nerfing orbonne was hella unnecessary

the fight was not hard at all

No, but it's outdated content now, that means nerf it to the ground.

I am pretty glad, tho, that I managed to run it a few times while current. It's a very satisfyingly fun fight when you've got it down.

it's totally necessary, it's not enough until we reach crystal tower level difficulty.

And now the scales will tip!



https://i.imgur.com/qWAfSZR.gif

Given how many people cite Orbonne in particular when they talk about why they gear to intentionally trick the roulette into putting them into the tower climb, are you really surprised?

That said I'm rather sad, gear levels and stats would have accomplished this by the next update anyways.

A shame, Orbonne was honestly my favorite 24 man, Cid felt really cool to down with your group specifically because of how punishing mistakes were, but now its just going to be another zergfest with no real effort necessary anymore, not even echo was enough apparently, have to remove the need to do any sort of mechanics properly, its LotA all over again.

Looks like they even nerfed Red Chocobo Savage. Such a shame, that was an unintentionally hilarious and fun part of the questline. So many AoEs, so many deaths, it was beautiful T^T

Let's take a quote from Thunder God Cid's Crush Weapon move:

"Honed is the blade that severs the villain's head. Endless is the path that leads him from hell."

It seems The Thunder God is now on the receiving end of this quote.

On a serious and gameplay note, even after the nerfs to T.G. Cid specified in the patch, players still get knocked out by all of his other moves, especially the move that has this following quote:

"They who dwell aloft have spoken. Let their words echo in your empty soul. Ruination is come!"

This makes me so sad. They should of just put harsher gear requirements to those that did roulettes. Instead they are gratifying the whiners.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Given how many people cite Orbonne in particular when they talk about why they gear to intentionally trick the roulette into putting them into the tower climb, are you really surprised?

That said I'm rather sad, gear levels and stats would have accomplished this by the next update anyways.

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no it wouldnt. orbonne is level 70 so its permanently locked at the max ilvl for level 70 (all alliance raids work this way). you cant queue into orbonne and be stronger than ilvl 400

They’ve stealth nerfed every 24 man so far.
I wonder why they were open about this one.

sadly, SE cares a lot about the idio.... players who cannot press more than one button at a time

They want people to get through the Ivalice raids to do the relic quests starting in 5.25. This has nothing to do with people cheesing the roulette. That's still gonna happen.

It looks like this time, they specifically targeted stuff where if a few players mess up, everyone suffers. This exists in all content, though it feels kind of shitty when Party A has two people who mess up, Party B has two people who mess up, oh darn we all need to start over again because got double dosage of collective punishment. I notice in Shadowbringers, at least in normal content, they are moving more towards still having everyone to compensate for the mistakes of another, but the focus is shifted ever-so-slightly to the individual player. If someone breaks a containment unit on the first boss of The Twinning, everyone has to deal with the add, but only the player who actually broke it gets the vuln stack.

I think it's less about difficulty, but more so the bigger picture of social engineering in an MMORPG. I don't mind having to try again if people mess up, but when you hurl in droves of people wanting to get started on their relic weapons, you'll find a lot of people aggravated being stuck at the same boss for an hour in roulette content just because a small handful of players don't get it. The capacity for players to sabotage the success for others is in all content, from the first dungeon you participate in, and this is part of an MMO game, but the extent varies wildly, and I think it's good if they keep the proportions within tighter bounds. The fight soon to follow, with Ultima and the falling sword angel thingies is a better balance. Still punishing if people mess up, but it asks that fewer players understand what to do, as opposed to asking 75% of all players understand they need to distribute themselves on the pads to stop annihilation, or being randomly selected with a very volatile mechanic that can cause the wipe for everybody else.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

no it wouldnt. orbonne is level 70 so its permanently locked at the max ilvl for level 70 (all alliance raids work this way). you cant queue into orbonne and be stronger than ilvl 400

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Being locked at a level doesn't seem to affect the gear stats however. The tower climb wouldn't be so trivial otherwise - poor Phlegethon can't even get off a second Ancient Flare these days because THAT's how much the gear stats have trivialized him. To say nothing of how Cloud of Darkness has entire mechanics that just aren't seen anymore for the same reason - remember the worms? I haven't seen them since mid-HW and these days she dies almost immediately after the alliance split. Poor Ozma barely even tickles these days. Almost every alliance raid eventually gets trivialized for this reason and the SB raids will be no different unless SE actually does something to change it.

