doesn't have to be *called* Chemist, and there's a lot of mechanical design space for the class. Not too long ago I put together a full 1-80 kit for the class (calling it Medicus) and I think I managed to make it fairly mechanically distinct from the other healers while still fitting encounter design in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leidiriv

I mean, Chemist doesn't have to be *called* Chemist, and there's a lot of mechanical design space for the class. Not too long ago I put together a full 1-80 kit for the class (calling it Medicus) and I think I managed to make it fairly mechanically distinct from the other healers while still fitting encounter design in this game.

---

I like your name for it better. Must have missed that one. Non magical delivery of heals to people at long range is still a bit of weird concept (lob a medikit like American football?) but we have stranger things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

I like your name for it better. Must have missed that one. Non magical delivery of heals to people at long range is still a bit of weird concept (lob a medikit like American football?) but we have stranger things.

---

Mind if I toss a link to the thread, actually? It's a bit of a doozy as a read, but I've spent probably more than a healthy amount of effort on trying to balance the numbers lol.

I don’t mind either way if we get a new healer or not. I’d rather them work on balancing the 3 we have. Hopefully in 6.0 they can all go back to being great but we shall see. However if they do give us another healer I would love to see geomancer. Since Whm is moving away from elemental magic and to more light and holy magic that leaves room for Geo to pick up those elements. I don’t like chemist so I’m biased towards it lol. I love magical healers. Even a melee healer will a great addition. I’m rooting for Geo.

Something I'd like to see from the existing healers and the new healer (hopefully), is having them differentiate how these healers contribute to rDPS.

I know this is a sensitive topic, but rDPS is a concern for healers and how we perform in battle--not just our healing tools. The problem right now is that, outside of Astrologian's cards and Chain Stratagem, there are few ways we can do this outside of Glare/Broil/Malefic spamming. This both isn't fun for those of us who are fine with DPS contributions as a healer and those who don't like it. What I think would help all of us be happier with the state of healing is redefining how each healer does this, and having 2 of the healers be more passive while the other 2 get more aggressive.

WHM and AST make good candidates for the passive healers. These should be designed to appeal to the "thou shalt not DPS" healers where their kits should minimize their reliance on offensive spells. The AST's cards are a good example of this: Spend more time giving damage to other party members so you don't have to do it yourself. Perhaps AST should get more abilities like this, perhaps a buff that deals X Potency damage to the enemy while the party member with the buff uses Spells or Weaponskills, or more tools like Earthly Star that both heal AND deal damage. WHM currently has Afflatus Misery which acts as DPS forgiveness, but if we make Blood Lily generation more valuable than Glare, and ways to spend our time trying to nourish this Lily faster, then WHM becomes the healer who gates their DPS behind GCD healing (Aff. Solace/Rapture). You contribute to rDPS by healing, basically.

SCH and the new Healer can be more aggressive--finding ways to maximize the time they have to contribute to DPS while protecting the team and having more intricate ways to DPS rather than just mashing the Broil button. In the example of SCH, we have the fairy already. Why not take some of the healing tools off the SCH and place them on the Fairy? Make the SCH more about micromanaging the Fairy's healing while you DPS the enemies. Healer 4 could be a drain healer that heals the party by doing damage. Not a necessity, but 1 possibility.

With a system like this, you'd have healers for all kinds of player mentalities. We don't really need to force one side or the other to bend to our preferred way of playing FF14 if we have different jobs that compliment those different styles evenly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SweetPete

I don’t mind either way if we get a new healer or not. I’d rather them work on balancing the 3 we have. Hopefully in 6.0 they can all go back to being great but we shall see. However if they do give us another healer I would love to see geomancer. Since Whm is moving away from elemental magic and to more light and holy magic that leaves room for Geo to pick up those elements. I don’t like chemist so I’m biased towards it lol. I love magical healers. Even a melee healer will a great addition. I’m rooting for Geo.

---

Taking away the elements from white mage and then just slapping them on another class in the same role would seem like such a waste, I feel like. At least switch the roles up. It would be like making another healer and giving them the old card effects from Ast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mimilu

An Entomancer could be interesting. :D
Maybe they could control a swarm of aether-eating insects that drain aether from an enemy target and grant the party heals from it.

---

Pretty sure the only Entomancer we'd get at this point is one to be sicced on the devs, not by the devs, which I think was the joking suggestion above.

