What I would like to see in future monk!

So been thinking about what I would like to see in the future monk I def would like to see some kind of buff or something that changes or augments snap punch. its the last hit in our rotation chain and to be honest its a wet noodle LOL!! I would like to see something like fist of the thunder god or something like that where if you maintain GL or keep demo up for X amount of time the next snap punch turns into it kinda like dragoon just to give that wet noodle some more ooomf! Also would like to see riddle of fire change into or be replaced with something like we saw way back in the day during monk quest line and we go super saiyan like widargelt as a personal DPS buff. just some flavor I would like to see or hundred fist as a steroid for recast timer and or auto attack would be dope.

But the main thing is I would like to see rockbreaker and arm be changed animation wise arm is kinda cool seeing the ground crack but we can do so much better and rockbreaker just looks mey? or is it just me?

I just want something to make charges less reliant on luck. Even during Brotherhood it can end up barely being a single forbidden chakra if you're unlucky. Everything else is cool beans.

yeah im just thinking of some new things and or things that can be added or expanded on and just my personal wants haha hundred fist would be sweet af

In order of importance...

1. More to deliberately build towards (rather than gain merely as byproduct) in the mid-term, e.g. between rotational strings and RoF/Bro/PB.
   
   
2. Highly flexible rotations with initially simple targets but tremendous nuance by the time one reaches optimal high-level play, especially given the context above. These may originally seem forgiving but should ultimately instead feel precise (with many forking and intersecting rotational pathways with a hefty situational factors and changeability). Choices should be deliberate, but failed plans should allow you to adapt to new ones.
   
   
3. Great aesthetic flow. The skills should look like they really do chain into each skill available after this. If that takes using a whole lot of conditional skills, so be it.
   
   
4. Varying speed, be it by complex control of a (far more polished) GL- or stance-like mechanic, different skills causing different %GCD lengths (e.g. from 40 to 100%, conditionally or baseline), the creation of buffs from shared resource systems, or even by the implementation of a granular Stamina resource around which to vary between accelerated and slightly delayed rotational strings. This should be fairly integral to the 2nd point above.

for me:
1. just make all the gl maintenance skills be under only one single skill instead of the 4 we have(and if posible, said skill freezes it whit not need of stand still)
2. they should expand greatly what we can do whit chakra, because atm is a total joke(if posible as ogcds)
3. remove the RNG from chakra generation
4. there should be 14 chakras(7 of light 7 of darkness) to use on chakra skills so the job gets some kind of complexity

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Originally Posted by Xau

for me:
1. just make all the gl maintenance skills be under only one single skill instead of the 4 we have(and if posible, said skill freezes it whit not need of stand still)
2. they should expand greatly what we can do whit chakra, because atm is a total joke(if posible as ogcds)
3. remove the RNG from chakra generation
4. there should be 14 chakras(7 of light 7 of darkness) to use on chakra skills so the job gets some kind of complexity

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ohhhhhhh yeah adding the dark chakras could be cool I forgot about those!! and yeah having the 4 skill maint is so bad and TK need to be changed or cut

1. Remove the aspects from Stormblood that we hated that weren't fixed or were actively made worse in Shadowbringers. The record of this is two years old and the devs still haven't done anything. That is things like removing Crit RNG and reworking Brotherhood so it isn't both comp dependent and have RNG on it.

2. As an extension of the Crit RNG removal, rework Chakra completely. Right now it's designed as a downtime loss mitigator as it was in Heavensward which has created all manner of problems that have been outlined in other threads such as the "Monk needs a complete rework" thread that's been on the front page of the DPS forums for months now. Also it bare's repeating, but people really don't like the double layered RNG on it, or really RNG on this job at all.

3. Remove the Fist stances. The devs are so utterly enamored with putting traits on these and keeping them around its baffling, despite them still having not fixed the fundamental problem of there only being one dominant fist stance because only one increases your damage the most. In Shadowbringers they basically repeated Tackle Mastery, but as two traits. Enhanced Fists of Fire is earned and becomes invalidated over the course of about 6 levels by New!Riddle of Wind. Get rid of them, let's not have a third expansion where Fist Stances get traits that do nothing.

