Method hosting Eden's Verse World First event

Method has announced that they will be hosting a Race to World First event for the next Savage tier, Eden's Verse.

https://twitter.com/Method/status/1228759783081156610

For those who don't know, Method is a prominent WoW guild (and an organization who host such events) who have done this in WoW Mythic races during BFA a few times. This time around it's going to be about Eden's Verse Savage, 5 teams have been picked to be followed on Method's stream and a bunch FFXIV content creators are going to provide commentary for their Savage prog in the race to world first. Se essentially, Method provides a platform for their partnered content creators and teams for this event. The show is going to start at 9AM GMT.

Honestly, I think its good for the game overall. Gives the game more visibility on Twitch and shows that there are interesting raid fights in the game. What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by Baalfrog

Honestly, I think its good for the game overall. Gives the game more visibility on Twitch and shows that there are interesting raid fights in the game. What do you guys think?

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I think this is great.

And as someone who played WoW I'm very curious as to how these people will feel about FFXIV's raiding, especially given that add-ons are rarely used beyond parsers, which is obviously quite the departure from how the WoW raiding scene is. I have no doubt they will do fine, just wondering how it will impact their opinion on the game.

Not my cup of tea.
I don't really like when adventure and cooperative games are more seen as racing and competitive games, but I understand it can talk to some people.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

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Oh yea, definetly. From Method's pov I think its also like a test of sorts to see if there is any other games they could provide such content for and see how people respond as they expand their scopes beyond WoW. But yea! Added visibility is always good.

When it comes to how short the WFs in XIV are compared to WoW, I think its also a plus, since there will be less of just hours when nothing interesting really happens and the casters struggle to keep the audience entertained. Hopefully it works, and becomes a thing in the future too for Ultimates and Savage a like!

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Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Not my cup of tea.
I don't really like when adventure and cooperative games are more seen as racing and competitive games, but I understand it can talk to some people.

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I do totally understand that viewpoint, but if I might add, its basically the only feature of the game that has sort of possibility and the more HC audience likes to race each other. :)

Seems pretty cool. Might attract more players to this game.

They lost the world first for Ny'alotha so they gotta branch out to other platforms.

I'm not sure how well this would work out for FFXIV in the long run. It's not designed to be a competitive MMORPG the way WoW is. Certainly it will be publicity but I'm not sure it's going to attract that many new players who will stick with the game when it doesn't have much in the way of the competitive element that Method covers.

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Originally Posted by Averax

They lost the world first for Ny'alotha so they gotta branch out to other platforms.

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Method stopped being just a raid guild and became a gaming organization years ago. It's why there had been a high profile split of many of their well known core members who wanted to continue raiding as a hobby instead of as professional gamers employed by the Method organization.

They've already got multiple teams competing in multiple games even if WoW is still what they're best known for. Now they're adding FFXIV to that list with the surge in interest the game has seen this expansion.

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Originally Posted by Averax

They lost the world first for Ny'alotha so they gotta branch out to other platforms.

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They did the whole Path of Exile way before Nyalotha. Also there was that Molten core thing. But yea, Method the business venture is probably trying different avenues here indeed, and you know, do business.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Method stopped being just a raid guild and became a gaming organization years ago. It's why there had been a high profile split of many of their well known core members who wanted to continue raiding as a hobby instead of as professional gamers employed by the Method organization.

They've already got multiple teams competing in multiple games even if WoW is still what they're best known for. Now they're adding FFXIV to that list with the surge in interest the game has seen this expansion.

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WoW is basically the same as 14 here it just has way more players in it. WoW world first race is basically the same as 14s, just much much bigger.

They lost the World First N'Zoth race, so...good luck to them I guess. I don't much care for the esport scene in MMORPGs. Too many companies as of late are focusing more on the $$$$$ and less about the quality. These sort of things do not help.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

They lost the World First N'Zoth race, so...good luck to them I guess. I don't much care for the esport scene in MMORPGs. Too many companies as of late are focusing more on the $$$$$ and less about the quality. These sort of things do not help.

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Because publicity for a game is bad somehow? Also Method itself is not running, just partnering with some teams from 14.

