Increase experience rewards from Fates

I think that Fates should be a better and more reasonable alternative to level your ALT classes then only running dungeons. Personally, I really like Fates and think it's quite nice to be out in the open world for a change.

Dungeons queues can be quite frustrating when you're leveling up a DPS class or when you're playing at odd times, like early mornings, since you may have to wait anything from 30 to 60+ minutes just for one single dungeon.

Currently Fates has quite a low experience reward and it will take ages to get a whole level from them. If you're not lucky enough to have a good party with you of course, in which case you're probably more likely to do dungeons instead.

My suggestion would be that the experience reward from Fates should get increased to, mayhap not equal to dungeons, but still to be close enough to the experience points an hour you’ll get from them to make Fates more worthwhile.

I want something like Shared FATEs for all versions of the game in addition to a small XP increase. More XP, more rewards, more encouragement to engage the open world.

This used to be a thing in 2.0. Running fates in northern Thanalan was all the rage. So while I don’t think it should be on par with roulette’s bonus, xp per hour doing level-appropriate fates should be somewhere around 60-70% equal to running a non-roulette dungeon. Or alternatively about what you’d get out of a non roulette frontline run.

Why? Running fates (and frontline) can be a face roll and doesn’t really teach you how to do the job you are playing, whereas 4 man dungeons typically require the player to make an effort to get through them. I just think more effort should net more reward.

Just my 2 gil tho!

If not XP maybe some kind of loot or currency, maybe reputation. I personally like doing FATEs to kill time but rarely see anyone else doing any unless they have the bonus XP effect on.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

This used to be a thing in 2.0. Running fates in northern Thanalan was all the rage. So while I don’t think it should be on par with roulette’s bonus, xp per hour doing level-appropriate fates should be somewhere around 60-70% equal to running a non-roulette dungeon. Or alternatively about what you’d get out of a non roulette frontline run.

Why? Running fates (and frontline) can be a face roll and doesn’t really teach you how to do the job you are playing, whereas 4 man dungeons typically require the player to make an effort to get through them. I just think more effort should net more reward.

Just my 2 gil tho!

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I'd agree with this but that kind of went out the window with Deep Dungeon. A lot of DPS in particular level in Palace of the Dead. It offers enough to play with actions to see what they do but it doesn't really teach you much of substance of how party play actually is, even with others present. Beast tribes and MSQ roulette, the latter being a pretty substantial source of XP, also gets people more reward for even less effort.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

So while I don’t think it should be on par with roulette’s bonus, xp per hour doing level-appropriate fates should be somewhere around 60-70% equal to running a non-roulette dungeon.

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What I was hoping for is about 80% equal to running a non-roulette dungeon. Not per Fate, but equal to the amount of time spent in each Fate. For example, a Fate normally takes 5-8 minutes (solo) to complete, so that should kinda equal to 80% exp from 5-8 minutes in a dungeon, which is basically having the first boss cleared.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Why? Running fates (and frontline) can be a face roll and doesn’t really teach you how to do the job you are playing, whereas 4 man dungeons typically require the player to make an effort to get through them. I just think more effort should net more reward.

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If you're in a 4 man dungeon you have 3 people that can carry you around. If you are soloing Fates you need to carry your own weight. But sure, you learn more in dungeons then in fates, but I mean, you can boost your character to 70 and then jump straight in to dungeons without any experience what so ever. So other players have to deal with inexperienced high levels anyways. Also you won't get any gear from fates, so you'll need to do dungeons sooner or later anyways.

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Originally Posted by Zwipp

What I was hoping for is about 80% equal to running a non-roulette dungeon. Not per Fate, but equal to the amount of time spent in each Fate. For example, a Fate normally takes 5-8 minutes (solo) to complete, so that should kinda equal to 80% exp from 5-8 minutes in a dungeon, which is basically having the first boss cleared.