4. Rework all of the terrible utility skills we've gained over the years for Greased Lightning. Tornado Kick need not exist in the current design of the game and is lackluster as capstone skill, Six Sided Star is just as lackluster as a capstone skill, Riddle of Earth was bad as it was designed and the Positional Nullification is a bit overblown even if it's semi-necessary, Anatman basically exists so they could nerf Perfect Balance to keep us from using Tornado Kick. Tornado Kick in particular needs a fundamental change in how it functions because its a noose around the jobs design while Anatman has been rendered basically useless by making Formshift as capable of upkeeping GL as other jobs upkeep buttons.

5. Return some of the skills they've removed. Touch of Death, transfer Fracture to Monk, and returning Howling Fist would all be greatly appreciated with how little we have on the job at the moment.

6. Reconsider how Dragon Kick was changed. Yes it was altered as part of the removal of physical debuffs, but Leaden Fist puts a disproportionate amount of potency on Bootshine's potency and further skews perfect balance towards being a damage cooldown when the devs clearly want it to be how we gain our Greased Lightning/Twin Snakes. If it were a small persistent self buff to Critical Hit rate for example with a 14 second duration like it basically was before since as Monk was the only job to truly use Blunt damage (yes haha booksmacks/canes macks but really) then Monk wouldn't have nearly as much potential positional damage loss and there wouldn't be quite as much emphasis on spamming Leaden Bootshines.

7. Not a problem with Monk as designed but more the developer attitude of the developers towards it. Listen to our feedback and implement it in a timely manner instead of making us wait full expansions when you know we hate something. It shouldn't have taken the devs a full expansion to do something about the slow on Riddle of Fire when they knew it was a problem from the get go and why. I've been playing since Heavensward and every time it seems like Monk has a problem with anything, it always seems like it's the lowest possible priority for the devs to fix it.

Please, dev team, for the love of all that is holy just remove the RNG from the job. I am aware that a lot of people are frustrated with how useless a lot of skills are like SSS and TK or the fist stances, but I cannot put into words how upsetting it is to by default, be at a disadvantage because there isn't a DRG, SCH or DNC in the party. To have an entire half of the job locked behind two forms of luck.

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I've been playing since Heavensward and every time it seems like Monk has a problem with anything, it always seems like it's the lowest possible priority for the devs to fix it.

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How many times have we seen this happen in Shadowbringers already? BRD's removal of double layered RNG, but not doing anything about Chakra. Or how SAMs got their Shoha reworked after complaining that it's a situational skill, and yet doing absolutely nothing for TK and SSS? I'm pretty sure MNK has received more changes in PVP than it has actual changes in this expansion.

Consecutive normal punches
Serious series : Serious punch

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

3. Remove the Fist stances. The devs are so utterly enamored with putting traits on these and keeping them around its baffling, despite them still having not fixed the fundamental problem of there only being one dominant fist stance because only one increases your damage the most. In Shadowbringers they basically repeated Tackle Mastery, but as two traits. Enhanced Fists of Fire is earned and becomes invalidated over the course of about 6 levels by New!Riddle of Wind. Get rid of them, let's not have a third expansion where Fist Stances get traits that do nothing.

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You mean you're not looking forward to our level 82 and 86 traits? Lv82 Trait: Fists of Fire increases damage by 15%. Lv86 Trait: FoW Increases Damage by 5%. But don't you forget about our new capstone level 90 ability! Leaden Foot: All positional damage up 20% but places heavy on MNK. Y'know, to make hitting those positionals a monstrosity lmao. (I'm joking devs, don't put this in the game. I know it's the sort of thing you'd do because you don't want MNK to actually be fast so you find ways to slow them down through BS loopholes within niche skills).

Monk kinda needs more oGCD attacks tbh. I'm quite surprised that they removed Howling Fist in the first place, as it would have made Monk a bit more... "fun" to play.
Give more abilities tied to the chakra I think. Or more ways to build them efficiently. Maybe, if you add an oGCD attack, make its activation grants one or two chakra ?

