Do you think the game would appeal more if the game mechanics and rules of FFXI were implemented?
Game changed to FFXI style?
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03-22-2011, 10:07 AMAtlantisGame changed to FFXI style?
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03-22-2011, 10:10 AMAkumu
I'm absolutely positive this game would have been a complete fail with no hope of a turn around. FFXI best times as a MMO was pre-WoW. After that its design showed to have a bunch of holes in it. Which is why the most people FFXI had was 500,000 i think?
FFXIV would have probably been seen in a different light if they didn't rush release(and listened to the players). FFXIV also has a lot more potential than FFXI ever had based off its current design alone. Also, it can turnaround this rushed disaster while a FFXI-2(which to me means a copy/paste with upgraded graphics) could not have done. -
03-22-2011, 10:15 AMAtlantis
Well I would think the FFXI structure implemented with this would make this game more stable at least. And FFXI will never have a population of WOW because WOW is for the people who want everything handed to them and don't want any challenge <3. And thats what people want I guess is no challenge <3.
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03-22-2011, 10:21 AMAkumuThis game could actually compete with WoW population if Yoshi-P fixes it right. One of FFXI main flaws is that it didn't accept casuals in anyway. Which is why now the game is so watered down and considered "broken." If you don't have Hardcore and Casuals in a MMO than its design will crumble sooner or later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
If you look at GW2 and ArcheAge alone you can see how they aren't trying to be a WoW clone but something much more which is why they have a huge chance at success. Unlike Rift which just copied everything(if not almost) and put a new skin over it. -
03-22-2011, 10:22 AMKam
FFXI was a neiche MMO, no, I don't belive some of the "worse" mechanics from it should be added. (Such as random-horribly-low drop rates. For example; 0/30 Eastern Shadow anyone?)
The basics.. like the party system.. the basic commands.. /sea and such.. hell yes...:D
I'm sort of split on weather we need an Auction house though...
BUT what is certain - it could definitely do with some polishing from XI's 10years of expeirence - and THAT would truely help it. -
03-22-2011, 10:27 AMAkumuYea thats one of my main problems when I started playing XIV. I didn't want a FFXI-2 by no means but the great aspects of it they completely threw away and started over a new slate. They should have salvaged the great parts and threw away the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kam
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03-22-2011, 10:27 AMSpuffinTrue that my frined. FF11 was HARD CORE PVE ment for hard core players. It didnt have the fancy UI like wow because it was released before WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
If you want to obtain an epic peice of armor in FF11 you have to EARN it. Hence Sky/Sea those were real challenges. But I can guarantee you that no PvE MMO had a boss unlike Pandemonium Warden.
FF11 was a PvE game and the developers of FF11 made the game tough for that reason. The moment you obtained that piece of gear in FF11 it felt so rewarding and made you just that more powerful.
IE: FF11 news Quote
Drawn out boss battles in massively multiplayer games are nothing new, but Final Fantasy XI’s Pandemonium Warden takes the concept to a ridiculous extreme: A recent (unsuccessful) attempt on the Warden’s life raged for 18 hours.
FFXI Link Shell (think: guild or clan) BeyondTheLimitation attempted the boss a few days ago, but after 18 real-world hours of combat, were forced to admit defeat when members of the LS began "passing out and getting physically ill."
"None of us doubt that PW can be killed. We just call into question exactly what the development team thinks is reasonable from human beings," wrote BeyondTheLimitation member Sylphet, clearly baffled by the developer’s choice to add such a ridiculously lengthy encounter to the game — particularly as it flies in the face of the game’s warning screens urging players to take frequent breaks from play.
Granted they did "gimp" the boss after this encounter and the first defeat of PW only took an hour and a half.
I would like to see FF14 implement tough cinerios like that there. Even basic party play/exp grind in 11 was more of a challenge that 14. People keep saying they they want more challenges in MMOs and they dont want things to be easy. FF11 was a perfect example of that. WoW and every other game out there and in development now is copy pasting WoWs prime example of easy to obtain content. -
03-22-2011, 10:28 AMAtlantis
Yeah screw the drop rates I hate that crap. The solid jobs loved that gave every job uniqueness, and you felt like you were playing a solid job. The armor was lvl specific so you had a sense of understanding of armor and stats because of that. There is just a lot I would to be implemented from FFXI
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03-22-2011, 10:36 AMChory
I would definitely COPY/PASTE targeting system, static battle stance (for easier targeting), gear equipping (jumping to item list with triangle button [PS3 gamepad] instead of directional buttons, all weapon/armor slots put into one square/rectangle for easier navigation), text chat filtering/usability (scrolling log with gamepad [triangle button again]), party search, macros (<st> <stpc> <stnpc> tags) and auto-attack. Get rid of emote list gamepad button (its not only less useful than log scrolling but its totally useless) and stamina bar (TP cost + cooldown time is enough and autoattack makes BR usable).