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Originally Posted by Baalfrog

Because publicity for a game is bad somehow?

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Publicity isn't a bad thing. Never mentioned that in my post. I just see what the esport scene has done to WoW and I don't want to see it become a major factor here. It isn't solely responsible for the game's downfall but I do feel that is it at least a small factor.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Publicity isn't a bad thing. Never mentioned that in my post.

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Thats what it essentially does though. Its an event hosted by a company sure, they are just doing their business. It's basically the same as watching the whole Ultimate prog of team x, but instead with dedicated hosts and a strong brand providing their platform for it, increasing visibility. Overall I don't see anything bad in it.

Method has switched to FFXIV? Or do they just have a branch here?

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

Method has switched to FFXIV? Or do they just have a branch here?

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Just a branch. I'll say again though, they are not themselves raiding, instead partnering with 14s native teams and casters and just providing their platform for the event.

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Originally Posted by Baalfrog

Because publicity for a game is bad somehow? Also Method itself is not running, just partnering with some teams from 14.

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The world first mentality brings with it an elitist toxicity any game can do with out. FF14 has always suffered from this but this stuff can only add to it.

The 'hardcore' are the most visible but the vast majority - the people who pay the bills - are the 'casual' players who dont raid savage or ultimate, or whatever 'difficulty' they bring out next.

Wildstar launched with the hardcore mindset and was dealt a critical blow at launch that it (sadly) never recovered from. 'Casuals' are the bread and butter. Put them off and your game dies.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

The world first mentality brings with it an elitist toxicity any game can do with out. FF14 has always suffered from this but this stuff can only add to it.

The 'hardcore' are the most visible but the vast majority - the people who pay the bills - are the 'casual' players who dont raid savage or ultimate, or whatever 'difficulty' they bring out next.

Wildstar launched with the hardcore mindset and was dealt a critical blow at launch that it (sadly) never recovered from. 'Casuals' are the bread and butter. Put them off and your game dies.

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Wait a minute, you seriously claim Savage is for the "hardcore"? I raid casually, with casuals, all the time and we all got E4S clear weeks ago. And I am talking 2-4hrs per week playtime casuals, thats a LOT less than most "casuals" spend in their houses alone.

By that standard, I assume you consider EX trials hardcore content too?

Wow im amazed. I'm looking forward for this

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

The world first mentality brings with it an elitist toxicity any game can do with out. FF14 has always suffered from this but this stuff can only add to it.

The 'hardcore' are the most visible but the vast majority - the people who pay the bills - are the 'casual' players who dont raid savage or ultimate, or whatever 'difficulty' they bring out next.

Wildstar launched with the hardcore mindset and was dealt a critical blow at launch that it (sadly) never recovered from. 'Casuals' are the bread and butter. Put them off and your game dies.

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You're wrong on this one it's an event to bolster the game not hinder it there's no elitist toxicity whatsoever just people that love a certain aspect of the game which is world first races which attracts a lot of people Mythic Nya'lotha went for almost 9 days 14s race will be much shorter but it's still giving it a preview for those who wanna see what endgame raiding is like.

And no one is above each other whether you're hardcore or casual, there's people who have 2-3 accounts with max retainers or people who have 20 houses, people who are collectors, people who PvP, please don't generalize people into said categories when everyone plays this game for many different reasons, myself included.

Wildstar also failed because no one wanted to do 40 man raids because getting 40 people to do raids is a pain in the tail and the populace realized that with the many bugs and boring encounters wasn't because of "elitists" it tried to cater to people who loved mass raids of classic WoW and older games.

itll be good, and a way for the streamers on those teams to get some exposure.

If you arent a part of the "I want to watch these people stream" club, its actually hard to find where to watch them stream without sifting through now streaming results on twitch and hoping theyre going.

More publicity isnt going to be a bad thing, but itll be a significantly bigger EU bump than NA.


I do kinda wish we had these types of things back EQ and the early days of WoW (we used IRC timestamps to see who cleared things first, ha), but those were sigificantly different times.