Also, fist stances are cool and neat, but I'd like it if there was an actual incentive to switch them in a fight. Currently FoW is way better because it gives us speed up on attack and movement. Sure, peoples still uses FoF for the opener, but it's kinda lame to see a skill so important before get dumped to the first few seconds of your opener because it gets useless after that. And don't get me started on FoE... :p

I do like the new Riddle of Fire tho, maybe add an attack at the end that ends RoF when used ? A bit like the lv80 Paladin spell ! Maybe make Tornado Kick consume the RoF buff and not Greased Lightning if used during RoF ? That would be really cool imo, and would reduce the numbers of useless skills without deleting them entirely.

yeah I do hate when i join a party and im the only physical damage so I look at the tank and im like please give me your energy and then I dont get any chakra from brotherhood so I kinda cry inside and TK has to go or be chnged in 6.0 if i see in a video that its staying the same I will break down and cry at my computer

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Originally Posted by Eliadil

Monk kinda needs more oGCD attacks tbh. I'm quite surprised that they removed Howling Fist in the first place, as it would have made Monk a bit more... "fun" to play.
Give more abilities tied to the chakra I think. Or more ways to build them efficiently. Maybe, if you add an oGCD attack, make its activation grants one or two chakra ?

Also, fist stances are cool and neat, but I'd like it if there was an actual incentive to switch them in a fight. Currently FoW is way better because it gives us speed up on attack and movement. Sure, peoples still uses FoF for the opener, but it's kinda lame to see a skill so important before get dumped to the first few seconds of your opener because it gets useless after that. And don't get me started on FoE... :p

I do like the new Riddle of Fire tho, maybe add an attack at the end that ends RoF when used ? A bit like the lv80 Paladin spell ! Maybe make Tornado Kick consume the RoF buff and not Greased Lightning if used during RoF ? That would be really cool imo, and would reduce the numbers of useless skills without deleting them entirely.

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I agree I do wish they made switching stances a thing I always feel so cool when i start an opener in FoF then switch to FoW right before that 4th GL stack then..... just nothing sit in FoW the rest of the fight

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Originally Posted by Eliadil

I do like the new Riddle of Fire tho, maybe add an attack at the end that ends RoF when used ? A bit like the lv80 Paladin spell ! Maybe make Tornado Kick consume the RoF buff and not Greased Lightning if used during RoF ? That would be really cool imo, and would reduce the numbers of useless skills without deleting them entirely.

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The difference here is that under requiescat, you have a set amount of GCDs limited by your MP. RoF has no such restrictions and so depending on your GCD you could either end it too early or not be able to get Tornado Kick off. A better solution would be to have it be more like Life of the Dragon and Nastrond/Stardiver, so you can only use it under RoF, but it doesn't end it. Obviously, either way it is just copying another job and not adding anyting unique, which might or might not be an issue for some people.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The difference here is that under requiescat, you have a set amount of GCDs limited by your MP. RoF has no such restrictions and so depending on your GCD you could either end it too early or not be able to get Tornado Kick off. A better solution would be to have it be more like Life of the Dragon and Nastrond/Stardiver, so you can only use it under RoF, but it doesn't end it. Obviously, either way it is just copying another job and not adding anyting unique, which might or might not be an issue for some people.

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I was thinking more of something in the lines of SMN's Dreadwyrm Trance, along with DeathFlare who ends the Trance when used. But your solution can work too, but needs to have a set cd on Tornado Kick, so peoples don't spam it too much. Or maybe so the goal is to have two TK in a RoF window, like Nastrond in LotD. :D But I admit that I prefer the first option, that isn't at least a copypasted version of another melee's kit.

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Originally Posted by Eliadil

I was thinking more of something in the lines of SMN's Dreadwyrm Trance, along with DeathFlare who ends the Trance when used. But your solution can work too, but needs to have a set cd on Tornado Kick, so peoples don't spam it too much. Or maybe so the goal is to have two TK in a RoF window, like Nastrond in LotD. :D But I admit that I prefer the first option, that isn't at least a copypasted version of another melee's kit.

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Honestly, that combination has always felt to me like an odd mixture of button bloat and latency-punishment ever since fast-Trance / Early Deathflare fell out of use. I hit this one button so I can later hit this other button that cannot be used except under button A and I want to keep for the last moment but often fails to go off if not used more than a second earlier than my duration would appear to fade.

I'd far prefer the flexibility of Nostrond's design, especially since it doesn't waste a separate button just to activate its own in-window-only action, but would still rather see something more unique for a change, rather than more job-to-job copy-pasta.

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Originally Posted by Tyrius

I agree I do wish they made switching stances a thing I always feel so cool when i start an opener in FoF then switch to FoW right before that 4th GL stack then..... just nothing sit in FoW the rest of the fight

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Depending on how much the rework the job, I made a suggestion on another thread that might work with this....