If you're in a 4 man dungeon you have 3 people that can carry you around. If you are soloing Fates you need to carry your own weight. But sure, you learn more in dungeons then in fates, but I mean, you can boost your character to 70 and then jump straight in to dungeons without any experience what so ever. So other players have to deal with inexperienced high levels anyways. Also you won't get any gear from fates, so you'll need to do dungeons sooner or later anyways.

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What happens when you get loads of people doing a FATE?
Not only will be it much easier (they do scale with number of people in an instance but that's not very reliable) but it will also go down much quicker.
Do their rewards then have to decrease?
Does it then become detrimental to do them in groups... in an MMO?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

What happens when you get loads of people doing a FATE?

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If the Fate goes down way faster then the estimated time the rewards should be adjusted accordingly. So yes, you would receive less of a reward. Otherwise it would become overpowered.
However, players should not get punished for grouping up, but the opposite. Even if you get less reward per Fate individually, they should still be scaled to favor the players and grant more experience over all for the time spent doing Fates.

In short; You would get less experience per Fate, but more experience over all, for the time spent doing Fates.

Yes please. I miss the days of Coerthas fate grinding. Sure, it was dull, but no more dull than spamming msq roulette/alliance raid that's always LoTA or Sycrus/if levelling roulette easily something under 50 or even under 30, etc. None of those teach you anything and you have to queue forever to do them.
This game desperately needs open world levelling content, because right now there's none viable.

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Originally Posted by Zwipp

If you are soloing Fates you need to carry your own weight. But sure, you learn more in dungeons then in fates, but I mean, you can boost your character to 70 and then jump straight in to dungeons without any experience what so ever. So other players have to deal with inexperienced high levels anyways. Also you won't get any gear from fates, so you'll need to do dungeons sooner or later anyways.

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The problem here is when this was a thing, tons of people were flooding thanalan getting way way way above even roulette xp. Like 40-50 in a matter of hours as opposed to days. There was no soloing fates then and they finished in about a minute a piece...so fast. The result was no one would do dungeons, which SqE wants us to do and/or keep queues down.

Also note the 70 jump is possible for 1 job only...and while technically true you can get carried as a DPS if the other 3 are good..don’t expect to be able to do that as booting for not trying is a thing. Trying to get good/advice=good, just being sloppy and uncaring in dungeon is basically trolling/wasting other people’s time.

Not being nit picky as I agree there should be some kind of increase so it’s at least worth doing while waiting for other content...but there are reasons why it isn’t so high.

I guess what I’d support would be that X minutes doing anything productive, but easy, should yield Y xp...

I would be very supportive if X included all non-roulette raids, fates, frontline and deep dungeon.

But I still think “harder” or “more effort needed” content (eg 4 man dungeons) should yield more xp, if that included solo or low-man fates, I would support that too...but I’m not sure what effect/toxicity would happen when “zomg too many ppl on this fate, you are causing our reward to go down!”

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Originally Posted by kaynide

4 man dungeons typically require the player to make an effort to get through them.

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I'll have some of whatever it is you're smoking.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I'll have some of whatever it is you're smoking.

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So you are saying a dungeon like..say.. Doma is on par with 50+ people doing fates spamming their basic AoE skill?

I think the xp is already in a good spot. I've already maxed all jobs and classes. Any change in favour of fates will negatively effect the balance of every other xp gain.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I'll have some of whatever it is you're smoking.

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Some of them do take an effort to stay awake.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

The problem here is when this was a thing, tons of people were flooding thanalan getting way way way above even roulette xp. Like 40-50 in a matter of hours as opposed to days. There was no soloing fates then and they finished in about a minute a piece...so fast. The result was no one would do dungeons, which SqE wants us to do and/or keep queues down.

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Fates should be based on experience/hour (xp/h). And that xp/h should be based on dungeons xp/h. So no matter how fast you complete Fates, you will never exceed dungeons xp/h.