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Originally Posted by Esmoire

It looks like this time, they specifically targeted stuff where if a few players mess up, everyone suffers. This exists in all content, though it feels kind of shitty when Party A has two people who mess up, Party B has two people who mess up, oh darn we all need to start over again because got double dosage of collective punishment. I notice in Shadowbringers, at least in normal content, they are moving more towards still having everyone to compensate for the mistakes of another, but the focus is shifted ever-so-slightly to the individual player. If someone breaks a containment unit on the first boss of The Twinning, everyone has to deal with the add, but only the player who actually broke it gets the vuln stack.

I think it's less about difficulty, but more so the bigger picture of social engineering in an MMORPG. I don't mind having to try again if people mess up, but when you hurl in droves of people wanting to get started on their relic weapons, you'll find a lot of people aggravated being stuck at the same boss for an hour in roulette content just because a small handful of players don't get it. The capacity for players to sabotage the success for others is in all content, from the first dungeon you participate in, and this is part of an MMO game, but the extent varies wildly, and I think it's good if they keep the proportions within tighter bounds. The fight soon to follow, with Ultima and the falling sword angel thingies is a better balance. Still punishing if people mess up, but it asks that fewer players understand what to do, as opposed to asking 75% of all players understand they need to distribute themselves on the pads to stop annihilation.

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what's the point of having a 24 man raid, if only a few are required to actually use their brain? TG Cid fight IS awesome because almost everyone must do something

Old content gets easier later. Not going to lose sleep over it. Tired of still seeing groups struggle to get past this fight anyway.

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

what's the point of having a 24 man raid, if only a few are required to actually use their brain? TG Cid fight IS awesome because almost everyone must do something

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That is a remarkably reductive and hyperbolic statement without deferring anything I had said.

oh they nerfed Orbonne? That was such a blast of 24 man. I love the thunder god fight. many of players sacrificed err died because of mistakes.

No surprise honestly, the only "hard" content this game is allowed to have nowadays is extreme, savage, and ultimate. if it doesn't fall in that, prepare for nerfs.

It's not a hard fight conceptually, but it's just one of those fights where a few bad eggs can cause a wipe very abruptly, so unfortunately it has a reputation of causing vote abandons and probably disputes that I imagine the devs just don't want to deal with so they're nipping it in the bud now before the Shadowbringers relic quest goes live.

After Steps of Faith this sort of thing is hardly surprising.

It's all well and good moaning about it being nerfed, but I'd rather not waste an hour or so of my life wiping, and ultimately abandoning, every time the alliance gets to him.

If it means even a chance of seeing a bit less crystal tower and a bit more Ivalice, then I'm all for it.

I don't get the Orbonne hate outside of it being potentially the longest to clear of all Alliance Raids.
I see WAY more wipes on Dun Scaith whenever I get it. Even when Orbonne was relevant, I've had a few wipes here and there but never got an abandon vote for it. We always made it in the end... Since 5.0, I've had it perhaps 5 or 6 times on Alliance Roulette, and it went even better.

I imagine since completing Ivalice is required for the new Relic weapon they didn't want to gate people from getting it by having to clear something that has a reputation for being "difficult".

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Originally Posted by Samosa

I imagine since completing Ivalice is required for the new Relic weapon they didn't want to gate people from getting it by having to clear something that has a reputation for being "difficult".

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And relic is actually optional content. Which is going to get outdated anyway.

I was making some jokes about this raid yesterday in some thread. They actually are nerfing it huh? What a world. ;)

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Originally Posted by lolicon09

sadly, SE cares a lot about players who cannot press more than one button at a time

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I thought this was an idle game!

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Originally Posted by Enla

Being locked at a level doesn't seem to affect the gear stats however. The tower climb wouldn't be so trivial otherwise - poor Phlegethon can't even get off a second Ancient Flare these days because THAT's how much the gear stats have trivialized him. To say nothing of how Cloud of Darkness has entire mechanics that just aren't seen anymore for the same reason - remember the worms? I haven't seen them since mid-HW and these days she dies almost immediately after the alliance split. Poor Ozma barely even tickles these days. Almost every alliance raid eventually gets trivialized for this reason and the SB raids will be no different unless SE actually does something to change it.

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No, Being synced to lv70 will sync your gear to i405 and it does affect gear stats. The reason old raids are so power creeped has two reasons. One is the buffs your rotation skills have had over the years and the changes to damage calculations. Ozma doesn't hit much because all accessories now have Vitality in them. The other reasons is that most bosses in ARR raids never had good HP tuning to begin with. King Behemoth, Scylla, The Guardian and Cloud of Darkness were especially bad with this.