Was suggesting that both to address the issues of useless fist stances as well as the gutting of off global cool down moves, I'd like to see some method of implementing the blitz attacks Sabin uses in FFVI. And to that end.... they could have the attacks themselves change based off what stance you're in. Something like the same button will execute Fire Dance if you're in fists of fire, but would do Razor Gale if you're in firsts of wind.

I'd even take something like one fist stance turns your off global cool down moves into lower potency AOE skills while the other is higher damage, single target skills (think like Garuda summon vs. Ifrit for summoners)

Sure raid fights would still be largely just once stance, but even if there's a floor with lots of adds, or for running dungeons, you'd have a reason to more often use the other stance.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Depending on how much the rework the job, I made a suggestion on another thread that might work with this....

Was suggesting that both to address the issues of useless fist stances as well as the gutting of off global cool down moves, I'd like to see some method of implementing the blitz attacks Sabin uses in FFVI. And to that end.... they could have the attacks themselves change based off what stance you're in. Something like the same button will execute Fire Dance if you're in fists of fire, but would do Razor Gale if you're in firsts of wind.

I'd even take something like one fist stance turns your off global cool down moves into lower potency AOE skills while the other is higher damage, single target skills (think like Garuda summon vs. Ifrit for summoners)

Sure raid fights would still be largely just once stance, but even if there's a floor with lots of adds, or for running dungeons, you'd have a reason to more often use the other stance.

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Just locking specific moves behind the fist stances sounds like keeping them around as unnecessary bloat IMO, especially if it's going to lock skills from a new subsystem like Blitzes (I'm assuming there'd be some button input requirement there). Further it would just be annoying if they don't fundamentally change from what they are now and we had to slow down from GL4 to go into fire stance, or lose 10% damage and speed to go into earth stance.

Making a single stance the AOE stance also just strikes me as trying to keep the fist stances around just to keep them. Monk has an AOE loop independent of the stances already, there's no reason to tie Monk AOE unless you're only goal is to keep the Fist Stances for the sake of keeping them.

The Fist Stances should go, there's no point in keeping them around because they might have potential if that potential is never realized. I'll even go so far to say that the fist stances actively detract from the job's development at this point by continuing to get traits that do nothing, when traits could easily be added to other aspects of the job that also have potential.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Something like the same button will execute Fire Dance if you're in fists of fire, but would do Razor Gale if you're in firsts of wind.

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Atop that concept and ones similar to it, if we get rid of Greased Lightning as such, we could perhaps switch over to a granular resource (call it, say, "Ki") or the like which could then be consumed by the different stances, allowing the stances to be used as shared resource burst phases to be rotated between in a flexible manner. For instance, have this "Ki" resource be generated by relative potency dealt or absorbed. Using Fists of Wind gives additional means of spending Ki (e.g. Shoulder Tackle becomes Wind Spike, with a reduced cooldown which could be further "rushed" at Ki cost) atop a variable drain rate and passive benefits (e.g. Ki spent within the stance thus far steadily increases its drain rate and added Attack and Movement Speed). Want uber-speed immediately? Spam Wind Spike. But, your Fists of Wind phase will last that much less time. Or, we could just have Wind Spike offer added Attack and Movement Speed with each use, with each Wind Spike's consequent bonus fading individually, for even more control but less sense of a deliberate "Wind" phase.

Of course, we'd also want to decide if stances ought to be able to be cancelled by swapping to another stance only, also by cancelling the stance, or only upon either Ki depletion or after one fails to sustain the stance through some relevant action. To give an example of that last option, we could have it so Fists of Wind automatically ends if you don't Wind Spike within X seconds, based on drain rate, so that you have the option to drop out of Fists of Wind early without what might seem like the bloated or mundane option of just turning the stance off.

You could then keep "Riddle of X" on its 90-second cooldown, but able to interact with any of the above stances, either staying as the first stance used during the effect (or active when Riddle was triggered) even as one swaps to something else (if we go that route), or swaps its bonus with any later swaps.

The more I play FFVII Remake, the more I'd love for them to borrow inspiration from how Tifa plays in that game. I believe it has been mentioned here before with Zell's limit break from FFVIII. Either way, I rather like the idea of a combo system that creates its own chain of "limits" you're supposed to unleash.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Just locking specific moves behind the fist stances sounds like keeping them around as unnecessary bloat IMO, especially if it's going to lock skills from a new subsystem like Blitzes (I'm assuming there'd be some button input requirement there). Further it would just be annoying if they don't fundamentally change from what they are now and we had to slow down from GL4 to go into fire stance, or lose 10% damage and speed to go into earth stance.