Example:
Dungeons: 100% xp/h
Fates Regular/Solo: 80% xp/h
Fates Full PFParty: 85% xp/h

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Also note the 70 jump is possible for 1 job only...

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That's not true, I have actually done it on 2 jobs on my alt.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

and while technically true you can get carried as a DPS if the other 3 are good..don’t expect to be able to do that as booting for not trying is a thing. Trying to get good/advice=good, just being sloppy and uncaring in dungeon is basically trolling/wasting other people’s time.

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In the end it all comes down to the player behind the keyboard, if they want to learn, they will learn, if they don't, they won't. But I feel like this is another discussion.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

But I still think “harder” or “more effort needed” content (eg 4 man dungeons) should yield more xp, if that included solo or low-man fates, I would support that too...

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Dungeons doesn't really get hard until 71 so I'm not sure I can agree that they are "more effort needed". At least not before 71. Most tactics and what not in the old instances are mostly harmless. (Rarely causes wipes.)

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Originally Posted by kaynide

but I’m not sure what effect/toxicity would happen when “zomg too many ppl on this fate, you are causing our reward to go down!”

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From what I mentioned above, they won't lose any xp/h, only for the current Fate to keep it balanced.

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Originally Posted by Zwipp

That's not true, I have actually done it on 2 jobs on my alt.

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Apologies on that, I hadn’t realized they removed the limit/restriction. 2 years ago it seems.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Also note the 70 jump is possible for 1 job only...and while technically true you can get carried as a DPS if the other 3 are good..don’t expect to be able to do that as booting for not trying is a thing.

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I guess you mean that a skip book upgrades only 1 class at once, but still - you can boost all of them (except GNB and DNC which are new, and BLU which has diffenerent leveling scale). It just will be expensive (and imo not worth the saved time).

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Apologies on that, I hadn’t realized they removed the limit/restriction.

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There never was one..? At least I don't remember it being a thing tbh.

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As on topic itself, FATEs in at least Stormblood and Shadowbringers actually seem to be more or less worth the time, especially with their EXP Boost buff system. When 5.0 dropped quite a lot of people ended up getting their 80 just on FATEs while they were doing their "60 FATEs for every zone" clears. Maybe it can be adapted for ARR and HW in some way too.

It's true, the Shadowbringers FATEs are really good for EXP, almost comparable to dungeons, and the bicoloured gemstones are useful for getting some hard-to-get materials.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

There never was one..? At least I don't remember it being a thing tbh.

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Was around 4.1 that they removed it, apparently.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Some of them do take an effort to stay awake.

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I think they should just do boss in a circle as dungeon design from now on

I would love this too, there is days where I just don't want to do dungeons and rather do FATES for a change.

Also update them to be like the Shadowbringers Fates too.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

I'll have some of whatever it is you're smoking.

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I consider them practice grounds. While I haven't been a fan of running dungeons of late, I always considered them to be great places to apply fresh knowledge, or to give your rotation(s) a refresher if you're rusty. Dummies don't hit back, and FATE bosses are auto attack>auto attack>Telegraph>auto attack>auto attack>target 'yo berd>auto attack>repeat.

While true that players deliberately have to work against each other to fail dungeon duties, they are made TONS easier when everyone puts in effort to clear them. Every once in a while we do get a dungeon that does require being alert. Unfortunately, when those come around we get a lot of peeps saying, "HOMG, this dungeon sucks. It's too long, and it's ilv sync is lower than the other dungeons! reeeeeee!"

Honestly, they should just increase the xp per level bracket and make each leveling path about equal of each other. No matter how you slice it the actual game for anyone that isn't going through for the first time is at max level (And the road to 70 buff already gets people over leveling what they should be at anyway); and starting new jobs is a chore at best and a painful slog at worst.
Right now, the best way to level is doing your relevant daily dungeons, and then spamming POTD/HOH ad nauseam. Letting a player level effectively in the manner they choose, shouldn't be a sticking point for SQEX; especially when nothing short of savage/etc at end-game requires much thoughtful input

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Originally Posted by Gemina

While true that players deliberately have to work against each other to fail dungeon duties, they are made TONS easier when everyone puts in effort to clear them. Every once in a while we do get a dungeon that does require being alert. Unfortunately, when those come around we get a lot of peeps saying, "HOMG, this dungeon sucks. It's too long, and it's ilv sync is lower than the other dungeons! reeeeeee!"