As I mentioned in another thread, I just hope the added publicity won't be on the negative side of FFXIV's community. Or if it does, hopefully it will have a positive result.

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Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Not my cup of tea.
I don't really like when adventure and cooperative games are more seen as racing and competitive games, but I understand it can talk to some people.

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This right here. I don't care for it either, I'm not a fan when it turns a MMO into something of speed kill, world first etc. It's how one of my favorite classes got destroyed because of the mentality it brought to the devs. I"ll pass.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

This right here. I don't care for it either, I'm not a fan when it turns a MMO into something of speed kill, world first etc. It's how one of my favorite classes got destroyed because of the mentality it brought to the devs. I"ll pass.

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I don’t understand, what mentality made the devs destroy your favorite class?

Even if more visibility is a good thing, i always find hazardous to take Twitch numbers as a clue of how well a game is doing when a lot of viewers are here to look at their entertainer streamer of choice, and not the game itself. I once did see one of them switch temporarily to a random game because their main one was not working anymore, that doesn't mean that the random game did become as successful as Fortnite even though the viewers count was here. How many people will watch the Method stream only because of the Method name, but not begin to playing FF14 anyway ?

There must also be on Twitch a lot of people who take a look at games they dont have just because they are curious about them, but not to the point of buying and playing them. That is my case, i have looked way more at some games streams i don't own than FF14 ones. If i want to see some FF14, i just launch the game myself.

Not that i am this interested at a "who will be the first to be able to sell new savage runs in pf in exchange for big bucks" race anyway XD

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Wait a minute, you seriously claim Savage is for the "hardcore"? I raid casually, with casuals, all the time and we all got E4S clear weeks ago. And I am talking 2-4hrs per week playtime casuals, thats a LOT less than most "casuals" spend in their houses alone.

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"casual" is a word whose meaning can change tremendously depending on who is using it, like softcore, midcore and harcore statics. For me it is not only someone who don't play a lot, but also someone who don't have a lot of skill and can't clear harder content. So i wouldn't call you a casual if you can clear E4S.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I don’t understand, what mentality made the devs destroy your favorite class?

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Having all AST's cards turned into minor balance cards. The community loved AST and how it had utility. This whole Balance or bust is the kind of mentality it brought and I don't want to see more of it here.

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Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

Having all AST's cards turned into minor balance cards. The community loved AST and how it had utility. This whole Balance or bust is the kind of mentality it brought and I don't want to see more of it here.

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RIP AST Cards. I do miss the Crit buff.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Wait a minute, you seriously claim Savage is for the "hardcore"? I raid casually, with casuals, all the time and we all got E4S clear weeks ago. And I am talking 2-4hrs per week playtime casuals, thats a LOT less than most "casuals" spend in their houses alone.

By that standard, I assume you consider EX trials hardcore content too?

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Keep in mind. Even casual raiding in savage is still something some, more vocal and toxic members of the community, consider to be "beyond their scope of concern and care." Even raiding savage at all puts you above the majority of the playerbase that doesn't raid.

Hopefully Method will do well. Since every FFXIV encounter is a super scripted Queen's Court or Hive Mind and there's hardly any variation from this formula I don't think Method are directly schocked by the high entry floor of FFXIV which has contributed to the legend of this game being incredibly difficult and theoretically advanced. I also don't think tiered stat weights and set in stone "Playmobil/building with DUPLO" rotations would be a problem to people used to simming synergetic stat weights 100 times a day and optimizing dynamic active/passive procc rotations.

The lack of addons isn't a problem in a game with so little RnG and so few variables as FFXIV. Everything in this game can be memorized and planned beforehand. It would be cool if Method take this seriously and not just see it as something for the lulz. Up until this point FFXIV has only had pseudo elitism so if someone from outside bring some fresh blood and real elitism in it would be a wake up call to the sacred birthright aristocracy of the FFXIV raid scene.

Hopefully Method taking an interest in FFXIV will also reach Tokyo and influence future raid design and what direction PvE could take in FFXIV. The game has a lot of potential but ShB has imo been a step back compared to SB even in terms of PvE design.

