[Feedback][PLD] Divine Veil QoL.

Hello.

Divine Veil shouldn't need any kind of heal to trigger the Party Shield.

It should work just like Shake it Off.

This change would be good for PLD, gameplay wise.

Thank you very much.

Sure, but why though? I’m fine with Divine Veil being heal activated, there aren’t many situations where any party members won’t be able to get off a heal to activate it unless something has gone horribly wrong.
But I wouldn’t mind if it was turned into a oGCD shield like Devine Benison instead, make it easier to proc, so I can go either way.

What I would prefer for a change to Divine Veil is that if it effected the PLD, out of everyone in the party tanks are the most likely to need a shield due to them taking the brunt of the damage, so it seems silly to not have the PLD who casted it denied his own shield.

Actually that divine veil is triggered by heals is fine, if anything make the sound of when we press it more distintive or the icon in the buff bar more flashy for the healers to notice, because is true that in quite a bunch of cases the healers may not notice it.

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Originally Posted by E4EO

Sure, but why though? I’m fine with Divine Veil being heal activated, there aren’t many situations where any party members won’t be able to get off a heal to activate it unless something has gone horribly wrong.
But I wouldn’t mind if it was turned into a oGCD shield like Devine Benison instead, make it easier to proc, so I can go either way.

What I would prefer for a change to Divine Veil is that if it effected the PLD, out of everyone in the party tanks are the most likely to need a shield due to them taking the brunt of the damage, so it seems silly to not have the PLD who casted it denied his own shield.

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Because you either sacrifice a GCD (the worse option) or leave it in your healer's hands. Though in most cases if you know the fight, you can put it up in advance and the healer will hit it without even meaning to do it. But that takes fight knowledge and skill in the form of timing, which quite a lot of people don't have.

theres also the issue that proccing divine veil has to be with healing Spells. a lot of healers (myself included) just use ogcds for almost everything and veil ends up never proccing

i think veil is fine as it is though. you can have a whole minute between pressing the button and actually consuming the shield. staggering your heal so the shield comes at a better timing is a small thing that separates veil from the other shields, allowing you to have 2 effective uses of veil in a shorter time than the other tank shields

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Originally Posted by Seku

Because you either sacrifice a GCD (the worse option) or leave it in your healer's hands. Though in most cases if you know the fight, you can put it up in advance and the healer will hit it without even meaning to do it. But that takes fight knowledge and skill in the form of timing, which quite a lot of people don't have.

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You usually will have veil proc'd if it is needed by the healers. There is nothing wrong with requiring a minor degree of fight knowledge to make use of skills. Look at AST for example, you don't always throw your star down as it comes off cooldown, if you know there is big AoE damage coming up soon, and everyone is topped, you can delay it so it will top them up again after, saving GCD heals.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

theres also the issue that proccing divine veil has to be with healing Spells. a lot of healers (myself included) just use ogcds for almost everything and veil ends up never proccing

i think veil is fine as it is though. you can have a whole minute between pressing the button and actually consuming the shield. staggering your heal so the shield comes at a better timing is a small thing that separates veil from the other shields, allowing you to have 2 effective uses of veil in a shorter time than the other tank shields

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This is one of the biggest benefits of Veil if you optimise it's usage properly and work around healers oGCDs, granted it is proper min maxing Veil's usage.

My only Issue with Veil is that, paladin does not benefit from the shield once proc'd which I think should be changed, mostly because the other three tanks benefit from their own, while paladin has an extra step before the shield is activated, I think that is enough reason for paladin to benefit from it's own AoE shield.

best of both worlds
keep the heal trigger but even if no heal the shield will just show up at the end of the 30s

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Originally Posted by Duskane

best of both worlds
keep the heal trigger but even if no heal the shield will just show up at the end of the 30s

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Would be an inprovement with no downsides indeed.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

Hello.

Divine Veil shouldn't need any kind of heal to trigger the Party Shield.