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People hate those dungeons because the only reason to do the daily roulettes is the rewards for doing the roulette; and when the reward is the same regardless of dungeon, getting a dungeon that is more annoying to do is a net deficit to the time you're putting into the game. So you can't expect people to get giddy at the prospect of spending longer in a dungeon (or deal with a more annoying one) if the carrot that everyone is after will always be the same size.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Was around 4.1 that they removed it, apparently.

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I checked it out of curiousity, and patch notes didn't mention any changes about amount of books you could use. Do you by any chance mean this phrase from official page for level boost system? Because its wording does sound a bit confusing for sure.

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<...>
Instantly level one job of your choosing to level 70, complete with a set of gear to begin your adventure.
<...>

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Though I won't be surprised if there was some sort of a bug or restriction, but in this case that's a bit weird that they never wrote about lifting/fixing it.

Truthfully, I just remember about jump potions from a love letter back in the day with initial discussion about it being a one time thing per character... but I never really followed up with it after it went live. A quick google search about it pulled threads on here that said the restriction was lifted around 4.1 due to poor sales.
I can’t honestly confirm any of it as I never used, and if/when restrictions were lifted (or even ever implemented when the product officially launched), I’m not sure as I kinda glazed over it other than the initial discussion on live letter.

It could very well have been that second bit you mentioned,

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Originally Posted by kaynide

A quick google search about it pulled threads on here that said the restriction was lifted around 4.1 due to poor sales.

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Now that I googled it, I did indeed find some threads about restriction (on reddit mainly), so looks like you remember it right. Though it's confusing that I didn't find a single word about changing the system at lodestone. Maybe my key words for searching were wrong.

P.S. Wait, I found it. They just wrote about it in Mog Station new items release post, not in normal patch notes where I looked for that. My bad.

Yeah would be nice to maybe get more people out doing fates... I really prefer them to spamming dungeons to level, and I'm really sick of running HoH. But fates are kinda not fun when you're the only one doing them and each one seems to take an age and a half to complete alone, especially now that every class I don't already have at 80 is a class that I don't even really enjoy playing...

I guess an honest compromise would just be reorganizing the roulettes/cleaning that whole thing up so there is a “better, but daily menu of things” followed by a lot of other things that give similar rewards. I had said I prefer dungeons giving the most..but its not a hill I’d die on. If the deep dungeons, fates, regular dungeons and even Eureka yielded a similar amount of xp per hour (based on average player skill/time), I wouldn’t fuss about it.

Though they really should get rid of main scenario roulette and jus turn those into a solo instance with NPC companions...

FATE rewards are what they are because they explicitly don't want to route player traffic away from duty instances and increase queue times. You will never see FATEs give a much higher % of a level than they do already.

Yes. If every FATE can't have a bigger XP reward then at the very least they should expand the Bonus XP FATE system throughout the entire game as well as increase the extra XP rewarded when you do a Bonus XP FATE. Maybe even tie it into something like the Armoury Bonus so that on your first job you get the same rates as you do now but on your second/third/etc. job you get X% more.

Another simple limited option could be to add a Daily Challenge to FATEs. Slightly increase the number of FATEs you need for your Weekly Challenge but give a big bonus to doing, say, 5 FATEs a day. That would be a nice way to get DPS classes out into the world while waiting for their Roulettes to pop. Tanks and Healers already have fast access to Roulettes but could just do 5 FATEs in Gridania or something if they wanted the daily bonus as well.