I guess I see your point. However I am sure square can spice up the job with those elements haha. Anyway, I was thinking of Morpher too. With the Nu Mou in the game now I can totally see Morpher becoming a new job. We have nothing in the game like it and it will definitely bring some edge back. It doesn't have to be a limited job either. It can be a regular job. For the job quest. Go out and capture monsters. Take back to the Nu Mou. They work their magic and Bam you can turn into a monster. There are lots of monsters in the game that has healing spells to so it can definitely work. Who knows right :) Guess we just have to wait. Geomancer or Morpher will be great additions I think. Especially Morpher since there is nothing in the game like it at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BasicBlake

Taking away the elements from white mage and then just slapping them on another class in the same role would seem like such a waste, I feel like. At least switch the roles up. It would be like making another healer and giving them the old card effects from Ast.

---

I guess I see your point. However I am sure square can spice up the job with those elements haha. Anyway, I was thinking of Morpher too. With the Nu Mou in the game now I can totally see Morpher becoming a new job. We have nothing in the game like it and it will definitely bring some edge back. It doesn't have to be a limited job either. It can be a regular job. For the job quest. Go out and capture monsters. Take back to the Nu Mou. They work their magic and Bam you can turn into a monster. There are lots of monsters in the game that has healing spells to so it can definitely work. Who knows right :) Guess we just have to wait. Geomancer or Morpher will be great additions I think. Especially Morpher since there is nothing in the game like it at this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SweetPete

I guess I see your point. However I am sure square can spice up the job with those elements haha. Anyway, I was thinking of Morpher too. With the Nu Mou in the game now I can totally see Morpher becoming a new job. We have nothing in the game like it and it will definitely bring some edge back. It doesn't have to be a limited job either. It can be a regular job. For the job quest. Go out and capture monsters. Take back to the Nu Mou. They work their magic and Bam you can turn into a monster. There are lots of monsters in the game that has healing spells to so it can definitely work. Who knows right :) Guess we just have to wait. Geomancer or Morpher will be great additions I think. Especially Morpher since there is nothing in the game like it at this point.

---

I'm not sure if I see Morpher being a thing since they didn't even return the job in FFTA2. Regardless, the jobs in FF14 are kept in a very streamline fashion so that there's no variability in your performance in that job. This is why Blue Mage is limited based on the way it's implemented. They don't want BLU to be queuing for duties despite missing spells or using gimmicky spells that are either useless or flat out OP, at least not for regular progress. This isn't FF11. I could see it maybe as a limited job, but I'd rather they continue developing BLU and let it eventually evolve into a job that actually can perform in a streamline fashion and be used in normal content one day.

Some jobs that I do think are either more likely or could be good editions:

Geomancer - Just because they might use earth/wind/water doesn't mean their application has to be the same as Conjurer's. Lots of jobs have fire attacks, for example, and that doesn't make them Black Mage clones.
Apothecary - Virtually the same as "chemist" that gets talked about a lot. I strongly prefer the name "Apothecary" though because there's less direct overlap with the Alchemist crafting job.
Minstrel/Flautist - This is an odd one since Bard exists, but Bard's more 80% archery, 20% music. It could be cool to have an exclusive musician playing healing songs.
Dreamweaver - Since the BLU has introduced the Whalaquee people of the New World, perhaps we could have someone traveling to Eorzea from there teaching people the art of healing through dreams? Random thought, but I would die for the aesthetic.
Drain Healer - I'd say "Necromancer" falls into this category, which others have also talked about. I'm not really sure how much I like that name though, since that is a fairly traditional class in RPGs that is essentially the opposite of a healer. Something along the lines of that or a Vampire (as seen by Bravely Default) could be feasible.

I'd really like to see the Chemist like a scientist and brewing experiment class.
Like Ninja with their Mudra.
For example:
Using the Skill A + B will result in some reaction (predictable by the user of course) and there would be another skill to throw it!
Elixirs and Potions are pretty good tho, but they lack in healing power, which i rather believe that in Chemist it should be stronger.
Otherwise a Chemist that work with new different kind of concentrated potions, distorted elixirs and umbral ethers.

I'm a very fan of artistic and performance classes in games.
That's why i highly vote for separating the BRD concept from the Archer. Going for Sharpshooter instead.

1 - BRD/MSC: New job based on elements of music to accelerate the pace on the battlefield. Bringing melodic tunes to heal and aid the low-spirited fighters.
The new bard would succeed in the Healer archetype and would fulfill more the idea of a singing, performance class. Pairing very well with AST.
2 - Necromancer / NCM: Channeling the dark arts of necromancy, this new Healer oriented class balances itself on life and death purposes. Using lifelines,
spiritual bonds and necrotic barriers would be a great class to manage damage nullifying, like SCH.
3 - Arithmetician / AMT: Using calculation to fulfill with exact certain their strategy any AMT is a formidable ally and a terrifying enemy. Foreseeing incoming
damage. Reverting, mathematically, any hypothesis of death threat the AMT would be a good friend for WHM enthusiasts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wundermotte

I'd really like to see the Chemist like a scientist and brewing experiment class.
Like Ninja with their Mudra.
For example:
Using the Skill A + B will result in some reaction (predictable by the user of course) and there would be another skill to throw it!
Elixirs and Potions are pretty good tho, but they lack in healing power, which i rather believe that in Chemist it should be stronger.
Otherwise a Chemist that work with new different kind of concentrated potions, distorted elixirs and umbral ethers.