It should work just like Shake it Off.

This change would be good for PLD, gameplay wise.

Thank you very much.

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I would like Divine Veil to be GCD group heal shield as that would work better both gameplay and lore wise.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I would like Divine Veil to be GCD group heal shield as that would work better both gameplay and lore wise.

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Only if all the other tanks AoE shields cost a GCD otherwise no thank you.

I don't neccisarily 'mind' the way it is now but I don't see much of an upside to it requiring a heal to proc it. Maybe there are other examples but I can't think of anything off the top of my head in the game that requires that sort of setup for a utility spell. And I don't see the downside to just letting paladins pop the shield when they want to.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Only if all the other tanks AoE shields cost a GCD otherwise no thank you.

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Fine, on demand oGCD group heal shield that costs MP on 15 second CD.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Fine, on demand oGCD group heal shield that costs MP on 15 second CD.

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Erm no, why should paladins AoE shield have to have a negative drawback while no other tank does. Plaladin already doesn't benefit from it in it's current state, while all other tanks DO benefit from their AoE mitigation, and paladin's other utility all have a cost attached to it, including channeling Passage of Arms, so no, your suggestions are absolutely awful.

The two horrendous suggestions you put forward would only serve to makes paladin clunky and interferes with the flow of the job.

I get it you are not happy DRK isn't to your liking, but please stop trying to drag paladin down to make yourself feel better.

Divine Veil is mostly fine as it is, minor QoL change where it gains an Excog effect at the end of the intial duration, as suggested already, and or the shield applies to the paladin who used the ability should benefit from the shield.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Erm no, why should paladins AoE shield have to have a negative drawback while no other tank does.

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Because PLD already has 2 raidwide mitigation abilities while the other three just have one ability. PLD's definitely need drawbacks, and no buffs.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Because PLD already has 2 raidwide mitigation abilities while the other three just have one ability. PLD's definitely need drawbacks, and no buffs.

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yea one which requires a middle man to proc and the other that requires positioning and channeling if needed for prolonged usage such as J-waves at the end of P3 of TEA. Sorry mate but your inccorect about drawback and buffs, but then again you tend to bash on paladin at every turn, so your point has less merit.

Paladin has to generate gauge to make use of half of its utility compared to the other tank that have it right out the gate. WAR, DRK and GNB all have an extra personal cooldown compared to paladin, in exchange for Passage of Arms, so it balances itself out. In terms of self sustain, paladin has to sacrifice dps to make use of it, compared to the other three that do it passively, all the while they benefit from their own AoE mitigation, this is the only thing that isn't balanced.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

yea one which requires a middle man to proc and the other that requires positioning and channeling if needed for prolonged usage such as J-waves at the end of P3 of TEA. Sorry mate but your inccorect about drawback and buffs, but then again you tend to bash on paladin at every turn, so your point has less merit.

Paladin has to generate gauge to make use of half of its utility compared to the other tank that have it right out the gate. WAR, DRK and GNB all have an extra personal cooldown compared to paladin, in exchange for Passage of Arms, so it balances itself out. In terms of self sustain, paladin has to sacrifice dps to make use of it, compared to the other three that do it passively, all the while they benefit from their own AoE mitigation, this is the only thing that isn't balanced.

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Ask for TBN to have no MP cost, and people will argue that it will be too powerful because you have a chance of having a DPS gain on the shield breaking.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Ask for TBN to have no MP cost, and people will argue that it will be too powerful because you have a chance of having a DPS gain on the shield breaking.

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Your argument has no weight here nor do I see how it has any relevance here, when Divine Veil is nowhere near as frequent or powerful.

But okay I'll tell you what, how about, they remove the 10% magic damage reduction from Dark Passenger / Heart of Light, and the hp shield from Shake it Off applying to their respective tank, seems fair right and more balanced, since clearly it's too broken for paladin to benefit from Divine Veil, then clearly it's even more broken for the other three to benefit from their AoE mitigation, when they have more personal cooldowns than paladin.