Agreed. I've been leveling DPS jobs using FATES during the long dungeon queue times. The exp earned hardly makes a dent in the exp bar at higher levels (60 and up) and doesn't feel like it's worth the effort.

I'd like to see the Bi Color Gemstones added to all fates as a way to future proof Fates. If you're done leveling everything, then there is no reason to do Fates anymore. At least this way you can still get something out of them besides a small Grand Company seal reward.

Pretty sure SE will be hesitant to add more EXP, the debacle that was SB is still there, when 70 players flew in a perfect line from 1 fate to another ... ignored the maiden and just killed the boss then headed to the next in a perfect line.

when you swapped from like gathering to a combat class (your max hp would be a lot higher after the switch ... and you would be at around 5% hp for a moment) 10 ppl instantly threw heals. I'd never dare say they botted ... they were just simultaneously incredibly narrow sighted to not kill the maiden ... which increases the exp gained of the next fate and at the same time could smell a wounded player and react with the precision and speed of a cheetah during sprint.

So no, please keep stuff out of fates ... or make something that botting harder.

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Originally Posted by Cyreil

I'd like to see the Bi Color Gemstones added to all fates as a way to future proof Fates. If you're done leveling everything, then there is no reason to do Fates anymore. At least this way you can still get something out of them besides a small Grand Company seal reward.

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The problem is that once you get all the major items from the vendors then the FATEs immediately become obsolete again. Even the materia is nearly useless to buy considering the VIIs take 120 to buy, which if you are generous and say you only spend 2 minutes per FATE and don't include travel time and such, you're still looking at 20 minutes to get a VII and 40 for an VIII. Or, you can do a Hunt train and get more clusters in less time or adventurer in need a roulette if you really wanted to.

I absolutely believe the Shared FATE system is a step in the right direction, but it's missing something I can't quite put my finger on.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

So no, please keep stuff out of fates ... or make something that botting harder.

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Bots also run dungeons. They run every single thing. Should we get rid of rewards just because of that?

For my part i continue to do fates even though i have all the rewards/achievements just because i like to chill out in the overworld hitting things XD I just wish there would be a 20 000 fates achievement to know at how many i am at.

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Originally Posted by Malmstrom

The problem is that once you get all the major items from the vendors then the FATEs immediately become obsolete again. Even the materia is nearly useless to buy considering the VIIs take 120 to buy, which if you are generous and say you only spend 2 minutes per FATE and don't include travel time and such, you're still looking at 20 minutes to get a VII and 40 for an VIII. Or, you can do a Hunt train and get more clusters in less time or adventurer in need a roulette if you really wanted to.

I absolutely believe the Shared FATE system is a step in the right direction, but it's missing something I can't quite put my finger on.

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I dont know for your server, but on mine i dont call useless the amount of gils you can earn by resselling orchestrion rolls to people who don't want to do these fates by themselves if you are short on money. Might be different if you are so loaded with money that you dont care about it anymore though.

That being said players stopping to do some kind of content once they have all the rewards is by no way limited to fates. For example you can see that for raids as well, once people have the stuff they want the vast majority dont stay around doing the battles again and again just for fun. That's the problem of being too focused on carrots rewards rather than the content itself (which might be the something you can't quite put your finger on), SE can not constantly generate enough of the former for players to keep forever engaged in the later. And if SE put into place a very long grind to get a few rewards, players will be pissed off by that as well and say that this is a master plan to keep us forcefully subbed.

As for increasing experience, that would lead like already said to df becoming more barred. And it would also need a rework of how fast fates can be facerolled, when all it takes is 2-3 players on the same map to have huge times without any fate appearing anymore we dont need even more players doing them.

The things that bothers me, more than xp, is the spawn pace. You can have nothing and suddenly you have four in the same time. Even if the consequence is the spawn become previsble, I would prefer they manage to give fates some kind of pace that avoid empty map where you can't do anything.