---

Gadgeteer/Engineer. Make it a tech/chemical healer from the Empire as they don’t like White Magic. Sure the conscripts use it but full blooded Garleans need a way to heal without it.

On the note of WHM and elements, personally I’d rather see them return rather than given to another job. WHM is the counterpart to BLM. They have an dark and light thing going, which means one gets a light focus and certain elements associated (stone, air and water) and the other a dark focus and the elements associated (thunder, fire and ice) and to push the holy focus at the loss of elements feels like a departure to WHM’s theme, whilst BLM is there embracing theirs.

So ,y argument is to bring back rocks and aero and finally give a decent water spell. Glare and Dia should be additional spells not upgrades. And by adding a few extra stuff spells WHM would also suddenly have more to and solve that problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

WHM and AST make good candidates for the passive healers. These should be designed to appeal to the "thou shalt not DPS" healers where their kits should minimize their reliance on offensive spells.

---

I don't like this idea at all.
I love WHM thematically and aesthetically. But I also love the idea of doing a lot of dps as a healer. So I would be forced to give up the class I like the design of the most just because it probably wouldn't be fun to play anymore. No thank you. I'd rather have more interesting dps options as WHM. Especially as WHM because it already is the simplest healing job, so it wouldn't become too complicated if you give it something like a dps combo or something like that. Don't make it even simpler and even more passive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Limonia

I don't like this idea at all.

---

Not only that - SE seemed to be of a similar mindset to ty_taurus for a while and it nearly killed WHM in the raid scene.

The concept of DPSing and healing is not rocket science..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saefinn

But the cynic in me, past experience and looking at where we are with healers and the damning silence from the devs on it agrees more with Billy. My biggest concern with a 4th healer is that it'll be subject to the same issues we've got and be a bit 'meh'. It'll likely feel good to begin with because new healer role to learn with new shinies, but once the initial novelty goes and the healer problems set in, it'll not feel worth having the 4th healer. I'd prefer them to address the big problem of how healers play. It feels like this problem needs dealing with first IMO.

---

Ripped the words right out of my mouth. The thing is, the fourth healer will always be subject to the healer status quo. If we don't want that with the current state of healers, it's imperative that it changes.

Unfortunately, I don't think the devs see the biggest healer gripes (can all be boiled down to the amount of downtime the role has) as a problem. I think the way healers are designed now gives them a lot of flexibility with how to design encounters, and giving healers more to do will tighten those windows. In short, encounters would indeed become more difficult and I don't think they are willing to go there. At least not yet. I believe they would like to get the percentage up of those who participate in EX and Savage before they do that. This is just speculation on my part though.

Even though I think the current state of healers should be resolved before bringing in a 4th, I seriously doubt that it's gating the devs from making that decision. I think there is a lot of pressure on SE to bring in a 4th healer in 6.0 or it will be riot in the streets. I believe it's coming whether or not the game is ready.

The issue then becomes why they cannot give us more to do DPS-wise if they are not going to change up encounter design and/or healing requirements. Well, in an official statement (though not word for word) they said that the reason for not giving healers a more complex DPS rotation was because they don't want healers losing focus from their primary function in a party, which is something data retrieval would show, and could easily be pulled up for them if they looked into encounters of all types prior to ShB.

It's tough for me not to side with the devs here. I'm willing to wager they do have that conclusive data that shows KOs happening that could have been prevented. It's likely happened to all of us when not playing a healer, or unable to sustain ourselves when playing a healer: We see our health sub 50% with an incoming attack, and the healer chooses an offensive GCD instead of a restorative one; or when we are lying on the ground waiting for a rez, and go-go happy healer is DPSing away with a full bar of mana. This happens even today as of patch 5.25 despite the lack of things for healers to do.

Every expansion has shown a repetition in healers and their behaviour, and from a bird's eye view, it would seem that DPS skills have gradually and continuously been stripped away from healers in response. There is a direct contradiction with how a large demographic of the playerbase wants healers to play with how the devs themselves envision healers in FFXIV. In short, 6.0 doesn't look good for the healers of that mindset. Again though, this is all purely speculation based on what I've observed over the years. I've never taken a healer into relevant savage or ultimate, and its these encounters that SE will base everything on, and let the rest snowball down into the casual stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Limonia

I don't like this idea at all.
I love WHM thematically and aesthetically. But I also love the idea of doing a lot of dps as a healer. So I would be forced to give up the class I like the design of the most just because it probably wouldn't be fun to play anymore. No thank you. I'd rather have more interesting dps options as WHM. Especially as WHM because it already is the simplest healing job, so it wouldn't become too complicated if you give it something like a dps combo or something like that. Don't make it even simpler and even more passive.