King Behemoth's tower mechanic has been ignored since the SCoB tier.
Scylla and the Guardian both were easily killable before their significant mechanics go off by FCoB tier.
Cloud of Darkness's worm adds were already an uncommon sight by the time pretty much everyone had i130 gear. The reason for that has more to do with a bad design choice of making her stoneskins very easy to break during the cloud phase. It was easy to push her below the point the worms no longer spawn before HW already.

When SE adjusts action potencies, it always has a detrimental effect on older content, it's inevitable, and it has hit ARR and HW raids especially hard. However, SE has learned and SB raid bosses have quite high HP values and were future proofed enough that Rabanastre didn't just keel over in i400.

Aye I thought it was unnecessary as well

It was needed.


During the time I was lvl-ing all my jobs to 80 I've had over 50 wipes in Orbonne before I lost my count. And I just did alliance roulette once / day.
You only need a handful of people not knowing how to play in there and they will mess up CiD usually not standing in the Duskblade circle and causing a wipe to the whole alliance and moving to the wrong safe spot and not dps-ing the ice-wolves and also causing an alliance wipe.


Now, when you have those people in your group you can just keep on and heal trough it and be done with it.

I don't get why they nerfed Orbonne lmao. And I don't understand people who are saying "lol it was necessary". If you stopped ilvl cheese the 24-man raid roulettes, maybe you would have learned earlier how to handle mechanics on Orbonne. And iirc my last run on Orbonne, we already get the Echo from the start.

So no, it wasn't necessary.

Square enix proceeds to kill the earlier content leaving us dust to lick on.

Instead of scaling it up for lvl 80 and make it so people could play it on max lvl, naaah just make it pointless and useless.
And they are cutting the amount of playable battle content casuals could play as well.

95% of content is only playable for below lvl 80, usually synced and this is making me drop the game all together, end game barely exist. I have more stuff to do in D&D neverwinter online at max lvl, ESO or GW2 than i have in this game.

It should have been nerfed much earlier, the third fight was as hard as savage content because 1 guy could fuck up everything.

Ive seen ppl leave the instance soon as they got Orbonne Monastary it was bad.

I'm honestly pretty upset by it too, Thunder God is my favorite 24 man boss and most of the fun was the difficulty. I'd rather wipe on a fight a few times over facerolling through everything. It was already easier now than it was on release with most people being synced down. I hate that they keep doing this, all of CT has been a total joke since HW, the HW 24 mans have all been way too easy too.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Looks like they even nerfed Red Chocobo Savage. Such a shame, that was an unintentionally hilarious and fun part of the questline. So many AoEs, so many deaths, it was beautiful T^T

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Lol yeah that was hilarious.

I was like... what? Did I just get wiped out by a Choco Meteor?

I was just dumbfounded.

That said...

Honestly yes I wish it wasn't Nerfed. You could STILL play that content as a Viable 80th level Alliance Raid it was that challenging. I am sorry to see it nerfed.

Honestly Nerfing any dungeon/raid/ex is not needed as long as 1 group has cleared it everyone can thus it shouldn't be nerfed period. Honestly the same goes for character abilitys shouldn't try to balance them when most the game is pve it doesn't matter just need to upgread the AI to counter it to create a challage.

Oh good so I can afk in this 24 man now as well.

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Originally Posted by DuskTS

Oh good so I can afk in this 24 man now as well.

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Of course. It's how the game is meant to be played.

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Originally Posted by Sheli54

I don't get why they nerfed Orbonne lmao. And I don't understand people who are saying "lol it was necessary". If you stopped ilvl cheese the 24-man raid roulettes, maybe you would have learned earlier how to handle mechanics on Orbonne. And iirc my last run on Orbonne, we already get the Echo from the start.

So no, it wasn't necessary.

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Don't confuse hard with punishing here.

24-Man content should not have 'one person messes up, everyone suffers' mechanics like those from the Thunder God, as they are VERY frustrating to deal with once this happens.

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Originally Posted by snipski

It should have been nerfed much earlier, the third fight was as hard as savage content because 1 guy could fuck up everything.

Ive seen ppl leave the instance soon as they got Orbonne Monastary it was bad.

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TGC was definitely not as hard as savage content. You could limp your way through that fight since there is no hard enrage but as always, rather than players attempting to learn the fight and improve they drool over their keyboards until SE nerfs it into the ground.

Having a slightly more challenging alliance raid was fun while it lasted I guess.

They need to add a minimum ilevel roulette or something already so I can actually experience content when they nerf everything, it will never be the original but hey at least I'll have to use my brain a little bit.