Making a single stance the AOE stance also just strikes me as trying to keep the fist stances around just to keep them. Monk has an AOE loop independent of the stances already, there's no reason to tie Monk AOE unless you're only goal is to keep the Fist Stances for the sake of keeping them.

The Fist Stances should go, there's no point in keeping them around because they might have potential if that potential is never realized. I'll even go so far to say that the fist stances actively detract from the job's development at this point by continuing to get traits that do nothing, when traits could easily be added to other aspects of the job that also have potential.

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You're assuming that they keep everything the same and only implement additions of this system that is so roughly conceptualized by me, that it's not even clear how they would add it. So if the job gets a total revamp, then there's no reason to assume that GL4 is still tied to fists of wind, especially if your OGCD moves are dictated by your fist stance. If this type of system is added as a button input (which is also like the system another person suggested in copying Zell's limit break) then either GL has to go, or its timer could to be frozen when you go into entering your combo.

People want fist stances to mean something, and there's only really a couple ways you can do this. You can make the different stances do different things that are viable in different situations, which is how they approached the Ifrit/Garuda situation on summoner, or you can force the monk to cycle through their stances akin to bard songs. The latter really does just have stances maintained for the sake of keeping them while the former does at least give some rationalization of keeping them.

If there are better uses or things that the stances can do, I'm all in favor of it. But I do think that there needs to be something to make them viable rather than just deleting them entirely.

The question is, why do people want fist stances to mean something? If it's just going to be a system where X is better than Y, it's no better than what we have now, if you rotate between them, it is just copying Bard. If they are more situational, then isn't that counter productive to what people want to achieve? We want less situational skills and a more complete kit and with that, when thinking of a rework/redesign, don't think about how you can try and force them in but think of a system and see if they CAN fit. If they can, sure, add them, if they can't, then don't force them in.

A quick way you can keep the fists in, is have them be cooldowns and have them upgrade to the riddles at a higher level. Have Fists of fire be a 20 second 10% damage buff, which is upgraded to Riddle of Fire to give the current 20 second 25% damage buff. With Fists of Earth, you have the defensive side, then when you get Riddle of Earth, it adds Earths Reply and the GL refresh to the effect. I can't quickly think of a use for Fists of Wind/Riddle of Wind, unless it's a GL generator, which could make Tornado Kick useful, however I would prefer them remove Tornado Kicks reliance on GL stacks altogether.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

Further it would just be annoying if they don't fundamentally change from what they are now and we had to slow down from GL4 to go into fire stance, or lose 10% damage and speed to go into earth stance.

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Isn't all this kind of like assuming that "TK had a potency bug in SB, so it must always have a potency bug in all future expansions as well"? Stances have interacted with GL, and seemingly for no reason other than to avoid actually making the stances interesting in their own right, for all of one iteration out of 5. And it has not been well received. Why assume that, of all things, must stay in the context of so much larger changes as suggested above?

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

The question is, why do people want fist stances to mean something?

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A few likely remember that 1.x Monk could outright tank in FoE (though not quite so well vs. heavy tankbusters as a cross-classed Pugilist), could kite in Wind, and dealt top-tier damage rotating between Wind (which increased Attack Speed and reduced its CDs and was therefore used over each mini-burst, because getting an extra mini-burst in between main bursts was faintly more efficient than buffing each of fewer mini-bursts, especially since the increased Attack Rate more than afforded that extra mini-burst's TP costs, back when AAs generated TP) and Fire (which was still just a straight damage buff). Arguably, Monk back then was overpowered in its versatility, but it was definitely a fun time to be Monk, among that lineup.

In other cases, because deliberate action, and restyling oneself to set up for those actions, is fun.

The problem is merely that it's done so little to act as a deliberate action or setup for a broad set, or "style", of actions.

With ARR, Fists of Fire was halved and Fists of Wind had its Attack Speed and Recast Speed components removed making it purely a DPS-negative situational minor movement speed increase, for instance. Why? With those components, Wind had sufficient reason for rotation alongside Fire. Without it, it was a situational skill AND too weak of one to be worth using (a mere 10% movement speed buff... when you have access to Sprint-Invigorate and can't swap back to Fire for 3 seconds) in most situations that would otherwise call for it.

The outcry of "But they've tried so many different ways to fix it!" since ARR is disingenuous. They've tried at most two, and only if you count tangential changes as attempts to fix stances.