TBN has its flaws but so does every other tank utility besides heart of Stone and Shake it off there's no need to bring others down especially paladin because of TBN

Also really no point in bringing up Drk in unrelated threads all the time.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Your argument has no weight here nor do I see how it has any relevance here, when Divine Veil is nowhere near as frequent or powerful.

But okay I'll tell you what, how about, they remove the 10% magic damage reduction from Dark Passenger / Heart of Light, and the hp shield from Shake it Off applying to their respective tank, seems fair right and more balanced, since clearly it's too broken for paladin to benefit from Divine Veil, then clearly it's even more broken for the other three to benefit from their AoE mitigation, when they have more personal cooldowns than paladin.

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1) It's Dark Missionary, not Dark Passenger. I know this because the devs deleted Dark Passenger from the game for no real reason out side of pissing off the the playerbase that mained DRK

2) I was referring to how people like to complain about how their favorite job/class sucks to play because another job/class does it better and either ask for the other job/class to get nerfed, or ask for similar changes to their class so they can be on par with the other job/class that they are competing with (the most you see are potency adjustments and not actual job/class adjustments). For example a lot of people hate DRK because it plays too much like a WAR but worse but love GNB because it has more than 1 single target combo but even more people are too afraid to ask for more combos like GNB, or if they did ask for more combos they are ignored because apparently making a tank feel like it has an actual DPS rotation is too hard for most people.

3) Dark Missionary and Heart of Light being magic damage only is as about as dumb as removing DRK mitigation for 2 expansions straight, and WAR also has to eat several cooldowns to make Shake It Off to be more powerful and is as infrequent as as current Divine Veil, and I also would like Passage of Arms to be an raid wide AoE heal shield+Regen+group damage reduction to justify it's long cooldown.

4) It boils down to people who either parse or don't parse, and I'm in the camp that doesn't parse, but not having in game parser for home console players along with no in-game voice chat, creates more toxicity than actually having those in the game and having people who want to improve their clear times and DPS score or whatever you want to call it can actually clean up that toxicity(along with giving the fans what they want in the game but none of those things aren't going to happen anytime soon).

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Originally Posted by PeacefulEdge

Would be an inprovement with no downsides indeed.

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There is a very real downside, even if not a major one. As is, you can shave up to nearly 30 seconds off the time between activations if there's no healing required over the first, say, 29 seconds of the buff.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

But okay I'll tell you what, how about, they remove the 10% magic damage reduction from Dark Passenger / Heart of Light, and the hp shield from Shake it Off applying to their respective tank, seems fair right and more balanced, since clearly it's too broken for paladin to benefit from Divine Veil, then clearly it's even more broken for the other three to benefit from their AoE mitigation, when they have more personal cooldowns than paladin.

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Nah, sounds like a bad idea since PLD's other raidwide mitigation skill does let the PLD take less damage. Just use Passage of Arms to guarantee a block, which works on both physical and magical damage and is 20% personally compared to DRK's/GNB's 15%.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

There is a very real downside, even if not a major one. As is, you can shave up to nearly 30 seconds off the time between activations if there's no healing required over the first, say, 29 seconds of the buff.

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I was talking about this proposal:

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Originally Posted by Duskane

best of both worlds
keep the heal trigger but even if no heal the shield will just show up at the end of the 30s

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Originally Posted by PeacefulEdge

I was talking about this proposal:

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Yep. Not sure how I missed that. My bad; you are perfectly correct.

Personally, I'd most like to see something that makes the initial phase feel like it has more reason to be there, such enhancing incoming heals and then duplicating a portion of that healing as AoE or at least giving the PLD control over the release via a dynamic button, whereby the PLD is initially shielded and then on reuse of the skill or upon the shield's break it's applied to everyone else. Idk, just something that makes it feel like it belongs rather than just an odd gimmick.