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03-22-2011, 10:36 AMArcell
No, please go away.
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03-22-2011, 10:45 AMDarkRain
PW..... this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeX5PTz_1h0
MAN i wanted to fight him so BAD! My sam that gear awesome!
And yes it (was ) the hardest fight in ant MMO that and maybe this guy too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxY9P...eature=related
This was a hell of a fight also -
03-22-2011, 10:49 AMRentahamsterNot necessarily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
Incorporate just the good ideas and concepts only. Leave the rest behind. -
03-22-2011, 10:56 AMXatsh
A few comments to this Topic
1) They need to copy FFXI's difficulty level, they need to make it casual in terms of time commitments to do events, but the last thing this game need to be is a game catered to those who suck at gaming.
2) I think copying the battle system would be a bad idea in general... 99% of the mmo gamers now days are ADHD or very close to it so the battle speed alone would make people quit.
3) FFXI was not a nitch mmo it was pretty mainstream it was the standard hardcore oldschool mmo in the style of EQ, it was one of the largest mmos in the world preWoW, only after WoW did it get the Niche Title. WoW brought alot of ppl who hate mmos into the mmo genre, which is why the divide is here on this forum between oldschool and WoW era mmoers.
4) PW never took more then 2hrs to kill, it is just people kept trying to kill it by throwing bodys at it which until abysea simply did not work, you needed gear and a solid strategy to stand a chance.
SE removed several forms from it and put a 2hr cap on it (so there was no recent 18hr attempt the cap was added year ago) and people where beating it in about 90-100mins after a strategy was worked out. Was similar to how Kirin and tiamat use to take 4-5hrs a spawn when it first came out, right before abysea people where killing them in 2 to 40mins. Aka the boss fights were not a horrible design decision it was stupid players for not calling it quits when they could not kill it in a few hours.
SE designed them to be unkillable unless players made/figured out a strategy to kill them, and this is what all mmo should do. maby not to that extreme but they need to have that challenge to them, this whole push to making sure all player feel successful all the time is just horrible game design both mmo and console. -
03-22-2011, 11:14 AMXatshThat AV Video is very misleading AV is about 10fold harder then PW. Excellence was not your normal linkshell it was probably in the top 5-6 best linkshells of all times on FFXI. They used I believe 7-9 Kraken clubs in those videos which SE nerfed shortly after. Aka those attacks the linkshell was using would go from hitting for 255dmg a hit every 1/7 of a sec to about 20dmg a hit in about 20-30hits. Which with that many kclub is about a sec.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkRain
By the time PW came out it was immune to soul eater, so players could never zerg that one down with Kclubs.
{for those not familiar Krakenclub it was a 40mill-60mill 1% drop rate item from a BCNM hits 2-8times once every ~2secs, with full haste it is slightly over 1 sec per 2-8hits + Soul Eater Drains 10-12% hp per hit and adds it strait to dmg per hit so 20dmg to around 240-250 + Blood Weapon All dmg you deal is drained back as HP this counters souleater's hp drain effect, it is about 15k-30kdmg in 30secs}
AV uses all 2hrs, and several of them pretty much are a guaranteed wipe and it uses them over and over unless you lock them, this includes benediction which fills its hp to 100%. On top of that it hit for around 400-600dmg a hit with 1200dmg ws attacks. Along with insane fastcast on 500-800dmg aoe spells and 1200dmg single target AM2 spells. I would say the overwhelming majority of linkshell's could not even get it below 90% before a full wipe, maby a 10-25 could get it below 70% before it goes into crazy death mode, and excellence and maby 3-4 others actually killed it. From what I heard before the level increase only 2 shells killed it without the krakenclub zerg or terrain exploits. -
03-22-2011, 11:17 AMAtlantisI think some of these should be implemented from FFXI to give this game more of a solid floor to stand on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
1) Party Based guide lines. Make it so you can only do 6 man parties and alliances make exp go down. This will give a feeling of structure and challenge.
2) Auction House this will make towns less crowded and make congestion go away a lot, since I see so many people afkin with there bazaars up. Same for the wards it's hard to render that many people selling things I think that it just needs to be gone all together till they figure something out where you don't have a bazillion npc's taking up all your pc power. Or make that into a player AFK hotspot idk I just no likey.
3) Magic stances / casting animations . . . . Please make a visual difference in castings.
4) Hopefully pet jobs will soon come. Enough Said about that.