---

What I suggested for WHM though wasn't less DPS overall. Just instead of standing there and mashing Glare into oblivion, you focus on healing, then blast the enemy with potentially a stronger Afflatus spell, then try and get lilies back so you can keep blasting that spell.

I don't even care about the balance at this point tbh, it all works out in the end anyway. Just want a new Job to heal with.

Not gonna happen, but my biggest wish would be for next healer to be Bard while current bard becomes Ranger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SamRF

Not gonna happen, but my biggest wish would be for next healer to be Bard while current bard becomes Ranger.

---

There are a few options I could see happening, but none of them seem particularly likely.

Option A is that we get Ranger as a new, Crossbow-wielding Ranged DPS, giving us 4 of each DPS (If you include Blue Mage). Bard can adopt more musical attacks while Ranger focuses on arrow attack. I imagine this could make some Bard players upset though, as it would mean the job they have spent so much time on could be fundamentally changed.

Option B is that Bard sticks to archery and doesn't really develop any more musical capabilities. Instead, the new Healer is a Minstrel/Musician/Flautist or something to that nature, being a purely music-based healer. I find this less likely but more appealing to more players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Option B is that Bard sticks to archery and doesn't really develop any more musical capabilities. Instead, the new Healer is a Minstrel/Musician/Flautist or something to that nature, being a purely music-based healer. I find this less likely but more appealing to more players.

---

Oh yeah I'd love that actually and perhaps prefer that. That way you can play both "half" bard dps job as well as a "full" bard healer job. Would really like that and maybe main both jobs then.

Indeed don't really see it happening though.

Regardless if they want to or not, I do believe to some degree that they feel guilty about the state of healers. I feel that the radio silence on healer issues has to do with them not wanting to admit they failed again at balancing the healers.

Personally, I think that adding a new healer would be at the very least, helpful to balancing out the current ones. The problem is that they have to pick and choose which one gets shafted for each expansion since there's only 3. Adding 1 more could help with having different compositions of heals instead of (strong rDPS healer + second best rDPS healer).

They seem to not really understand that striping away complexity from healers has only caused more vets to leave the role while not bringing in new ones. Tanks and healers by default have more responsibility and are first looked at when mistakes happen. This scares a lot of new players so they go to the role with the less responsibility, DPS.

SE needs to focus on making healers' kits functional while creating unique experiences for new and old players alike. Dumbing them down would only serve to make it boring after awhile and thus flocking to the more involved DPS role.

As for what new healer could be, who knows? I'm sure it'll be cool and fun, and SE can make that happen but it's up to them whether or not, they keep hurting the healing community in favor of more easy entry changes rather than building/tweaking what's already there.

Also taking the elements from WHM and slapping it onto a new healer would be in poor taste IMO since you start off as a CNJ. Same with removing time magic from AST.

I hope the next healer doesn’t involve flashing lights and dresses. I want a combat medic with tourniquets. Every time a player gets a critical hit we see the medic running with bandages and shots. When a player dies the medic takes out a stretcher and defibs the player as the battle rages on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I hope the next healer doesn’t involve flashing lights and dresses. I want a combat medic with tourniquets. Every time a player gets a critical hit we see the medic running with bandages and shots. When a player dies the medic takes out a stretcher and defibs the player as the battle rages on.

---

Are you animation locked? Do you take damage while you are running across the map with these abilities?

Now, before I forget (and in keeping with the combat medic theme people seem to enjoy), here's the Chemist thread link I promised.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ed-job-concept

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

. Chemist encroaches on alchemist, we got the potions already they just don't go out into the field throwing them on people.

---

Chemist: Mix function similar to Mudras.

1 button: Basic upgraded heal

2 buttons combo: High powered ST heal or aoe heal

3 buttons combo: heal over time circle, A boss debuff, or raid wide buff

Just spitballing the 3 button thing.

I think a 4th healer in 6.0 inevitable as the devs seem to want to keep the roles equal.But I don't think it would be ideal under the current circumstances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I hope the next healer doesn’t involve flashing lights and dresses. I want a combat medic with tourniquets. Every time a player gets a critical hit we see the medic running with bandages and shots. When a player dies the medic takes out a stretcher and defibs the player as the battle rages on.

---

So a nurse/Doctor then? could be interesting. I for one would want a healer that can open up Tank-esque options for glmaour. A battlemage if you will.

Might be interesting going a little further and have them only heal those in melee range of themselves.