But, yeah, auto-deploy would get rid of its only rare practical drawback.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

1) It's Dark Missionary, not Dark Passenger. I know this because the devs deleted Dark Passenger from the game for no real reason out side of pissing off the the playerbase that mained DRK

2) I was referring to how people like to complain about how their favorite job/class sucks to play because another job/class does it better and either ask for the other job/class to get nerfed, or ask for similar changes to their class so they can be on par with the other job/class that they are competing with (the most you see are potency adjustments and not actual job/class adjustments). For example a lot of people hate DRK because it plays too much like a WAR but worse but love GNB because it has more than 1 single target combo but even more people are too afraid to ask for more combos like GNB, or if they did ask for more combos they are ignored because apparently making a tank feel like it has an actual DPS rotation is too hard for most people.

3) Dark Missionary and Heart of Light being magic damage only is as about as dumb as removing DRK mitigation for 2 expansions straight, and WAR also has to eat several cooldowns to make Shake It Off to be more powerful and is as infrequent as as current Divine Veil, and I also would like Passage of Arms to be an raid wide AoE heal shield+Regen+group damage reduction to justify it's long cooldown.

4) It boils down to people who either parse or don't parse, and I'm in the camp that doesn't parse, but not having in game parser for home console players along with no in-game voice chat, creates more toxicity than actually having those in the game and having people who want to improve their clear times and DPS score or whatever you want to call it can actually clean up that toxicity(along with giving the fans what they want in the game but none of those things aren't going to happen anytime soon).

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1) Simple mix up of names.

2) I mean there was no complaints about Paladin sucking to play, this thread was simply a QoL request for Divine Veil. Paladin's are allowed those as well.

3) There is rarely physical AoE damage compared to magical AoE damage, so kinda makes sense. Shake it Off is only 2% behind Paladin's Veil (when applied to self, ofc for the party it is based on their individual health values) which is negligible, and you can easily dump RI to boost SiO. I rather they not touch Passage of Arms, 2 minutes is plenty long a cooldown for what it does currently.

4) I can't see how parsing or in game voice chat is now involved in this when, we're literally talking about Tank AoE mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Nah, sounds like a bad idea since PLD's other raidwide mitigation skill does let the PLD take less damage. Just use Passage of Arms to guarantee a block, which works on both physical and magical damage and is 20% personally compared to DRK's/GNB's 15%.

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Except if you need to Passage of Arms to block, it means you need to stop using GCDs and you're forced to stop auto attacking, thus generating less gauge. The other three tanks do not require this, and that 5% is negligible at best to the point that eiher paladin gains the shield from Divine veil or they remove the effects from the other three will balance out the mitigation tools more.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Yep. Not sure how I missed that. My bad; you are perfectly correct.

Personally, I'd most like to see something that makes the initial phase feel like it has more reason to be there, such enhancing incoming heals and then duplicating a portion of that healing as AoE or at least giving the PLD control over the release via a dynamic button, whereby the PLD is initially shielded and then on reuse of the skill or upon the shield's break it's applied to everyone else. Idk, just something that makes it feel like it belongs rather than just an odd gimmick.

But, yeah, auto-deploy would get rid of its only rare practical drawback.

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Could work like an earthly star, when we press it the first time it applies the buff and when we receive a heal we can push the icon again to unleash the shield, but the more time we hold it the more powerful the shield Will be until the timer runs out.

This post wasn't created to argue about what tank is better or what tank need buffs etc etc...IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT.

Its about Divine Veil from a gameplay point of view. I have been playing PLD for like 4 years and since Healers try to avoid Spells (GCDs) and they make use of Abilities (oGCDs), Divine Veil is triggered ~80% (4 out 5).

If you play PLD and you have any kind of suggestion/opinion to share about DIVINE VEIL, you're welcome. If you want to talk about Tank Balance, its fine, but this is NOT the post.