5) Feeling of accomplishment I don't know if its just the fact the game doesn't have much content yet. But I know when you fought a god for good gear you felt a sense of reward. -
03-22-2011, 11:17 AMArghyes it is the only way to save the game. majority of lost subs were expecting a ffxi-2 with the new world, graphics, and monsters to fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
players instead got a whole new system and the game failed. common sense will tell you they will go back to what has worked in the past. this game cost 10's of millions of dollars to make. they will not gamble for a second time. -
03-22-2011, 11:32 AMSpuffinLOl yes it did. It took 2 hours to kill AFTER the gimp. When it was first released it took 18 hours of hard core gaming to fail at downing the monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
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03-22-2011, 11:39 AMAkumuMajority wasn't expecting a FFXI-2...If anybody read the interviews than you should have gained an image much larger and better than FFXI. Majority wanted AT LEAST something to do rather than what we have now. This game won't survive off of grinding mobs all day long in a "camp" just to level. The world hated FFXI after WoW so a copy/paste upgrade would not have kept that many people. Plus why would any vet want 9 more years of the same thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Argh
edit: Based off of the thread you made it was obvious I was far from alone on that matter. Failing to salvage the goods from FFXI with a completely new slate is what most vets are confused about.
The only thing I see that they enhanced from FFXI is the Armory System. From what Yoshi-P stated its safe to assume its going to be the Job/subjob system v2.0. Which will be much better. -
03-22-2011, 11:42 AMAtlantisActually most the people I know on FFXI were hoping for an FFXI-2 the others that weren't from FFXI didn't know what to expect. Final Fantasy has always been a party based game. FFXIV is straying away from this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
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03-22-2011, 11:43 AMSpuffinDUDE. For the last and final time. yes people were expecting a FF11-2 BUT not a copy/paste of the same freakin game. People were expecting it to be LIKE FF11 by adopting everything that made 11 great and turned it into something amazing/exciting/new TWISTING the very fibers of FF11's being further enhancing it's beauty and giving us a hole new awesome experience to build upon but they were incredibly misleading and it turned out to be NOTHING like 11 and NOTHING like any other MMO out there and that's why it is in it's current state... dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
And once again... to some it up... FF14 needed FF11's structure. They could have done SO MUCH MORE with FF11 and that's where FF14 was supposed to come into place but that did not happen. -
03-22-2011, 11:47 AMAtlantis
I mean lets took a look at FFXIV and FFXI similarites.
Graphics Style
Races
Music Style
Magic's
The whole feel before even picking up the game if you every played FFXI felt as if you were going to get a FFXI upgrade with a whole new world to explore. . . .Instead you got something that is way to inventive and fresh in alot of wrong ways. -
03-22-2011, 11:52 AMAkumuWe must have gotten the concept of FFXI-2 from two places with different views. I agree with what you said but when I learned about a "FFXI-2" it was a copy/paste design with a graphical upgrade. Which I am completely against.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuffin
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03-22-2011, 11:56 AMAkumuFFXIV should be party based but not as strict. Where If I want the best way to level I would get a party. However, If I don't have time I can still make some progress. Which is one thing I thought they were aiming for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
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03-22-2011, 11:59 AMAtlantisI agree. I would like to have like partying is the best option but you could still solo to progress as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
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03-22-2011, 01:41 PMCorrderio
Oh god not another one of these. To answer the question if XIV should have XI's style...
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8...eamfortres.jpg -
03-22-2011, 01:43 PMVockroth
DarkRain That was Awesome. Seeing those videos makes me ask myself why am I not playing FFXI. Come on guys look at the mechanics. I could totally read the log and all other text without expanding the video to full screen. In 4 months this game will have been released for a year. In no way this game will be where FFXI was at on opening day. I really want FFXIV to work.
PS3 is a controller based system. It will not work as the game is and will have a large disadvantage to PC users. SE will have to address not just having a game on 2 platforms but a communication application that will work on 2 platforms. PC users use Ventrilo, Team Speak or even Skype. Sony and SE should work a deal with Logitech to bring back the Netplay Controller/Keyboard and also have it set up to work on 2 platforms. I read many people saying they think the major change of new content, new areas, and new jobs will come to help boost PS3’s release. I can’t see that happening anytime soon.
As you can see by my signature I am knee deep in FFXIV. I really want it to work. I believe all of your ideas, suggestions and disappointments will be read in due time. I also believe this is the reason for this forum. -
03-22-2011, 02:06 PMKilta_Firelotus
where are ppl getting "rushed" or "listen to players" from
PC TECH ISSUE PREVENTING MOST OF THE CONTENT FROM GETTING INTO THE GAME IT WASN'T RUSHED. read up the old beta news stuff that fan sites posts. Sorry but yalls personal opinion isn't fact.
also add the fact that a good 40% of beta time was infact canceled due to these issues. And even had a letter saying we did listen to you, but the bugs must come first.
i hated ffxi combat system. I was happy the day i found out ffxiv was not gonna have auto attack. the targeting was good, drops were horrific as were nm times. I saw jegged ear jack a good 2 times in 6 years. And my main town was always sandy. AH system like ffxi was ok as long as its 1 huge multi city 1. and not sectioned off 1 for each city.