The first was Tackle Mastery. It, and the TK rotation it obliged in Crit comps, especially at lower SkS levels, had mixed reception. I loved it despite being among those most screwed over by it. Most Monks I've met in game with under 100 or so ping miss it badly. Burd apparently hated it and has insisted that the vast majority of Monks did likewise despite that even on this forum it's had pretty good reception.

The second is the GL4 we have now, which has even less to do with the stances themselves and more a matter of "Well, we can't rightly get rid of RoW when we still have RoF and RoE, so let's just finally give them that GL4 they've been bitching for and lock into to Wind for thematic 'reasons'."

And so we've had all of two tangential changes and use this as proof that stances can never, will never, be fixed despite that their very first iteration, back in 1.x, allowed for multiple styles of play by, apart from a few key moments, making the difference between stances small enough that as long as you followed through on your setup, you could play in roughly optimal fashion and true optimal play required precise rotation between stances that was not merely limited to "use A for 30 seconds, then B for 30 seconds, repeat" as a Bard's would be.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

In other cases, because deliberate action, and restyling oneself to set up for those actions, is fun.

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All I want for Christmas is my Burning Crusade Protection Warrior stance dancing playstyle back.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

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So, "The outcry of "But they've tried so many different ways to fix it!" since ARR is disingenuous."? But pointing to a version of the game that existed more than a decade ago and played vastly differently as an example of fist stances working isn't?

"The fist stances totally worked in this failed version of the game!" is not a good argument for keeping the fist stances. The devs have had 7 years to make the fist stances into something meaningful or with actual choice, elected to do nothing for the first 4 , and then when they actually made attempts, failed, and then failed to learn from the first failure. When the choices are 'do nothing', 'failure due to not learning from previous failures' and 'success' it's hardly surprising people don't want to give the devs another attempt. Being stuck with bloat fist stances for another two years because the devs once again failed to put thought into making them meaningful or an actual choice isn't something I and many others are willing to take a chance on. Especially when we seem to be eternally on the bottom of the priority list for dev attention.

Can the fist stances be made to be interesting and facilitate actual choices? Yes
Do I trust the Devs to put in the time, thought, and effort to successfully, purposely create such a thing? No. Especially not without it resulting in other issues being left unresolved or creating whole new issues.

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

So, "The outcry of "But they've tried so many different ways to fix it!" since ARR is disingenuous."? But pointing to a version of the game that existed more than a decade ago and played vastly differently as an example of fist stances working isn't?

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Nit picking here... but you realize the game from 1.0 to now isn't more than a decade old, yes?

1.0 launched in September 2010 and ARR came out in August 2013. So none of these systems are "more than a decade ago"

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Originally Posted by Ramura_Sono

So, "The outcry of "But they've tried so many different ways to fix it!" since ARR is disingenuous."? But pointing to a version of the game that existed more than a decade ago and played vastly differently as an example of fist stances working isn't?

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The idea has been there have been multiple attempts since ARR to fix stances, and thus there must not be any way to fix it. There have been no further adjustments to the stances themselves since ARR except to adjust the % damage on Fists of Fire, which they'd already left as the 24/7 stance, equitable to a mere damage aura buff to Monk when they don't want to bother with individual potency buffs.

At the same time, the only other take on stances, by which Fists of Wind affected all matters of speed (Attack, Recast, and Movement), accomplished the very things people are adamant can never be accomplished.

When you call something singular (ARR-ShB's version of stance) multiple, and ignore the literal half of all other versions (pre-ARR) to make your point, yeah, that's disingenuous.

There's nothing about the game state that allowed for FoW at that time to exist as a combat stance competing with FoF. It was the simple fact that it offered offensive benefits comparable to FoF.

Version 1: Attack, Recast, and Movement Speed. (This therefore has benefit for oGCDs--especially those such as Steel Peak, which would otherwise fall out of sync with raid buffs, allows for differing rotations, and is optimal over FoF during low-potency GCDs.)
Version 2: Movement Speed.

See the difference?

All these expansions since ARR, and they've never once tried to tie offensive benefits to FoW or FoE themselves, only to either lock GL generation or GL states to it. And we wonder why it fails to compete with the only stance with offensive benefits... for offense?

:: Also, this game hasn't been out for a decade yet, even if counting from 1.x. Heck, since ARR it's been fewer than 7 years.