I also think it's a good opportunity to end the unofficial trench war between FFXIV and WoW with at least one side making a positive gesture and showing interest in the other game. I don't think you would see any FFXIV "elite" doing a world first event for WoW on any content but at least some WoW players are showing some will to break down the barriers and taboos and I commend them for it. Just like they are an inspiration to the WoW community I hope they will also be to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Sasarayu

Hopefully Method will do well.

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I'm sure they'll do well enough organising the event. Perhaps the five teams that they've picked to follow might even convince them to give it a try themselves.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

I'm sure they'll do well enough organising the event. Perhaps the five teams that they've picked to follow might even convince them to give it a try themselves.

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Don't forget that if you replace two red apples with one green apple it has 10 higher Potency© aligned with trick attack and snapshotted on the 3rd GCD. *The Arrival of the Queen of Sheba from Händel's Solomon starts playing*

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

"casual" is a word whose meaning can change tremendously depending on who is using it, like softcore, midcore and harcore statics. For me it is not only someone who don't play a lot, but also someone who don't have a lot of skill and can't clear harder content. So i wouldn't call you a casual if you can clear E4S.

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For me whether someone is casual, hardcore or anything in between is more about attitude than time spent in the game. Time spent in the game is obviously also a contributing factor as to why you might call a person one thing or another, but attitude towards the content they're doing is, in my opinion, the real thing that separates these vary degrees of approach to the game. It can also change depending on the content. Someone might be a hardcore omnicrafter, but may only be a casual raider at most. Very often one label isn't enough to accurately categorise players. People don't always fit into neat little boxes.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Wait a minute, you seriously claim Savage is for the "hardcore"? I raid casually, with casuals, all the time and we all got E4S clear weeks ago. And I am talking 2-4hrs per week playtime casuals, thats a LOT less than most "casuals" spend in their houses alone.

By that standard, I assume you consider EX trials hardcore content too?

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so basically you spend all your gametime raiding but spend a little time playing the game, not sure what the title for that would be, casual hardcore?

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I don’t understand, what mentality made the devs destroy your favorite class?

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ninja was ruined for me because raiders were angry that ninja spells clipped with the physical attacks, now it's boring for me and I am not using it anymore.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

so basically you spend all your gametime raiding but spend a little time playing the game, not sure what the title for that would be, casual hardcore?

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2 to 4 hours a week is anything but hardcore. Not sure where the assumption of all time playing goes into raiding in the case you are making here...

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Originally Posted by Sasarayu

The lack of addons isn't a problem in a game with so little RnG and so few variables as FFXIV. Everything in this game can be memorized and planned beforehand. It would be cool if Method take this seriously and not just see it as something for the lulz. Up until this point FFXIV has only had pseudo elitism so if someone from outside bring some fresh blood and real elitism in it would be a wake up call to the sacred birthright aristocracy of the FFXIV raid scene.

Hopefully Method taking an interest in FFXIV will also reach Tokyo and influence future raid design and what direction PvE could take in FFXIV. The game has a lot of potential but ShB has imo been a step back compared to SB even in terms of PvE design.

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Method doesn't do anything for the Lulz as they are now a (profit driven) company and it is very unlikely they decided to start this event without sponsorship.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Method doesn't do anything for the Lulz as they are now a (profit driven) company and it is very unlikely they decided to start this event without sponsorship.

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Its almost like the main goal of a business enterprise is to make money.

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Originally Posted by Baalfrog

Its almost like the main goal of a business enterprise is to make money.

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Yes it is, I was merely replying to someone who believed method still played for free.

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Originally Posted by Baalfrog

2 to 4 hours a week is anything but hardcore. Not sure where the assumption of all time playing goes into raiding in the case you are making here...

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There's more than one meaning for casual/hardcore. Some people seem to think it has to do with time played, but that's largely a worthless metric. Calling someone who plays 100 hours a week a "hardcore" player isn't a useful description because it doesn't actually tell you anything about that player. They could be raiding the whole time or doing guildhests.

When most people talk about casual or hardcore they mean the difficulty of the content they engage with. Someone who raidlogs is hardcore, someone who doesn't raid is casual. That is at least a description of a type of player.