Other then that I would like a new game, not something i need hundreds of times. -
03-22-2011, 02:10 PMSpuffinThis is incredibly hard to balance. it's either make a party based game or a solo based MMO. WHy make an MMO soloable... isnt that an Off Line RPGs place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
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03-22-2011, 02:13 PMNephera
I think that people are confusing a lack of content with a deliberate design choice.
I'm pretty sure (or at least hoping) they didnt go: WELP WE DONT NEED TO PUT ANYTHING IN THE GAME FOR PLAYERS TO DO BECAUSE WE HAD THINGS TO DO IN XI. -
03-22-2011, 02:15 PMSpuffinTERAs Auction House system is amazing. 1 AH for the entire server no matter the location. You can place a bid or buy it now and there is no AH history. TERA took the better aspect out of all MMOs. They implemented the buy it now which is what everyone was doing in shout Aion. Pretty damn good idea to put that in a new game. And it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
40% on my K-TERA DOWNLOAD WOOOT! -
03-22-2011, 02:16 PMAtlantisNah for me even if there was alot to do in the game I am still bothered by all the rough edges in this game its not stable yet its very shaky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephera
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03-22-2011, 02:56 PMAmadasI think the time for cut-and-paste of FFXI, if ever, would be in alpha/closed beta and then build on it from there. Start with what works and evolve from there. Don't try to reinvent the wheel from scratch; that's what I say. FFXI with FFXIV graphics would be amazing by itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis
Going further, I'm a huge fan of the basic principals of FFXIV; if the armory system, guildleves, etc. were slowly incorporated building from rudimentary aspects of the FFXI job system and leveling, we would all be a whole lot more satisfied with the current state of the game to say the least. It's not hard to imagine: most jobs that didn't rely on TP in FFXI would macro in different weapons in for different purposes which would sometimes change up the role altogether. The only difference in FFXIV in this regard (and best part imo) is that you don't need to hit the mog house to change in FFXIV. You can adapt your role to the situation at hand by pressing a few buttons and the possibilities for customization far outmatch having only main/sub job.
I know that this would require an enormous amount of class reconfiguration and balancing and eventually would be nothing like FFXI at all but that's why I say alpha/beta should have been a cut-and-paste of FFXI, and then use the 10 years of experience and all that precious feedback from beta to transform it into a new game. -
03-22-2011, 03:29 PMSonic_the_Hedgehog
I would prefer more of a FFXII style.
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03-22-2011, 03:32 PMBetelgeuzah
FFXI's partying mechanics: Flawed.
FFXI's job mechanics: Flawed.
FFXI's combat mechanics: Flawed.
FFXI's crafting: Useless.
FFXI's AH: Good, but needs vast improvements on the usability side.
So, no. -
03-22-2011, 03:55 PMSeirra_Lanzce
i dont think FFXIV is straying away from the Party-Play, to level you need to Party either wise you're gonna end up being either not motivated to play or get far behind the game. you could without the help of other if given that your life is only to play game 24/7.
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03-22-2011, 03:57 PMgifthorse
There are like 10 million directions FFXIV could take. Falling back on their laurels and turning FFXIV into another Everquest clone (which is all FFXI was) is by no means rated high amongst them... in my opinion.
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03-22-2011, 03:59 PMgifthorseYeah, and that's not even the half of it. There are only a few things FFXI did right, and they were mostly connected to SE's commitment to story-telling and co-operative play. Both things can exist in FFXIV without it becoming another suckfest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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03-22-2011, 04:02 PMgifthorseLol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephera
this line is filler -
03-22-2011, 05:43 PMLinnear
Iliked the concept of PW, It had all the elements a good MMO needed. It had individual and group farming that benifited individuals and the collective, the tiered aspect allowed for aprogression feel to it, and the rewards were interesting. Olny problem with was the fact it was in FFXI and the control were shaky and not fluid. It was like SILITHUS farming in WoW before AQ but a lot betterf For PW SE did a great in concept but hindered by the system it was created in. PW wasnt hard or complicatd but you didn't get to him often. This made him feel hard, not be hard. I say make it as hard to spawn him put put him in a BCNM style arena and give more than one attpt at him and actually give him mechanics to learn to avoid/interupt/negate wit resistance. Now you have a system that is rewarding to everyone. If it is not machostic enough for you change the loot table depending on how many attempts it takes to kill him, 18 man alliance or w/e, and 3 drops for one with a 10 %at a great item/crafting material , and 2 wth a 5 % for 2-5 tries, then 2 items with 0%chance for godly item x. NOW you have content,a grindfest, a challenging encounter and a community builder all in 1. Best part is, it looks enough like an FFXImechanic to be liked by XI fanboys, and improves on the system enough for it to be refreshing and unique to FFXIV_ You can even make it so you Need to BR certain things on him at certain times or he wrecks you.